Fate/Grand Order General

[Emeraldfox]

18 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Don't tell him about Abigail though.

This drives me up the wall, I don't understand Abigail's and the Berserker class relationship. I feel they should deal neutral damage to each other. Isn't it all based around madness? Berserkers are already crazy.

[MrSmokestack]

14 minutes ago, Skurge said:

I'm pretty sure people are also pissed that Blackbeard didn't get to be an sr or ssr.

Maybe if Blackbeard was a girl the Okeanos Arc could have played up the rivalry between him and Drake with some very interesting undertones.

1 minute ago, Emeraldfox said:

This drives me up the wall, I don't understand Abigail's and the Berserker class relationship. I feel they should deal neutral damage to each other. Isn't it all based around madness? Berserkers are already crazy.

Shielder and Berserker are already neutral to each other.

Adding the Foreigner class is a move that clearly leans towards balancing gameplay. Buster Crit comps are a meme in JP and this addition limits that to an extent. It also benefits the player if more Foreigners are added to the game later on since you’re not forced to use Shielder in lengthier fights where the Berserker boss either can’t be oneshot or has multiple gauges.

I’m interested to see where this goes.

[MacLovin]

Just now, Emeraldfox said:

This drives me up the wall, I don't understand Abigail's and the Berserker class relationship. I feel they should deal neutral damage to each other. Isn't it all based around madness? Berserkers are already crazy.

I'm not so sure, but  i think it's got something to do with "feeding" off madness.

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

Maybe if Blackbeard was a girl the Okeanos Arc could have played up the rivalry between him and Drake with some very interesting undertones.

Shielder and Berserker are already neutral to each other.

Adding the Foreigner class is a move that clearly leans towards balancing gameplay. Buster Crit comps are a meme in JP and this addition limits that to an extent. It also benefits the player if more Foreigners are added to the game later on since you’re not forced to use Shielder in lengthier fights where the Berserker boss either can’t be oneshot or has multiple gauges.

I’m interested to see where this goes.

Fuck that shit I wanna see a 5* blackbeard with a Queen Anne's revenge that gets stronger if we have more higher star servants.

 

isn't adding the foreigner class kinda like how nintendo added the fairy type. Y'know, to fuck over op shit that hits almost everything for super effective damage.

[Time the Crestfallen]

4 hours ago, Skurge said:

isn't adding the foreigner class kinda like how nintendo added the fairy type. Y'know, to fuck over op shit that hits almost everything for super effective damage.

Dragon-type wasn't really a matter of hitting everything for super effective damage. In fact, Dragon-type attacks are only super effective against other Dragons The problems were thus;

-Dragon-types had the highest average stat total out of all the types because the vast majority of Dragon-types at the time were either legendary pokemon or fit into the 'pseudo-legendary' category

-Resistance to Water, Fire, Electric, and Grass (to a lesser extent in the latter's case) gave them a pretty good defensive typing due to resisting many top-tier attackers. This becomes especially true when secondary types are added, with many either gaining a 1/4 damage resistance against those types along with additional resistances, most prominently being Salamence and Dragonite's immunity to Ground attacks.

-To few weaknesses; aside from Ice-type attacks, which was a rather weak typing due to poor defensive stats and mostly seen on other Pokemon running Ice Beam, Dragon-type pokemon were only weak to other Dragon-types, which obviously fed into the need to run them.

-The only thing that resisted Dragon-type attacks were Steel pokemon, which made it difficult to wall them

-Fairy's are also weak to Steel and Poison, while resisting Fire. Dealing out much-needed buffs to the former and nerfing the latter, which was also a rather overpowered type.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 hours ago, Phillius the Crestfallen said:

Dragon-type wasn't really a matter of hitting everything for super effective damage. In fact, Dragon-type attacks are only super effective against other Dragons The problems were thus;

-Dragon-types had the highest average stat total out of all the types because the vast majority of Dragon-types at the time were either legendary pokemon or fit into the 'pseudo-legendary' category

-Resistance to Water, Fire, Electric, and Grass (to a lesser extent in the latter's case) gave them a pretty good defensive typing due to resisting many top-tier attackers. This becomes especially true when secondary types are added, with many either gaining a 1/4 damage resistance against those types along with additional resistances, most prominently being Salamence and Dragonite's immunity to Ground attacks.

