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Fire Emblem is "Anime"????

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Yes, it's another one of these, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Let's get straight to it. 

 

So many people agree that recent FE is "anime", "weeb shit", etc.... I want to take an analytical look at things and figure out exactly what that means. We know that anime isn't actually a genre, so when people say 'anime" in this context they're usually referring to certain tropes, and sexually charged fanservice. The former appears occasionally in mid FE and it and the latter is in full effect in late FE. Is this your definition as well? I thought over all the games a bit...

 

:Dark Dragon and the Sword of Light: 

So this game's plot is a triple layered vanilla cake with a vanilla pudding core accompanied with a side of vanilla ice cream. It's decent, maybe even "good", but it's every medieval fantasy RPG ever. Forgivable, as this is an NES game and the very first in the franchise. We have young hero who is the sole wielder of sacred sword, fated to save the world from a dark wizard and/or an evil dragon, something that will continue to echo throughout the series. Is this "anime"? There are many examples of the "chosen one", and tiring as it may be, it's not exclusive to anime. Though my media knowledge is limited, I'm not inaccurate in stating this as this is rectified by a quick Google search or a brisk look at a Wiki page. I can't really give you any detailed examples, but out of all of you here, I'm sure you at least one of you can. In conclusion, nothing stands out as problematic here, other than being incredibly standard.  

 

 

:Gaiden: 

Okay, so this game in my opinion is definitely Kaga's worst work, gameplay and story wise. Being a fan of this game doesn't mean I can't criticize it. Your child's drawings are objectively shit, but you can like them anyway. This game has the "chosen one" trope, and it's much more obnoxious in its convolution than its siblings. In addition there's an evil wizard and a dark lord, though the latter is subverted by the fact the Doma isn't really evil. Is this "anime" though? I'd give you the same response as I did above. Being somehow more barebones than its predecessor, there's not much else to look at. I like to think Kaga came up with Gaiden on a drunken Saturday after dozing of to Star Wars or something. In conclusion, no "anime" detected.  

 

:Mystery of the Emblem: 

This game steps it up a bit. Slightly less vanilla than the previous Archanean title, and the birthplace of this series' possession trope we love. Still, there's not much to be said. In conclusion, no "anime" here. 

 

:Genealogy of the Holy War: 

This game is the series' high point regarding story. Without spoilers, I'll just say that this game as often regarded as the darkest FE. Yet none of it is for shock value, which I appreciate. Is this "anime"? Does any one know of any anime like FE4? Berserk maybe? Though that series does have an anime, we can say without question that it isn't "anime". In my conclusion, no "anime" here. 

 

:Thracia 776: 

This game is a lot like the previous title in story. I can say with confidence that this game is completely devoid of anything that can be described as "anime". If you disagree, you know what to do.  

 

:Binding Blade:  

I've often heard this game's plot compared to FE3, and I'd love it if someone were to finally explain this to me. I see it as more derivative of FE4, with its assortment of sacred weapons, and each wielder founding a land in their honor. This game offers a pleasant subversion in the evil wizard/evil dragon dynamic. Zephiel is acting on his own free will, and Idunn is a nice take on the evil dragon trope. Roy is a "chosen one", but other than his age and hair, he doesn't ping my "anime" radar. It's nice to see a lord who's his own tactician as well. With that being said, I don't really see anything noteworthy but if you do, let me know. The same can not be said for it's sister adaption, Hasha no Tsurugi however. Look at this dude.  

latest?cb=20090908085446 

 

It fills out any "anime" checklist you can think of. Immature boy protagonist, rash but always if not most of the time wins, power up forms, that hair.... 

You get the picture. This falls into the specific anime genre "shonen". 

 

:Blazing Sword: 

So I'm going to say something that's probably going to piss a lot of people off. Modern FE issues started with FE7.  

