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Captain Avian

Is it worth it to play Mystery of the Emblem?

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It's a bit slow, with some antiquated quirks. Nonetheless, I think the game has its charms. And the soundtrack is mostly good.

At the least, so far (I haven't completed New Mystery, only up to the Flame Barrel), its portrayal of Marth in Book 2 is the best that has ever been for me.

The game isn't hard, particularly Book 1 (the worse half IMO), but there are some fair challenges here and there. Particularly later into Book 2.

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I'd say Mystery of the Emblem is about as early as anyone should go back; beyond it are Gaiden and the original Shadow Dragon, which are antiquated and only worth playing for historical exhibition purposes rather than entertainment.

Mystery still has an entertainment value, and is quite fair.  I'd even say it's better balanced than the next game in the series, Genealogy of the Holy War.  One of the quirks you'll have to get adjusted to is the dismount mechanics, which are the game's way of balancing mounted units (because otherwise they're objectively the best units).

Heroes of Light and Shadow is probably better than the original Mystery of the Emblem in just about every single way, but Mystery is pretty much the root of the core of modern Fire Emblem.  If you just want a simple good FE game, Mystery is not a bad choice, and it's worth a try.  You at least won't get confused like you probably would with most other NES/SNES FE titles.

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43 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Mystery still has an entertainment value, and is quite fair.  I'd even say it's better balanced than the next game in the series, Genealogy of the Holy War.

I don't think it takes a lot to be better balanced than Genealogy of the Holy War.

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1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I don't think it takes a lot to be better balanced than Genealogy of the Holy War.

I was saying more in reference to the fact that it's better balanced than the game that came immediately after it rather than me suggesting that Genealogy is a balanced game.  Like, of the games from that era - the NES and SNES era - Mystery is probably the most balanced, normal FE game.  Only game from that time that would compare is Thracia 776, but not a lot of people have played that one yet.

If I wanted to be fair, I'd say it's better balanced than Binding Blade.  Which I actually will say is my opinion.  I'd also say it's better balanced than Awakening and Sacred Stones.  All of which I know aren't the best balanced games, but at this point I've already listed about a third-to-half of the franchise which has to count for something.  It's a little murky for me if I'm gonna be comparing it to either the DS remakes, Fates, or Blazing Sword, as they all are pretty well balanced as well, and I haven't played the Tellius games enough to have a gauge for how balanced they are.

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I would say it is. Personally, I'd say it's better than the Jugdral games - Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 (no one really talks about the NES games).

EDIT: Thinking about it from a perspective of the entire franchise, I would add Binding Blade, Sacred Stones, and Shadow Dragon to that list. This means I consider it better than half of the other FE games (did not mention the NES games because I thought that was obvious, and again, nobody really talks about them).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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27 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I say yes, there are many interesting things in it that are not included in the remake.

You mean like this?  Or all the exposition questions Marth asks in Book 2?

For real though, I do like the music style better in the SNES games than in the DS games.  Either way, you still get to see one of the best turncoats in the series.

I will say that if TC opted to only play one or the other between Mystery and New Mystery, there's plenty they'd miss if they skipped the DS remakes as well.  In particular an entire side story that, while it may not be necessary for the story as a whole, would be quite the sore miss nonetheless imo, especially if you liked the Black Fang side story in Blazing Sword.

That also being said, I think it's worth it to play both.  But this comes from someone who has enough recreational time set aside to play through different versions of the same game and beat Metal Gear Solid 3, like, ten times over.

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I'll say the story in FE3 B2 is actually more enjoyable than in FE12 due to the lack of Kris and the more condensed cast. Now FE12 is an amazing game, but the story in FE3 B2 is really built around Marth as his army of loyal followers and friends, which is kinda lost on FE12 due to its "Hey let's bring EVERYONE back!" gimmick.

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1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

You mean like this?  Or all the exposition questions Marth asks in Book 2?

