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Michelaar

Least favourite character(s)?

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2 minutes ago, Lau said:

Right okay, I'm trying to be polite, but just lay off? You might not like Faye but I do? Surely that's all that matters, right?

If you log onto a forum, enter a public thread about least popular characters in a video game and say that you like the most controversial cast member, then I don't know why you're getting upset when people ask you to clarify your position or explain your thoughts. 

You're free to think whatever you want, but don't get upset when people don't understand when you have this attitude and don't explain why you think the way you do, like how you ignored my question about how Faye was not manipulative. If that bothers you, then maybe this thread is not for you.

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4 minutes ago, Thane said:

If you log onto a forum, enter a public thread about least popular characters in a video game and say that you like the most controversial cast member, then I don't know why you're getting upset when people ask you to clarify your position or explain your thoughts. 

You're free to think whatever you want, but don't get upset when people don't understand when you have this attitude and don't explain why you think the way you do, like how you ignored my question about how Faye was not manipulative. If that bothers you, then maybe this thread is not for you.

Well, I was doing what the thread asked, So there's no problem there. It's just the way you came across, it was if you thought me liking Faye was a ridiculous notion. I did clarify why I liked her in my last post, just so you know. So let's just drop it, alright? Because opinions are opinions, and everyone has a right to them, yes? I don't want to derail this thread anymore.

You say I ignored your question? Alright.

I don't find it manipulative because she genuinely doesn't have any malicious intentions. She also bears no ill will to Celica, and you'd think she would considering Alm obviously loves her. She says that "those are the friends you should keep close" she's obviously talking about herself, but honestly, it comes across as her talking to herself, not directly to Alm.

Look, I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway, but it annoys me that no matter where I go, people will always frown on me for liking Faye, despite saying why many, many times.

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There are some characters I didn't enjoy, but only two that really bothered me.

I'll join in on the Faye dislike. It's funny how little effort Intsys can put into a character and still have people defending her, just as long as she has an attractive (cute in Faye's case) design and an obsession with a male main character. And there are ways they could have done her character without being this terrible. It's not too unusual for girls her age to have unhealthy crushes and hinge their self-worth to getting with a certain guy. But instead it's just played as a "quirk" and her ending is basically the game both laughing at her desperation and throwing a knowing wink at the player. It's honestly rather insulting.

The other would be Berkut, everyone's favourite "bad boy" trope. His voice actor is great, but also felt a tad overacted at times. The devs' building up Berkut to be this awesome, extremely theratening villain clashed terribly with their agenda of making Alm completely invincible and infallible. He gets literally nothing done. The small bit of sympathy he got from me for being left in the dust by Rudolf was ironically crushed by the one thing meant to humanize him. Outside of the memory prism, he and Rinea have zero chemistry, and he devotes much of their screentime to yelling at her or making plans that run directly counter to her wishes (not that he ever actually asks for her opinion). Also, no kind mental breakdown excuses murdering your girlfriend. The fact that he got rewarded by seeing Rinea again (who had a 180 and is now totes down on the whole ruling an empire thing) and have it all played of as romantic really ticked me off. It's the Twilight definition of a romance.

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1 minute ago, Lau said:

It's just the way you came across

That's fair, but you also came across as "I like Faye. I don't need to explain why, so back off."

2 minutes ago, Lau said:

I don't find it manipulative because she genuinely doesn't have any malicious intentions.

She's preying on her supposed friend after a big fight with his best friend to get what she wants. That's manipulation. She downright pleads him to be with her.

2 minutes ago, Lau said:

She also bears no ill will to Celica

Why does this matter? Do you think everyone who helps someone cheat on their partner, for example, bears an ill will towards their lover's wife/husband?

5 minutes ago, Lau said:

She says that "those are the friends you should keep close" she's obviously talking about herself, but honestly, it comes across as her talking to herself, not directly to Alm.

So she just happens to explain what a perfect fit she is for him while he's standing there? After she has greeted him? She just...stops talking to him and starts talking to herself instead?

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2 minutes ago, Thane said:

That's fair, but you also came across as "I like Faye. I don't need to explain why, so back off."

