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Von Ithipathachai

Optimal Class Lines

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Is there a reason why you chose Mortal Savant over Wyvern Lord? I would say that using a Budding Talent and a strength while gaining a mount would be better and easier than using a strength and a neutral skill and not gaining one.

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Wyvern Rider doesn't require lance rank, though. Claude could train as a Brigand before going into Wyvern Rider.

Noble -> Fighter -> Brigand/Archer -> Wyvern Rider/Sniper -> Wyvern Lord

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1 minute ago, Jayvee94 said:

Wyvern Rider doesn't require lance rank, though. Claude could train as a Brigand before going into Wyvern Rider.

Noble -> Fighter -> Brigand/Archer -> Wyvern Rider/Sniper -> Wyvern Lord

Wyvern Rider doesn't require a Lance rank, but Wyvern Lord might.  I predict its recommendations will be a C Rank in Lances, an A Rank in Axes, and an A Rank in Flying.

Hopefully that C Rank will not be too hard to get.

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5 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Wyvern Rider doesn't require a Lance rank, but Wyvern Lord might.  I predict its recommendations will be a C Rank in Lances, an A Rank in Axes, and an A Rank in Flying.

Hopefully that C Rank will not be too hard to get.

Most of the master class appear to be Hybrids so having 3 required ranks are understandable. Wyvern Lord and Falcon Knight however are direct upgrades.

My prediction would be they only need two skills.

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6 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Wyvern Rider doesn't require a Lance rank, but Wyvern Lord might.  I predict its recommendations will be a C Rank in Lances, an A Rank in Axes, and an A Rank in Flying.

Hopefully that C Rank will not be too hard to get.

It does look like lances are required for  wyvern lord. I guess you can leave to chance if you want a wyvern lord Claude. 

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1 minute ago, SilverArcher said:

It does look like lances are required for  wyvern lord. I guess you can leave to chance if you want a wyvern lord Claude. 

Where does it say that? It shows the same weapons for Wyvern Rider.

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Just now, SilverArcher said:

It does look like lances are required for  wyvern lord. I guess you can leave to chance if you want a wyvern lord Claude. 

Those are not requirements. Those are proficiencies.

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Lysithea looks like she could actually be a really solid Dancer with budding talent in swords and strength in authority, as well as dual magic strengths since dancers can use that this time around.

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Haven't a lot of people done the math to suggest that attaining a C is pretty easy, but getting anything higher than a C is significantly more difficult?

 

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21 minutes ago, jack! said:

Lysithea looks like she could actually be a really solid Dancer with budding talent in swords and strength in authority, as well as dual magic strengths since dancers can use that this time around.

I don't know how useful a budding talent will be if the unit has a bane in it; it doesn't reverse the bane after unlocking the budding talent so it's a bit redundant; unless the skill is really good and lends Lysithea to being a great sword user.

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1 minute ago, HappyHawlucha. said:

I don't know how useful a budding talent will be if the unit has a bane in it; it doesn't reverse the bane after unlocking the budding talent so it's a bit redundant; unless the skill is really good and lends Lysithea to being a great sword user.

Really? I thought it was revealed pretty early on that if you unlocked a budding talent it reversed to a strength?

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3 minutes ago, ArsSanctum said:

Haven't a lot of people done the math to suggest that attaining a C is pretty easy, but getting anything higher than a C is significantly more difficult?

 

C is pretty easy, but you can even get to B in whatever two things you want pre-skip if you focus on them exclusively. A is another matter, as getting from B -> B+ -> A requires almost as much wxp as going from E -> B

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Just now, IzzyFresh said:

Really? I thought it was revealed pretty early on that if you unlocked a budding talent it reversed to a strength?

Unlocking a budding talent should turn it a strength marked by a blue up arrow. But as a mage how much use she will get out of isn't certain. If she has low strength grows she may not be able to use the sword skill to the fullest potential but that depends on the skill she learns from it. 