For real though, I do like the music style better in the SNES games than in the DS games.  Either way, you still get to see one of the best turncoats in the series.

The unique way weapon ranks and of course dismount among other things is mainly what he'd probably say. 

Not to mention the more cool use of orbs over FE12. 

33 minutes ago, Jave said:

I'll say the story in FE3 B2 is actually more enjoyable than in FE12 due to the lack of Kris and the more condensed cast. Now FE12 is an amazing game, but the story in FE3 B2 is really built around Marth as his army of loyal followers and friends, which is kinda lost on FE12 due to its "Hey let's bring EVERYONE back!" gimmick.

Also this, the less Kris involved in anything the better.

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30 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

You mean like this?  Or all the exposition questions Marth asks in Book 2?

For real though, I do like the music style better in the SNES games than in the DS games.  Either way, you still get to see one of the best turncoats in the series.

I will say that if TC opted to only play one or the other between Mystery and New Mystery, there's plenty they'd miss if they skipped the DS remakes as well.  In particular an entire side story that, while it may not be necessary for the story as a whole, would be quite the sore miss nonetheless imo, especially if you liked the Black Fang side story in Blazing Sword.

That also being said, I think it's worth it to play both.  But this comes from someone who has enough recreational time set aside to play through different versions of the same game and beat Metal Gear Solid 3, like, ten times over.

* Dismounting is a major gameplay mechanic.

* Manakete transformations are handled entirely differently, allow tactic like Wyvern Tiki  flying over moats indoors.

* Unique enemy boss palettes and several characters like Julian having unique battle sprites.

* All characters are extremely easy to use unlike FE12.

* Bizarre bits like Lady sword dealing damage to thief units and 

* Crisp and delightful animations including battle animations and map animations.

* Beautiful CGs and a timeline not included in the DS remake.

* Various cut bits of dialogue like Archanea's founder and Michalis anger at Matthis.

* Bosses that got nerfed in the remake like Rumel who uses a riders bane in FE3.

* Bizarre stuff like the lone Berserker/Evil Fighter.

And other stuff I don't remember right now.

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Mystery has much better art and animation than New Mystery which along with the shadow dragon remake has the ugliest of the series. 

I would put Mystery as tied for 2nd best in the series along with Path of Radiance. It is a masterpiece.

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18 hours ago, forseti_spaghetti said:

Considering the remake for the DS, is there any point in playing the original over that one? 

Mystery has its own charm, it's something unique that belongs to the SNES era and can't be replicated by the latest remake.

if you like retro games and want to see how things worked back in the days, go for it. it aged quite well, and the visuals are quite similar to those of a GBA game.

otherwise, you can stick with the remake as well, but keep in mind that it will have a different approach to the story.

long story short: it would be best to play both games and see the differences for yourself.

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1 hour ago, Fenreir said:

long story short: it would be best to play both games and see the differences for yourself.

This is the best approach honestly, as both are almost different games considering how much New Mystery changes.

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Is it strange to consider that the opinion that the original SNES game is better than the DS remake?

For starters, the 2d graphics and animations are charming when compared to the ugly Shadow Dragon 3d.

Not to mention Kris' very existence turns me off from playing the remake, I don't want to be forced to play a self-insert bluntly forced into the original plot.

I also don't miss the missing characters like Davos that were added for some reason in the DS remake.

Edited by Spatha

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On 4/5/2019 at 12:50 PM, Fenreir said:

long story short: it would be best to play both games and see the differences for yourself.

My question are there ambush spawns in Fe3 because if there are not; I will happily play Fe3 with all the other knowledge I've learned reading this post. I've tried fe12 3-4 different times and make it to like chapter 3. 

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18 minutes ago, Wakenjake said:

My question are there ambush spawns in Fe3 because if there are not; I will happily play Fe3 with all the other knowledge I've learned reading this post. I've tried fe12 3-4 different times and make it to like chapter 3. 

Yes.

