Zapp Branniglenn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, Armagon said: To be fair, Celica's dream happened in Gaiden. I don't remember any mention of a dream in Gaiden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said: I don't remember any mention of a dream in Gaiden. This is the entire script of Gaiden Ch.5 Quote Man: If you go down these stairs you should be able to get to Doma’s altar. But it’s said that once you’ve entered, you can never return again. Your Highness, please take care! Temple of Doma * (Random event after Alm can no longer return to the world map) [?] Cellica’s party is currently fighting. [Character name] received # damage. In case of death: [Character name] fell!! [The two highest leveled (?) members aside from Cellica receive damage.] * (Beyond the iron bars)Alm: ! Cellica — ~ Cellica runs over from the midst of a battle ~ Cellica: Ah! Alm, help us… At this rate everyone will… Everyone will die! H-hurry… Please… come quickly. * (Stone tablet on the fifth underground level) TREASURY Excepting royal family members of Rigel, entrance is prohibited! Doma’s Altar * (Opening)Alm: Are you all right, Cellica?! Cellica: Alm… Alm: Ah, it’ll be okay now. I’ll crush these bastards for you. Cellica: It won’t work. Judah possesses some mysterious power that’s obstructing all our attacks. Besides, countless Bigles keep coming to entangle us. We can’t even move anymore. We’re probably already done for… Sorry, Alm. I wasn’t able to do anything for you after all.I’ve had a strange premonition… A feeling that something terrible will happen to you… That’s why I came this far on a quest to rescue Mila… That’s why, until then, I didn’t want you to fight. Because of that… I acted so cold. I’m sorry… The truth is, I’ve always… Alm: That’s enough. I understand. At any rate — Cellica! Right now, what matters is escaping!!! I’m definitely going to save you! I’ll definitely save you, so believe in me. Go for it, Cellica!! * (Upon Judah’s defeat)Judah: You fools who know not Lord Doma’s power… You will regret this… ~ All Bigles vanish ~ * (Upon Mara’s defeat)Mara: May the blessings of Doma — [Her sister Heste falls without saying anything.] * (Upon Doma’s defeat)Doma: That should be enough… Hero Alm. I entrust everything to you. Inherit the will of us siblings and govern this land… Carrying both the strength of Doma as well as the love of Mila, guide the people justly… You must not repeat the same mistakes we committed. You must never again disturb our slumber… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoimanZX Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I am actually fine with the Cain and Abel archetype as they are something of an homage to the Mario Brothers. I guess the problem is that they became too samey and repetitive over the years due to them all being cavaliers until Fates changed it up a bit by making them ninja (I wonder if I am the only one who sees a similarity between Kagerou & Kotarou and Peach & Bowser). I remember suggesting the idea of having the duo be fighters who resemble the Mario Brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 09/28/2017 at 6:26 AM, Glennstavos said: The second dream is more harmless. The only part of the dream that comes true is that Alm would eventually fight Rudolf. But the parts about Alm's friends all having been killed and him losing to Rudolf are a fabrication. I also like how Celica has no control over the events of the dream, since that's how people tend to have nightmares. There's still no reason for Celica to have such a vivid dream, however. I find this dream to be even worse than other examples because the game treats it as a premonition but no part of it (besides Alm fighting Rudolf) comes true or is averted based on Celica's actions. Alm doesn't die, his friends don't die and Rudolf never gets Duma enchanced. What is treated as a serious motivation for Celica turns out to be a meaningless dream that worries her for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 On 2017-09-27 at 5:26 PM, Glennstavos said: Since Chancellor Desaix knew who Alm was, I imagine it wasn't a well kept secret anyway, but nothing in the game concretely proves Celica knew or didn't know. So it's hard to judge. That was something that bugged me in retrospect. I understand Desaix knowing Mycen never had children, and I can understand Mycen having been originally from Rigel and being close personal friends with Emperor Rudolf before leaving for reasons unknown (it was probably how Desaix managed to frame Mycen for killing the Kings kids, even though Mycen was actually trying to prevent it). But how does he go from, 'This kid can't be Mycen's Grandkid; Mycen had no kids' to, 'This kid is Rudolf's son.' How? It was supposed to be such a closely guarded secret that Rudolf didn't tell Berkut: his nephew and (false because of Alm) heir apparent, out of fear of the Duma Faithful finding out. Furthermore; how did the Duma Faithful find out? We never see anyone tell Jedah or the other Duma Faithful that Mycen's supposed grandson bears the brand. They might not have originally known about Alm being Rudolf's son, considering Jedah, for all his love of taunting and torturing the heroes, passes up a golden opportunity to taunt Alm about killing his own father. And yet, the Duma Faithful are well-aware of Alm having the brand. How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaxis1 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I wanna point something out about the Evil Dragon thing. For Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem, as well as remakes, Medeus was NEVER the true evil mastermind. It was Gharnef that was. Gharnef revived Medeus in both games, took Falchion, and was always planning for something behind the scenes. He also manipulated Hardin and Michalis. Not sure how we can avoid the perfect protag troupe when we've got characters like Corrin, Ephraim, etc. However, many of those protagonists have their own ideals, and their journey ultimately have their ideals challenged. Eliwood had his ideals challenged when his father and later Ninian died. Marth had his ideals challenged when his friend Hardin betrayed him, or when his family was killed, save for his sister. Or Chrom tried to uphold Emmeryn's ideals but had to have guys like Validar and Gangrel, even Walhart to en extent. Even Eirika, who's very kind and trusting had her ideals challenged when her close friend Leon ended up being taken over by the Demon King. My feelings on what the most overused troupe would be the dragons being the final boss and the evil wizard. Almost every final boss has been an evil dragon, or the majority of them. Medeus, Loptyr, Grima, Fire Dragon, Iduun, Duma, and Anankos, and even Dragon Garon. And every game always has this evil wizard as a major antagonist, and generally are the masterminds. Nergal, Validar, Gharnef, Manfroy, Jedah, Lyon, etc. Stop having evil wizards be the mastermind. Let some battle crazed weapon holder that can trounce the main protag and others in a straight fight. This is why I feel Ashnard was pretty interesting, being an enemy that didn't rely on magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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