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Gruntagen

Ah, darn it. (Endgame and 3-7)

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Turns out that when the hints page said that "both Ike and the Black Knight have to survive their encounter in Chapter 3-7", they weren't kidding. I decided to go completely nuts on that level and have the BK get KO'd by Haar after Ike attacked him, and now I'm paying the price by not getting Lehran in Endgame.

Ah well. Learn something new everyday.

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14 hours ago, Gruntagen said:

Turns out that when the hints page said that "both Ike and the Black Knight have to survive their encounter in Chapter 3-7", they weren't kidding. I decided to go completely nuts on that level and have the BK get KO'd by Haar after Ike attacked him, and now I'm paying the price by not getting Lehran in Endgame.

Ah well. Learn something new everyday.

Huh. Did the Black Knight just retreat with a weird arbitrary quote after ya gave him the ol' Haard Mode?

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17 hours ago, Gruntagen said:

Turns out that when the hints page said that "both Ike and the Black Knight have to survive their encounter in Chapter 3-7", they weren't kidding. I decided to go completely nuts on that level and have the BK get KO'd by Haar after Ike attacked him, and now I'm paying the price by not getting Lehran in Endgame.

Ah well. Learn something new everyday.

I'd assume you were playing on easy mode since otherwise it's just not feasible to have a unit who could stand up to him at that point in the game.

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd assume you were playing on easy mode since otherwise it's just not feasible to have a unit who could stand up to him at that point in the game.

. . .what the hell.  Like, why would you even say this to someone?

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

. . .what the hell.  Like, why would you even say this to someone?

Because I would be legitimately impressed if somebody defeated the BK in 3-7 on anything other than easy mode. That's all.

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Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Because I would be legitimately impressed if somebody defeated the BK in 3-7 on anything other than easy mode. That's all.

. . .still not a cool thing to say.  Also, a little bit of subforum research should give you some insight. . .

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because I would be legitimately impressed if somebody defeated the BK in 3-7 on anything other than easy mode. That's all.

He is weak to Hammer, and Haar is easily brought up to the stats needed, all you need is to hope the BK doesn't Eclipse. And even that could be averted if you stripped Nolan of Nihil and had Ilyana pass it along. A Battle Save or simply resetting- it wouldn't be very painful to get back to the BK, could also work.

For the EXP to promote, if you take your time in 2-F instead of assassinating Ludveck, you can easily load up this level 11 Dragonmaster. And after 2-F, you've still four juicy chapters to feed him kills. My Haars on Normal efficiency-leaning runs tend to naturally promote at 3-4.

 

For durability, Haar definitely can survive a BK hit at base level, but not two. The average 20/1 Haar has 52 HP and 28 Def, the BK has 57 Atk for 29 damage. If Haar had even more HP and or Def surviving a second hit would be possible.

BK has 30 Spd, Haar needs at least 27 to avoid being doubled. Has a 20 base and gets 2 on promotion. Between BEXP after capping like Str and Def, a Speedwings being available, and just naturally proccing Spd, Haar can easily get this. 

 

The BK has 40 Def with Alondite, a Hammer after deducting WTD has 36 effective Mt. As a minimum, Haar will have 25 Str, but obviously more, let's say his 20/1 average of 31. This means 67 Atk, or 27 per hit. With 70 HP, the BK dies in three hits, more likely four since Haar can't double and the BK has Imbue to heal him.

For the accuracy of this scenario Haar has 28 Skl and 17 Lck at 20/1, for a total of 74 Hit sans weapon. The BK 30 Spd and 20 Lck for 80 Avoid. The Hammer has 60 Hit, and we must deduct 15 due to WTD. However, Haar has Ike's Authority Stars to improve his chances by 30 Hit, which work regardless of where Ike is in relation to Haar, and the BK is serving the authority-less Micaiah.

So Haar has 149 Hit, which makes for a 69 Displayed Hit chance. This is 81% True, which is quite reliable. Haar isn't in a rush to kill the BK, he has plenty of turns to do it and nobody else could possibly threaten him unless a Thunder Sage is near.

This is before considering Biorhythm, which could work again you, but it could also work for you, so I don't really consider it. Haar could have a +Hit Support too, provided he ferries his partner with him to the showdown site and they can survive if need be. 

 

With flight, the river, and the BK being armored, Haar has the freedom to move away after a Hammer hit and get a Staff heal, or to pop a Concoction, and then be refreshed by Reyson. And if you had Haar, Neph, Brom, or Heather bring over Elincia's Physic, you could heal Haar with ease.

 

 

So long story short, Haar killing the BK is fairly easily. No massive favoritism is needed I think. And if you intentionally prep to do this and put in the extra effort for it, it is a cinch.

 

8 hours ago, Wakenjake said:

Did the Black Knight just retreat with a weird arbitrary quote after ya gave him the ol' Haard Mode?

Black Knight defeated by Ike

Black Knight: Impressive. You have indeed begun to walk in Gawain’s footsteps.
Ike: Do you admit defeat, then?
Black Knight: No, but I have finished taking your measure. You have made great progress, but still fall short.
Ike: The next time we meet, it will be for the last time. I will avenge my father!
Black Knight: Continue to train, Ike, son of Gawain. We will meet again.

(Black Knight retreats)

Black Knight defeated by others

Black Knight: Impossible… I’ve been defeated?
Micaiah: Sir Knight!
Black Knight: Do not be alarmed, my maiden. I won’t die so easily…
Micaiah: I’ll heal you right now.
Black Knight: That won’t be necessary, though I am afraid I must retreat. I apologize, my maiden. I will pay back the debt another time.

