The Size of Fire Emblem continents

[Jotari]

I once calculated the size or Archanea and from that the size of Valentia using the mountain range in north east Archanea and comparing it to the alps.

The conclusion I came to was that Archanea is about the size of modern day Ukraine and Valentia, modern day France.

I'm here today to bring another experiment, the size of Magvel. I noticed when playing that Eirika's planned route to Rausten would have taken 10 days according to Seth.

So the mission was clear. Find a medieval trade route that takes roughly ten days. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find anything because sailing wasn't super big in medieval times, at least not compared to the Renaissance period after the medieval ages. I did find this handy tool however, which lets one calculate any travel route in the Roman empire.

http://orbis.stanford.edu/

Using it I discovered an open sea voyage from Chartage to Alexnadria takes about fourteen days. Now, obviously, Magvel isn't Roman. We don't know how good their ships are compared to the Romans or how rough the seas are. But taking an amateur guess, I'm going to say it's slightly more difficult as Magvel seems to be an ocean compared to a more sheltered Mediterranean sea (let me stress again this is all amateur deduction). So I feel comfortable saying a fourteen day journey in ancient Mediterranean should be close enough to a ten day journey in Magvel. The distance between the two real world points is 2304 kilometers.

So, measuring the distance based on pixels between the two points on the magvel map, and then converting that kilometers, I get, 112. So 2304km = 112 pixels. Divide 2304 by 112 and we have 20.5714...we'll call it 26. So 1 pixel equals 26 kilometers. Now how many pixels big is the Magvel map? The entire thing fits into a square of 470*294 pixels (the map that I'm using at any rate, the pixels will be different depending on the map but that shouldn't matter so long as the ratios are the same. There's also a lot of sea territory in the square). Multiply them together and we get the total area of Magvel to be 138,180 pixels. Now using of formula of 1 pixel equals 26 kilomers, our final total is 3,592, 680 kilometers squared. Hop on over to the list of countries and territories by area squared (1), find one close to three and a half million and we discover Magvel has a size comparable to that of India (3,287,263km2). India is a bit smaller, but the route I used to get the comparison might have been a bit too long, so it probably balances out close enough. Regardless, Magvel is pretty damn big compared to my guess of Archanea (comparable to Ukraine at 603,500km2). Still smaller than any Earth continent, but there you go.

Now obviously this is far from an accurate way of measuring things. But I think it gives a rough indication of its size. Provided my maths is all right. Someone do feel free to check it as I have very little confidence in myself. Anyway, do you think Magvel feels like it's five to six times bigger than Archanea? How do you feel about the other continents sizes? Can you think of any other times the series has used hard numbers for travel distance that we can use to try and calculate their size? And do you see any glaring mistakes in the method I've used here? Discuss.

And here's something to ponder outside of the real world size. If it would have taken Erikia ten days to sale that sea route, how long would it have taken Ephraim to march an army through Grado? Fighting battles along the way and also including a sea route of about 2/3s that size. If Magvel is as big as India, the game must take place over a pretty significant length of time.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jotari

[Etrurian emperor]

For the most part I just assume most FE continents are roughly the size of Europe since that's where their inspiration comes from. 

I feel the southern part of Archenea would roughly be the size of the Mediterranean since that seems to be its main inspiration with the northern barbarian filled wasteland being about the size of Russia.  But that's all headcanon without actual thought put into it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Not going to try doing any math, but according to Chapter 12's intro in PoR:

Narration
Having narrowly escaped Daein's grasp the Greil Mercenaries are pleased to feel the ocean beneath their feet as they set sail. According to Captain Nasir, the voyage to Begnion will take roughly two months.

So this may provide an idea of Tellius's size. From the west coast of Crimea to the southern coast of Begnion takes two months (find an LP to determine which exact point Ike and co. left from).

Also, PoR and RD, like most FEs, are over with in a year. And in this case, the impression I get is that PoR begins in mid-late Spring, since in Chapter 23- The Great Bridge, this is said:

Ike
Big? Hmm... Yeah, I guess you're right. When we left Crimea, it was spring... The snows were melting, the days were getting longer, and the weather was mild.

Elincia
It's been almost a year since we departed. Only a year, but the distance we've traveled to get here has been long and hard...It feels like many years have passed us by. Yet this is the land where I was born and raised... Ah, my dear, sweet Crimea...How is it that you feel so far away?
 

By the time they arrive in Begnion should be Summer or early Autumn. And they reach Daein during mid-late Autumn or early Winter, I can't say which exactly, because I can imagine winter and all that snowfall you see beginning in Daein much sooner than anywhere on the continent. But the end of PoR seems to be the end of Winter or early Spring.

RD makes it pretty clear as well, Part 1 is Spring due to Jill's line about landslides in Springtime Talrega. Part 2 is probably Summer. Part 3 is also probably Summer to start and definitely Autumn throughout, ending in Winter. Part 4 begins in Winter, and I think would end on the cusp of early Spring, since the final outdoors area which you don't fight in but nonetheless see, shows no snow on the ground, although said location could simply be too far south for snow.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not going to try doing any math, but according to Chapter 12's intro in PoR:

Narration
Having narrowly escaped Daein's grasp the Greil Mercenaries are pleased to feel the ocean beneath their feet as they set sail. According to Captain Nasir, the voyage to Begnion will take roughly two months.

