How much time shenanigans do you want/expect in Three Houses?

[Thane]

Hello chaps.

As you probably know already, in the second trailer, after being struck by the bandit Kostas, Sothis appears before Byleth in a vision and seemingly helps them turn back time to avoid any injury.

While there are many big questions as to the who, the how and the why that are difficult to answer right now unless you fancy speculating about the meaning of Byleth and Sothis' names, what we can discuss is the potential of time travel and its eventual impact on the plot.

One would think that the power to bend the laws of reality on a whim would take center stage in the story, but so far we don't have many details about the limitations of Byleth/Sothis' power. Not only that, Echoes has also shown us that time traveling can be nothing more than a gameplay mechanic with some minor lip service explaining it. Could this mean that this'll just be Three Houses' version of Mila's Turnwheel, or is it something more?

Personally, I'm expecting the time thing to stay in the background until near the endgame. Similar to Persona 3-5, we've (likely) got a silent avatar who can interact with people regular blokes are not even aware of, who help them hone their powers. Just like the Velvet Room in Persona, I expect Sothis' guidance to mainly be a background thing even if Sothis herself will be important.

That is, until the climax.

Unlike Echoes, Three Houses is built from the ground up with this concept in mind, and so it would be silly not to use it somehow. Since the school and the church seem to be the main focus thus far and we've no reason to suspect diverging timelines or anything of the sort, one could assume that this'll be an endgame thing. So, what'll it be?

I'll tell you, my dear fellows: the villain will win, and then Byleth will unlock all/more of his power and go back further than he could before. Does Sothis sacrifice herself? Does Byleth run out of steam at the end and collapse due to the strain this puts on him? All unknowns, but this'll give Byleth just enough time to stop the villain from getting the final McGuffin they require, thwarting their plans. If we go even further back, before any reason to suspect the villain even existed, we might get one of those confrontation scenes where the villain goes "B-Baka na! How do you know?!"

Basically, we'll play the role of Lucina with a feature from Echoes. At least, that's what I'm expecting right now, but I'm well aware that we've got almost no info on this and that my theory is one tweet away from being disproven.

So, what do you all think?

[Rose482]

I think what I wonder about the most is HOW Byleth even got such powers to begin with? Like whenever we had a lord have a power like that, it always came back too their birth, so it makes me wonder who his mother is.....

 

And I'm not sure how much impact I want this power to have on the story, like I'm pretty sure the whole story won't be about this power, but I also won't like if it become irreverent, so I hope they balance things out there. 

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Rose482 said:

I think what I wonder about the most is HOW Byleth even got such powers to begin with? Like whenever we had a lord have a power like that, it always came back too their birth, so it makes me wonder who his mother is.....

Poor Jeralt, he's not even had a line yet people speculate he'll die immediately and not even be Byleth's real father, or at least their important parent.

As for Byleth's mother, well, their name has demonic connotations, wasn't that so? We've got the goddess Seiros, and Sothis who has the Greek name of an Egyptian deity (who I read in passing was referred to as a mother and a nurse, so maybe she's the real Seiros, who knows), so perhaps we'll have demons as well which could've grante Byleth this power. Of course that would make Sothis guiding Byleth a bit odd, perhaps.

[Cysx]

The  time traveling stuff will only be used for turnwheel shenanigans.

... as well as rewinding to play each of the three school arcs back to back(in the order of our choice) before the grand finale where everyone joins up. The cutting point probably being when all three of the main protagonists are about to fight one another to the death.

That's my probably incorrect hot take of the day. N-no it's not inspired by Shining Force III I don't know what you're talking about.

 

4 minutes ago, Thane said:

As for Byleth's mother, well, their name has demonic connotations, wasn't that so?

That might be a dumb thing to ask, but does Fire Emblem have an history of using names in ways that accurately reflect on the source material?

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Cysx said:

... as well as rewinding to play each of the three school arcs back to back(in the order of our choice) before the grand finale where everyone joins up. The cutting point probably being when all three of the main protagonists are about to fight one another to the death.

 

1 minute ago, Cysx said:

That might be a dumb thing to ask, but does Fire Emblem have an history of using names in ways that accurately reflect on the source material?

