Antihero Anonydraft Mafia (Game Over)

[Marisa Kirisame]

I suppose you two could never understand my genius level intellect. I never said low posting isn't scummy; nonentities can be scummy when they're not contributing. I think it's a bit of an overreaction on day 1 to be going after the person who's posted once, that's all; Faye is someone to look after if they don't return, but I don't find anything wrong in her one post, which is why I think it's ridiculous people want to crucify her for it. I personally find low posting active lurking to be more scummy than actual inactives (this is me giving Faye the benefit of the doubt, because she has not returned since her last post); it's people like coughEndeavorcough, Beast, Omar, etc.-- think low posting nonentities who you know are around, but haven't been actively scumhunting that I worry more about.

[Marisa Kirisame]

4 minutes ago, Kokichi Ouma said:

I asked you if one of Ozaki and Kratos the giraffe were mafia, which one would it be?

I also asked you why this question is relevant. Why can't both be mafia? Why can't both be town? etc.

[Cú Chulainn]

And I’m not answering until Lapis does. Don’t worry, I’ll make it worth the wait!

[Sham]

This is probably just a miscommunication error then with regards to what is considering low posting, plus a disagreement on how scummy Faye's post was. Beyond that it's down to I would lynch someone who had only a couple posts a day phase that looked good over someone actively contributing like Kokichi, just because cases like the former can be faked and people have a tendency to sort of let them slide.

[Refakitty³]

@Nagito Komaeda I'll answer this just once but I honestly don't see why I need to defend here.

 

If some posters think that my Kratos vote is opportunistic, then I need to ask, where is the supposed scum intent here? If this is to save myself, then I need to ask, what am I saving myself from? A possible lynch? My vote was not even 24 hours into the phase, why would I assume that I'm a surefire lynch target? I don't have time to respond to Kratos' post but I will when I get back.

 

@Rick I think with Beast and Omar, its not that I haven't mentioned them but I have faith that they will post more in the game to get a better read of. With Beast, I didn't like his vote on me, but I'm scared that it may be a lynchbait player.

[Sham]

Just now, Mello said:

@Nagito Komaeda I'll answer this just once but I honestly don't see why I need to defend here.

 

If some posters think that my Kratos vote is opportunistic, then I need to ask, where is the supposed scum intent here? If this is to save myself, then I need to ask, what am I saving myself from? A possible lynch? My vote was not even 24 hours into the phase, why would I assume that I'm a surefire lynch target? I don't have time to respond to Kratos' post but I will when I get back.

 

@Rick I think with Beast and Omar, its not that I haven't mentioned them but I have faith that they will post more in the game to get a better read of. With Beast, I didn't like his vote on me, but I'm scared that it may be a lynchbait player.

Posts like this drive me crazy because the defense is horrible but the response to Rick is good. I'm leaning not wanting to lynch this slot.

[Refakitty³]

Final response, since I forgot about this:

@The Batter I did have issues with Kratos initially but felt that your vote was pretty hipster and felt like it was scum trying to look proactive in a way that makes no sense, so I voted you oer Kratos, that's all. It would make no sense for me to go into how Kratos is scummy when I find the person voting Kratos scummy, that's counterintuitive. 

[Refakitty³]

yeah, toodles, losers!

[Rain Nijika]

okay okay okay okay okay I'm back. @Kokichi Ouma your tone @ me is frustrating me and I kind of wish you'd cool it. When people act that way towards me it makes me really anxious and not in a game way.

I thought you were telling me that you'd asked me if I thought you were scum, because I already answered your question in this post and I thought you would have seen it. at the time I really didn't know! I just had the feeling this might not be town infighting but I didn't know how to express myself so yes I probably came off in the first place like I was waffling super hard and as Batter put it I realize that's a scummy thing to do but I don't think Ozaki is scum right now anymore. I have a cooler head now and if one of Ozaki/Kratos were scum I'd go with Kratos but I can't explain why right now other than I think his content is better. Let me answer these questions first and I'll get back to that. 