-To few weaknesses; aside from Ice-type attacks, which was a rather weak typing due to poor defensive stats and mostly seen on other Pokemon running Ice Beam, Dragon-type pokemon were only weak to other Dragon-types, which obviously fed into the need to run them.

-The only thing that resisted Dragon-type attacks were Steel pokemon, which made it difficult to wall them

-Fairy's are also weak to Steel and Poison, while resisting Fire. Dealing out much-needed buffs to the former and nerfing the latter, which was also a rather overpowered type.

@Skurge this really. When viewed on a type ranking basis Dragon type is actually fucking trash. Its really the fact that they have draconic traits(this is by far the best traits in pokemon besides plants and that because plants get sleep powder being fundamentally broken) and liberal acess to nukes nevermind that one that is super spammable like DM

 

Nevermind gen 5 had elemental gems the most broken mechanic the series ever had up to that point. Talk to any VGC player about gen 5 and they would bring the infamous DGDM. 

 

Thats really the problem. Dgdm is broken and gen 5 had the perfect combination for Dragon type where their defensive role happen to be fantastic their. Rotom and Starmie both use a STAB resisted by Latios so Latios can switch in and start doing stuff. The biggest dragon nerf was not fairy, its DGDM being removed from the game

 

The real broken typing in pokemon is Ground Water Flying Steel and a lowkey Grass. Theres a good reason Amoongus is the only pokemon that got direct nerf in gen 6

Edited December 15, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[MacLovin]

welp that was interesting

I've never really known much about pokemon's pvp stuff. 

 

on a side note, what's the deal with robin vs euryale? I'm seeing it pop up as an argument on a FGO fb group

[Time the Crestfallen]

57 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

The real broken typing in pokemon is Ground Water Flying Steel and a lowkey Grass. Theres a good reason Amoongus is the only pokemon that got direct nerf in gen 6

I'd hesitate to include Steel and Flying; Steel's weakness to Ground is a huge fucking deal due to Earthquake being so ubiquitous and Flying gets bodied by Stealth Rocks. Personally speaking I'd say Ground is the most broken typing, followed by Fire/Water, and Grass.

6 minutes ago, Skurge said:

on a side note, what's the deal with robin vs euryale? I'm seeing it pop up as an argument on a FGO fb group

They're both top-tier offensive 3* Archers. David is also up their, but he's built defensively.

Robin for general use and Euryale against Male bosses is the general summary.

[MrSmokestack]

Supposedly Euryale is better because she can spam her NP faster than Robin because of arts steroid and NP drain on her first and third skills.

If you ask me that’s utter BS. Robin Hood has an NP gain skill already, but more important is how much his NP significantly outdamages hers, especially against anything that isn’t male. Being able to not only level his NP damage but also overcharge the damage multiplier from being poisoned swings it in his favor pretty hard.

Hood has less Atk than Euryale, who has less Atk than David. Euryale is the most niche of the three, David is best for general use, and Hood is best for bossing.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Phillius the Crestfallen said:

I'd hesitate to include Steel and Flying; Steel's weakness to Ground is a huge fucking deal due to Earthquake being so ubiquitous and Flying gets bodied by Stealth Rocks. Personally speaking I'd say Ground is the most broken typing, followed by Fire/Water, and Grass.

They're both top-tier offensive 3* Archers. David is also up their, but he's built defensively.

Robin for general use and Euryale against Male bosses is the general summary.

Steel was broken defensively if nothing else imo Ground weakness is a stupid big deal but it made up for it with everything else. Not to mention how Spikes is a "steel type move"

 

And flying is in a weird place where its probably not that broken outside offensively on its own but so many of their combo are broken and avoiding spikes is a big deal because lets be honest Spikes is actually every bit as bullshit of a move as SR

Like Ground Flying, Water Flying(when designed properly anyway), Fighting Flying, and Steel Flying are all ridiculous combo. Electric Flying is also ridiculously good

Result wise its arguably second only to Ground. How many pokemon become broken by getting their proper flying stab again? On the lower ends Gyara Sala and Dnite become BL entirely because of Supersonic Skystrike, Hawlucha jumps into OU entirely because of an item that basically allows it to use Acrobatics.

Dunno if i agree with Fire but i guess it having its own weather qualifies them there instantly. I think Ice is underrated though and Hail is actually good

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

Supposedly Euryale is better because she can spam her NP faster than Robin because of arts steroid and NP drain on her first and third skills.