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Just now, SilverArcher said:

Unlocking a budding talent should turn it a strength marked by a blue up arrow. But as a mage how much use she will get out of isn't certain. If she has low strength grows she may not be able to use the sword skill to the fullest potential but that depends on the skill she learns from it. 

Levin Swords are in the game, so having a magic sword with combat arts as a back up for spells is definitely going to be useful.

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4 minutes ago, IzzyFresh said:

Levin Swords are in the game, so having a magic sword with combat arts as a back up for spells is definitely going to be useful.

I forgot how amazing a Levin Sword Wrath Strike from Lysithea is gonna be jeez 

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I would prefer Ignatz as an Assassin over Paladin/Sniper. While he may do Great as a Bow Knight, he would be at my lowest priority with Master Seals.

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I would really like to know if Great Knight needs riding levels to get. If its only the Armor skill, then lots of units can get it easy, but if it needs Armor+Riding, it would be a complete pain.

Depending on that, im gonna make Edelgard a Great Knight or a Wyvern Lord, the last one would be badass for her tho.

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20 hours ago, Nio said:

I would really like to know if Great Knight needs riding levels to get. If its only the Armor skill, then lots of units can get it easy, but if it needs Armor+Riding, it would be a complete pain.

Depending on that, im gonna make Edelgard a Great Knight or a Wyvern Lord, the last one would be badass for her tho.

Lance and Riding skills are practically siblings. I'm confident with both Axes and Heavy Armor being A. It'd be weird for it to recommend Riding skill as the class itself is not proficient with it. 

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Since I heard from some sources that Hilda is really good I see Great Knight, Wyvern Lord and War Master(hopefully not gender locked but seeing as its an upgraded Warrior likely not) being excellent choices for her!

Edited by Dorothea Joestar Arnold

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Kind of weird Dark Mage and Mercenary are Male only even though they weren’t gender locked in Awakening and Fates, yet Fighter can be accessed by female units. Has it been confirmed how mounted units move again? Or the requirements for Dancer?

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3 hours ago, HappyHawlucha. said:

I forgot how amazing a Levin Sword Wrath Strike from Lysithea is gonna be jeez 

I'm more interested if there's a way for her to use Catherine's Thunderbrand, considering Charon's crest is on it. That would make Mortal Savant a very interesting option for her, at least to me.

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This is a really neat spreadsheet! Thanks for making it @Von Ithipathachai!

A few things I've been thinking about though:

It is unlikely that classes will have any stat caps at all. The class system thus far has been shown to be extremely similar to Echoes where stat caps are exclusively tied to characters. Therefore, any class is viable late game from a purely stat based comparison, as no matter what class a character is in, they will have the same stats. In fact, I'd say there is a 50/50 chance Commoner/Noble will be the strongest class in the game. In Bravely Default, the Freelancer job (that game's equivalent of the Commoner/Noble) is the default starting class of every character. It is a jack of all trades, master of none job that is almost entirely nonviable. However, it has a unique passive ability that boosts all of the character's stats by 1% for every job they have mastered. If a character masters every single job, they will gain a whopping 24% bonus to very single stat while in the Freelancer job, turning them from a master of none to a master of everything. I'm thinking if you master the Commoner/Noble class in TH, you will unlock a similar skill that boosts the characters stats relative to how many classes they have mastered. If that is the case, The Commoner/Noble could become viable again late game and maybe even as early as the mid game for some characters.

As far as class line “optimization” goes, I’d say it’s still a bit too early to tell. If I had to make a guess though, I would say it will be more about what stats you want a character to grow in, and less about what skills will help them get to their “ideal” master class faster. For instance, having Felix, who is shaping up to be one of the fastest characters in the game, waste time in Cavalier/Paladin, two of the slowest classes in the game, just so he can reach Bow Knight faster seems very counterproductive. Is getting to Bow Knight immediately really worth crippling his speed? If instead you trained him in things like Thief, Swordmaster, or Savant, and then at the very end you trained up his skills to have at least a 50% chance of passing the Paladin exam, you would probably be much better off. He’d still have access to all the same weapons as a Bow Knight, and probably the same movement too. So you are trading the Bow Knight’s class skills and a few extra Advanced Seals for much higher speed. That path seems more worth it to me. This strategy is dependent on classes not affecting stat caps, but honestly, that is the way it seems it will go.

