Do you think Rinkah is a bad unit?

[Raguna]

did not know that

fuck

Also Oboro gains Seal Defense and Seal Speed by default which I feel make her better as a debuffing unit in contrast to Rinkah's Seal Resitance since ally mages ain't what they used to be.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Raguna

[Espinosa]

Ninja is an awful idea for Rinkah. Takes away whatever strength she had as Oni Savage. The problem with raising Rinkah is that you really want Kaze early on to double things (you stop needing him after a while as doubling scrubs is easy in Hoshido), but Kaze gives no strength which Rinkah wants perhaps the most. She wants a pair-up partner for strength, so you can say the perfect Rinkah pair-up would be another Rinkah.

Dread Fighter fixes her a good deal, but other units use the scroll more effectively than Rinkah, already having some shuriken rank or with better base growths in strength (DF only gives 15% iirc in spite of the high base) and/or speed.

So Rinkah is basically the Hoshidan armoured knight without the strength of one.

[Shadow Mir]

So Rinkah is basically the Hoshidan armoured knight without the strength or HP of one.

Fix'd that for ya.

[Espinosa]

She doesn't mind the lack of HP lbh

[Shadow Mir]

She doesn't mind the lack of HP lbh

What? What do you mean?

Edited August 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Espinosa]

What? What do you mean?

You know, high defences taking care of physical damage and all that. By the time enemies start running silvers, she should have a sizeable enough defence stat to tank them even with minuscule HP (but really, HP is more of a luxury for a lot of units in this game).

[Shadow Mir]

You know, high defences taking care of physical damage and all that. By the time enemies start running silvers, she should have a sizeable enough defence stat to tank them even with minuscule HP (but really, HP is more of a luxury for a lot of units in this game).

TBH, her miniscule HP means she's only really good for tanking in the earlygame - I felt she lost value as a tank as the game went on, and lategame, she outright became the weak link on my team because she had crap for HP, and high defense doesn't make up for that imho. Edited August 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Espinosa]

TBH, her miniscule HP means she's only really good for tanking in the earlygame - I felt she lost value as a tank as the game went on, and lategame, she outright became the weak link on my team because she had crap for HP, and high defense doesn't make up for that imho.

She averages 29 def as an Oni Chieftain at 20/10, and with a def tonic and the right support partner (most def partners also provide str), a lot of enemies will be tinking her and the ones that won't will barely put a dent. If Rinkah is not physically tanky enough for you in Hoshido, then who is?

Be honest.

[Rend Keaven]

The worst axe user in Fates.

She makes a good pair up partner and gives decent modifiers to her child but that's all she's going for in my opinion.

[eclipse]

Ninja is an awful idea for Rinkah. Takes away whatever strength she had as Oni Savage. The problem with raising Rinkah is that you really want Kaze early on to double things (you stop needing him after a while as doubling scrubs is easy in Hoshido), but Kaze gives no strength which Rinkah wants perhaps the most. She wants a pair-up partner for strength, so you can say the perfect Rinkah pair-up would be another Rinkah.

Dread Fighter fixes her a good deal, but other units use the scroll more effectively than Rinkah, already having some shuriken rank or with better base growths in strength (DF only gives 15% iirc in spite of the high base) and/or speed.

So Rinkah is basically the Hoshidan armoured knight without the strength of one.

So a reclassed Hinata/Hayato? From pair-up stats, Hinata's probably the better of the two.

IMO dipping into Ninja isn't a bad thing for Rinkah. Due to her offense, the damage from Poison Strike is welcome.

---

I think she's amusing. If she's front and center, she does a pretty good job of absorbing physical hits, and I don't care about her EP damage if she's countering everything with -6 Defense and Speed (A+ Oboro). If she's a pair-up unit as an Oni Chieftain, she gives something like +5 Strength, +2 Speed, and +6 Defense to her S-support partner, which is perfect for any front-line physical unit (like Ryoma).

Edited August 20, 2016 by eclipse

[Shadow Mir]

She averages 29 def as an Oni Chieftain at 20/10, and with a def tonic and the right support partner (most def partners also provide str), a lot of enemies will be tinking her and the ones that won't will barely put a dent. If Rinkah is not physically tanky enough for you in Hoshido, then who is?

Be honest.

I already answered that earlier in the thread:

I'd rather use Hinata, Silas, Oboro, or Hinoka for tanking.