If you ask me that’s utter BS. Robin Hood has an NP gain skill already, but more important is how much his NP significantly outdamages hers, especially against anything that isn’t male. Being able to not only level his NP damage but also overcharge the damage multiplier from being poisoned swings it in his favor pretty hard.

Hood has less Atk than Euryale, who has less Atk than David. Euryale is the most niche of the three, David is best for general use, and Hood is best for bossing.

The one thing i dont like about Euryale is her NP doesnt scale past np1. She basically goes from NP1 normal NP10 Male but NP10 Euryale is so absurd

Also Robin 2 big issue is he absolutely need Poison to hit and Golden Rule boosted NP gain isnt really that good

 

Like if id rank them lets say if Robin averages 4.5 and 2.0 on his downtime, Euryale NP10 is something like 6.0 with 3.0 on her NP1

[N30]

Foreigner is also neutral against everything else that isn't Alter Ego (it's weak to it) and Berserker (it's strong against it). I don't think it would stop a buster setup with Mecha Liz (who mind is a free servant), but this along with the other typical measures (multiple health bars, enough buff clearing here and there (not too fucking crazy though - not everything has to be Nerofest Exhibition)) could make Foreigner bosses provide a more relative "challenge" compared to some other bosses.

Gawain will always be a bitch to take down tbh. The fact that you're asking for a hard time if you're not bringing Eurayle or Orion along (Stheno to an extent if combo'd with either of the two I just mentioned)  just speaks volumes about the 3 encounters you have with the former in Camelot.

((The following talks about a certain boss in the third EoR chapter, Shimosa. View it at your own discretion))

Spoiler

Then there's Saber Empiero - who basically has to be nuked before he wipes your party b/c of the reduced normal card damage buff from his 1st bar and the fact that only NPs hurt him when he's on his last bar (thankfully your party gains a permanent NP gain buff when the last hp bar is there.)

All the while he has an evade that increases his attack, a attack debuff that deals a whopping  -30-50% to one servant, along with a +1 to his NP bar (translated from his playable version's NP Gain buff), and a 1 turn Arts buff that he likes to use before his NP goes off.)

Watch a vid of him, and I think you'll be able to understand just why people consider this fucker to be the second Gawain.
 

TL;DR Foreigner makes a pretty interesting addition, when also taken into the context of fighting enemy ones. Shame the power creep won't be stopped that easily...

[MrSmokestack]

8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

The one thing i dont like about Euryale is her NP doesnt scale past np1. She basically goes from NP1 normal NP10 Male but NP10 Euryale is so absurd

Also Robin 2 big issue is he absolutely need Poison to hit and Golden Rule boosted NP gain isnt really that good

Like if id rank them lets say if Robin averages 4.5 and 2.0 on his downtime, Euryale NP10 is something like 6.0 with 3.0 on her NP1

E Rank Golden Rule isn’t great but it’s not like Hood builds up NP that much slower or something, since it’s very likely they’re being run on an Arts team anyway.

Hood can make anybody weak to his NP because of how it works while Euryale is extremely good vs males but immediately becomes average when fighting anything else. And when the enemy is neither poisoned nor male Hood is still doing more damage because he can level his NP damage unlike her. Outside of Camelot this situaton is pretty frequent since there are more female servants than male ones.

I just don’t understand how a general usage ranking list would rank the unit with a very clearly defined niche over the one that is more applicable to other scenarios.

What is Hood’s debuff success rate on Sabotage by default, and how much debuff resist does the enemy need to make it unreliable?

[QKumber]

Hood default poison rate is 100%, meaning he should not miss unless enemy has some kind of resistance.

The main issue with him is his cards are actually bad. Robin's quick or even arts have low hitcounts and his dmg outside np is lackluster being generous.

 

Euryale has a better deck fornarts IIRC with 3 arts unlike robins 2. Her charm and np drain are actually usefull for some stalling specially vs males but not only. The thing is males are not the majority of servants but many males are sabers and berserkers - which are optimal targets for Euryale and her kit.

Personally, I value more Eury np gauge control then robins small golden rule bonus. But both are usable in the long run

[MacLovin]

It seems like all the 3* archers are really good. I've read some good things about Tristan, but Tawara Touta seems to get shafted because of his mediocrity (as others put it)

 

I just want a reworked Hector.