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35 minutes ago, Landjager said:

This is a really neat spreadsheet! Thanks for making it @Von Ithipathachai!

A few things I've been thinking about though:

It is unlikely that classes will have any stat caps at all. The class system thus far has been shown to be extremely similar to Echoes where stat caps are exclusively tied to characters. Therefore, any class is viable late game from a purely stat based comparison, as no matter what class a character is in, they will have the same stats. In fact, I'd say there is a 50/50 chance Commoner/Noble will be the strongest class in the game. In Bravely Default, the Freelancer job (that game's equivalent of the Commoner/Noble) is the default starting class of every character. It is a jack of all trades, master of none job that is almost entirely nonviable. However, it has a unique passive ability that boosts all of the character's stats by 1% for every job they have mastered. If a character masters every single job, they will gain a whopping 24% bonus to very single stat while in the Freelancer job, turning them from a master of none to a master of everything. I'm thinking if you master the Commoner/Noble class in TH, you will unlock a similar skill that boosts the characters stats relative to how many classes they have mastered. If that is the case, The Commoner/Noble could become viable again late game and maybe even as early as the mid game for some characters.

As far as class line “optimization” goes, I’d say it’s still a bit too early to tell. If I had to make a guess though, I would say it will be more about what stats you want a character to grow in, and less about what skills will help them get to their “ideal” master class faster. For instance, having Felix, who is shaping up to be one of the fastest characters in the game, waste time in Cavalier/Paladin, two of the slowest classes in the game, just so he can reach Bow Knight faster seems very counterproductive. Is getting to Bow Knight immediately really worth crippling his speed? If instead you trained him in things like Thief, Swordmaster, or Savant, and then at the very end you trained up his skills to have at least a 50% chance of passing the Paladin exam, you would probably be much better off. He’d still have access to all the same weapons as a Bow Knight, and probably the same movement too. So you are trading the Bow Knight’s class skills and a few extra Advanced Seals for much higher speed. That path seems more worth it to me. This strategy is dependent on classes not affecting stat caps, but honestly, that is the way it seems it will go.

Doubtful. For starters this isn't Bravely Default. Or even in the same company house as it.

Second Caps might not matter but bases and growths do, and every FE game since Shadow Dragon has done the same thing with reclassing, it adjusts into your new base stats, and gives you new growth rates. And those impact things based on how many levels you have to work with. I doubt you'll be able to hit any caps off of Commonoble growths. Even if you had some bonus for being in Commoner/Noble, that wouldn't help when it comes to class exclusive abilities and how they modify your overall kit.

Third Move is a static stat, being in a later class gives you better battlefield mobility which is significant in Fire Emblem games. This is why Canto and Cavalry are busted.

Fourth let's go back to how class abilities matter: You do not get all of the class abilities on mastery, and even if you did you can't equip them into the class slots, they take up one of the five free slots. So you want a class with an advantageous ability spread. Later mage classes give you three times the uses on your various spells. So unless you think your Commonoble can win with only base levels of each magic,  you might want the triple usage offered by Bishop (for Faith) and Warlock (for Reason).

Now all that said you are correct that optimization is hard to gauge until we know what mastery gives you in all the variables on the table. Going into some classes might net game breaking skills that warrant staying there for a time. In the same way that Awakening meant 'everyone gets Galeforce' for optimization.

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36 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Hey @Von Ithipathachai, you do realize that by cashing in your renown on the right statues and abusing Byleth's personal skill can speed up the process? And I believe that the fighting throughout the year will shave a month or two off of tutoring if you know what you're doing.

I was not aware of this.  It may help with getting those tough-to-reach classes.

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