Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
mangasdeouf

Why are armored units considered weak outside of their movement penalty

Recommended Posts

I bet I can tell it in 1 sentence: they're supposed to be slow but to have the highest defence in the game but their def growth sucks balls and their base is ridiculous outside of FE10, also they have down the earth speed so they get doubled by any non-armored unit, they have weaknesses to certain weapons because IS thought they were too hard to ORKO with a slim lance/sword so you needed special weapons to OS the tankiest classes in the game who can't even catch up with a foot soldier and have barely more def than cavalier classes, they have inexistant-level resistance and in Fates especially there are the most annoying weapons ever created: shurikens, the weapon transforming your 18 def into 13 def with no speed that takes double 10-ish damage per attack after armor reduction (against weak weapons because against silver weapons and A rank they take more like 20-ish damage two times).

The only skill saving their asses is available at level 5 general, a class nobody wants to use as the front unit because it has the same shitty penalties as any armored unit with less movement than GKs and no offensive skill, and when your general reaches 20/5 it's like endgame already unless you're trolling the game playing the slowest turtle ever seen. Especially in Fates with the exp curve going up drastically for each level higher than your ennemy over 3 levels. At least they could give armored units a faster exp gain (paragon would help them so much).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... I guess you pointed out the main flaws with armor units, lol. To me the biggest problem was definitely low movement and crappy Spd, but then again that issue is somewhat fixed with the Wary Fighter skill. In Fates they were really good for pair up bonuses and Effie passed down good modifiers to her child, so there was that. I did end up making Effie a Great Knight because I had no patience for the low movement. If you don't mind buying skills from other castles, you could get the Mov+1 skill and then give them a pair of boots to increase to help them move more. I don't really know a way of helping their low Res stats other than with pair ups, but if you wanted to give a big middle finger to mages you could always put the Counter Magic skill on them so that mages would at least still hurt themselves, in addition to hurting your armor units. It could help you wipe out more mages so that they can avoid causing more damage to your units, given that they were able to survive a magic blow. There is also the skill Aegis which you could either buy or learn from the Paladin class that could help halve tome damage, but since it triggers based on the Lck of the unit they would likely have a hard time triggering it, although it could still help save them. I do agree that it would have been nice to have a skill like Paragon, because trying to train them up is like pulling teeth. If they did have a skill like that, I'm sure more people would rely on them. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ashlyn said:

Well... I guess you pointed out the main flaws with armor units, lol. To me the biggest problem was definitely low movement and crappy Spd, but then again that issue is somewhat fixed with the Wary Fighter skill. In Fates they were really good for pair up bonuses and Effie passed down good modifiers to her child, so there was that. I did end up making Effie a Great Knight because I had no patience for the low movement. If you don't mind buying skills from other castles, you could get the Mov+1 skill and then give them a pair of boots to increase to help them move more. I don't really know a way of helping their low Res stats other than with pair ups, but if you wanted to give a big middle finger to mages you could always put the Counter Magic skill on them so that mages would at least still hurt themselves, in addition to hurting your armor units. It could help you wipe out more mages so that they can avoid causing more damage to your units, given that they were able to survive a magic blow. There is also the skill Aegis which you could either buy or learn from the Paladin class that could help halve tome damage, but since it triggers based on the Lck of the unit they would likely have a hard time triggering it, although it could still help save them. I do agree that it would have been nice to have a skill like Paragon, because trying to train them up is like pulling teeth. If they did have a skill like that, I'm sure more people would rely on them. 

 

I'd rather make them equally tanky physically and magically so they are THE TANKS of the game, or their class is just plain useless if they barely tank half of the game's damage and get the worst penalties of all units in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

I'd rather make them equally tanky physically and magically so they are THE TANKS of the game, or their class is just plain useless if they barely tank half of the game's damage and get the worst penalties of all units in the game.

Good point. Out of Effie, Benny, and Ignatius, Effie has the lowest Res, unless you make Ignatius have a mother that brings down his Res stat. They are not so bad with dealing with mages, if you can keep them away from a lot at one time, and it's good that they have so much HP, which helps somewhat. They should still be pretty good tanks, even when you factor their Res in.

EDIT: You could also consider running Aether on an armored unit so that they can deal extra damage while healing themselves. From what I remember, the armored units all had decent Skl, so it should trigger fairly often because it uses the Skl stat x 0.5 for its trigger rate. It will make them more of a tank by helping them survive longer and potentially reducing the amount of times they need to be healed by someone else, which can help you heal more units and save you some staff/rod uses. You may also want to consider using Benny and Ignatius as your Generals, because they tend to be more of a tank than Effie. Ignatius's Def and Res may fluctuate depending on who his mother is, but he still performs the role well and is arguably better than Benny. Effie works nicely as a Great Knight and can help knock out more enemies in other areas quickly, since she will be mounted, while you focus your other armored units in another area, if you choose to use them all together.

Edited by ashlyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

I'd rather make them equally tanky physically and magically so they are THE TANKS of the game, or their class is just plain useless if they barely tank half of the game's damage and get the worst penalties of all units in the game.

That... would only make them annoying to see on the enemy side. And Wary Fighter is already plenty to make them a pain in the butt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their main issues outside of their horrible movement is typically their speed and resistance.

Which in most FE games, around the half way point there typically is alot more magic based enemies. Which they get demolished by because they are constantly getting double attacked by magic nukes.

Fates has taken some measures to make them more useful, with skills like wary fighter and giving them good pair up support stats. But overall they just become a massive burden around the half way point in pretty much every game. Early game they can still be servicable due to lower amounts of magic damage being thrown around. But overall they just lose all viability once magic becomes more common (Usually around the half way point of most games)

If I were to make changes to the class as a whole, I would slightly raise their ressistance bases and growths. But keep them slightly below average. Keeping it as a weakness, but not to the point of them being killed in one shot by mages. Also give them solid luck stats so their chances of procing aegis and pavise more frequent. As well as giving them more skills that can potentially shrug off magic hits. Knights should be the go-to tank units of the series. But they kinda fall flat on the idea since they tend to only do well against physical hits.

I'm fine with them having low movement IF the game gives you other options to bring them around. Like pairing them up with a flier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For all it's flaws armor has a pretty solid niche here in fates.

Armor is typically bad in fates (sans move) because there are classes with negligable bulk loss that...