That's a good question. I genuinely don't know; the closest thing I can think of where a lot of mythological names is in Heroes, and they seem to reflect certain things better than others, although my Norse mythology knowledge is not the best. There's also Genealogy, where I think Deirdre's name was very fitting for the character; destined to bring sorrow to her people, especially the men, I believe it was.

[Cysx]

4 minutes ago, Thane said:

No worries, just because I say it shouldn't make it happen for real. If I had this kind of powers, I'd probably use it to help the poor and miserable throughout the world in some way or another as well as get me a ton of cookiiiiiiiiies

6 minutes ago, Thane said:

That's a good question. I genuinely don't know; the closest thing I can think of where a lot of mythological names is in Heroes, and they seem to reflect certain things better than others, although my Norse mythology knowledge is not the best. There's also Genealogy, where I think Deirdre's name was very fitting for the character; destined to bring sorrow to her people, especially the men, I believe it was.

Unfortunately this isn't exactly my field of expertise either. The only ones I'm aware of, Sieglinde and Siegmund, can only be roughly linked to Ephraim and Eirika because they are twins. They were not separated at birth, and any romance between the two is implied at best., which largely leaves it up to interpretation.

Heroes did jump head first into referential naming(accurate or not, I definitely couldn't say myself), but I wonder if it's that relevant when it comes to Three Houses, since from my understanding the teams aren't the same.

[vanguard333]

I hope that it is explored and it has an impact on the story, but at the same time, I don't want it to be too important.

I don't want Byleth's foresight to be as integral as Shulk's foresight, but I definitely want it to be more important than Mila's Turnwheel or Corrin's transforming into a dragon. With the latter two, we saw a gameplay element be introduced by the story only for the story to forget that ability or item even exists after its introduction's over. It should definitely be more relevant than that. 

I think, as long as it appears wherever it would come in handy for the story, but the antagonists can still be a physical threat the main character, I'll be happy. 

One thing I think would be hilarious would be a classroom cinematic where Byleth, thanks to his foresight, sees two students are about to start talking in class, so Byleth opens their lecture by saying, "Before we start: Mark, Dylan, whatever it is you two are going to say to each other; unless it's a question for the teacher, don't say it. …Now, for today's class […]"

[Guest LSM]

2 hours ago, Cysx said:

The  time traveling stuff will only be used for turnwheel shenanigans.

... as well as rewinding to play each of the three school arcs back to back(in the order of our choice) before the grand finale where everyone joins up. The cutting point probably being when all three of the main protagonists are about to fight one another to the death.

I wish so much that this actually happens, but I don't think it will. (Not the Mila's turnwheel-esque power, I think that's welcomely a lock.) Doing all three houses before combining for a fourth arc would be so great. I tend to love the early-to-mid game, and generally have to force myself a bit through the end. So I've often wished for a game that didn't bother trying to ramp up the "epicness" and just stayed with smaller, well-constructed levels throughout it's story. If three fourths of the game were like this, I'd be in heaven.

But I think people having to thrice start at level 1 with their characters would not go over as well with others as it would with me. So I'm sadly skeptical of it happening.

(Maybe if you had the option to go back and do the other houses yourself, or just progress with their characters having been generically levelled and promoted? For the vast majority of people who like a steady progression of difficulty that might work...)

[Cysx]

6 minutes ago, Guest LSM said:

But I think people having to thrice start at level 1 with their characters would not go over as well with others as it would with me. So I'm sadly skeptical of it happening.

That's pretty much the issue, yes. I think the game would also face heavy criticism for being lazy, rehashed and repetitive. As you said there's probably a way to make it work when it comes to gameplay, but there's no avoiding some repetition in terms of themes. It would also guarantee that we'd never really get to leave the academy pretty much, which  many are still hoping won't be the case.

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Thane said:

As you probably know already, in the second trailer, after being struck by the bandit Kostas, Sothis appears before Byleth in a vision and seemingly helps them turn back time to avoid any injury.

I honestly forgot about that part of the trailer. I think it's safe to say that this will be the "Mila's Turnwheel" of the game though whether or not it actually ends up being relevant to the plot is a different matter. In Echoes, the Turnwheel showed Alm that one vision of the future and that was it.