When asked, most people chalk up modern FE issues to avatar worship, "anime", and bad story, with a minority (based off of what I've seen) opinion in addition,  that being post FE5's lack of a singular sequence of events. They've opted for multiverse and time shenanigans in lieu. The avatar was born here, which would eventually lead to what we're dealing with today. Most people laud FE7 for its tame presentation of the concept, and I cannot argue too hard against that. However, Mark's "character" is so subtle that he's practically non-existent. Given IS and Kouhei Maeda's (the man who wrote this game is also the man responsible for FE12, Awakening and Fates, he became the supreme director starting with the former) approach towards things, I'm not confident in saying that it was a deliberate decision on their part. Do you think it was technical limitations or did they actually get it right intentionally? I'd say the former, and I can guarantee you that in the hypothetical remake of this game the avatar will be in the modern format. That is, being playable, able to support and marry anyone, etc.... I'm almost willing to bet money on it. In addition, you know that thing where characters turn forwards and look at you when they talk? That's the precursor to face-petting, friends. And when they do, it's the same pixelated fellatio everyone complains about about with FE12,13, and 14. It was also here the Dragon's Gate was introduced, giving birth to the Outrealms and other such nonsense, the most atrocious example being the Deeprealms in Fates. Granted, I don't see much "anime" here, with the only immediate thing I can think of is Guy, so this game scores decently well.  I find it amusing when people criticize modern FE and point to FE7 as a golden point. Overall my opinion is largely mixed, and slightly heavier on the negative side.  

 

:The Sacred Stones:  

Sacred Stones. You know, I've being seeing a lot of Ephraim criticism lately, which is odd because every time I called him flawless no one cared. They didn't oppose me, they just didn't care. Poor SS. I actually like this game, despite the sentiment that it's too easy. Hard mode + no grind is decent challenge for me. Anyway, flawless protagonists aren't necessarily "anime" either. We do have Ross with his shonen eqsue drive to become stronger, but I don't really see anything striking. We have a loli, derivative of the Tiki archetype. However, unlike the others her nii-chan thing caught my eye. Yeah, there's Raquesis who's way more extreme but I don't know. It didn't feel influenced by that stuff. In conclusion, I feel like SS is middle ground. 

 

:Path of Radiance:   

So I've seen Tellius get labelled as the most "shonen" continent. Some would say it's because of Ike vs. BK. Not only is that not inherently shonen but I don't think one loose example is enough to qualify it as such. I'm surprised that this is mentioned before the furries, which one just so happens to be a tsundere. Ike's occupation as a mercenary inherently makes him combat centric when compared to a noble or a royal. He does understandably seek to improve himself but I never got those "i wanna be da best eva!!!" vibes from him, unlike say, Mia. Some would say Ashnard. Aside from his ramblings we don't actually see much from him, and the little that we do seems to have had a positive effect on Daein's society if Edward's comments are anything to go by. Tangent aside, after further inspection we see he accepts Ena as a tactician without knowledge of her true identity as dragon, so it seems his meritocratic view does extend beyond physical strength. I'd say no "shonen" there as well. Some might say the non-dragon/heron laguz leadership application process detracts when it does indeed mimic the social order of some animals in real life. I'm guessing that's what they were going for. In conclusion, the furries definitely set off alarms for me, so while not "shonen", the "anime" is starting to turn up a bit.  

 

:Radiant Dawn :    

I can understand the "shonen" thing a bit more here. Particularly Ike's comments in the epilouge towards Caineghis. And this is the game that gave him the whole "meat" thing, which is very "shonen".  Ike like many other characters is not well fleshed out here, but at least he does get his character development in FE9. My ending comment from FE9 applies here as well. 

 

:New Mystery of the Emblem :     

I skipped Shadow Dragon because it largely identical to FE1. So this is where the avatar thing really kicked in. I don't need to go on about Kris, but I will say that he is not the first of his kind.  

 

:Awakening : 

This game is the second implement of the modern format. It's got all of your favorites, avatar worship, each characters having an anime trope, Outrealm shenanigans,fanservice (beach episode, uh) etc...  Most people are familiar with the issues but I've noticed people lightening up on it a bit in favor of hating Fates when they're nearly identical, particularly Birthright. What more is there to say? 

 

:Fates: 

Everyone's favorite. The land with no name, featuring  face petting,face blowing?, and bare assed knights. Fates is the most blatant example of  "anime", but many people falsely attribute that to Corrin, who's no different from 90% of FE protagonists.  

 

 

:Echoes:  

This game's main problem is that under its fantastic presentation, it's still Gaiden. The "anime" is toned done, but that's just because it's Gaiden.

 

 

I wanted to include Warriors in but my opinion wouldn't mean much considering I haven't actually played it, but from what I've seen..... That game takes the number one spot for "anime". I couldn't even sit through it.

So again, what exactly does "anime" mean to you? Do you feel IS is intentionally trying to appeal to that audience?