So this may provide an idea of Tellius's size. From the west coast of Crimea to the southern coast of Begnion takes two months (find an LP to determine which exact point Ike and co. left from).

Also, PoR and RD, like most FEs, are over with in a year. And in this case, the impression I get is that PoR begins in mid-late Spring, since in Chapter 23- The Great Bridge, this is said:

Ike
Big? Hmm... Yeah, I guess you're right. When we left Crimea, it was spring... The snows were melting, the days were getting longer, and the weather was mild.

Elincia
It's been almost a year since we departed. Only a year, but the distance we've traveled to get here has been long and hard...It feels like many years have passed us by. Yet this is the land where I was born and raised... Ah, my dear, sweet Crimea...How is it that you feel so far away?
 

By the time they arrive in Begnion should be Summer or early Autumn. And they reach Daein during mid-late Autumn or early Winter, I can't say which exactly, because I can imagine winter and all that snowfall you see beginning in Daein much sooner than anywhere on the continent. But the end of PoR seems to be the end of Winter or early Spring.

RD makes it pretty clear as well, Part 1 is Spring due to Jill's line about landslides in Springtime Talrega. Part 2 is probably Summer. Part 3 is also probably Summer to start and definitely Autumn throughout, ending in Winter. Part 4 begins in Winter, and I think would end on the cusp of early Spring, since the final outdoors area which you don't fight in but nonetheless see, shows no snow on the ground, although said location could simply be too far south for snow.

I did suspect there was a reference for the sea voyage in Path of Radiance. I'll see if I can find anything for that. Might be harder though since it's a longer coastal trip.

I think the area where the Laguz and Beorc are seen fighting in the CG cutscene is in Daein both when the judgement strikes and ends, showing snow in both, which means it's probably winter throughout and the Begnion capital is just too far south.

[Acacia Sgt]

I have to disagree with the notion that Archanea is only about the size of Ukraine.

First of all, stating the northeast mountains are the same length as the Alps is too much of an assumption, even if their heights are comparable. Then go with that same scale for the rest of the continent. Besides, the Archanean mountains could be bigger, as New Mystery's Ch13 states:

Quote

Five thousand meters... No, perhaps even higher than that.

There's also the length of time New Mystery takes place. As stated in Ch19:

Quote

Nearly one year has passed since the Grustian expedition...

Even if we assume that the battles took place in a few days, perhaps a week or so whenever a building is sieged and then stormed in. Marth's journey was

-From Altea to Grust by ship.

-From Grust to Macedon by ship.

-Head a little into Macedon then back to the coast by foot.

-Return to Grust by ship.

-North to the Fane of Raman by foot.

-Northeast into Khadein by foot.

-North into Marmotod Desert by foot.

-East and then northeast through Anri's Way to the Ice Dragon Temple by foot.

-Warped back to Altea.

-Head east to Gra.

-Head east into Aurelis by ship.

-South to the Millenial Court by foot.

All within the span of a year. That's too much for a continent that's only as big as Ukraine. He couldn't have taken too much time fighting and the like.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I have to disagree with the notion that Archanea is only about the size of Ukraine.

First of all, stating the northeast mountains are the same length as the Alps is too much of an assumption, even if their heights are comparable. Then go with that same scale for the rest of the continent. Besides, the Archanean mountains could be bigger, as New Mystery's Ch13 states:

There's also the length of time New Mystery takes place. As stated in Ch19:

Even if we assume that the battles took place in a few days, perhaps a week or so whenever a building is sieged and then stormed in. Marth's journey was

-From Altea to Grust by ship.

-From Grust to Macedon by ship.

-Head a little into Macedon then back to the coast by foot.

-Return to Grust by ship.

-North to the Fane of Raman by foot.

-Northeast into Khadein by foot.

-North into Marmotod Desert by foot.

-East and then northeast through Anri's Way to the Ice Dragon Temple by foot.

-Warped back to Altea.

-Head east to Gra.

-Head east into Aurelis by ship.

-South to the Millenial Court by foot.

All within the span of a year. That's too much for a continent that's only as big as Ukraine. He couldn't have taken too much time fighting and the like.

You're not wrong that it's a flimsy thing to base it on (but if there's anything better, then let me know). I would dispute that it's too much time though. In fact, the fact that Marth goes to so many places within a year is precisely why I think Archanea can't be that big. Walking around the circumference of Ukraine would take a few months, let along marching an entire army. Marth manages to visit a hella of a lot of places in a comparatively short amount of time. Consider the campaign of Alexander the Great

That's a distance about twice as vast as modern day Ukraine and that took him almost ten years to complete.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're not wrong that it's a flimsy thing to base it on (but if there's anything better, then show me). I would dispute that it's too much time though. In fact, the fact that Marth goes to so many places within a year is precisely why I think Archanea can't be that big. Walking around the circumference of Ukraine would take a few months, let along marching an entire army. Marth manages to visit a hella of a lot of places in a comparatively short amount of time.