-Are not weak to hammer/AS.

-have actual 1-2 range

-kill the shit out of everything.

-Speed/Res/luck tend to be non-issues here, the class has some solid skills, and it is undisputably the bulkiest thing in the game in every way when maxed out. So enemies just refuse to attack them.

-----------------------------

Armor was super useful in FE12's higher difficulties.

------------------------------------

Robe!Magik!Elise reclassed into general Via Effie makes a pretty sick general bolt axe. JS.

Edited by joshcja

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FE8's generals. Just FE8's generals. I began a general only playthrough yesterday with Gilliam and got Amelia to general. I thought FE8's skills activated with skill/luck depending on the skill type. I was damn wrong. FE8's skills activate like crazy because of this: great shield had attacking unit's level % chance to activate (I mean the guy attacking the general). During chapter 13-A my Gilliam blocked all 5 bolt attacks from Selena. ALL 5 BOLT ATTACKS! Assassin's lethality has crit/2 % chance of activating. Give Colm A support with Neimi, cap his skill and make him an assassin with killer edge and S swords and he will have 15+15+5+30=65% crit rate and 32% chance of lethality (I prefer the French translation silence, it sounds better, you're silencing the ennemies, putting them in eternal sleep). Wyvern Knight's pierce has user's level % chance to activate. Max 40% just by reaching max level. No stats required. Assassin/Rogue's DISARM: fuckin' disarms any stupid trap like shitty lava. Screw annoying map design we have rogues! (like DnD rogues). Sniper's sure strike: level%. Summon gives exp. Bishops tripple any weapon's damage against monsters automatically.

That is a great set of skills and good activation chances (and good things deciding the rates because having the rates be dependent of skill luck means any unit not having max of this stat will barely activate it at all in each chapter counting the total of fights where you can make it activate per chapter). Lethality was actually usable unlike 3DS versions, and also skill, speed and luck were actually useful (4 speed points difference instead of 5 to double/get doubled, 2 acc per skill point, 1 crit per 2 skill points, 1 avoid/crit evade per luck point, 2 avoid per speed point, your non promoted units had actual chances to avoid, unlike 3DS games which force you to fuckgrind 10k levels to get passable avoid outside of pure avoid units who have free access to avoid skills, which...are mostly oriented on PP in Fates, such major shitty design making dodging really unreliable on EP, and if your units can't EP, they're useless most of the time and make you loose turns).

In the line of skills, thieves' and rogues' steal skill was good, even better in RD and I'd like FE to make the skill come back in the next FE game, because if thieves don't steal, then why would you use them? Just give us keys in shops and take back your shit stats thieves (Gaius, ORKOed by physical units Kaze, ORKOed by anything Kagero, untrained Anna) so we can play the game without having to waste a deployment slot. At least Colm had faster exp gain and well-balanced growths allowing him to go into both classlines and capping his most important stats, in a game where he could actually dodge not to get instakilled and in a game with real HP growth on non-mage male units.

Edited by mangasdeouf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

FE8's generals. Just FE8's generals. I began a general only playthrough yesterday with Gilliam and got Amelia to general. I thought FE8's skills activated with skill/luck depending on the skill type. I was damn wrong. FE8's skills activate like crazy because of this: great shield had attacking unit's level % chance to activate (I mean the guy attacking the general). During chapter 13-A my Gilliam blocked all 5 bolt attacks from Selena. ALL 5 BOLT ATTACKS! Assassin's lethality has crit/2 % chance of activating. Give Colm A support with Neimi, cap his skill and make him an assassin with killer edge and S swords and he will have 15+15+5+30=65% crit rate and 32% chance of lethality (I prefer the French translation silence, it sounds better, you're silencing the ennemies, putting them in eternal sleep). Wyvern Knight's pierce has user's level % chance to activate. Max 40% just by reaching max level. No stats required. Assassin/Rogue's DISARM: fuckin' disarms any stupid trap like shitty lava. Screw annoying map design we have rogues! (like DnD rogues). Sniper's sure strike: level%. Summon gives exp. Bishops tripple any weapon's damage against monsters automatically.

That is a great set of skills and good activation chances (and good things deciding the rates because having the rates be dependent of skill luck means any unit not having max of this stat will barely activate it at all in each chapter counting the total of fights where you can make it activate per chapter). Lethality was actually usable unlike 3DS versions, and also skill, speed and luck were actually useful (4 speed points difference instead of 5 to double/get doubled, 2 acc per skill point, 1 crit per 2 skill points, 1 avoid/crit evade per luck point, 2 avoid per speed point, your non promoted units had actual chances to avoid, unlike 3DS games which force you to fuckgrind 10k levels to get passable avoid outside of pure avoid units who have free access to avoid skills, which...are mostly oriented on PP in Fates, such major shitty design making dodging really unreliable on EP, and if your units can't EP, they're useless most of the time and make you loose turns).

In the line of skills, thieves' and rogues' steal skill was good, even better in RD and I'd like FE to make the skill come back in the next FE game, because if thieves don't steal, then why would you use them? Just give us keys in shops and take back your shit stats thieves (Gaius, ORKOed by physical units Kaze, ORKOed by anything Kagero, untrained Anna) so we can play the game without having to waste a deployment slot. At least Colm had faster exp gain and well-balanced growths allowing him to go into both classlines and capping his most important stats, in a game where he could actually dodge not to get instakilled and in a game with real HP growth on non-mage male units.

Um... I dunno about you, but Sacred Stones was hardly armors' finest hour. General Amelia in particular falls solidly into N.W.I. territory (no amount of stat advantage can make me think two tiers of 4 move lance lock is worth going through). Great Shield isn't that reliable, nor is it very helpful (except when you're on the ass end of it, that is). Silencer is hardly worthwhile in Sacred Stones, given that critical hits will likely send an enemy to the grave anyhow (it's Sacred Stones, aka the easiest game in the franchise, after all).  Sure Strike is worthless - a surefire hit on a class that very seldom has any real chance of missing??? No thanks. Pierce was glitched. Disarming traps would mean something if traps were common, which they aren't.