Edited by Køkø

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I always thought that all the FE games were "anime", but not in terms of tropes or anything like that, but due to them having that "anime" art style a.k.a. Japanese cartoon/comic style. I was also under the impression that all FE games fell into that "anime" stigma due to the art style (like most games with "anime" art), except that it has gotten worse due to recent games (For the reasons you listed).

Anyways, IS probably *is* intentionally trying to appeal to that more... "out there" kind of anime fans because they know it'll sell well. If they can profit from it, then why not? Personally, I don't really care as long as the game is enjoyable. Although the more fanservice-y stuff can get in the way, I find it fine as long as they keep it tamed and not bloody everywhere.

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People are still gonna thinks it's dweeby for being a fantasy videogame that doesn't have 3-D senseless hack and slash fighting, but I don't really care what they think at all.

I'm gonna state what I think is meant by the type of usage of "anime" here. I guess it's about having a main protagonist that's very cheerful, flawless and the plot bends for them (that's just a minor piece of being "anime" though). It also typically has a variety of characters constricted into certain personas and archetypes (though archetypes in FE aren't the traditional archetypes, they're more of Fire Emblem's own character archetypes). It's also the way a story just casually tries to include every generic and typical aspect of whatever genre of fiction it is. It's also usually too cheerful during cheerful moments, and really drastically sad during tragic moments that the sadness comes across as meaningless.

If we go by this definition, then I would say Awakening is the most "anime" (though not anywhere close to straight up "anime"), and Fates is just bad writing all across the board. Fates doesn't even deserve "anime" status. That's pretty much all I can claim for now.

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2 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

I always thought that all the FE games were "anime", but not in terms of tropes or anything like that, but due to them having that "anime" art style a.k.a. Japanese cartoon/comic style. I was also under the impression that all FE games fell into that "anime" stigma due to the art style (like most games with "anime" art), except that it has gotten worse due to recent games (For the reasons you listed).

Anyways, IS probably *is* intentionally trying to appeal to that more... "out there" kind of anime fans because they know it'll sell well. If they can profit from it, then why not? Personally, I don't really care as long as the game is enjoyable. Although the more fanservice-y stuff can get in the way, I find it fine as long as they keep it tamed and not bloody everywhere.

Pretty much this. What do you expect from a series where rainbow technicolor hair and eyes are a thing?

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I think things get too "anime" only if the tropes feel more prevalent than actual writing and characters. FE13 and 14 were OK with the characters most of the time, but they definitely felt bad at first impression and it doesn't help that you have to dig through 50 supports to see why they are the way they are. On the story end, both Fates and Awakening have way too much "power of friendship" for my taste. The avatar thing CAN be done right, but FE12, 13, and 14 do it in the most nauseating way to me where they think the player must be treated as a god by good guys and like the devil by bad guys. Add facepetting and really cringy waifu type stuff and you get a game I feel I shouldn't play in public. I don't hate any of the games, but I just don't want this shift in tone and appearance for a series that never really had it before (bar FE7 where you can just not have the avatar in Eliwood and Hector mode).

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15 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

What do you expect from a series where rainbow technicolor hair and eyes are a thing?

I don't think unnatural hair colors are necessarily "anime". The older games pulled it off just fine. 

4 minutes ago, familyplayer said:

I think things get too "anime" only if the tropes feel more prevalent than actual writing and characters. FE13 and 14 were OK with the characters most of the time, but they definitely felt bad at first impression and it doesn't help that you have to dig through 50 supports to see why they are the way they are. On the story end, both Fates and Awakening have way too much "power of friendship" for my taste. The avatar thing CAN be done right, but FE12, 13, and 14 do it in the most nauseating way to me where they think the player must be treated as a god by good guys and like the devil by bad guys. Add facepetting and really cringy waifu type stuff and you get a game I feel I shouldn't play in public. I don't hate any of the games, but I just don't want this shift in tone and appearance for a series that never really had it before (bar FE7 where you can just not have the avatar in Eliwood and Hector mode).

Agreed. Oddly, Fates' cast is one of my favorites, it's just the writers gave them all a "thing" that gets repeated over and over and over.

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I'd say OG Gaiden is a bit anime in its god-killing aspect. Many JRPGs say organized religion is evil and others yet say religion is something humanity should evolve to no longer need.

And Rudolf's plan- unite the world via force to defeat a true evil, or let someone able to defeat me do it- finds a copy in Bian Zoldark of Super Robot Wars. I've only played the Original Generation games, but assuming his ideological plans were the exact same in 2nd Super Wars, published in 1991, a year before FE Gaiden, then Rudolf must be anime, because SRW is totally anime.