She's preying on her supposed friend after a big fight with his best friend to get what she wants. That's manipulation. She downright pleads him to be with her.

Why does this matter? Do you think everyone who helps someone cheat on their partner, for example, bears an ill will towards their lover's wife/husband?

So she just happens to explain what a perfect fit she is for him while he's standing there? After she has greeted him? She just...stops talking to him and starts talking to herself instead?

I'm sorry I came across that way, I'm not the best at debate, but let's give it a go :)

Alright, I'll agree that it was wrong of her to do that straight after a fight, it's just the term 'manipulation' is a tad too extreme. I might like her, but I won't deny that she's terribly written. Why IS?!

I think it matters because it all seems like a love triangle, if you don't count Clair. Love triangles, from what I've seen normally have two people fighting each other over someone, so it's nice to see that she genuinely likes Celica, and it's one of her very few redeeming factors.

This, I attribute to her "creepy" tendencies, and I've seen it done quite often in video games and other media. I like to see it as she just trails off and goes into her own little monologue.

 

Honestly, idk why I like Faye. I suppose it's the cute design and the lure of the lost potential she had. I wish she has supports with the other Ram kids and Celica. I'll be the first to admit that her obsessing over Alm is awful, but I am really fond of their A support.

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Story-wise, I dislike Mycen, Rudolf, Fernand and Berkut for the plot forgiving them for their immoral actions. The first two are basically the Azura of this game and the latter two are jerks with no redeaming features. I will comment that Berkut's villainous breakdown in Duma Tower was a good scene, but then they ruined it by Alm caring about him and Rinea forgiving him.

Personality-wise, I'm not fond of Delthea and Faye. The former is an arrogant brat, a trope I've never liked and the latter just has a bad, one note personality. My experience playing the Japanese version makes her come across as unaware of how exactly her behavior is problematic, but she's nonetheless still a manipulative jerk.

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1 minute ago, Lau said:

I'm sorry I came across that way, I'm not the best at debate, but let's give it a go :)

Sounds good to me!

1 minute ago, Lau said:

I think it matters because it all seems like a love triangle, if you don't count Clair. Love triangles, from what I've seen normally have two people fighting each other over someone, so it's nice to see that she genuinely likes Celica, and it's one of her very few redeeming factors.

But there is no triangle. Alm likes Celica, Celica likes Alm, and Faye worships the ground Alm walks on. Not only would the latter be a horrible, horrible basis for any real relationship, but Faye is actively working against her friends' interests for her own selfish gain at the most opportunte time available to her. That's manipulation. It's not an extreme interpretation of it, but rather the term fits the situation perfectly.

3 minutes ago, Lau said:

This, I attribute to her "creepy" tendencies, and I've seen it done quite often in video games and other media. I like to see it as she just trails off and goes into her own little monologue.

Sure, but nothing indicates that's what she's doing here. She tells Alm what he should do, to his face, in terms of his love life, hiding it under a very thin disguise. 

4 minutes ago, Lau said:

Honestly, idk why I like Faye. I suppose it's the cute design and the lure of the lost potential she had. I wish she has supports with the other Ram kids and Celica. I'll be the first to admit that her obsessing over Alm is awful, but I am really fond of their A support.

And that's all well and good. I don't share your opinion in the slightest, but rather consider Faye to be a very good example of many things wrong with Intelligent Systems' writing, but if you like her, more power to you. I mostly objected to you saying she was not manipulative there.

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1 minute ago, Thane said:

Sounds good to me!

But there is no triangle. Alm likes Celica, Celica likes Alm, and Faye worships the ground Alm walks on. Not only would the latter be a horrible, horrible basis for any real relationship, but Faye is actively working against her friends' interests for her own selfish gain at the most opportunte time available to her. That's manipulation. It's not an extreme interpretation of it, but rather the term fits the situation perfectly.

Sure, but nothing indicates that's what she's doing here. She tells Alm what he should do, to his face, in terms of his love life, hiding it under a very thin disguise. 

