Best and worse skills in the games ?

[FootwaySublong]

Best is definitely Astra in Fates, worst is probably some shit like shove.

[DisobeyedCargo]

Just now, FootwaySublong said:

Best is definitely Astra in Fates, worst is probably some shit like shove.

I wouldn't quite say astra is the best skill in the game due to its semi low activation, though it's still quite good simply due to its gigantic damage output and the possibility of getting like 3 Crits in a row. It's also my actual favorite skill 

 

life and death and quixotic are the best skills 

replicate for utility and rend heaven for reliability are the best 

skill plus two is the worst

if we're not including the +2 skills then foreign princess 

[Shadow Mir]

30 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

Best is definitely Astra in Fates, worst is probably some shit like shove.

I disagree big time - I fail to see what makes it worth being called best when it pales in comparison to the likes of Renewal as it is in said game...

25 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I wouldn't quite say astra is the best skill in the game due to its semi low activation, though it's still quite good simply due to its gigantic damage output and the possibility of getting like 3 Crits in a row. It's also my actual favorite skill 

 

replicate for utility and rend heaven for reliability are the best 

You mean the "gigantic" damage output that requires facing a unit with low defense? Because anything defensive will just laugh it off.

To be honest, I do not see what makes those worth calling best - Replicate is too risky, and Rend Heaven can potentially be a dud.

[DisobeyedCargo]

16 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I disagree big time - I fail to see what makes it worth being called best when it pales in comparison to the likes of Renewal as it is in said game...

You mean the "gigantic" damage output that requires facing a unit with low defense? Because anything defensive will just laugh it off.

To be honest, I do not see what makes those worth calling best - Replicate is too risky, and Rend Heaven can potentially be a dud.

Replicate due to the sheer strategic value of having two of your best units available 

 

and remd heaven is good for some reliable damage output cause of its high activation rate, though go Luna if you want more damage 

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Replicate due to the sheer strategic value of having two of your best units available 

 

and remd heaven is good for some reliable damage output cause of its high activation rate, though go Luna if you want more damage 

Except if one dies, you can say hasta la vista to the other. And that it means more chance to get screwed by debuffs, Freeze, and Hexing Rods...

If you match up physical with physical and magical with magical, since most non-hybrid classes have a shiny goose egg in one of strength or magic.

[DisobeyedCargo]

6 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except if one dies, you can say hasta la vista to the other. And that it means more chance to get screwed by debuffs, Freeze, and Hexing Rods...

If you match up physical with physical and magical with magical, since most non-hybrid classes have a shiny goose egg in one of strength or magic.

I'd personally take that risk if it means I can have two ryoma's or two corrins out on the field

 

[Moblin Major General]

1 hour ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I'd personally take that risk if it means I can have two ryoma's or two corrins out on the field

 

it requires a really underwhelming class to get.

The best is probably Paragon or Aptitude in Awakening (though the class attached to it sucks).The worst has to be Tellius Gamble and Life and Death.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I'd personally take that risk if it means I can have two ryoma's or two corrins out on the field

 

It requires getting to level 15, so you won't be getting any mileage out of it until very late in the game, if at all.

[FootwaySublong]

On 5/3/2018 at 7:09 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I disagree big time - I fail to see what makes it worth being called best when it pales in comparison to the likes of Renewal as it is in said game...

You mean the "gigantic" damage output that requires facing a unit with low defense? Because anything defensive will just laugh it off.

To be honest, I do not see what makes those worth calling best - Replicate is too risky, and Rend Heaven can potentially be a dud.

I'd also say Renewal is pretty good, but Astra literally gives you 5 chances to get a crit, and even if you don't crit, that's 2.5x damage. 

 

Astra crits do deal lower damage, but that's a small price to pay.

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 hours ago, FootwaySublong said:

 

Astra crits do deal lower damage, but that's a small price to pay.

And those Crits even at half damage are still doing more damage than your original attack 

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

And those Crits even at half damage are still doing more damage than your original attack 

Not to mention it fills the defense stance guage like there's no tomorrow.