 

As for Genealogy, its character designs, so it is said, is derived from anime of the time (somebody else can do the side by side FE4-period anime image comparisons). Also, it is outright stated that Genealogy's two generations was half derived from horse racing, half from dating sims, and dating sims are anime-ish.

 

FE10- Again, godslaying is anime. 

 

32 minutes ago, Køkø said:

people falsely attribute that to Corrin, who's no different from 90% of FE protagonists

That might be going a bit far, but yes, Marth, Alm, Seliph, Roy are all more or less of a feather. Ike, Chrom, Sigurd and Ephraim, if you ignore their greater gruffness, are sadly rather similar to the Perfect Pretty Boys as well. Leif, Hector and Eliwood possibly alone among the men avoids coming into contact with any form of perfection, and HE only don't because they need the Tactician to bail them out.

 

34 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Granted, I don't see much "anime" here, with the only immediate thing I can think of is Guy

How is Ninian Special Amnesiac Mystery Fragile Girl, not anime? And what of Florina, "Miss Eek Men Scare Me! Lynnnnnn!"?

 

41 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Roy is a "chosen one", but other than his age and hair, he doesn't ping my "anime" radar. It's nice to see a lord who's his own tactician as well. With that being said, I don't really see anything noteworthy but if you do, let me know The same can not be said for it's sister adaption, Hasha no Tsurugi however. Look at this dude.  

latest?cb=20090908085446 

Gosh that looks bad, and generic FE lord blue!

Also, Roy was originally going to be more openly anime in his design.

https://serenesforest.net/2016/02/06/making-of-binding-blade/#more-31166

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At least Fire Emblem can use the "Medieval Fantasy" excuse for the way characters look, unlike some other series that I'm really fond of... Compared to that, Fire Emblem is a four out of ten at best.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Many JRPGs say organized religion is evil and others yet say religion is something humanity should evolve to no longer need.

I understand this. Never looked at Gaiden like that before 

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

And Rudolf's plan- unite the world via force to defeat a true evil, or let someone able to defeat me do it- finds a copy in Bian Zoldark of Super Robot Wars. I've only played the Original Generation games, but assuming his ideological plans were the exact same in 2nd Super Wars, published in 1991, a year before FE Gaiden, then Rudolf must be anime, because SRW is totally anime.

Nice to know where that might have came from. Kaga does admit to taking inspiration from other works on his blog, so this could be true. 

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

 

As for Genealogy, its character designs, so it is said, is derived from anime of the time (somebody else can do the side by side FE4-period anime image comparisons). Also, it is outright stated that Genealogy's two generations was half derived from horse racing, half from dating sims, and dating sims are anime-ish.

This is why I wanted to know what "anime" exactly means. I wouldn't immediately question a games status as "anime" based off of an artstyle alone, unless they have those MASSIVE eyes.  In regards to the romantic aspect, there's a huge difference between character-character romance and avatar-character romance. It's way less cringy with the former, and it's actually tied heavily into the plot unlike the games that come after it.  

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

FE10- Again, godslaying is anime. 

I'd agree with this more if we actually saw Ashera's influence. She's practically non-existent until Part 4 of RD. This doesn't feel like a dismantling of ideas or tradition, she's just the thing that forces your playable characters to work together. 

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

 

How is Ninian Special Amnesiac Mystery Fragile Girl, not anime? And what of Florina, "Miss Eek Men Scare Me! Lynnnnnn!"?

Are these things? I wonder if Florina's fear of men is more than just a quirk.... Perhaps there's something darker? 

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm so glad they opted out of that.

Edited by Køkø

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In my view, Anime is just a term for Japanese animation, no more, no less. Sure, there are tropes and connotations attributed to Anime, like shonen protagonists, overly long action sequences, and fanservice, but it's the same for "Cartoons." When you think cartoons, you think zany slapstick humor, weird and wonderful sound effects, and even orchestral soundtracks. Still, Batman: The Animated Series is as much of a cartoon as much as Hello Kitty's Paradise is an anime. So, no, Fire Emblem isn't "anime." It's a Japanese Video Game series.

I mean, I totally agree that it has plenty of Anime tropes in later titles. Especially the second listed one.