And that's all well and good. I don't share your opinion in the slightest, but rather consider Faye to be a very good example of many things wrong with Intelligent Systems' writing, but if you like her, more power to you. I mostly objected to you saying she was not manipulative there.

Then there's nothing I can say, you've proven me wrong with the manipulation. I still don't see it as that, but I can't argue it. :)

Shall we just say that it's Faye being Faye? Still, it's a nicer way to interpret it, even I'm a bit iffy on this one, hahah!

Thanks, but I honestly wouldn't expect you to, we all have different opinions, right? I was being too impulsive and defensive, I really don't do debate because I'm afraid I'm going to make myself look like an idiot, which I probably already did, but you're right. I need to explain my opinions. Again, I'm really sorry! :)

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My immediate impressions on Delthea and Conrad were pretty negative, but I grew to like them more as I played. Delthea' supports were more interesting than I had expected (at least the one with Luthier was, I barely remember the one with Clair), and Conrad because his supports were cute and his personality was likable, though I still dislike his role in the story. However, I'm really not a fan of Saber. I think they were trying to parallel Lukas and Clive's role in Alm's route, like how Boey and Mae seem to parallel Tobin and Gray, but it feels much more forced to me, and neither his personality nor his relevance feel strong enough to justify his importance. Also Alm, like others have said; he's a decent guy, but he's too decent for any growth to happen, and both his and Celica's arcs suffer for it. In fact, Celica's arc and overall character seems to suffer in general, especially around Act 4 and beyond.

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19 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Apart from the usual list of disliked characters, I actually don't like Mathilda that much. The one support that she has with Clive isn't very good.

 

I had forgotten about that, but I agree. After playing Gaiden, I thought Mathilda would be the easiest character to update and make interesting, but they wasted that potential and made her seem almost as bland as she was in the original game. The DLC maps might help to make her more interesting, but I haven't played it myself, and I really don't think DLC should be the only place for a character to be interesting anyway.

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Berkut- Because I found him to be a whiny prima-donna throughout the whole game and just non-threatening what so ever (I would put down the whole thing with Alm & Rinea forgiving him but that's on Alm & Rinea to me not Berkut). I'm also not a fan of his voice acting; I found screaming fits (the reason I call him a whiny prima-donna) unintentionally funny and I had a hard time believing he's the same age (17) as Alm (I remember Lukas mentioning this). Him and John Travolta in 1977.

Rinea- Calling her an accessory is an insult to accessories. The right accessories succeed in making someone look good. She makes Berkut look worse.

Spoiler

She pisses me off in Act 5 because of how easily she forgives Berkut for basically murdering her. 

Clive- Every time the game talks about how he's top shit; I had to laugh because of how much a failure he is.

Luthier- He just pisses me off.

 

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I began thinking about this, and I realized that I mostly dislike the characters in the game where the English voice acting just kind of feels off.

For example, I really dislike Luthier, not because of his personality or whatever, but out of all the voice actors in the game, his one just sounds kind of like he doesn't really know what's going on.

I'd also have to go with Faye, not only because of her personality, but her English VO doesn't really sound expressive as well.

Still, I think even those two characters have amazing voice acting when compared to other games in general. I feel like the cast of Echoes has done one of the most amazing English voice acting performances in video game history.

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Delthea for being an annoying spoilt brat—especially towards Luthier, the poor guy who genuinely wants good for her—and Alm for being a perfect embodiment of perfection and ruining the themes that were trying to run through the game.

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Faye: Everything that needs to be said already has, moving on.

Berkut: There are elements of an interesting foil to Alm in him, but the potential is squandered, and he just ends up looking like a petty, selfish child.

Fernand: Could have been an interesting foil to Clive, but again, it was wasted, making him look like someone who is just using his grief as an excuse to act on his bigotry.

Rinea: Complete waste of space, does nothing for the plot or Berkut's character.

Edited by AzureSen

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Sonia, mainly because she stands inbetween me and one of my favorite characters Deen.

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Clive: He is a wuss who wastes time blabbling about contradictory nonsense and is also a hypocrite. Also a disgrace to cavaliers as units.