[Rain Nijika]

2 hours ago, Titania Andersen said:

How is that post scummy? This isn't a defense of Mello at all, but I want to understand your thought process better

Voting someone for reasons other than you think they are scum is scummy. I mentioned this here in regards to how I felt about Batter's vote on Ouma in RVS. Voting people for "being inactive," "being unhelpful," etc. is pretending to be protown while putting little effort into actually building cases on people you think are scum and that's scummy.

[Rain Nijika]

Hey one hour later I think instead of trying to produce content when I know I can't I think I'm going to just unplug for the night. I swear tomorrow I'll actually put out real content that isn't just me answering people or poking at posts. If you have any more questions for me just ping me and I'll answer them tomorrow. I know I haven't addressed everything but I can't concentrate and I need a little more time.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

alright, dropping the formalities, it's too much effort. in other news, praise iso's

@Beast: please actually clarify your reasons, we aren't mind readers. i won't repeat myself again. at this juncture, this is active lurking at its finest. 

not a huge fan of endeavor's last post; it's just a bunch of answers and no real content. it's been 15 hours, what's the deal? lump this into a similar situation to beast, but at least it's only his first promise to contribute. still in the active lurking camp

the temptation to meta lapis is really high, but i'll avoid it. i consider lynching flakers is not something i consider hugely productive.
@Lapis Lazuli i can't quite establish what your reads are past your votesit on faye. mello, and what else? who would you vote if not faye? 

2 hours ago, Lapis Lazuli said:

Voting someone for reasons other than you think they are scum is scummy. I mentioned this here in regards to how I felt about Batter's vote on Ouma in RVS. Voting people for "being inactive," "being unhelpful," etc. is pretending to be protown while putting little effort into actually building cases on people you think are scum and that's scummy.

i find this post curious due to said votesit on faye. very curious indeed.

@Toshio Ozaki: glad you asked about my other opinions (way back when probably), cause i have them in this very post!

7 hours ago, Toshio Ozaki said:

##Vote: Endeavor

^^^More interested in defending themselves than scumhunting I think. It's really a stretch to say that The Batter was calling for a legitimite turbo at the start of D1.

Dr. Crawler and Faye are good lynch targets too. I have a feeling I know who Dr. Crawler is though so less happy with lynching him.

intriguing that i keep seeing this sentiment around lurkers/active lurkers. and yet i'm lynchable for a similar opinion? just defending yourself basically puts you in the active lurker camp.

mello stuff in spoiler:

Spoiler

13 hours ago, Mello said:

Crowler is a good vote at this juncture because the Beast vote isn't pushing the game in any direction and that's taking the lazy stance here, clear scum intent over here.

5 hours ago, Mello said:

I feel like if Faye isn't posting a lot this phase wen lynch her anyway just because having inactives with bad posts in the game isn't good anyway. Even if it is just that one posts it doesn't make her town.

may i ask then, what's the difference between a full lurker and an active lurker? not to mention the second quote basically reads as "fluffy fluff that fluffily fluffs" in a strange attempt to contribute.

4 hours ago, Mello said:

If some posters think that my Kratos vote is opportunistic, then I need to ask, where is the supposed scum intent here? If this is to save myself, then I need to ask, what am I saving myself from? A possible lynch? My vote was not even 24 hours into the phase, why would I assume that I'm a surefire lynch target? I don't have time to respond to Kratos' post but I will when I get back.

i love this defense, because it's so easy to pick apart. it's really quite simple, you cite toshio's case (which i don't agree with, while we're at it), and he's your obvious counterwagon at the time. iso's are good at giving me the votals too, so i referenced them to the gamestate when you voted kratos. 