Also, unlike those four, her luck stinks, which can compromise her durability (and Oni Chieftain is no help whatsoever in that regard).

Edited August 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Espinosa]

I already answered that earlier in the thread:

I'd rather use Hinata, Silas, Oboro, or Hinoka for tanking.

Also, unlike those four, her luck stinks, which can compromise her durability (and Oni Chieftain is no help whatsoever in that regard).

Hinoka's not a tank at all. The other three are certainly better combat units than Rinkah, but are they better as tanks?

Rinkah has 5 base lck, 13.75 average as a 20/10 Oni-chan (0 base lck). You get +5 dodge from defence stance, so just how much luck do you need to stop worrying about most crits?

So a reclassed Hinata/Hayato? From pair-up stats, Hinata's probably the better of the two.

IMO dipping into Ninja isn't a bad thing for Rinkah. Due to her offense, the damage from Poison Strike is welcome.

---

I think she's amusing. If she's front and center, she does a pretty good job of absorbing physical hits, and I don't care about her EP damage if she's countering everything with -6 Defense and Speed (A+ Oboro). If she's a pair-up unit as an Oni Chieftain, she gives something like +5 Strength, +2 Speed, and +6 Defense to her S-support partner, which is perfect for any front-line physical unit (like Ryoma).

Yeah pretty much; a shame that requires a Heart Seal and a pretty suboptimal reclass (Hayato doesn't mind an Oni Chieftain though but Diviner's boost isn't too useful for Rinkah until the Bolt Axe is a thing).

I don't see how any time spent as a Ninja is of any value to Rinkah. Her offence is already bad, and going from Brass Club to Brass Shuriken doesn't help that at all to say the least. Poison Strike also doesn't help Rinkah herself get kills, which is where she's lacking most of the time.

Agreed about support unit capabilities though, she's the Hosh equivalent of Charotte basically and also made cut for being pair-up fodder for the game's prf sword prince(-ss). Charlotte can instapromote though, Rinkah needs to be babied to promotion.

[Emerson]

I've used Rinkah only once (granted, I've only had 2 chances to use her) and she turned out great. She ended up with stellar Defense and Speed. I also gave her a single Spirit Dust and she began destroying the enemy with a Bolt Axe. Overall, I think she's really good actually. Although it was just 1 playthrough, so I could've gotten lucky. Either way, I don't think she's awful.

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

Being tanky doesn't mean jack if you have shit for HP, AKA one of the key defensive stats for a tank. Her Luck is also suspect, which can compromise her durability...

Espinosa is right. She doesn't really need high HP if her defense is high enough (and that's the case, she has the biggest Def growth in BR in her starting class if I remember well), unless you let her take magical attacks. Let's take a simple example: BR's chapter 27 General deal 48 damage with a Silver Lance (46 with a Spear) while Rinkah should likely cap her Def (or nearby) at 38. So she'll take less than 10 damage considering Weapon Triangle advantage and Sakura's personal skill (I always put her behind my tanks anyway). With a HP growth around 33-35% (40 as a Savage, 30 as a Chieftain) she should reach 33 HP. So she can take more than 3 hits without dying (Maybe more, depending on her Def, Sakura's personal, etc), and if you play correctly (as I think you do), you wouldn't put her in a position where she'll take more than 3 hits (that's difficult to find unless you pair up everybody anyway). And I didn't consider avoids. She can sometimes dodge, and it's worth to reclass her as a Blacksmith for 2 levels to get Lancebreaker. Most foes dealing a lot of damage are using lances in BR (Paladins, GK, Generals, etc). Combined with Rinkah's speed and Weapon triangle advantage, Lancebreaker should drop their accuracy around 0-10%. Her high Speed prevents her from being doubled too.

You do have a point on her Luck though. 35% is not mediocre, but it's not good either. In fact, that shouldn't be a problem as long as enemies don't have Crit bonuses (natural or Killer Weapons). That's why the biggest threat IMO come from Berserkers because they have incredible damage (53 during BR chapter 27), no Weapon Triangle penalty and a natural high crit rate.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[eclipse]

Hinoka's not a tank at all. The other three are certainly better combat units than Rinkah, but are they better as tanks?

Rinkah has 5 base lck, 13.75 average as a 20/10 Oni-chan (0 base lck). You get +5 dodge from defence stance, so just how much luck do you need to stop worrying about most crits?