Although I don't find it as bad with them as FE12. Using save states can help minimize losses. And most of the time, you can tell where reinforcements will show up- forts and caves.

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25 minutes ago, Wakenjake said:

My question are there ambush spawns in Fe3 because if there are not; I will happily play Fe3 with all the other knowledge I've learned reading this post. I've tried fe12 3-4 different times and make it to like chapter 3. 

To a degree, but they are easier to block.

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50 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Yes.

Although I don't find it as bad with them as FE12. Using save states can help minimize losses. And most of the time, you can tell where reinforcements will show up- forts and caves.

Alright, so put my units on Forts that's seems manageable. I try my best to not use save states because to be honest I can't stop myself from SaveScumming. 

45 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

To a degree, but they are easier to block.

I just vaguely remember them really frustrating me on my last time through.

 

Well I've been looking for a fresh FE experiance since my last (and like 30th) playthrough of RD. I tried Awakening again (haven't played since the one time I completed in when I came out) and got tired of that soooooo Fe3 here I come (if I like it enough I'll play Fe12 I guess..).

Idk if I should start a new thread for this but any helpful tips for a first time playthrough? (although I assume book 1 is almost the same as SD)

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Worth playing? Most definitely! The soundtrack is good and it has a couple of good challenges. It doesn't suffer from old age as much as the original two, so, imo, it's definitely still worth playing.

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1 hour ago, Wakenjake said:

Idk if I should start a new thread for this but any helpful tips for a first time playthrough?

few things:

- stats are capped at 20, so if you have enough stats-boosting consumable items, you can maximize units even before promotion;

- some classes like mercenaries or archers always keep their single main weapon type even after promotion, while mages and sisters can get access to staffs and tomes. in other words, it's always useful to promote them as soon as they level up to lv10;

- Knights, Pegasus knights and Dragon knights use lances as mounted units, while they use swords when dismounted;

- you need to dismount in order to enter buildings with mounted units;

- Pegasus knights will loose their resistance in exchange for more defensive/offensive stats after promotion, so if you want to keep them as anti-mage units, it would be wise to not promote them at all;

- Manaketes are very strong and don't require much leveling in order to be useful;

- arenas have "RNG soft caps" that will start showing up after reaching level 10 with any unit. all the battles past that level will become either very hard or just impossible to win, so it would be wise to get the units you want to promotion level and then leave the arenas to someone else.

- Devil swords work very well against Earth dragons, but they can also backfire and hit you instead. use at your own risk.

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5 hours ago, Wakenjake said:

Alright, so put my units on Forts that's seems manageable. I try my best to not use save states because to be honest I can't stop myself from SaveScumming. 

Yup.

For a few tips on dealing with reinforcements in Book 2, I'm just putting it in spoilers if you don't want it:

Spoiler
  • Do not play Chapters 8 & 9 slowly, otherwise expect elite enemies to show up and bite you in the rear. Get Marth to the villages and then get him to seize, you don't get many spare turns here.
  • For Chapter 6, the enemies will spawn from your starting position a few turns in, fortunately you've plenty of chokepoints here to hold out. And if you choose to open the western door, make sure Ogma or Caeda are right next to it first.
  • For Chapter 16- it isn't reinforcements, but be warned that if you get close enough, the enemies will open the locked door on their own and attack.
  • Apparently Chapter 19 has reinforcements if you get really close to the castle, but it has to be really really close. Simply getting near the forts around it won't do it.
  • For Chapter 12, I think the only reinforcements come from the three forts east of your starting position. FE12 changed it and added Flying Dragon reinforcements, which is just evil.
  • For the final final fight with Medeus, save all 3 or 2 uses of the Again Staff, and after you take a turn or two for moving in, use Again to make things much easier.

 

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5 hours ago, Wakenjake said:

Idk if I should start a new thread for this but any helpful tips for a first time playthrough?