5 hours ago, Mello said:

We lynch inactive, scummy players before active players because dealing with inactives later in the game is a PITA. Also scum!me has no reason to post that when he can just let the town call out Faye, go after her lynch(there is still strength behind it) and not say anything about her. This isn't the first time I've talked about Faye, so its nothing new.

also just wanna point out that people can fluff posts to seem active. case example is beast, as previously established. i care more about people who pretend they're going to contribute constantly then someone who makes one promise but hasn't even been back in the thread since. the former is active lurking, the latter is flaking. we don't lynch flakers on principle, as far as i know. the host will do something about them if it gets egregious
so really, this also seems like a bit of a fluffy fluff post that really doesn't help.

i'd lynch here tbqh

most of the other players i currently don't have many/any issues with that i haven't already mentioned. @ me if you need answers to questions

##Unvote
##Vote: Mello

 

 

[Rain Nijika]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Crowler said:

i find this post curious due to said votesit on faye. very curious indeed.

I think Faye is scum also I was explaining my thought process what the fuck does that have to do with my current vote are you just looking for a reason to find me scummy without committing to it.

[Rain Nijika]

proceeds to turn notifications off

[C. C.]

Hmm I do think kratos follow up case is significantly better but guttering Titania as town, feels like she is trying to do somethung whereas I feel like scum would just keep saying they have no reads while doing nothing. I still feel like my initial points still stand but kratos has gone down quite a lot in terms of summoned because his case on Titania felt genuine. Feel like he could have just switched to mello or something easier if he was scum.

 

Im somewhat revaluating my beast suspicion. I'm realizing that maybe outside of his initial kratos vote which to me feels really forced, can't actually see any scum intent in their later posts. So they are down a little

I still don't get the crawler votes for the most part. I do think crawler voting beast despite not expecting a good response is a good point against him but a lot of people seem to be saying that he hasn't provided thoughts on anyone else when I'm like 99% sure they have. I do sheep kokichi and batters point but still disagree with a lot of the case so somewhat scum.

I decided to reread Rick and toshio because the endeavor votes felt odd to me, think it was because it seemed sudden move. Rereading Rick, something I noticed that he said that the Faye wagon didn't sit right with him but I don't think he ever actually commented on the players voting for Faye. He does with the mello wagon as well. However despite his comments on the mello wagon he proceeds to vote for toshio because they were tunneling but then drops the read after they simply just say "its their play style". He never brings up people on the mello wagon (unless I missed something).  It seems like his read on toshio didn't toocommitted but his comments about the mello wagon indicate to me that he thought someone was scummy so confused why he'd chose toshio. Although after looking at his endeavor vote it seems okay I guess. I'm having trouble finding actual scum intent but some of ricks actions feel off.

In regards to toshio, didn't really find anything but one thing that does strike out to me is that they sheep the crawler cases which criticize crawler for making just a pressure vote at this stage but then basically do the same thing to endeavor. Seems like it's just trying to open up an option.

Mellos defense is null to me, 

I still believe that Faye is the most scum even with that one post tbh so going to keep the vote. If I were to choose someone else I would choose beast cuz I still think his initial vote seemed blatant scummy.

PEDIT: okay so I thought I posted this like an  hour ago but guess I didn't, the above content is after lapis lazuli saying they were taking a break after trying for an hour for content.

 

 

[C. C.]

Wait mello who do you think is scum? Just realized you never really commented on kratos new content but still have your vote on him. @Mello

[BBM]

Votals 1.4

Dr. Crowler (4): Titania Andersen, Kokichi Ouma, The Batter
Mello (3): Nagito Komaeda, Beast, Dr. Crowler
Endeavor (3): Faye Valentine, Toshio Ozaki, Rick
Faye Valentine (2): Lapis Lazuli, Omar Little
The Batter (1): Endeavor
Titania Andersen (1): Mercenary Kratos
Mercenary Kratos (1): Mello

Not Voting: Nobody

Around 38 hours left in the phase. 8 votes to hammer.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

i'm not committing to it since I don't think the rest of your content is really that bad, lapis. it's just a strange scenario that i wanted to note. i won't take this any further since i don't think you're scum at the moment. as you were

[Marisa Kirisame]

@Kokichi Ouma Okay, he's answered. Let's hear it now, I don't really get the relevancy of this question.

@Titania Andersen Hypothetically, what do you think would be the better lynch: Faye orEndeavor, and why? You talk about saying you'd rather lynch someone who doesn't produce any content vs. someone who does, so what's the best case here [yes, I know your vote is o n Crowler, ty BBM for votals, but because Crowler has definitely contributed more than the two, I just want your thoughts on how scummy you think these two potential counterwagons are].