Still too much time for that.

Circumference of Ukraine: 4558 KM, which about 2832 miles. According to Google Maps:

957 hours to walk 2914 miles at average walking speed (3-4 miles per hour). And taking into account the US's topography I guess. 957 hours is shy of 40 days. Even if that's non-stop walking, which means we'd need to add time spent sleeping or other kinds of resting... I think that's still too small. Roughly Forty days to walk from SF to NYC. A little under that for the circumference of Ukraine.

That's my reasoning, at least, that Archanea has to be much bigger.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Still too much time for that.

Circumference of Ukraine: 4558 KM, which about 2832 miles. According to Google Maps:

957 hours to walk 2914 miles at average walking speed (3 miles per hour). And taking into account the US's topography I guess. 957 hours is shy of 40 days. Even if that's non-stop walking, which means we'd need to add time spent sleeping or other kinds of resting... I think that's still too small. Roughly Forty days to walk from SF to KY. A little under that for the circumference of Ukraine.

That's my reasoning, at least, that Archanea has to be much bigger.

957 hours is 40 days by dividing 957 by 24. Do you think you could walk non stop for 957 hours without sleep or rest? You'd have to at least double that to account for basic human needs, and walking 12 hours on end for almost three months is a feet that only the most able bodied people would be able to accomplish, if it's even humanly possible. A coast to coast USA walk is estimated to be 280 days based on this first article I googled. http://www.walkingthestates.com/faq.asp Which is nine months of constant walking (a full 12 with rest days included).

Then you need to factor in the fact that Marth wasn't travelling alone and wasn't walking the country end to end. He was visiting many places and even had to backtrack at times (and of course fight battles).

Of course this is all assuming an Arcanean year equates to an Earth year.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

957 hours is 40 days by dividing 957 by 24. Do you think you could walk non stop for 957 hours without sleep or rest? You'd have to at least double that to account for basic human needs, and walking 12 hours on end for almost three months is a feet that only the most able bodied people would be able to accomplish, if it's even humanly possible. Then you need to factor in the fact that Marth wasn't travelling alone and wasn't walking the country end to end. He was visiting many places and even had to backtrack at times.

960 hours is 40 days. Hence 957 being shy of 40.

Do remember there are parts of the trip done by ship. Never for too long, but they're there. That's why I mentioned adding time for sleep and all that. Visit many places doesn't really tells us much since we don't know how long he stays at one place before they begin marching again.

Ultimately, we have too few info of the composition of Marth's army to know how often they could move per day, how many times they had to stop to rest or resupply (the latter isn't going to happen often between Khadein and the Ice Dragon Temple, though, since Marth mostly visited untamed land). For all we know, most of the march was done on horseback since people could ride with those that had horses, dismounting only for when it was time to fight. Too many factors to tell, I'd say.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Do remember there are parts of the trip done by ship. Never for too long, but they're there. That's why I mentioned adding time for sleep and all that. Visit many places doesn't really tells us much since we don't know how long he stays at one place before they begin marching again.

Ultimately, we have too few info of the composition of Marth's army to know how often they could move per day, how many times they had to stop to rest or resupply (the latter isn't going to happen often between Khadein and the Ice Dragon Temple, though, since Marth mostly visited untamed land). For all we know, most of the march was done on horseback since people could ride with those that had horses, dismounting only for when it was time to fight. Too many factors to tell, I'd say.

Everyone having horses wouldn't really solve everything, as they'd still be limited by how fast a supply convoy can move. Ultimately you're right. Too few details to determine. That's why I tried to find some other way of determining it. If Marth's army is just the seventy or so units he has by the end of the game and they were all flying or riding horse back, or if his army is like the utterly ridiculous 1 million men Whalhart was said to have, then there's a massive difference in how quickly they'd be able to travel. In either case though, I think he manages to visit a lot of the continent in just a year.

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Everyone having horses wouldn't really solve everything, as they'd still be limited by how fast a supply convoy can move. Ultimately you're right. Too few details to determine. That's why I tried to find some other way of determining it. If Marth's army is just the seventy or so units he has by the end of the game and they were all flying or riding horse back, or if his army is like the utterly ridiculous 1 million men Whalhart was said to have, then there's a massive difference in how quickly they'd be able to travel. In either case though, I think he manages to visit a lot of the continent in just a year.

Looking up, depending up on how much weight the wagons of the supply convo are, it's around 20-30 miles in 8 hours. So only a little slower than a human walking. The difference wouldn't be that big. Though again, it all depends on how much weight the wagons would be, how fit the horses are, and all that.

Oh certainly, New Mystery takes place across most of the continent. The one-year trip covers almost all but the trip to Dohl. Biggest stretch is from Khadein to the Ice Dragon Temple. Except for traveling north to Thabes, Marth almost traveled from one end of Archanea to the other. Still hard to say an exact time here.

Regardless, I still stand the continent is bigger than Ukraine. Perhaps not continental-USA big or perhaps it does, but it's at least much bigger than your estimation.

[Kaze's favourite pillow]

They look smaller than any FE4 map.