Yeah pretty much; a shame that requires a Heart Seal and a pretty suboptimal reclass (Hayato doesn't mind an Oni Chieftain though but Diviner's boost isn't too useful for Rinkah until the Bolt Axe is a thing).

I don't see how any time spent as a Ninja is of any value to Rinkah. Her offence is already bad, and going from Brass Club to Brass Shuriken doesn't help that at all to say the least. Poison Strike also doesn't help Rinkah herself get kills, which is where she's lacking most of the time.

Agreed about support unit capabilities though, she's the Hosh equivalent of Charotte basically and also made cut for being pair-up fodder for the game's prf sword prince(-ss). Charlotte can instapromote though, Rinkah needs to be babied to promotion.

Poison Strike gives Rinkah some semblance of PP, and shuriken/the free pebble give her a bit of EP utility in the form of massive stat drops. I feel like she's meant to debuff units, so everyone else can clean up afterwards.

[Raguna]

I see your points and I can understand where this is coming from but Rinkah needs to be babied in order to reach the potential you guys are talking about in a normal run. The other tank options (Hinata, and Tsubaki) can go from the get go and take Rinkah's place easily. Tsubaki also functions as transportation across terrain and Hinata gives out some of the best pair up bonuses which even Rinkah wants. No unit is really unviable except in Rev where Rinkah really struggles to get any real shots at staying with you

I just think it's too much effort in comparison to the other tanks, they're already way better and in a good starting position to get themselves on the move. You can try, but I think the other two tanks do their jobs way better and more expediently than Rinkah ever will unless she's amazingly blessed. She's a slightly decent unit, but most likely the worst tank due to having to leave most of the early game exp scramble to the other units who fare better in mid-game. Had she had a higher weapon rank, slightly different growths and slightly higher base stats she'd do way better.

[Emerson]

I see your points and I can understand where this is coming from but Rinkah needs to be babied in order to reach the potential you guys are talking about in a normal run. The other tank options (Hinata, and Tsubaki) can go from the get go and take Rinkah's place easily. Tsubaki also functions as transportation across terrain and Hinata gives out some of the best pair up bonuses which even Rinkah wants. No unit is really unviable except in Rev where Rinkah really struggles to get any real shots at staying with you

I just think it's too much effort in comparison to the other tanks, they're already way better and in a good starting position to get themselves on the move. You can try, but I think the other two tanks do their jobs way better and more expediently than Rinkah ever will unless she's amazingly blessed. She's a slightly decent unit, but most likely the worst tank due to having to leave most of the early game exp scramble to the other units who fare better in mid-game. Had she had a higher weapon rank, slightly different growths and slightly higher base stats she'd do way better.

>Implying Tsubaki isn't garbage without reclassing.

I do agree with your points though. In a no grinding run, she doesn't do the best. Still usable imo, but takes some effort. She's almost a reverse Est archetype.

Edited August 20, 2016 by TrueEm

[Soapbar]

The only unit worse than Subaki is Rev Odin.

and even then, he's the only way to get Ophelia sooooo

Edited August 20, 2016 by Soapbar

[Emerson]

The only unit worse than Subaki is Rev Nyx.

I fixed it for you.

[De Geso]

Rinkah is statistically crap as an Oni Savage.

Outside of Strength, Speed, and Defense her bases are decent at best. Granted, she IS a level four unit but her piss poor growths (particularly in Str and HP) ensure that her stats won't improve a whole lot from these early game bases.

Her strength growth is tied for second lowest in Birthright, tied with Yukimura and only beating out Orochi. Her HP growth is even worse, sitting at the lowest in Birthright (and I think she only beats out Gunter in Revelations, which is hardly an achievement).

While she does have solid Skill, Speed, and Defense growths, they do little to help her as a unit in her base class: her skill cap is low in Oni Savage, doubling doesn't mean anything if she can't do damage in the first place (or only hits for 3 damage), and high defense while nice won't matter if she's unable to get more than 25 hp consistently.

TL;DR, don't use Rinkah. If you must use her, if she's your favorite character ever, do yourself a favor and reclass her asap into a Berserker or Dread Fighter.

Edited August 20, 2016 by YouSquiddinMe

[Shadow Mir]

Her strength growth is tied for second lowest in Birthright, tied with Yukimura and only beating out Orochi. Her HP growth is even worse, sitting at the lowest in Birthright (and I think she only beats out Gunter in Revelations, which is hardly an achievement).