[Aut]

Honestly I don’t think Astra is that good of a skill. As far as offensive skills go it’s too unreliable to be counted on since it’s proc rate is so low, it’s not hard for the units that can use Astra easily to ORKO without it (Hinata might be a bit out there but Ryoma definitely doesn’t need it and trained Hana is probably good enough to kill stuff, not that killing is her biggest problem), and as far as defensively based proc skills go Sol is far better simply because if you’re doing good damage odds are you can heal a good deal with Sol, more than the extra guard stance would prevent you from taking with strong units, and it’s proc rate is significantly bigger than Astra’s. I mean it’s not the worst thing in the world but more reliable offensive boosts are preferred.

Renewal isn’t very good either IMO. Usually the problem isn’t surviving after a big enemy phase, it’s surviving the enemy phase itself, and Renewal does nothing to help you there. Like Astra I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world, but you can definitely do better than both

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

Astra

Rend Heaven 

Renewal

vengeance

 

[Shadow Mir]

17 hours ago, FootwaySublong said:

I'd also say Renewal is pretty good, but Astra literally gives you 5 chances to get a crit, and even if you don't crit, that's 2.5x damage. 

 

Astra crits do deal lower damage, but that's a small price to pay.

 

13 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

And those Crits even at half damage are still doing more damage than your original attack 

 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Not to mention it fills the defense stance guage like there's no tomorrow.

Except (1) it has a pretty low trigger rate, (2) critical hits are unreliable af, and (3) it would likely take a miracle or a really strong enemy defensively for Astra to take an empty shield gauge straight to full.

1 hour ago, Aut said:

Honestly I don’t think Astra is that good of a skill. As far as offensive skills go it’s too unreliable to be counted on since it’s proc rate is so low, it’s not hard for the units that can use Astra easily to ORKO without it (Hinata might be a bit out there but Ryoma definitely doesn’t need it and trained Hana is probably good enough to kill stuff, not that killing is her biggest problem), and as far as defensively based proc skills go Sol is far better simply because if you’re doing good damage odds are you can heal a good deal with Sol, more than the extra guard stance would prevent you from taking with strong units, and it’s proc rate is significantly bigger than Astra’s. I mean it’s not the worst thing in the world but more reliable offensive boosts are preferred.

Renewal isn’t very good either IMO. Usually the problem isn’t surviving after a big enemy phase, it’s surviving the enemy phase itself, and Renewal does nothing to help you there. Like Astra I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world, but you can definitely do better than both

At the same time, I think Sol fell from grace HARD after Radiant Dawn. Only having a chance to heal half of the damage dealt is not very good imo - especially when it only works once (by which I mean one attack would likely leave the target too damaged for Sol to do much good). Not helping is that for Sol to be a net positive, you either have to hope the enemy attack misses, that the enemy cannot counter, or that you deal twice as much as the enemy does. Or score a critical hit, which is hardly reliable. And all this while hoping it activates while the enemy is healthy.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[DisobeyedCargo]

Luna seems to have always done well. Having enemy def/res makes it great for enemies like generals or whatever class that has high resistance 

I still don't think anything will trump awakening's galeforce skill. The whole meta was centralized around that.

im gonna give a new worst to pyrotechnics. Yes because hurting yourself is always a good idea 

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except (1) it has a pretty low trigger rate, (2) critical hits are unreliable af, and (3) it would likely take a miracle or a really strong enemy defensively for Astra to take an empty shield gauge straight to full.

I'm still filling the shield guage way quicker than a regular attack one way or the other. 0% to 100% might be rare against anything that's not a boss, but 40% or 60% to 100% is pretty likely. The downside in it not filling the shield guage all the way arises from the fact that it's outright killing the enemy, which is generally what you want. Astra's a good skill, that's the whole reason it has a lower proc rate than most. If it activated at full damage on skill% and didn't drain durability, then it'd be stupidly bgood. You need all other skills to be as equally devestating and then you end up with Radiant Dawn's end game where the skills are so powerful they have to be disabled against any enemy where they might actually matter.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

26 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm still filling the shield guage way quicker than a regular attack one way or the other. 0% to 100% might be rare against anything that's not a boss, but 40% or 60% to 100% is pretty likely. The downside in it not filling the shield guage all the way arises from the fact that it's outright killing the enemy, which is generally what you want. Astra's a good skill, that's the whole reason it has a lower proc rate than most. If it activated at full damage on skill% and didn't drain durability, then it'd be stupidly bgood. You need all other skills to be as equally devestating and then you end up with Radiant Dawn's end game where the skills are so powerful they have to be disabled against any enemy where they might actually matter.