Mycen&Rudolph: Evil psycopaths who ruined everyone's lives to fulfill the stupidest plan ever written.

Mathilda: Somehow she has even less of a personality than Faye. Unlike Faye, she is not comic relief material.

Rinea: I believe she was only made to capitalize on the fire memes that are no longer popular. 

I used to dislike Faye and Berkut but they are so poorly made they are great comic relief for my sick sense of humor.

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Rudolf single-handedly ruins what chance the game had to have a good plot, so he heads the list.

Berkut/Rinea are frustrating for reasons already mentioned. Berkut had some potential but it's totally not done well because the game first fails to make him a credible threat, then fails to acknowledge how far he has fallen (after rather artifically making him fall). Rinea is an accessory.

Mycen does little besides appear, spout cryptic bullshit, and support Rudolf's insane plot.

None of the (non-Mycen) PCs bother me as much relatively. Kamui does little besides talk about money and be afraid of necrodragons, so he's a one-note character who isn't even funny, so he's probably my least favourite.

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Faye: Basically going to echo what everyone else here was saying about her.

Fernand: From the base story alone, he was an unsympathetic jerk. His reason for leaving the Deliverance and then betraying Zofia due to Alm's "common birth" origins was just bonkers, and throughout the story, he was nothing but an asshole who puts others, especially Alm, down at every opportunity. I felt zero remorse for Fernand when he died; he does very little to make him redeemable in my eyes. I will admit the DLC gave Fernand a better portrayal there then what the main story did, but even then, I still cannot bring myself to like him.

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Usually I would say Faye, but Celica usurped or my character hate (even though she has most beautiful character design in whole game). She came off as incredibly stupid across whole game ignoring advice of people concerned about her and then ending surprised every single time Jedah lies to her and still comply to him. Suddenly even crazy yandere looks like good match...

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Characters I thought sucked:

Faye: Useful unit and decent VA, but shallow obsession and characterization.

Clive: Subpar unit and not all that interesting, Grant George is charismatic on the plus side.

Delthea: Annoying brat, even if she is a powerful glass cannon and well played by Christine Marie Cabanos. Also has an annoying loli voice in Japanese. 

Mycen: Boring plotdevice that everyone seems to like just like Azura.

Est: Irresponsible twerp who never gets her crap together, also needs grinding to get good. Brianna Knickerbocker does nice job

Deen: Boring Edgelord not worthy to save over Sonya, even if he's a Merc.

Nomah: Generic pervy old man/mentor stereotype with subpar stats for a Sage, only good for a Recovery bot.

Fernand: A straight up jerk not worth the sympathy

Berkut: Entertaining villain with great voicework by Ian Sinclair, but his relationship with Rinea is not well explored and endgame story reasons

Rinea: Just there to get sacrificed.

Rudolf: See Mycen, Jamieson Price did great as usual.

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Re: Faye, I'll just add that, at least with Camilla and Tharja I can see what they were going for with their personalities, but I have no clue what the intent is with Faye. I can't feel sorry for her, I can't be amused by her, I can't find other ways of looking at her beyond her being a creepy stalker. If she wasn't such a good cleric, I would bench her.

Mae: I just generally don't like this type of upbeat, preppy character. Her voice acting isn't bad but I feel it doesn't fit in this game. 

Tobin: I don't dislike him, I just find him boring, starting with his design. I wish his whole "big brother" thing had been more prevalent in his personality instead of his inferiority complex and nervousness, as it's the most endearing part of him.

Clive: again, he's boring to me, and a meh unit. Such a stark contrast to his bride and sister, both of whom I love.

Nomah: he comes so late and is so bad that I know nothing about him beyond his introduction and recruitment (which is admittedly funny).

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There are two characters that I dislike.

1.) Delthea- she's a spoiled brat and I don't like bratty characters. She get's to stay on the bench.

2) Leon- I find his obsession with Valibar creepy, furthermore if you choose to leave him behind he says something along the lines of "You won't be pretty forever." Alright Leon that does it you are NOT on the team.

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