  • As stats cap at 20, don't be afraid to promote early
  • In book 2, you'll need to use Sirius, Merric, Julian, and Minerva for the endgame
  • A good mage who can use Starlight is a must if you want to have an easy time with Medeus
  • Speaking of, the good ending in book 2 requires getting all 5 orbs; the Star Orb requires getting the 12 shards and seeing Gotoh.
  • Only knights and generals can use lances indoors (mounted units are forced to dismount indoors).
  • You need to hustle in book 2 chapter 8 - Hardin is on the map, and he has maxed stats. He starts moving after several turns, too. Ditto for the next chapter - a bunch of enemies show up, with one of them using an Archanean Regalia.
Edited by Shadow Mir

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10 hours ago, Wakenjake said:

Idk if I should start a new thread for this but any helpful tips for a first time playthrough? (although I assume book 1 is almost the same as SD)

Nah, this is a fine place to ask.

Apart from what everyone else said...

  • When mounted units start hitting their stat caps (20, like everyone's been saying), start having them fight unmounted.  Or rather, have them level unmounted.  Reason being is that those stats will remain lower when they're unmounted unless they gain some levels while on foot.  If they hit their stat caps unmounted, they'll always retain 20 in those stats regardless of if they're mounted or not.
  • The Star Shards in Book 2 - along with the Star Orb itself - all boost growth rates for any unit that holds them.  For the shards, the boosts are listed here, and for the orb, it boosts all growths (including the normally immovable resistance stat) by 30%, which is huge.  The key to using these effectively is handing them off to units close to leveling up, which means frequently trading them between units.  Would say for determining who carries which shards, look at which stats they're bad with and consider whether or not you want them to improve those stats.
  • This is one of the only games where certain types of magic has effectiveness against certain types of dragons (e.g. fire magic is effective against ice/mage dragons, Blizzard is effective against fire dragons, etc.).
  • Speaking of effectiveness, the amount of damage you should deal against an enemy you're effective against is the effective damage (displayed at the bottom of a unit's battle stats) minus the enemy's defense against whatever damage type they're dealing (strength or magic).  Basically, if you want to try to figure out how much attack power you have with an effective weapon, don't try to do any math because it shows you right there so long as your unit is equipped with the effective weapon.
  • Also, dragons' breath attacks ignore all defenses.  The only exception is when the dragons fight other dragons.  So for everyone except Tiki and Bantu, when you see that a dragon's attack power is 20, that means your guy is taking 20 damage unless they can kill the dragon in one hit.
  • Thieves, fighters, dancers, manaketes, and Marth don't have promotions.  If there's anyone you ought to save stat boosters for, it's Marth, because you kinda really need him to be good, particularly in both stories' endgames because the final boss always is basically impervious to any and all attacks made by any weapons other than Falchion or Tiki's Misty Breath (which she gets when she transforms using the Divine Dragonstone).
  • Units actually have two inventories; they have a weapon inventory and an item inventory, each with a capacity of four.  When Marth gets the Fire Emblem, it takes up an item space for the rest of the game.  Also, staves count as items instead of weapons.
  • There are no axe users in Book 2, so any axes you acquire there can only be sold to vendors.  Yes, this is one of those games where wyvern lords don't use axes.  It's just as disappointing a fact as it is in Gaiden/Echoes.
  • Weapon rank isn't separated into weapon types.  It is all a universal stat, known as "weapon level", which only increases during level ups.  In other words, you can't train weapon levels like you can in most other FE games, you have to cross your fingers and hope they keep getting weapon levels during their level ups (or just use the star items).

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^That reminds me: The final boss in both books halves your attack power, meaning you need a very powerful weapon to do damage. 

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

fire magic is effective against ice/mage dragons

Erm, I don't think fire magic is effective against mage dragons. Speaking of which, instead of negating magic entirely like was the case in other Archanea games, they have capped resistance, meaning your mages won't harm them without resorting to powerful magic spells (as opposed to not being able to do anything to them period).

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