Um, sorry, but I do not see the correlation between activation chance and how good a skill is. I consider it worse than Luna, which has a better activation rate. If the correlation was there, you'd have to believe Lethality was good because it had a low activation rate. And for your information, making space for more units to attack you is a VERY BAD THING when you're working with units as frail as Hoshidans. Not to mention since we're talking about Swordmasters, they could just as easily crit, leaving you with a not full shield gauge instead.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[FootwaySublong]

18 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

And those Crits even at half damage are still doing more damage than your original attack 

That's a good point. Yeah, the proc rate is low, but really, Hana, with a base skill of 11 with her join time and 60% growth, Astra is going to at the very least be proccing more than a crit.

Ryoma is..... Ryoma, and Hinata still has pretty good skill of you feed him 2 secret books. 9 Base and 40% growth isn't as good as Hana, but it's serviceable.

That's what I'll quote any time someone says Astra isn't the best skill in the game.

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

That's a good point. Yeah, the proc rate is low, but really, Hana, with a base skill of 11 with her join time and 60% growth, Astra is going to at the very least be proccing more than a crit.

Ryoma is..... Ryoma, and Hinata still has pretty good skill of you feed him 2 secret books. 9 Base and 40% growth isn't as good as Hana, but it's serviceable.

That's what I'll quote any time someone says Astra isn't the best skill in the game.

No offense, but you're deluding yourself if you think it is. Also, Astra requires a lackluster class to obtain...

Edited May 7, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[FootwaySublong]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

No offense, but you're deluding yourself if you think it is. Also, Astra requires a lackluster class to obtain...

So what do you think is a better skill?

(Sorry if this sounds aggressive.)

[FootwaySublong]

On 5/3/2018 at 7:09 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I disagree big time - I fail to see what makes it worth being called best when it pales in comparison to the likes of Renewal as it is in said game...

You mean the "gigantic" damage output that requires facing a unit with low defense? Because anything defensive will just laugh it off.

To be honest, I do not see what makes those worth calling best - Replicate is too risky, and Rend Heaven can potentially be a dud.

If you're playing badly, replicate is horrible. However, having two Ryomas or two Sakuras or two Xanders is amazing, tbh.

[DisobeyedCargo]

14 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

If you're playing badly, replicate is horrible. However, having two Ryomas or two Sakuras or two Xanders is amazing, tbh.

It is obtained late in the game, so it's mostly relegated to castle battles. But even then having two healers or two corrins or two whatever is invaluable 

 

[DisobeyedCargo]

26 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

 

That's what I'll quote any time someone says Astra isn't the best skill in the game.

Again, I wouldn't quite say astra is the best skill in the game, but it can get pretty darn good. I still think nothing will trump awakening's galeforce.

if you can get your crit rate high enough (which isn't too hard with killer weapon or great club +high skill + innate crit bonus) even generals will be hard pressed to stand up to the back to back Crits.

if only it had a higher proc rate. Though I guess if it had Luna's proc rate it would be pretty OP.(Imagine if it had rend heavens proc rate!)

Edited May 7, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[FootwaySublong]

10 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

It is obtained late in the game, so it's mostly relegated to castle battles. But even then having two healers or two corrins or two whatever is invaluable 

 

Good point. I haven't even done castle battles, lol.

[Shadow Mir]

37 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

So what do you think is a better skill?

(Sorry if this sounds aggressive.)

Would you seriously try to argue Astra as being better than Awakening Galeforce??? I sure hope not. I highly doubt it would be better than Luna, either.

35 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

If you're playing badly, replicate is horrible. However, having two Ryomas or two Sakuras or two Xanders is amazing, tbh.

Except, as stated earlier, it's a level 15 skill, which means it won't be much, if any, help, since it woun't be obtained until very late in the game, if at all.

16 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Again, I wouldn't quite say astra is the best skill in the game, but it can get pretty darn good. I still think nothing will trump awakening's galeforce.

if you can get your crit rate high enough (which isn't too hard with killer weapon or great club +high skill + innate crit bonus) even generals will be hard pressed to stand up to the back to back Crits.

if only it had a higher proc rate. Though I guess if it had Luna's proc rate it would be pretty OP.(Imagine if it had rend heavens proc rate!)

Except those are all terrible weapons. Mentioning the Awful Club was a very easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. (45 base accuracy??? No thank you.)