I fail to see that as anywhere near "a good set of skills and good activation chances". On the contrary, skills in Sacred Stones were more of an unceremonious afterthought. I mean, Sure Strike??? Really??? That is not even close to enough to justify promoting Neimi to Sniper. Also, enemies in Sacred Stones were weak for the most part (you know something ain't right when the promoted enemies manage to be WEAKER than the unprompted ones, which themselves exemplify the term "cannon fodder").

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing in normal difficulty for my 2 units run to full recruit and use exploits post-game to get full movement for every unit I want to use, I can tell you general is no joke. Th simple fact my 10 res Gilliam didn't take any damage from Selena in the entire chapter 13, counting the 2 turns it took me to kill her with iron axe level 3 Amelia (who had spd capped at 10/20 knight BTW with 15 to 17 in everything else except res, and in that chapter she reached 12 res +2 with talisman because she has 10 less HP for now than Gilliam so she needs the res more than him with 21 def and 66 avoid but 48 hp at level 5 against 57 hp 27 def gilliam level 13). So he blocked 7 attacks/7. Great shield is monstrously superior to pavgis because it does all pavise+ and aegis + in one with a better activation rate when you actually need it (like against level 18 Lyon and his very high magic damage and accuracy).

In hard difficulty full recruit is impossible for Gilliam as the only armed unit in your team, even if you use a full team. But compared with other games, both the class and the class skill are far superior to their counterparts in Awakening and LOLFates that makes you run all the time to get this or that before you can't anymore because it's gone with the asshole that stole it under your eyes. In Awakening, career knights are bad. Magic is everywhere and the class reduces only physical damage with an utter shitty physical damage reduction skill when you already reduce most damage to 0 anyway but nothing against magic and nothing against speed. In Fates your def is perma-debuffed in defence chapters where it matters the most because their are tens of ninjas (well, 10 ninjas per groups of 2-3) and if you chase them you open the chokepoints to the ennemies and it's lost.

Edited by mangasdeouf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

Playing in normal difficulty for my 2 units run to full recruit and use exploits post-game to get full movement for every unit I want to use, I can tell you general is no joke. Th simple fact my 10 res Gilliam didn't take any damage from Selena in the entire chapter 13, counting the 2 turns it took me to kill her with iron axe level 3 Amelia (who had spd capped at 10/20 knight BTW with 15 to 17 in everything else except res, and in that chapter she reached 12 res +2 with talisman because she has 10 less HP for now than Gilliam so she needs the res more than him with 21 def and 66 avoid but 48 hp at level 5 against 57 hp 27 def gilliam level 13). So he blocked 7 attacks/7. Great shield is monstrously superior to pavgis because it does all pavise+ and aegis + in one with a better activation rate when you actually need it (like against level 18 Lyon and his very high magic damage and accuracy).

In hard difficulty full recruit is impossible for Gilliam as the only armed unit in your team, even if you use a full team. But compared with other games, both the class and the class skill are far superior to their counterparts in Awakening and LOLFates that makes you run all the time to get this or that before you can't anymore because it's gone with the asshole that stole it under your eyes. In Awakening, career knights are bad. Magic is everywhere and the class reduces only physical damage with an utter shitty physical damage reduction skill when you already reduce most damage to 0 anyway but nothing against magic and nothing against speed. In Fates your def is perma-debuffed in defence chapters where it matters the most because their are tens of ninjas (well, 10 ninjas per groups of 2-3) and if you chase them you open the chokepoints to the ennemies and it's lost.

That isn't exactly a feat worth bragging about because it's Sacred Stones we're talking about. Sacred Stones isn't exactly hard. So I don't have any reason to believe General is no joke. And I have even less reason to think it's worth it to have Amelia abandon a horse in favor of heavy armor when heavy armor is more of a hindrance than a help. There is only one defense map in SS, after all. Also, I have no reason to see Great Shield as all that useful when Gilliam is probably taking no damage from anything physical anyhow, and Amelia is better off on a horse. You must have different standards for "reliable" as I do, too - a 17% chance of nulling Lyon's attack is nowhere near good enough to be called "reliable" by my standards.

I very seriously doubt that knights as a class are better off in Sacred Stones than in the other games you mentioned for reasons mentioned above. Especially in Fates, where high defense is actually useful. FYI, debuffs are only temporary, and the most you'll see outside of skills is -4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

a 17% chance of nulling Lyon's attack is nowhere near good enough to be called "reliable" by my standards

37% actually, but hey, it's unreliable uh? And if my Gilliam could block 7 consecutive hits from Selena (or even 5 hit and dodge 2) then it's reliable enough for you to take it into account. And Amelia has also access to crit +15 so why the fuck would I make her my 5th paladin? Outside of looks, Amelia paladin doesn't bring anything exceptional to the table and she's the worst paladin because availability+base level/stats make her a pain to train. Want a mobile Amelia? Get her to recruit #3 and make her a more accurate and faster berserker with more def and res than Ross and Dozla. Want an all-in Amelia you can throw in the melee to tank everything and dodge 40% of it? make her a general, you can't have more than 2 generals during the scenario, only after (and daddy is worse than Gilliam in every aspect).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

37% actually, but hey, it's unreliable uh? And if my Gilliam could block 7 consecutive hits from Selena (or even 5 hit and dodge 2) then it's reliable enough for you to take it into account. And Amelia has also access to crit +15 so why the fuck would I make her my 5th paladin? Outside of looks, Amelia paladin doesn't bring anything exceptional to the table and she's the worst paladin because availability+base level/stats make her a pain to train. Want a mobile Amelia? Get her to recruit #3 and make her a more accurate and faster berserker with more def and res than Ross and Dozla. Want an all-in Amelia you can throw in the melee to tank everything and dodge 40% of it? make her a general, you can't have more than 2 generals during the scenario, only after (and daddy is worse than Gilliam in every aspect).

Where are you getting 37% from? Because I don't think promoted classes count as +20% for the purposes of Great Shield. Also, I see Super Recruit as a gimmick. No con growth at all? *retch* Pass. General Amelia? Too much work for too little reward. Pass. I much prefer Cavalier - Paladin because it makes her easier to work with when she can fight more enemies at an advantage.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Where are you getting 37% from? Because I don't think promoted classes count as +20% for the purposes of Great Shield. Also, I see Super Recruit as a gimmick. No con growth at all? *retch* Pass. General Amelia? Too much work for too little reward. Pass. I much prefer Cavalier - Paladin because it makes her easier to work with when she can fight more enemies at an advantage.