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, QKumber said:

The main issue with him is his cards are actually bad. Robin's quick or even arts have low hitcounts and his dmg outside np is lackluster being generous.

Euryale has a better deck for arts IIRC with 3 arts unlike robins 2. Her charm and np drain are actually usefull for some stalling specially vs males but not only. The thing is males are not the majority of servants but many males are sabers and berserkers - which are optimal targets for Euryale and her kit.

They have the exact same deck, QQAAB with Arts NP, very similar generation stats, and the exact same hitcounts on those cards, though Euryale has slightly higher crit weight.

Fair point on most males being weak to her class though. I would still use both but I’ve never rolled Euryale.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

36 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

They have the exact same deck, QQAAB with Arts NP, very similar generation stats, and the exact same hitcounts on those cards, though Euryale has slightly higher crit weight.

Fair point on most males being weak to her class though. I would still use both but I’ve never rolled Euryale.

HOW

Is that before you blow the load on Christmas FP

 

Or did you save for Hoz-bro or something

[MrSmokestack]

I spend FP every now and then but I’ve never rolled Fergus, Diarmuid, or Euryale. Caster Gilles is no surprise because he’s story summon only.

I don’t want to spend all of my FP now since Angra Mainyu is a bonus for the Fate/Zero event.

How much FP do you have?

[QKumber]

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

They have the exact same deck, QQAAB with Arts NP, very similar generation stats, and the exact same hitcounts on those cards, though Euryale has slightly higher crit weight.

Fair point on most males being weak to her class though. I would still use both but I’ve never rolled Euryale.

Wasn`t sure about Euryale deck, thx for correcting me!

And kinda sad never rolling so many 3star units... they do come in hand more often then not.

About FP points, I am sitting at 1,3 million right now... might roll for some MPs if I ever get around, but will try to wait at least until Saber wars... the Angra Man guy I find pretty meh but would like for Pokedex purposes =p

But most of my 3* do come from regular Gacha...are you perhaps one of those ppl saving for Jalter? Never rolling on quartz can do that to the roster sometimes

edit: myself I have a lvl70 Robin but only a lvl40 Euryale just thought I should say it

Edited December 15, 2017 by QKumber

[MacLovin]

I read on an fb fgo that an avenger is recommended for Camelot because of Lancelot.  Should I save Sq to try to get Jalter, or just go with the free avenger dantes we get sometime in spring?

 

I'm gonna blow my current pile of fp to try to get paracelsus because I've got a bunch of arts team servants. 

 

Does Vlad have long term use as an arts berserker? I've got him at third ascension and lvl 70. Might max him out. Waiting for his interlude to get that skill upgrade.

 

I'm looking at what I have right now and it seems that my servants lean towards an arts based team with possible crit support.  I'm thinking of getting Mozart raised up since he's got some uses on an arts team. Tamamo is just waiting for lanterns. Hans wants levels. STG is at third ascension.

For arts based damage, I got vlad, Robin, euryale, and medea. Anything else I need to keep in mind with arts teams? I don't have a lot of variety in my CEs 

[MrSmokestack]

35 minutes ago, QKumber said:

About FP points, I am sitting at 1,3 million right now... might roll for some MPs if I ever get around, but will try to wait at least until Saber wars... the Angra Man guy I find pretty meh but would like for Pokedex purposes =p

I have 600k FP. Angra Mainyu is pretty crappy in general but he gives good drops for the event he comes out in so I’d roll for that if nothing else.

Quote

are you perhaps one of those ppl saving for Jalter?

I have 400 sq...

Quote

edit: myself I have a lvl70 Robin but only a lvl40 Euryale just thought I should say it

I rest my case

@Skurge There is no freebie avenger. You only need 3 sq or a ticket saved with your luck

Quote

Does Vlad have long term use as an arts berserker?

Vlad is the best Arts DPS in the game with proper support.

Quote

For arts based damage, I got vlad, Robin, euryale, and medea. Anything else I need to keep in mind with arts teams? I don't have a lot of variety in my CEs 

Just use Tamamo + DPS + Waver support and you’ll be fine.

Edited December 15, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[QKumber]

4 minutes ago, Skurge said:

I read on an fb fgo that an avenger is recommended for Camelot because of Lancelot.  Should I save Sq to try to get Jalter, or just go with the free avenger dantes we get sometime in spring?