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9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I'd agree with this more if we actually saw Ashera's influence. She's practically non-existent until Part 4 of RD. This doesn't feel like a dismantling of ideas or tradition, she's just the thing that forces your playable characters to work together. 

Are these things? I wonder if Florina's fear of men is more than just a quirk.... Perhaps there's something darker? 

1

To add onto that, FE2/15 and FE10 both have one of the gods help you. In addition, the bonus ending scene from FE10, iirc, shows her come back as a combined true form.

As for Florina, I believe it isn't anything like that. She's just timid with everyone and especially men.

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Fire Emblem has always been anime, no matter how you look at it. It's just, as of late, people seem to use the the word "anime" in a negative way, like "oh, this game is too anime". Does it use tropes that have more presence in Japanese media? Yes......because that's where it's from.

51 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Gosh that looks bad, and generic FE lord blue

Al's design is much better in the actual manga and Cipher does his design justice. He's also one of the series' better written Lords too.

 

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14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Fire Emblem has always been anime, no matter how you look at it. It's just, as of late, people seem to use the the word "anime" in a negative way, like "oh, this game is too anime". Does it use tropes that have more presence in Japanese media? Yes......because that's where it's from.

Al's design is much better in the actual manga and Cipher does his design justice. He's also one of the series' better written Lords too.

 

I said in the other thread that it's more "lowest common denominator" than "anime".

I agree that calling it "anime" is just another way of calling it "bad". However, while Fire Emblem being Japanese, and obviously being influenced by other Japanese media including anime, the more recent FE games have been pulling from the parts of anime that most people who aren't into anime tend to hate about anime. Hence why it's just boiled down to "anime".

Even as somebody who does like anime, the places Fire Emblem is going is the type of shit that keeps me from ever saying "Oh yeah, I like anime" in public. It's just downright embarrassing in a lot of ways. And when it comes to Fire Emblem, I'd probably never feel embarrassed playing any of the GBA FEs in a public setting. I'd probably feel embarrassed playing Fates in public, even though I like Fates(Conquest, at least) more than Binding Blade and Sacred Stones.

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23 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Fire Emblem has always been anime, no matter how you look at it. It's just, as of late, people seem to use the the word "anime" in a negative way, like "oh, this game is too anime". Does it use tropes that have more presence in Japanese media? Yes......because that's where it's from.

 

We must make a distinction between anime and "anime". Technically, any cartoon is anime because it's just the Japanese word for animation. Those tropes we think about when we say "anime" are unique, and are not omnipresent in the media whether in literal sense or in the notion of anime being exclusively Japanese cartoons. The problem is, what do we call it? Is there a true name for it? "Anime" is too broad and very generalizing but it's all we have now.  

Modern FE gets flack because it does possess tropes that the older games lack.

 

Edited by Køkø

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Lol, I didn't know people were so self-conscious about this kind of thing.

FE4 is very much "anime", it's just not modern. Anime in general had different trends every decade, and similarly dark stories were definitely present in manga and anime at the time of FE4's release, which was 1996 (hell, Evangelion came out a year before lol). It's similar in tone to many 80s and 90s anime/manga. It lacked any moe stuff because it was just starting to creep in in the 90s, and the boom that arguably gave birth to modern anime trends came 10 years later.

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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BUT MMAAAARRRSSSS!!!!

and for a serious answer:

all FE's have had some sort of relation to anime, it just seems to be more and more obvious or something like that

 

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54 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I said in the other thread that it's more "lowest common denominator" than "anime".

I agree that calling it "anime" is just another way of calling it "bad". However, while Fire Emblem being Japanese, and obviously being influenced by other Japanese media including anime, the more recent FE games have been pulling from the parts of anime that most people who aren't into anime tend to hate about anime. Hence why it's just boiled down to "anime".

Even as somebody who does like anime, the places Fire Emblem is going is the type of shit that keeps me from ever saying "Oh yeah, I like anime" in public. It's just downright embarrassing in a lot of ways. And when it comes to Fire Emblem, I'd probably never feel embarrassed playing any of the GBA FEs in a public setting. I'd probably feel embarrassed playing Fates in public, even though I like Fates(Conquest, at least) more than Binding Blade and Sacred Stones.

I have to full-heartedly agree with this. The many distinctions of what's "anime" just confuses people in conversation so much that it's really annoying because what one person sees as "anime" going into a conversation may be completely different than someone else's definition of "anime." It's become such a loose word for English speakers, and probably others as well, that it's hard to get points across without being called a hater of anime or not understanding what is and isn't anime. We really need to create some new word to define it or something.