....And i just rewatched the trailer after i typed that. I think we're missing a little bit of context. The scene starts right here

and considering we don't see when the bandit strikes Byleth in the first place, it's possible that this isn't Byleth rewinding time but rather seeing a vision of the future and reacting to it. Hmm, i wonder how that would work as a gameplay mechanic. The opposite of the Turnwheel. Instead of rewinding actions, you're able to see a potential outcome of what might happen if you do this or that during a chapter. Of course, that mechanic will be beyond broken if they give it the 10+ uses that Echoes did with it's Turnwheel.

 

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

The opposite of the Turnwheel.

That could be interesting, but given that Byleth enters Sothis' little dreamscape while holding the injured pose, I'm not so certain.

Of course, they could be getting the vision for the first time and react prematurely by standing like that, in which case the premonition idea works, but I find it more likely that Byleth and Sothis rewind time somehow.

[NinjaMonkey]

None would be nice.

[Hawkwing]

I think Byleth has foresight rather than time travel powers. That's the impression I got from the trailer, and it's also technically what Mila's turnwheel did (the "seeing into the future" part, even if it only affected the games plot once). I expect that it wears Byleth out early on, and he can only see so far into the future, so it will excuse why it can only be used in battle and why it has a limit (with it increasing after certain parts of the story by Byleth getting better/used to using it).

It would be neat to see it apply to the story every now and again in places where it makes sense. Byleth may not be able to predict large scale strategic moves, but we will be able to see if their current ally will backstab them or if they've almost walked into an ambush. They might even have some gameplay-story integration by you having less uses on the maps where that happens, or maybe even the choice whether to start the map in a worse spot but have all your uses of foresight, or spend a few to put you in a better position.

Also, if the person/being that gave you the powers turns out to be the bad guy, they may remove it when you fight them, making the battle even more difficult.

[Hanes]

I don't want a story to be convoluted because of time travel and eventually contradict itself, so I don't like it, but having a Mila's turnwheel would be nice.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Ha, I mean, we didn't JUST have awakening, that was six years ago for anybody here speaking English. Though the question of when we last saw time travel in the plot is interesting. Awakening is a yes since Lucina is a part of the story regardless of how many babies you recruit. Fates is a maybe, depending on whether you count Outrealm Brat chapters as a vital part of the plot since they will never be referenced in non-paralogue or non-DLC chapters. Echoes has a scene where the Turnwheel is handed to Alm and alludes to its purpose, but is then never mentioned again despite potentially being a regular gameplay element.

I'll say yes to both expecting and wanting "some" time travel. I know time travel's got a negative reputation in this series, but you can't tell me it's something people actually dislike on average when so many popular tv shows, movies, books, and video games dabble in the concept. I'm not a writer myself, but I can see the suggestion of "a little time travel" being the worst potential option, since I notice a lot of those popular stories (Back to the Future, Doctor Who, Chrono Trigger) make time travel THE core element of the story while other stories that just dabble in the concept like, say, Star Trek are lambasted for it when it shows up as a plot device. All you need to do is establish why the characters can travel through time, and establish some sensible limitations on that power so that we're not constantly asking "why don't they rewind?"

Edited March 9, 2019 by Glennstavos

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, Thane said:

That could be interesting, but given that Byleth enters Sothis' little dreamscape while holding the injured pose, I'm not so certain.

Of course, they could be getting the vision for the first time and react prematurely by standing like that, in which case the premonition idea works, but I find it more likely that Byleth and Sothis rewind time somehow.

Eh, we only see Byleth in that post for like a split second and we also don't have any context on it so it could be either possibility or something else entirely. I do wonder if it'll lend itself to giving Byleth more time manipulation powers though. No outright time travel but maybe he gets foresight and rewind and other small time powers (example: time stop) as the story goes on. How this would be integrated gameplay wise is tricky though, especially since it can very easily be broken.

Idk, i'm just thinking here. Byleth has some form of time manipulation but that's all we know.

[Thane]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

we only see Byleth in that post for like a split second

He stands still like that for several seconds, and we see it leading to him seeing Sothis presumably for the first time.

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

we also don't have any context

Do you mean besides the axe in the back?

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Byleth has some form of time manipulation but that's all we know.

Yupp, hence this topic.

[Armagon]

16 minutes ago, Thane said:

Do you mean besides the axe in the back?