@Omar Little I can't tell if you used ISOs or  not, but the problem with ISOs is that you lose a lot of context of my posts esp. wrt Toshio. At the time, my vote on Toshio was to apply pressure on him. I feel that the change felt fluid enough. Toshio put it best when he asked me: "Rick, am I still the scummiest person in the thread?" (paraphrase); Toshio satisfactorily answered me and I moved on to better pursuits subsequently. With regards to Faye/Mello, I actually misremembered things about that (ha, I actually had to reread what actually made the thread b/c I swear I thought I addressed things in the Mello wagon, but it turns out other stuff happened);  at the time, I had written out more thoughts on each wagon but it had gotten deleted by SF Editor and I gave up and called it a night (I can quote that exact post for you if you really insist), but you have a fair point that my thoughts over them to not come off as fluid.

Also, you talked about the Endeavor wagon seeming weird and sudden to you but you never talked about Endeavor himself. It seems you wouldn't be interested in lynching him based of  your post (i.e. the lack of mentioning him), why's that? To me, active lurking + promising that you are reading and will provide content is far scummier than being inactive.

I think I'm hitting the hay tonight. We'll meet again tomorrow unless I can't sleep or something.

[Sham]

I'd rather lynch Endeavor than Faye. Faye is possibly just busy and falls into "if they don't do anything else BBM will just sub them" so it's not my favorite lynch--in another game they would basically only be there as my third choice in the case that it was later in the day and Endeavor+Crowler claimed something that I wouldn't lynch, but that's... probably not a factor here? But I've seen Endeavor lurking the thread once or twice today without posting and the way he promised content then disappears gives off a much scummier vibe to me. His actual posts are lower quality than Faye's as well

4 hours ago, Lapis Lazuli said:

Voting someone for reasons other than you think they are scum is scummy. I mentioned this here in regards to how I felt about Batter's vote on Ouma in RVS. Voting people for "being inactive," "being unhelpful," etc. is pretending to be protown while putting little effort into actually building cases on people you think are scum and that's scummy.

This is a bit of a misrepresentation, the key part of Mello's post that you quoted was not just that they were inactive, but that they also had bad posts. Low posts + bad posts = good chance of scum who can't produce content or someone who is gonna be subbed by the end of the day

What bothers me most about your play is you say town put effort into building cases on people they think are scum, but... I don't really see any of that from you other than pointing out that a couple people aren't doing that, but I feel like you're just as guilty as that if not moreso. I'm sort of giving you a pass since you came into the thread fairly late and you seem pretty distraught from stuff that's happening out of game and I know that that can heavily influence ability to play well or at all, and because of the latter I don't really wanna pressure your slot a lot more because I'm a bleeding heart

@Dr. Crowler What are your thoughts on: Batter, Kratos, Omar?

[Sham]

Specifically for Kratos, you say he's fine, but does this mean that nothing he's said has stood as particularly townie or scummy to you? He's been a fairly polarizing figure, so I'd like something a bit more indepth than a one line comment

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

10 minutes ago, Titania Andersen said:

Specifically for Kratos, you say he's fine, but does this mean that nothing he's said has stood as particularly townie or scummy to you? He's been a fairly polarizing figure, so I'd like something a bit more indepth than a one line comment

i've looked over their content a number of times and i just don't see the problems. they're still pushing cases while answering questions. initially they had a bit of a tunnel on you in casing to the exclusion of others, but that's eased up now, as far as i can read. would not lynch here at the moment.

re batter: they're blunt, and while i don't agree with pushing a vote on me given what i was trying to do, it'd also make sense as a pressure vote itself. would like to see what they think now that i've managed something else, fwiw.

re omar: a quick skim doesn't find anything particularly objectionable in terms of actual casing. i'm not sold on keeping the faye vote due to my previous statements (flakers get subbed or worse), but look, it's not like faye is clear. consider this an extension to an opinion on lapis re their vote, now that i'm thinking a bit clearer. 
still kinda want the active lurkers to actually do something but what can you do when you need to start considering a proper vote to lynch

hope this helps

[BBM]

Faye is having some irl issues but has said they won't need a sub.