(Black Knight retreats)
Micaiah: …Please be safe.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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45 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because I would be legitimately impressed if somebody defeated the BK in 3-7 on anything other than easy mode. That's all.

Kinda an irrelevant deduction, wouldn't you say?

In any case, the Black Knight is easy enough to kill no matter the difficulty. Hammers are a thing after all.

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because I would be legitimately impressed if somebody defeated the BK in 3-7 on anything other than easy mode. That's all.

BK ain't actually any weaker on Easy mode, just so everyone knows. And I actually fought him on Normal mode, anyways.

Heck, I managed to get Ike the killing blow one time using a max-strength forged Steel Sword, an A support with Soren, and some scratch assistance from Shinon, Janaff, and a turncoated Jill. And Haar, obviously.

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

However, Haar has Ike's Authority Stars to improve his chances by 30 Hit, which work regardless of where Ike is in relation to Haar, and the BK is serving the authority-less Micaiah.

Correction: Authority stars give +5 hit/avoid each, not +10.

Edited by Gruntagen

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11 minutes ago, Gruntagen said:

Correction: Authority stars give +5 hit/avoid each, not +10.

I though 10 seemed excessive, and not as much as I thought I felt. Woops! Ike isn't quite so passively broken after all.

That'd bring it down to 54 Displayed, which is only 58 True, significantly worse than 81 True. But it doesn't hurt things too much, you've still plenty o' time and ease to kill the BK.

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2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I though 10 seemed excessive, and not as much as I thought I felt.

Hey, if it actually was +10, then 1-E would be infamous, and 3-13 even more of a nightmare than it already is.

And yet, I feel like they still didn't do nearly enough with leadership stars in FE10, since almost no bosses have them, a whole bunch of usable units get them despite how they mean nothing unless they're Ike, Elincia, Lucia, Geoffrey, Skrimir or Tibarn, and Micaiah never gets any in the entire game even though they could easily give her a star or two after she promoted to Light Sage.

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3 hours ago, BrightBow said:

In any case, the Black Knight is easy enough to kill no matter the difficulty. Hammers are a thing after all.

This is in the context of 3-7, where odds are no one on your team would have the stats to survive a round with him.

22 minutes ago, Gruntagen said:

BK ain't actually any weaker on Easy mode, just so everyone knows. And I actually fought him on Normal mode, anyways.

Heck, I managed to get Ike the killing blow one time using a max-strength forged Steel Sword, an A support with Soren, and some scratch assistance from Shinon, Janaff, and a turncoated Jill. And Haar, obviously.

Well, I know he's not weaker on easy mode, but I mentioned it because you get more experience, and thus having third tier units by that point is actually feasible. Anyways, I'd question why the BK's survival is even required for getting Lehran since one look at his stats would be enough to tell anyone that going up against him is, for all intents and purposes, suicide.

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3 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Well, I know he's not weaker on easy mode, but I mentioned it because you get more experience, and thus having third tier units by that point is actually feasible. Anyways, I'd question why the BK's survival is even required for getting Lehran since one look at his stats would be enough to tell anyone that going up against him is, for all intents and purposes, suicide.

Never doubt the power of Bonus EXP,  FE9 stat transfers, and deliberately feeding entire levels to Haar for the sake of quick promotion.

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2 minutes ago, Gruntagen said:

And yet, I feel like they still didn't do nearly enough with leadership stars in FE10, since almost no bosses have them, a whole bunch of usable units get them despite how they mean nothing unless they're Ike, Elincia, Lucia, Geoffrey, Skrimir or Tibarn, and Micaiah never gets any in the entire game even though they could easily give her a star or two after she promoted to Light Sage.

Yeah, I agree, the system was underused. It's mostly just for flavor.

It would have been better if certain characters provided the boost for certain units. Ike can grant Hit and Evade to all the GMs, and maybe Ranulf and a select few others, but otherwise doesn't give it. Ike can't help say Janaff via his stars, only Tibarn can, and maybe they can give Reyson & Leanne some that'd work on Janaff as well.

The Authority Stars idea was copied from the Jugdral games, Thracia more precisely in how it functions. And Genealogy at least, waiting for the finished new Thracia translation, certainly did a whole lot more with it. Most enemy commanders have at least a 1 Star, albeit there the boost only works on units within 3 spaces of the possessor and the unit itself, if a larger +10. And 1 Star is admittedly just flavor, unless Kaga really meant it when he said in an old interview that having Stars affects the enemy AI to be "smarter" than not having them.

Thracia from a distance does seem to be bit better in the sense that most of the playable units they gave Stars to were less than great at combat. Even if most of them come late as well. So Stars let them indirectly buff other characters as a tradeoff for they themselves being weaker. By comparison, most of the playables who get Stars in RD, are already good or broken combat units.

And that Thracia let Leif gain one Star, then another, and then lose the second, points to them just being lazy in not giving a single one to Micaiah. Even Pelleas has one, and so does the generic boss fighting in Micaiah's name and under her command from afar in 3-11.

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

This is in the context of 3-7, where odds are no one on your team would have the stats to survive a round with him.

Now mere survival really is not much of a problem. The Black Knight got 56 attack. You literally get two units on this very map that can tank that at base. And so does Ranulf.

Most other frontliners should be able to survive that damage too as long as they can avoid getting doubled. But hitting 27 speed is not that big of a hurdle at that point. Especially considering you already get your first Master Crown in 3-3. And Haar may well have reached 3rd tier even without it. (Titania too of course, but she can't cross the swamp) And of course there are two Speedwings that might potentially find their way to the Greil Mercenaries.

Edited by BrightBow

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