Well i mean, Scene 1 (where Byleth supposedly meets Sothis) is shown in the introductory segment of the trailer while Scene 2 (the axe in his back) is shown at the end. It's very likely the two scenes are directly connected but without proper context, we wouldn't know. It's always possible that Scene 2 takes place after Byleth learns of the time ability and the injury in Scene 1 is the result of a different thing altogether.

Again, i'm just speculating here. I'm like 95% sure that your interpretation is the correct one, i'm simply considering other possibilities.

[Thane]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Scene 1 (where Byleth supposedly meets Sothis) is shown in the introductory segment of the trailer while Scene 2 (the axe in his back) is shown at the end.

The narrator explicitly says you come to the monestary around the same time as Byleth awakes that power. Kostas is the one attacking Byleth, who's a very low level boss judging by the playable characters' level at that point. I also find it odd that Byleth would stand in that strange pose twice.

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Again, i'm just speculating here.

Same here, hence the poll; no one here has all the answers. I'm not saying Byleth's power has to be turning back the time (I think it is, but as you can see in the poll, I included an option where you can say that you don't believe Byleth/Sothis will have that poer at all) and it could very well be the power of foresight like you suggested before. However, judging by the trailer, I find it very unlikely that the two times we see Byleth standing in that pose would be from two different points in the story.

[Interdimensional Observer]

So they're already hinting at a little something of at least foresight, possibly more?

Eh, FE should keep down to earth, I'm hoping the scope of such things is limited.

[Ertrick36]

At minimum, I expect we'll get Mila's Turnwheel 2.0.

If it's more than that and has a greater role in the story, I just hope it doesn't end up being used as a deus ex machina.  I mean, it could be used to prevent the death of our protagonist, but it ought to come at a price/with consequences.

In Dragon Ball Z, Trunks traveling back in time resulted in threats greater than the androids he originally set out to destroy (including more powerful versions of said androids).  In Fire Emblem Awakening, a lot of deaths Lucina set out to prevent happened anyway.  In the Prince of Persia (the PS2 games, anyway), the prince winds up getting chased by a monster for all the time manipulation he did, and the erasure of the Sands of Time that resulted from him taking its creator into the future royally screwed up the timeline.  And in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Link had to give up his title of hero (or rather, the fame that came along with it) in the end so that he could ultimately prevent Ganondorf's reign of terror in the first place.

All forms of media that do time manipulation correctly always give the heroes consequences for their actions.  Examples of media that do it poorly are obviously Fates with its hyperbolic time realms (I don't need to keep explaining this one), and Dragon Ball's Resurrection of F, where Whis just simply rewinds time after Frieza blows up Earth.  Time manipulation used to shoe-horn elements into a piece of work or to entirely undo conflicts is time manipulation used poorly.

Basically, if it does have more of an impact on the story, there should be consequences that come as a result from using it, or it shouldn't be able to fix things entirely.  I don't care so much about how much involvement it has but rather how exactly it'll impact the story, particularly any conflicts that arise.

[Armchair General]

Foresight wouldn't work in regular gameplay, why do we need an reminder to learn how the RNG works?

[Tolvir]

I honestly think the time travel stuff will mostly be a thing to explain this game's version of the Turnwheel. I dont see it effecting the plot too much, as it doesnt seem to be the main focus. The main focus seems to be the MC's interaction with Sothis, the church, and the 3 kingdoms.

Will time shenanigans play an effect? probably. But I cant see them doing more than a few things here and there over the course of the story. I really cant see anything even as much as Awakening toyed with.

But I could be wrong, who knows.

[Strullemia]

>Some; it'll be a part of the plot but overshadowed by other elements
>Some; make it a part of the story but don't let it swallow the story
I don't want Sothis's powers to be reduced to just a mila's turnwheel but I don't want them to be the focus till lategame either. Have the focus on the three factions, the different politics and the church and when we get to points in history that we need a little time travel power to fix things then I don't mind it. As long as they don't overly rely on it it will be fine.

[grin_fish]

I hope it has more to do with foresight than time travel. It would be neat if we could use foresight to determine where enemy reinforcements would appear on the map.

If it does have to do with time travel then I expect to see children return. It would be the perfect excuse.