I'm gonna blow my current pile of fp to try to get paracelsus because I've got a bunch of arts team servants. 

Does Vlad have long term use as an arts berserker? I've got him at third ascension and lvl 70. Might max him out. Waiting for his interlude to get that skill upgrade.

I'm looking at what I have right now and it seems that my servants lean towards an arts based team with possible crit support.  I'm thinking of getting Mozart raised up since he's got some uses on an arts team. Tamamo is just waiting for lanterns. Hans wants levels. STG is at third ascension.

For arts based damage, I got vlad, Robin, euryale, and medea. Anything else I need to keep in mind with arts teams? I don't have a lot of variety in my CEs 

Free Avenger? I am pretty sure Dantes ain`t a freebie... and Avenger by itself is a weird class... uber low star weight and weapon triangle vs rulers. If you want, JAlter is considered among the top tier dmg dealers in the game, just see if you like her or not.

 

Vlad is among the strongest DMG dealers on a classic arts comp - the good old tamamo + vlad + a 3rd support works wonders! I don`t think any other berserker can fit this role.

 

Hans with lvls helps, but what he needs is SKILL UPS! Makes a world of dif on his case specially.

 

You might wanna try to pick some dif classes arts users! Nero can be a good saber, assassin shiki and you are probably well covered!

[QKumber]

3 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I have 600k FP. Angra Mainyu is pretty crappy in general but he gives good drops for the event he comes out in so I’d roll for that if nothing else.

I have 400 sq...

I rest my case

FP bait I can see that working.

400SQ means you saving for quite some time - if those are free SQ then that explains why you missing quite a few 3*s

and TBF I should have said, I still use my Euryale more then Robin (yesterday on Okeanos Hercules fight for exemple), Robin only got maxed first because I needed him for christmas.

Both are good, both should receive love. The 3* archers are ALL strong, Robin Euryale AND David (for me he is THE strongest)

[MacLovin]

Just now, QKumber said:

Free Avenger? I am pretty sure Dantes ain`t a freebie... and Avenger by itself is a weird class... uber low star weight and weapon triangle vs rulers. If you want, JAlter is considered among the top tier dmg dealers in the game, just see if you like her or not.

 

Vlad is among the strongest DMG dealers on a classic arts comp - the good old tamamo + vlad + a 3rd support works wonders! I don`t think any other berserker can fit this role.

 

Hans with lvls helps, but what he needs is SKILL UPS! Makes a world of dif on his case specially.

 

You might wanna try to pick some dif classes arts users! Nero can be a good saber, assassin shiki and you are probably well covered!

I was thinking of running d'Eon for tanking hits, hans as a back row pick, and robin/david/ushi for damage/utility until I get more arts DPS  from other classes. 

 

Also yeah Dantes isn't a freebie. Whoops. Guess I'll save for Jalter.

 

waiting for sunday to get d'eon/caesar ascended. I'll be running them in saber wars with jack/nobu/salter taking the 3rd slot as needed. fergus and gilles will be in the back with saber lilly

Edited December 15, 2017 by Skurge

[MrSmokestack]

My team going into London is d’Eon / Tamamo / Hood, with Saber Alter and Cu in the back with story support, and for Saber Wars I have d’Eon / Saber Alter / Caesar in front and Saber Lily / Gilles / Support Okita in the back.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

6 hours ago, Skurge said:

I read on an fb fgo that an avenger is recommended for Camelot because of Lancelot.  Should I save Sq to try to get Jalter, or just go with the free avenger dantes we get sometime in spring?

 

Does Vlad have long term use as an arts berserker? I've got him at third ascension and lvl 70. Might max him out. Waiting for his interlude to get that skill upgrade.

 

Lancelot isn't exactly "hard" so you don't really need a dedicated counter iirc

 

Vlad is ranked 8.0 on the tier list, which to put some context in it 7.5 is the cut off for being considered broken

[QKumber]

This is my plan for saberwars. The CEs are only placeholders for me to calculate partycosts.

Probably gonna ditch BROCK for some dedicated class counter if the need arises, maybe adding an Archer to farm Scathach node most likely Nobu =D

Edited December 16, 2017 by QKumber
Hope to farm some saber pieces/monuments to further ascend Siegfried