Levant, my man! Where've you been, bro?

My welcoming team is one man short!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, anniec8711 said:

Levant, my man! Where've you been, bro?

My welcoming team is one man short!

The random complaining is on point as always but in this case...

He's actually semi-right knights are like the worst thing in SS because move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He argued that Amelia is best as a paladin which is damn wrong. Paladin's caps are shit compared with generals, and you have enough paladins with 4 cannon paladins who are cavaliers/paladins from the beginning and have decent base stats and a correct level plus more availability. If I want a cavalier, I take Franz for speed, Forde for skill and a little more res, Kyle for strength and HP (he's better as a GK than paladin but still).

You can grind on the north-east map after beating Rausten chapters and get as many stat boosters as you want before final chapters, so yes, caps matter, and a female general with capped stats, even if it's only 1/2 of her caps, is better than a fully capped paladin. You want mobility? use the boots on your general and he get as much move as your praized sacred twins after they get a horse. Anyay mobility is only useful for specific chapters where you don't run into blocks of ennemies every 6 tiles. And the final chapters don't require mobility, or just warp your units to the boss and that's all, it doesn't matter how much ovements your units have when you can warp them to the other half of the map. Paladins are useful but I don't count on them for the final chapters, especially when in the 1st part you can only fly skip the chapter which has tons of forest tiles so paladins won't do more than generals and they don't have as much HP outside of Kyle who has bad everything else than HP and strength and a shitty str cap in the overrated class while he could as well cap it in GK and have 3 more damage. Paladins don't even have more spd than generals and their str cap being one of the worst in the game outside of assassins/rogues who are put into the troll section doesn't help.

I rarely bring any paladin outside of Seth (when I use him at all, which is not even 50% of my PT) into the final chapters because they're worthless. Why use pals when you have Cormag, Myrrh, bishops who can whipe the entire maps without taking any magic damage and dodging some attacks, Neimi who can OS flyers and ORKO dragons with a brave bow before it moves, etc.? Paladins are good for chapters like 9-A where you have to kill the fuckin pirates but outside of that I'd go with a flyer over a paladin 100%. Flyers do the chase job while foot units clear the biggest part of the map. Anyway when there are so many items to steal, why just all in with paladins and loose these items because you have too much mobility and the ennemy wielding it got suicide before you could steal it? Just go at the right pace and steal what you have to steal. Having slow movement front units allows your rogue to catch up with them quickly when he can steal an item. And when you want mobility, you can still fly your general Amelia to the front (I don't think general Gilliam can be flawn at all with 16 con) or put them on horseback and drop her where you need her to do the job. Why are people so damn annoying with mobility in games that allow you to ferry units with more mobile units? Did you ever complain of Eirika's mobility? no because you ferry her to the objective and that's it. So why would you complain about anyone else's mobility? I see people telling Garcia is a good flyer killer with bows while the guy has trash-tier everything even skill outside of HP and strength! And his bow level needs to get to B at least for him to be of any use from midgame and, guess what, your 1st hero seal in one of the 2 routes comes with a better candidate for it who can also use bows but has top tier base stats and is already level 10! The next is 3 chapters later at the end of the chapter! Mid game is already advanced by then and Garcia will never see any light if he doesn't get the instant promotion in chapter 10.

Edit: GK with boots has the same mobility as paladin but full WTC and much higher total stat caps: +3 str, -2 skl, +4 def, means they have +5 in caps. And hammers+armorslayers+the other armor killing weapon aren't so common than in more recent games notably Fates.

Edited by mangasdeouf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, anniec8711 said:

Levant, my man! Where've you been, bro?

My welcoming team is one man short!

Busy. Simply put: Too much anime, not enough time to watch it all.

7 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

He argued that Amelia is best as a paladin which is damn wrong. Paladin's caps are shit compared with generals, and you have enough paladins with 4 cannon paladins who are cavaliers/paladins from the beginning and have decent base stats and a correct level plus more availability. If I want a cavalier, I take Franz for speed, Forde for skill and a little more res, Kyle for strength and HP (he's better as a GK than paladin but still).

You can grind on the north-east map after beating Rausten chapters and get as many stat boosters as you want before final chapters, so yes, caps matter, and a female general with capped stats, even if it's only 1/2 of her caps, is better than a fully capped paladin. You want mobility? use the boots on your general and he get as much move as your praized sacred twins after they get a horse. Anyay mobility is only useful for specific chapters where you don't run into blocks of ennemies every 6 tiles. And the final chapters don't require mobility, or just warp your units to the boss and that's all, it doesn't matter how much ovements your units have when you can warp them to the other half of the map. Paladins are useful but I don't count on them for the final chapters, especially when in the 1st part you can only fly skip the chapter which has tons of forest tiles so paladins won't do more than generals and they don't have as much HP outside of Kyle who has bad everything else than HP and strength and a shitty str cap in the overrated class while he could as well cap it in GK and have 3 more damage. Paladins don't even have more spd than generals and their str cap being one of the worst in the game outside of assassins/rogues who are put into the troll section doesn't help.

I rarely bring any paladin outside of Seth (when I use him at all, which is not even 50% of my PT) into the final chapters because they're worthless. Why use pals when you have Cormag, Myrrh, bishops who can whipe the entire maps without taking any magic damage and dodging some attacks, Neimi who can OS flyers and ORKO dragons with a brave bow before it moves, etc.? Paladins are good for chapters like 9-A where you have to kill the fuckin pirates but outside of that I'd go with a flyer over a paladin 100%. Flyers do the chase job while foot units clear the biggest part of the map. Anyway when there are so many items to steal, why just all in with paladins and loose these items because you have too much mobility and the ennemy wielding it got suicide before you could steal it? Just go at the right pace and steal what you have to steal. Having slow movement front units allows your rogue to catch up with them quickly when he can steal an item. And when you want mobility, you can still fly your general Amelia to the front (I don't think general Gilliam can be flawn at all with 16 con) or put them on horseback and drop her where you need her to do the job. Why are people so damn annoying with mobility in games that allow you to ferry units with more mobile units? Did you ever complain of Eirika's mobility? no because you ferry her to the objective and that's it. So why would you complain about anyone else's mobility? I see people telling Garcia is a good flyer killer with bows while the guy has trash-tier everything even skill outside of HP and strength! And his bow level needs to get to B at least for him to be of any use from midgame and, guess what, your 1st hero seal in one of the 2 routes comes with a better candidate for it who can also use bows but has top tier base stats and is already level 10! The next is 3 chapters later at the end of the chapter! Mid game is already advanced by then and Garcia will never see any light if he doesn't get the instant promotion in chapter 10.