[Estelle]

10 hours ago, Mello said:

We lynch inactive, scummy players before active players because dealing with inactives later in the game is a PITA. Also scum!me has no reason to post that when he can just let the town call out Faye, go after her lynch(there is still strength behind it) and not say anything about her. This isn't the first time I've talked about Faye, so its nothing new.

Inactive scummy players just get PoE'd down later on in my experience, so I don't consider them that much of a pain. That doesn't mean I'm against voting people who don't contribute though.

8 hours ago, Lapis Lazuli said:

I thought you were telling me that you'd asked me if I thought you were scum, because I already answered your question in this post and I thought you would have seen it. at the time I really didn't know! I just had the feeling this might not be town infighting but I didn't know how to express myself so yes I probably came off in the first place like I was waffling super hard and as Batter put it I realize that's a scummy thing to do but I don't think Ozaki is scum right now anymore. I have a cooler head now and if one of Ozaki/Kratos were scum I'd go with Kratos but I can't explain why right now other than I think his content is better. Let me answer these questions first and I'll get back to that. 

Kratos is more likely scum because he has better content?

The context of your post make me think you mean Ozaki has better content, but clarification would be nice.

4 hours ago, Lapis Lazuli said:

I think Faye is scum also I was explaining my thought process what the fuck does that have to do with my current vote are you just looking for a reason to find me scummy without committing to it.

<shrank down text for reading purposes>. I don't see how pointing out that you're saying voting inactives is bad while voting the most inactive player is that weird?

Beast: I really don't like how this slot is giving no reasons for voting whatsoever (other then "It's a gutfeel, don't take it too seriously"). The vote switch also bothers me, because it was after the Kratos wagon was dying down and right after he was being questioned about why he was still voting there. Furthermore, not even sharing which reasons he's agreeing with when he votes (but just writing them off as gutvibes or agreeing with unnamed other people) and commenting about how voting inactive people is bad gives me the idea he's trying to avoid having to give opinions instead of just having trouble forming them.

##Unvote
##Vote: Beast

@Beast: Since you mention you have opinions about other people, can you please share them, even it's just a repeat of what other people already said? I feel sheeping cases is still better then not giving reasons at all tbh.

[Cú Chulainn]

9 hours ago, Lapis Lazuli said:

okay okay okay okay okay I'm back. @Kokichi Ouma your tone @ me is frustrating me and I kind of wish you'd cool it. When people act that way towards me it makes me really anxious and not in a game way.

I thought you were telling me that you'd asked me if I thought you were scum, because I already answered your question in this post and I thought you would have seen it. at the time I really didn't know! I just had the feeling this might not be town infighting but I didn't know how to express myself so yes I probably came off in the first place like I was waffling super hard and as Batter put it I realize that's a scummy thing to do but I don't think Ozaki is scum right now anymore. I have a cooler head now and if one of Ozaki/Kratos were scum I'd go with Kratos but I can't explain why right now other than I think his content is better. Let me answer these questions first and I'll get back to that. 

My tone is entirely RP. If it annoys you I can understand but just know that it's not malicious, it's just suuuuper fun to post like this all the time! But if it makes you uncomfortable I'll try and cut it down a little while addressing you.

I saw that post before but I didn't see you taking a strong stance. Batter seemed to have a good point on you and while I was nullreading you I wanted to force you to make a choice and get some accountability for your actions. This post with more in line with what I wanted, so thanks!

As for my read on your slot, well... it was null when I first asked the question, and then when I said your response was weird I thought it was odd because it looked like you were trying to appease me. I guess you can be in my zoo if you want (you kinda look like some weird sea creature) but if you misread my post I guess it makes more sense. My read in you now is still pretty blank though, pending how you go forward.

I'll post more shortly. I have totally evil supreme leader business to attend to!