Bold: I'd speak for everyone when I say "What the hell?!" That's pretty much the antithesis of what a tank should be, as I see it.

[Emerson]

While she does have solid Skill, Speed, and Defense growths, they do little to help her as a unit in her base class: her skill cap is low in Oni Savage, doubling doesn't mean anything if she can't do damage in the first place (or only hits for 3 damage), and high defense while nice won't matter if she's unable to get more than 25 hp consistently.

Rinkah caps 38 Defense consistently and doesn't have to worry about getting doubled by anything. I don't think meh HP matters unless you're playing extremely recklessly and dumb. This point has already been stated.

And I've already stated that her damage output is increased ten-fold by fed a single Spirit Dust and being given the Bolt Axe upon promotion to Oni Chieftain.

Edited August 20, 2016 by TrueEm

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

I see your points and I can understand where this is coming from but Rinkah needs to be babied in order to reach the potential you guys are talking about in a normal run. The other tank options (Hinata, and Tsubaki) can go from the get go and take Rinkah's place easily. Tsubaki also functions as transportation across terrain and Hinata gives out some of the best pair up bonuses which even Rinkah wants. No unit is really unviable except in Rev where Rinkah really struggles to get any real shots at staying with you

I just think it's too much effort in comparison to the other tanks, they're already way better and in a good starting position to get themselves on the move. You can try, but I think the other two tanks do their jobs way better and more expediently than Rinkah ever will unless she's amazingly blessed. She's a slightly decent unit, but most likely the worst tank due to having to leave most of the early game exp scramble to the other units who fare better in mid-game. Had she had a higher weapon rank, slightly different growths and slightly higher base stats she'd do way better.

I don't understand why everybody say she has to be babied to be good. I'm doing a no-grinding run, I always mange experience and she was never behind my other guys. At the end of chapter 7 she was at the same point as my other units, and I did not neglect them (I mean, my team has a better average level than in any stream I watched at the same chapter). It's not like Mozu that starts in a Paralogue as a level 1 units whith shitty bases and awesome growths. I always used her as normal unit and she's good. Much better than Subaki with his improbable growths. He starts as a level 4-5 unit too in BR, and he's awful. His Def growth is OK, but you can't really use it as a Peg and his Speed growth is too garbage to reclass him into a tanky class, except General with WF.

[Espinosa]

The Oni classes are more than fine for growing strength. Going Zerker adds only a little more str, but offers a ton more HP and some more skill for connecting attacks (esp. Great Club ones). Zerker Rinkah is probably about as tanky as an Onichan Rinkah against most physical attackers.

Bold: I'd speak for everyone when I say "What the hell?!" That's pretty much the antithesis of what a tank should be, as I see it.

Extreme example: if everything tinks you, do you care how much HP you have? Defence is more important than HP when dealing with enemies, especially the ones without huge str stats. Who's a better tank in FE6 for example, Miledy or Garett with his huge base HP? It's obviously Miledy.

But really, don't overstate how bad Rinkah's HP (-growth) is. Holy Lancer Oboro is only a tiny bit healthier at a similar level.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Espinosa

[Emerson]

I don't understand why everybody say she has to be babied to be good. I'm doing a no-grinding run, I always mange experience and she was never behind my other guys. At the end of chapter 7 she was at the same point as my other units, and I did not neglect them (I mean, my team has a better average level than in any stream I watched at the same chapter). It's not like Mozu that starts in a Paralogue as a level 1 units whith shitty bases and awesome growths. I always used her as normal unit and she's good. Much better than Subaki with his improbable growths. He starts as a level 4-5 unit too in BR, and he's awful. His Def growth is OK, but you can't really use it as a Peg and his Speed growth is too garbage to reclass him into a tanky class, except General with WF.

Kek why can't we start talking about Tsubaki and how shitty HE is? 45% Defense is nice for a Peg, but 35% Speed is absolute garbage. And some people on this thread have been calling him good.

Hell, his base Speed growth is worse than Rinkah's base Strength growth, and his Strength is actually only 5% higher!

EDIT: I didn't mean on this thread. I meant in general. We talk so much shit about Rinkah, but Tsubaki is worse and gets less shit talked about him.

Edited August 20, 2016 by TrueEm