Edit: GK with boots has the same mobility as paladin but full WTC and much higher total stat caps: +3 str, -2 skl, +4 def, means they have +5 in caps. And hammers+armorslayers+the other armor killing weapon aren't so common than in more recent games notably Fates.

I argued that it made her easier to train, which is a fact. Unless you think only being able to fight sword users at an advantage is better than having an advantage over axe users as well...? Also, Paladin is a good class. General is not, and neither is Great Knight. Simple as that. I'm more than happy to have 5 of a good class rather than 4 of a good class and one of a bad one.

Except by then, the game is virtually over. Also, caps don't matter nearly as much as you think they do. As for the boots, why save them for a General when I could use them on a Paladin and have them get first strike on pretty much anything? WRT Kyle, I don't see him as better off in Great Knight when the class is a glorified foot unit that takes worse movement penalties. Their only having 6 move defeats the purpose of them being mounted in the first place.

As for 9 Eirika, I'd use a paladin because one village is too far for anyone other than a mounted unit to get there in time, and paladins have the advantage over pirates. As for stealing, gems, stat boosters, and promotion items are the most valuable, and I'm not going to just up and kill the enemy before I take them. As for Amelia, why in the name of Hylia would I want to go Knight > General when it requires too much effort and the payoff isn't reward enough???  Two tiers of 4 move lance lock sounds very unappealing to go through, especially when the alternative is a good class. So I'd much rather have her be able to get to the front lines on horseback than have her constantly needing to be rescued by someone else to get there, thank you very much. Regarding mobility, higher move means a better chance of being able to attack from an advantageous position.

Except for the part where Great Knights have to worry about anti-armor AND anti-cavalry weapons. Aside from that, in the context of promoting cavaliers, they don't get enough to make up for that and the loss of movement.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great knight don't have to worry about effective weapons because there's less than 1 per chapter, same for generals. There are more beast killers and zanbatou than armor killers. Amelia as a cavalier has less def than Franz so LOLmovement is useless because she's gonna die if she goes on the front lines. As a knight she has more base armor correct me if I'm wrong and she has highers caps. Why would I struggle raising cavalier Amelia to get generic paladin #5 while I could as well take 5 Valni tower stage 1 or even 4 and make her better than any of said generic paladins? Because Amelia with Great shield + 20+ def + 12+ res + 60+ avoid means she will hardly take any damage, while generic paladin #5 will have more like 15+ def 12+ res 60+ avoid and no great shield to tank what she doesn't avoid. Generals have full WTC while paladins have partial WTC. A 7 move general is more useful than a 10 move paladin because nobody can keep up with the 10 move paladin, meaning if you use it all, you're just sending said paladin to death. While your general can keep up with most of your army and being able to do the frontline job better than anyone, and also having enough defence to save someone without dying of the speed (and so avoid) penalty.

If your strat consists of throwing 4-5 mobile units in and ROFLstomping, then yo play no brain mode and you could get one of your units killed because of bad defensive stats (in hard not in normal) and yes caps matter against dragon zombies and Formortiis, especially when the lattest can crit OS your unit if said unit doesn't have enough luck, and no normal unit can take 2 hits of Formotiis, correct me if I'm wrong. But genrals and GKs can because they have enough def to make the 50 damage become 25-ish, while your 60 HP Kyle without capping stats will have less than 16 luck average (a lot less) and barely 20 def, which means he's taking 30-ish damage per hit with more than 1% crit chance to get OS. Amelia, Ross and Ewan can all reduce this crit to 0 with base stats, but none of them can take 2 hits in their supposed best class since paladin's def is average, which means trash in late game, where ennemies have more than 25 MT each both physical and magical, some more than 30 damage, Lyon has 55 magic damage and 15% crit rate which means your paladin is probably gonna get OS anyway if he didn't get healed just before he attacks Lyon. Meanwhile his level 18 tier 2 is equal to 38, so a general (who has average 60 HP at this stage of the game even without grinding past promotion and without more than 1 robe for Amelia, my Gilliam is gonna cap HP at 16 at this rate and he only took a skill tome in chapter 5 because he needed more hit against LOL0damage axes which would tickle him even in hard while he stood still at 11 def for 6+ levels after the 2 first level ups) would have 38% chance to block Formortiis/Lyon's attack which would result in no damage no crit chance nothing and a full HP bar after fighting end bosses.

How is general a bad class remind me? Movement right? Boots are there for this exact purpose, while paladins would waste the bonus movement most of the time by being body blocked by ennemies. Rather than giving it to paladins give it to rogues so they reach the chests faster if you dislike generals so much. But it doesn't cut FE8 generals from being the best tanking class ever created with ennemy's level chance of blocking every fckin hit even against bosses and nullifying physical damage as well as magical damage. There aren't many physical classes able to reduce magic damage by a good amount, maybe none aside from pegasi who barely tickle physical ennemies and need your best weapons to do what Gilliam does with iron. Or even slim. Meanwhile he can take physical AND magical hits, reduce a few to 0 and most of the time reaches HP and def (highest) caps naturally. Put a general on the front (alone) in final chapter part 1. Then put Seth/Franz/Kyle/E.Elrick (excuse me, Forde) at the same spot. If the paladins don't avoid enough they are likely to get ORKO, while this won't ever happen to Gilliam who has around the same res with more HP than most of them (LOLSethHP) without any stat booster and capped def that nullifies almost every single physical hit outside from dragonzombies' because they negate armor and he can still block a few hits, hoping magic ones (still more than 20% chance to block in most cases). And LOLGarm Gilliam is hilarious with 25-ish speed if max level or 22-ish if halfway through tier 2. Overusing hand axes helps him getting to S quite fast. Why axes? Because axes are the most powerful physical weapon and Gilliam has 1. access to it, 2. the con to wield every fckin axe without a speed penalty (even dumbsh_t battle axe) and his disadvantage against swords just means he's gonna get hit more often by 0 damage so LMAO at lance general who doesn't get a +5 speed bonus with lgd weapon and can actually take little damage from WTAd ennemies, especially when Macdaires have more strength than most of the monsters who can wield weapons and it is possible that some use a killer axe with 35-ish damage in chapter 21 (or is it 20?) which would be nice to have 10% more chance of avoiding even if it's far from lethal for 60 HP 30 def. A general with 3 hand axes and 2 elixirs can rout maps even with groups of 3 magic users, because they are tanks with damage and average good enough speed to double the tanky ennemies. Rout alone and with a fast pace. so be it 5 or 7 move, it's better to kill everyone on EP and elixir abuse when needed and rushing straight forward than havin 8 or 10 move but having to care of ennemies and their hit rates because even a 25 damage ennemy can deal 5-10 damage to your little bu_t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