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1 hour ago, Køkø said:

Modern FE gets flack because it does possess tropes that the older games lack.

Yeah, that's because it's the current trend. The older FEs pulled from tropes that were more popular back then. In 10 yeas maybe, when the new popular anime tropes start to show up, FE's gonna pull from those. It's just something unavoidable.

That being said, i do agree that if the game focuses entirely on tropes, then that's when it becomes an issue. I'm not looking for subversion of tropes or anything. FE16 could use all the anime tropes in existence but as long as the actual writing is good, there won't really be an issue.

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11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, that's because it's the current trend. The older FEs pulled from tropes that were more popular back then.

I'm gonna say no to that.

None of the FEs felt like they were pulling from stuff like Love Hina in the 90s and early 00s when harem anime was booming(Compared to... well, now). The Tellius games didn't feel like they were pulling from comedy/slice-of-life Moeblob series that were huge back then. As much as we can say stuff like Evangelion and other dark series were big when Jugdral was being written, there were other series that were outselling stuff in merchandising, and the effects of Evangelion wouldn't be felt until quite a bit later.

It wasn't until Awakening that it feels like they're pulling from what's selling right now. The Otaku-pandering, waifu-baiting stuff that's all over the place right now, from Isekais to just downright bad anime.

Edited by Slumber

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17 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, that's because it's the current trend. The older FEs pulled from tropes that were more popular back then. In 10 yeas maybe, when the new popular anime tropes start to show up, FE's gonna pull from those. It's just something unavoidable.

That being said, i do agree that if the game focuses entirely on tropes, then that's when it becomes an issue. I'm not looking for subversion of tropes or anything. FE16 could use all the anime tropes in existence but as long as the actual writing is good, there won't really be an issue.

Well Slumber took the words out of my mouth. 

In response to the second part, I don't think it's possible to create a good story using all or most anime tropes. I think "anime" is like candy in the sense that it can taste good but it doesn't provide any real substance.  

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I said in the other thread that it's more "lowest common denominator" than "anime".

I agree that calling it "anime" is just another way of calling it "bad". However, while Fire Emblem being Japanese, and obviously being influenced by other Japanese media including anime, the more recent FE games have been pulling from the parts of anime that most people who aren't into anime tend to hate about anime. Hence why it's just boiled down to "anime".

Even as somebody who does like anime, the places Fire Emblem is going is the type of shit that keeps me from ever saying "Oh yeah, I like anime" in public. It's just downright embarrassing in a lot of ways. And when it comes to Fire Emblem, I'd probably never feel embarrassed playing any of the GBA FEs in a public setting. I'd probably feel embarrassed playing Fates in public, even though I like Fates(Conquest, at least) more than Binding Blade and Sacred Stones.

Excellent post. The whole playing in public thing resonates especially well with me, lol.

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I'm gonna say no to that.

None of the FEs felt like they were pulling from stuff like Love Hina in the 90s and early 00s when harem anime was booming(Compared to... well, now). The Tellius games didn't feel like they were pulling from comedy/slice-of-life Moeblob series that were huge back then.

It wasn't until Awakening that it feels like they're pulling from what's selling right now. The Otaku-pandering, waifu-baiting stuff that's all over the place right now, from Isekais to just downright bad anime.

yeah I agree. Honestly the anime industry in general is just a pile of horse crap right now and as the great miyazaki said himself it's because "there are too many otaku in the industry". Seriously there's just way too much pandering in anime now a days to the point where the industry at large has become way too over reliant on it which results in mediocre stories and characters. These creators are drawing their inspirations from tropes without realizing why those tropes or archetypes work in the first place because well people need their waifus and shit. And it seems that the audience doesn't seem to give two sh*ts because "oh tits" or "oh generic tsundere number 227 said baka! oh my god she's so cute which thereby automatically makes her a good character/waifu" ugh it's really annoying. That's not to say there are bad "modern" anime because that would be untrue especially with shows like darling in the franxx, erased, SAO alternative, MHA, konosuba, etc. but on the whole the majority of the stuff out there and what seems to rake in the most cash is sh*t like eromanga, SAO, and asterisk war cause apparently otaku want that f*cking wish fulfillment and will get/give it at the cost of good writing. 