Great knight don't have to worry about effective weapons because there's less than 1 per chapter, same for generals. There are more beast killers and zanbatou than armor killers. Amelia as a cavalier has less def than Franz so LOLmovement is useless because she's gonna die if she goes on the front lines. As a knight she has more base armor correct me if I'm wrong and she has highers caps. Why would I struggle raising cavalier Amelia to get generic paladin #5 while I could as well take 5 Valni tower stage 1 or even 4 and make her better than any of said generic paladins? Because Amelia with Great shield + 20+ def + 12+ res + 60+ avoid means she will hardly take any damage, while generic paladin #5 will have more like 15+ def 12+ res 60+ avoid and no great shield to tank what she doesn't avoid. Generals have full WTC while paladins have partial WTC. A 7 move general is more useful than a 10 move paladin because nobody can keep up with the 10 move paladin, meaning if you use it all, you're just sending said paladin to death. While your general can keep up with most of your army and being able to do the frontline job better than anyone, and also having enough defence to save someone without dying of the speed (and so avoid) penalty.

If your strat consists of throwing 4-5 mobile units in and ROFLstomping, then yo play no brain mode and you could get one of your units killed because of bad defensive stats (in hard not in normal) and yes caps matter against dragon zombies and Formortiis, especially when the lattest can crit OS your unit if said unit doesn't have enough luck, and no normal unit can take 2 hits of Formotiis, correct me if I'm wrong. But genrals and GKs can because they have enough def to make the 50 damage become 25-ish, while your 60 HP Kyle without capping stats will have less than 16 luck average (a lot less) and barely 20 def, which means he's taking 30-ish damage per hit with more than 1% crit chance to get OS. Amelia, Ross and Ewan can all reduce this crit to 0 with base stats, but none of them can take 2 hits in their supposed best class since paladin's def is average, which means trash in late game, where ennemies have more than 25 MT each both physical and magical, some more than 30 damage, Lyon has 55 magic damage and 15% crit rate which means your paladin is probably gonna get OS anyway if he didn't get healed just before he attacks Lyon. Meanwhile his level 18 tier 2 is equal to 38, so a general (who has average 60 HP at this stage of the game even without grinding past promotion and without more than 1 robe for Amelia, my Gilliam is gonna cap HP at 16 at this rate and he only took a skill tome in chapter 5 because he needed more hit against LOL0damage axes which would tickle him even in hard while he stood still at 11 def for 6+ levels after the 2 first level ups) would have 38% chance to block Formortiis/Lyon's attack which would result in no damage no crit chance nothing and a full HP bar after fighting end bosses.

How is general a bad class remind me? Movement right? Boots are there for this exact purpose, while paladins would waste the bonus movement most of the time by being body blocked by ennemies. Rather than giving it to paladins give it to rogues so they reach the chests faster if you dislike generals so much. But it doesn't cut FE8 generals from being the best tanking class ever created with ennemy's level chance of blocking every fckin hit even against bosses and nullifying physical damage as well as magical damage. There aren't many physical classes able to reduce magic damage by a good amount, maybe none aside from pegasi who barely tickle physical ennemies and need your best weapons to do what Gilliam does with iron. Or even slim. Meanwhile he can take physical AND magical hits, reduce a few to 0 and most of the time reaches HP and def (highest) caps naturally. Put a general on the front (alone) in final chapter part 1. Then put Seth/Franz/Kyle/E.Elrick (excuse me, Forde) at the same spot. If the paladins don't avoid enough they are likely to get ORKO, while this won't ever happen to Gilliam who has around the same res with more HP than most of them (LOLSethHP) without any stat booster and capped def that nullifies almost every single physical hit outside from dragonzombies' because they negate armor and he can still block a few hits, hoping magic ones (still more than 20% chance to block in most cases). And LOLGarm Gilliam is hilarious with 25-ish speed if max level or 22-ish if halfway through tier 2. Overusing hand axes helps him getting to S quite fast. Why axes? Because axes are the most powerful physical weapon and Gilliam has 1. access to it, 2. the con to wield every fckin axe without a speed penalty (even dumbsh_t battle axe) and his disadvantage against swords just means he's gonna get hit more often by 0 damage so LMAO at lance general who doesn't get a +5 speed bonus with lgd weapon and can actually take little damage from WTAd ennemies, especially when Macdaires have more strength than most of the monsters who can wield weapons and it is possible that some use a killer axe with 35-ish damage in chapter 21 (or is it 20?) which would be nice to have 10% more chance of avoiding even if it's far from lethal for 60 HP 30 def. A general with 3 hand axes and 2 elixirs can rout maps even with groups of 3 magic users, because they are tanks with damage and average good enough speed to double the tanky ennemies. Rout alone and with a fast pace. so be it 5 or 7 move, it's better to kill everyone on EP and elixir abuse when needed and rushing straight forward than havin 8 or 10 move but having to care of ennemies and their hit rates because even a 25 damage ennemy can deal 5-10 damage to your little bu_t.

Dude the difference between cavalier Amelia and knight Amelia bulk wise is 1 hp and 2 defense. There is no way that 1 hp and 2 defense is going to make the difference between a unit with no bulk and the king of frontliners. It’s not at all a big difference. The difference between Paladin Amelia and General Amelia is 3 HP and 4 Defense which is notable, but not significant enough to make up for 3 move. And Great Shield I’m almost certain ignores if an enemy is promoted.