I feel that's the problem with fates taking inspirations from "modern" anime trends because most "modern" anime trends are just blatant otaku pandering garbage in the form of tropes. I mean I love anime and fire emblem so it really hurts me to see the two going in such a direction. Hell I don't mind fanservice so long as it has a sort of reason to be there and isn't just there for no reason other than to pander to the lowest common denominator.

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I think the issue is that people associate a certain stigma with anime-looking art styles that hold a certain number of tropes. Because "Anime" just doesn't mean anything if you think about it deeper than that. Outside of the concept of the Harem/Ecchi genre, most modern anime tropes appear in western media, and have been for decades. For example, I have a friend who refers to the Marvel Cinetmatic Universe as "Live Action Anime" (and that's why she loves it). Like the difference between say a Star Wars film and an arc in Naruto in terms of tropes overlaps quite heavily. That's because story telling concepts and ideas aren't tied in anyway to a certain type of story medium- they exist in all forms of media. And often times, especially in the post internet era, various mediums tend to get heavily inspired from one another. So ultimately after a certain point, everything just simultaneuosly will and won't be "anime" because of how incestuous story telling and inspiration will become. The concept of the Ecchi genre not appear in things more often here in the west largely stems from "American" Puritanism, which generally saturates most of the nations influenced by America and it's close allies. Which unfortunately makes us more generally repressed sexually as a culture to where it's raunchy to see some animated panties land on a dude's face as a gag. And even then, we still do have some hyper sexual (generally R-Rated) comedy films around, such as Deuce Bigalow and American Pie although those tend to be broader ideas in comparison to what people generally consider "ecchi".

Generally speaking, it doesn't matter if something is "anime" or not, because what it actually boils down to is 2 groups of people stigmatizing a Japanese story telling medium into whether or not it's culturally acceptable, like that actually matters. Some of the most meaningless, dangerous, and stupidest things are culturally acceptable, it's an arbitrary standard of popularity and that's fine. Like Young Adult Fiction novels, all of which are very much "anime" but no one is ever calling out the Hunger Games. But within the confines of an actual niche hobby community like fire emblem, it makes no sense to argue over whether it's "anime" or not because we're literally gonna keep playing the games regardless. That's not to say it can't be a fun or interesting conversation. But before we even have such a conversation you'd need to more clearly define a set of tropes and criteria as to what is "anime". Other than terrible cartoons people watch to then argue over who is best girl on reddit all week until the next episode comes out.

Personally I just use the simplest description- "anime" is anything that looks like a Japanese cartoon character. Because if it looks like a Japanese cartoon character, a weeaboo wants to fuck it, 10000% of the time. And since weeaboos are disgusting and counter revolutionary, that's the only reason anyone doesn't like anime.

t. man with anime avatar.

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10 minutes ago, MU woadie said:

Personally I just use the simplest description- "anime" is anything that looks like a Japanese cartoon character. Because if it looks like a Japanese cartoon character, a weeaboo wants to fuck it, 10000% of the time. And since weeaboos are disgusting and counter revolutionary, that's the only reason anyone doesn't like anime.

Rule 34 wants a word with you.  Fetishes aren't limited to Japanese animation.  Neither are people who take their love of something way too far.

---

I flipped a coin regarding whether or not I should  keep this topic open.  In terms of general trends regarding storytelling, characters, and trope rigidity, it's interesting.  In terms of execution, it's terrible, because I feel like you're subtly trying to shit on both anime and Fire Emblem.  Also, the analytical method is flawed - pop culture changed from the time Marth Sans Pants was released to now, so you'd have to analyze entertainment trends that were popular at that time, then apply it to what FE has in general.  Coming-of-age stories have been popular for way longer than shonen anime.

Since the methodology is so off-base, I can't really comment on the conclusions, other than the lack of Shadow Dragon.  The gaiden chapters are completely new content, and even if there isn't a lot to analyze, it's better than skipping over it.

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9 hours ago, Køkø said:

In response to the second part, I don't think it's possible to create a good story using all or most anime tropes. I think "anime" is like candy in the sense that it can taste good but it doesn't provide any real substance.  

On the contrary, i think it is, provided you do something with it. Again, even if you don't subvert the tropes or anything, as long as the tropes don't overshadow the actual writing, i think it's possible to create a good story using all or most anime tropes.

Of course, that's assuming you're writing a story that's meant to be taken seriously. If you're writing a comedy, then you can have tropes take over the world if you want.

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