Also General Amelia is not significantly more tanky than the paladins against physical enemies even when majorly grinded. /20 Seth has 47HP and 19 Def, Franz has 53 HP and 17/18 Def at 20/20, Forde has 54HP and 17 Def at 20/20, Kyle has 58 HP and 19/20 Def at 20/20, all as Paladins, and Amelia has 49 HP and 21 Def at 10/20/20. Keep in mind that not only does Amelia start at a much lower level with much worse stats than all of them she has a higher defense growth than all of them but Seth, meaning that the farther back in the game we go the worse her defense lead gets. Also keep in mind that literally all of these units except Seth won’t reasonably hit 20/20, so Amelia is likely going to be way worse than the stats shown above. 

Also a 7 move general is way worse than a 10 move Paladin, WTF are you smoking? Especially in Sacred Stones, since the enemies are generally weak enough that you can put a well leveled unit into a bunch of enemies and watch them all be slaughtered. Keeping the units together is pointless especially in this game because enemies are weak. 

Caps do not matter in Sacred Stones, especially with regards to Amelia, since she’s capping speed and maybe luck at best, and all three of her possible classes have the same luck cap. Dracozombies exist for one map, and Formortis only exists for one map as well so it’s not like they’re big threats, especially since you have like 8 weapons that are effective versus them. All you need is like two units that can survive a round against Formortis and you can do a ton of damage, and it’s pretty easy to kill him turn 2 since I think all he does is summon units turn 1. Not a big deal.

Remember, Formortis is one unit. He’s not the whole game. He’s not that hard to take out no matter what your team is.

On the boots bit, boots are found in Chapter 15, and there are like two chapters with chests left in the game, none of which have very valuable items. Giving boots to a rogue is a complete waste.

Alright so in the theoretical situation that you only have one unit to use in the final chapter, Gilliam solos more easily, however, that situation will never exist. There’s absolutely no reason not to use other units.

Garm Gilliam will usually have like 21/22 Speed capped, which I don’t believe is fast enough to double the demon king. This of course being in the extremely unlikely case that Gilliam is 20/20. 

Also Gilliam can’t wield the Devil Axe without a speed penalty.

If were talking about killing on enemy phase, Gilliam is one of the worst because his speed is complete garbage, meaning he struggles to double anything ever. 

Sorry if this is a bit incoherent and messy, but I really disagree with the assertion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gilliam's strength alone allows him to kill most ennemies in 1 hit and as opposed to Kyle (his closer rival) he has the accuracy to do it and Kyle doesn't double a lot more than Gilliam if ever. Talking about hard mode. Gilliam with silver OS most things or 2 rounds everything except a few bulky bosses. And Gilliam is self-sufficient and his 20/1 res is enough to make him able to destroy the game (much easier than Seth BTW and he reaches 20 during chapter 6/7 for me in a solo run for which his closer comparison is Seth who has less def, hp and suffers a lot more from spd penalty than Gilliam anyway) Gilliam holds Ephraim Amelia nobody, or even Gilliam hold Ephraim and soloes. Just buy elixirs with the cash you get from free promotion items since you don't need a team, Gilliam is your one man army. His average stats make him able to solo the game while holding the unbearably useless lord.

And Gilliam isn't the best knight ever.

Edited by mangasdeouf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Great knight don't have to worry about effective weapons because there's less than 1 per chapter, same for generals. There are more beast killers and zanbatou than armor killers. Amelia as a cavalier has less def than Franz so LOLmovement is useless because she's gonna die if she goes on the front lines. As a knight she has more base armor correct me if I'm wrong and she has highers caps. Why would I struggle raising cavalier Amelia to get generic paladin #5 while I could as well take 5 Valni tower stage 1 or even 4 and make her better than any of said generic paladins? Because Amelia with Great shield + 20+ def + 12+ res + 60+ avoid means she will hardly take any damage, while generic paladin #5 will have more like 15+ def 12+ res 60+ avoid and no great shield to tank what she doesn't avoid. Generals have full WTC while paladins have partial WTC. A 7 move general is more useful than a 10 move paladin because nobody can keep up with the 10 move paladin, meaning if you use it all, you're just sending said paladin to death. While your general can keep up with most of your army and being able to do the frontline job better than anyone, and also having enough defence to save someone without dying of the speed (and so avoid) penalty.

If your strat consists of throwing 4-5 mobile units in and ROFLstomping, then yo play no brain mode and you could get one of your units killed because of bad defensive stats (in hard not in normal) and yes caps matter against dragon zombies and Formortiis, especially when the lattest can crit OS your unit if said unit doesn't have enough luck, and no normal unit can take 2 hits of Formotiis, correct me if I'm wrong. But genrals and GKs can because they have enough def to make the 50 damage become 25-ish, while your 60 HP Kyle without capping stats will have less than 16 luck average (a lot less) and barely 20 def, which means he's taking 30-ish damage per hit with more than 1% crit chance to get OS. Amelia, Ross and Ewan can all reduce this crit to 0 with base stats, but none of them can take 2 hits in their supposed best class since paladin's def is average, which means trash in late game, where ennemies have more than 25 MT each both physical and magical, some more than 30 damage, Lyon has 55 magic damage and 15% crit rate which means your paladin is probably gonna get OS anyway if he didn't get healed just before he attacks Lyon. Meanwhile his level 18 tier 2 is equal to 38, so a general (who has average 60 HP at this stage of the game even without grinding past promotion and without more than 1 robe for Amelia, my Gilliam is gonna cap HP at 16 at this rate and he only took a skill tome in chapter 5 because he needed more hit against LOL0damage axes which would tickle him even in hard while he stood still at 11 def for 6+ levels after the 2 first level ups) would have 38% chance to block Formortiis/Lyon's attack which would result in no damage no crit chance nothing and a full HP bar after fighting end bosses.

How is general a bad class remind me? Movement right? Boots are there for this exact purpose, while paladins would waste the bonus movement most of the time by being body blocked by ennemies. Rather than giving it to paladins give it to rogues so they reach the chests faster if you dislike generals so much. But it doesn't cut FE8 generals from being the best tanking class ever created with ennemy's level chance of blocking every fckin hit even against bosses and nullifying physical damage as well as magical damage. There aren't many physical classes able to reduce magic damage by a good amount, maybe none aside from pegasi who barely tickle physical ennemies and need your best weapons to do what Gilliam does with iron. Or even slim. Meanwhile he can take physical AND magical hits, reduce a few to 0 and most of the time reaches HP and def (highest) caps naturally. Put a general on the front (alone) in final chapter part 1. Then put Seth/Franz/Kyle/E.Elrick (excuse me, Forde) at the same spot. If the paladins don't avoid enough they are likely to get ORKO, while this won't ever happen to Gilliam who has around the same res with more HP than most of them (LOLSethHP) without any stat booster and capped def that nullifies almost every single physical hit outside from dragonzombies' because they negate armor and he can still block a few hits, hoping magic ones (still more than 20% chance to block in most cases). And LOLGarm Gilliam is hilarious with 25-ish speed if max level or 22-ish if halfway through tier 2. Overusing hand axes helps him getting to S quite fast. Why axes? Because axes are the most powerful physical weapon and Gilliam has 1. access to it, 2. the con to wield every fckin axe without a speed penalty (even dumbsh_t battle axe) and his disadvantage against swords just means he's gonna get hit more often by 0 damage so LMAO at lance general who doesn't get a +5 speed bonus with lgd weapon and can actually take little damage from WTAd ennemies, especially when Macdaires have more strength than most of the monsters who can wield weapons and it is possible that some use a killer axe with 35-ish damage in chapter 21 (or is it 20?) which would be nice to have 10% more chance of avoiding even if it's far from lethal for 60 HP 30 def. A general with 3 hand axes and 2 elixirs can rout maps even with groups of 3 magic users, because they are tanks with damage and average good enough speed to double the tanky ennemies. Rout alone and with a fast pace. so be it 5 or 7 move, it's better to kill everyone on EP and elixir abuse when needed and rushing straight forward than havin 8 or 10 move but having to care of ennemies and their hit rates because even a 25 damage ennemy can deal 5-10 damage to your little bu_t.

Except the anti-cavalry weapons are weaker than the anti-armor weapons (6 might Zanbato vs 8 might Armorslayer, and 7 might Horseslayer vs 9 might Heavy Spear. The axes are the same might, but the Halberd loses out because the class that it hits effectively can get WTA over it). As for Amelia, she only gets +2 defense as a knight - must I relay how laughable a Knight Amelia with 4 Defense is? Because even Wendy - the same Wendy that is often labeled as the worst unit in the series - considers that a joke. If raising Cavalier Amelia is a struggle, which it shouldn't be because she isn't easy prey for axes any more, what does that make trying to train Knight Amelia, who can't reach the frontlines without having to gimp someone else in the process??? Because it ain't like she is gonna be queen of the frontlines as a knight.

It's Sacred Stones, man. I mean, even a base level Seth can put in work against endgame enemies. On hard mode. Which should be saying something. Draco Zombies are in only one chapter, and Fomortiis and Lyon are only two units. Fomortiis is also a complete joke - about the only thing he gets to do before dying is summon, which won't help him when he's already taken a beating from the twins, who can reach him on turn 1. Lyon's no better - he hits hard, but is so slow anyone can double him. Meaning anyone who can take a hit and can use a Sacred Twin can destroy him in no time. And as far as I'm concerned, throwing a general at Lyon and hoping Great Shield saves you from getting rekt is poor strategy. 17% is not good odds.

Exactly - their overkill defense means little in the face of the weakness of SS enemies, too. By the time you get the boots, there are only three chapters with chests. And I don't see an unreliable damage negation skill as enough to make SS generals the best tanking class ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are enough chests to make it valuable on a rogue especially when you don't want the thieves to steal your precious treasures.

His def is overkill, exactly, while any other unit except Duessel who got trash skill and speed and not so good HP for his other stats, and Amelia as a general can be as good (not as much def but enough to be good tanks and 1 dracoshield makes them very good at it, while the others need more than 1 dracoshield and a few talismans). So Gilliam barely takes any physical damage in a game with 80% physical damage ennemies, meaning Gilliam barely takes any damage from the moment he reaches 14 def at first to the end of the game. With barely 50% growth and a shitty 9 base. So even not being the best knight in the series, his class bases and his correct growths make him solo material and he's much better at this than Seth can hope (how many times I would have to reset with 9 speed Seth holding the lord...too many) and Gilliam's speed reaches a level close to Seth's on average, with the few speedwings you get for him he reaches 20+ with 30 def so he doesn't fear anything and his weapons don't slow him more while the lord already does (unlike Seth who looses speed with most good lances outside of javelin and silver).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

There are enough chests to make it valuable on a rogue especially when you don't want the thieves to steal your precious treasures.

His def is overkill, exactly, while any other unit except Duessel who got trash skill and speed and not so good HP for his other stats, and Amelia as a general can be as good (not as much def but enough to be good tanks and 1 dracoshield makes them very good at it, while the others need more than 1 dracoshield and a few talismans). So Gilliam barely takes any physical damage in a game with 80% physical damage ennemies, meaning Gilliam barely takes any damage from the moment he reaches 14 def at first to the end of the game. With barely 50% growth and a shitty 9 base. So even not being the best knight in the series, his class bases and his correct growths make him solo material and he's much better at this than Seth can hope (how many times I would have to reset with 9 speed Seth holding the lord...too many) and Gilliam's speed reaches a level close to Seth's on average, with the few speedwings you get for him he reaches 20+ with 30 def so he doesn't fear anything and his weapons don't slow him more while the lord already does (unlike Seth who looses speed with most good lances outside of javelin and silver).

Chest contents from post-chapter 15 chapters:

Chapter 16:

Tomahawk, 5000 gold, Knight Crest, Talisman

Chapter 19:

Fenrir, Runesword, Speedwing, Bolting, Fortify, 5000 gold

Final:

Angelic Robe, Master Seal

Out of those, the only really worthwhile items are the Bolting, Fortify, money, Speedwing, Angelic Robe, and maybe the Talisman.

I doubt that Gilliam could feasibly solo the game. Why? Because of chapter 19. Also, the only lances Seth loses AS from are steel (generally inferior to iron), brave (not obtained until chapter 19), horseslayer, heavy spear, and short spear. None of these are exactly what I'd call good weapons. Regarding Amelia, I don't really see what makes making her a general worth it when her defense is disappointing for one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...