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What Is *SPOILERS* Rationale For Hating The Church?

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I’m writing an Edelgard-centric fanfic, and it occurred to me that it’s not really explained in detail why she blames the Church for Crest-based society. Beyond her whole speech in chapter 12, I don’t think the game ever tells you. Did I miss any implications or subtext? How did you rationalize it? (Not for hating on Edelgard)

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Basic assumption is:

Seiros-> Crests are gift from Goddess, using them selfishly is bad. 

Humans - >  Crest are good, Curch said so. Let's make toxic Crest system. 

Eldegard - >toxic Crest system exist because church says Crest are good, only by destroying church they can realize they are wrong  and Crests are to blame. 

Edited by Tenzen12

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There's a couple of reasons. 

Edelgard seems to be aware the Church leaders aren't really human and feels they are controling her race for their own ends. She also has some guild about her ancestor surrendering mankind to them. 

She blames the Church for the Kingdom and alliance splitting off

The Church spread pro crest propaganda and thus needs to go. 

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Here is a quick 4 point summary of what drives El:

1. Her hatred for Crests, as the power they represent cost her entire family and who knows how many others.

2. Her hatred for the nobility. Or perhaps more specifically, the power the Crest-bearing nobles  wield over those without; non-crest nobles and commoners alike.

3. Her revanchist desire to restore both Fódlan to Adrestrian rule, and also to undo the restraints imposed on her ability to rule by the nobility of the Empire.

4. Ultimately to destroy that what she sees as the root cause of her Empire’s, her continent’s, and her own personal suffering; the corrupt Church of Serios.

Like Tenzen and the Eturian Empra pointed out, a lot of her animosity towards the church can be routed back to the role of crests, the role of the church in propagating their acceptance as a status of the nobility (a power that is used and abused as evident with how many crest-bearing females in the cast that society views as little more than marriage fodder like they are a female in CK2 with the genius trait), as well as the church's role in splitting the formerly continent-spanning Adrestian Empire's territory up between the Kingdom and the Alliance. A point as well to remember is that the Church and Empire have not been on friendly terms in the recent decades leading up to the start of the game. I do not know if they ever cite a reason why for the rift, but it may be an avenue to pursue for your fic, at least to give her speech fodder for use when rallying the populace.

A thing to also remember is that the Hresvelg family has always been aware of who really leads the Church of Seiros, and that information has been passed from Emperor to Emperor. Now, while I doubt many of her predecessors did anything with that information, her experience undergoing experimentation by Agartha and whatever new information they continue to feed her up until the route split also color her impression of the Church, regardless of the dubious quality of information coming from the likes of Thales and co. 

Here is something I've been thinking about that could also really motivate El; the weakening position of the Empire, and in particular the power of the Emperor, always weighed heavily on Edelgard's mind, especially since her nation was coming hot off of the heels of a hard-fought war with both Brigid and Dagda. Keep in mind that this is a personal head-canon, and only based off of my readings of the various books in the archives and my own knowledge of political history. Something to consider is that Rhea and the Church have endeavored to keep Fodlan trapped in medieval-stasis since the end of the War of Heroes, as Rhea views an advanced human civilization as a threat to her and the remaining Nabateans. Remember, the game flat out says that Dagda is far bigger than people like to think, probably containing multiple nations, none of which have a cabal of demigods holding humanity back for obscure reasons. Perhaps those Dagdans were more advanced than the Empire's forces. Perhaps they were using pike&shot era tech and tactics as opposed to the obstinately late middle ages level of the Empire. Perhaps the Empire only won that war by the skin of their teeth, and there is no telling when some other nation across the sea will smell easy colonial territory and come knocking. Edelgard already knows of one very hostile organization within Fodlan with technology that dwarfs everyone on Fodlan, what else is out there? The Empire is a shadow of what it once was, it's western territories laid to ruin by the Dagdan invasion, and its power further split by conspiring feudal noble houses. The Kingdom may be rebellion prone now, but all they need is a strong leader and they'll become a force to be reckoned with. The Alliance is (implied) to be undergoing a boon in economic growth, what with all the traders and children of trader families of the Alliance present in the Academy, and its probably safe to assume that a lot of that wealth is flowing out of the increasingly vestigial Empire. All of this because the Church has seen fit to break and handicap the Empire at every crisis, as well as gimp humanity, or at least humanity on Fodlan, by having them constantly try to one-up each other with Crests and the political/social power they bring individuals and families. All courtesy of a Church led by a increasingly degraded individual (who isn't even human) acting on very selfish impulses at everyone's (but seemingly her own people's) expense.

I have a few more ideas, if you want to hear more of my ramblings. I look forward to seeing your piece.

 

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1: The crest system has brought a great deal of suffering to the masses (tons of character's backgrounds can be boiled down to either "My life sucks because I'm seen as worthless for not having a crest" or "My life sucks because I'm basically a commodity for having a crest").

2: The crest system was Rhea's tool for bringing her mother back to life (she needed Sothis's crest stone and some DNA to make her host bodies, and I assume she imposed the crest system in order to observe the effects of crests on human physiology).

Those two things together mean:

3A: Rhea is technically responsible for the suffering of the masses, whether commoner or noble.

3B: Edelgard cannot get rid of crests without killing Rhea (Rhea is so hellbent on getting her mother back that she will never stop until either she dies or Sothis finally possesses Byleth).

Which leads me to:

4: Edelgard cannot kill Rhea without fighting the church (don't for one minute think that Seteth or Catherine would ever just hand her over).

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That's actually both wrong. 

1.Only one who suffer are nobles, well few of them. Masses are innact by Crest system. 

2.Rhea did not created it. She hidden origin of crests and everything else related to TWSITD, rest was just work of humans. In matter of fact often even completely unrelated to church or its teaching (Gautier and other border noble families). 

Edited by Tenzen12

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1 minute ago, Tenzen12 said:

That's actually both wrong. 

1.Only one who suffer are nobles, well few of them. Masses are in act by Crest system. 

2.Rhea did not created Crest system. She hidden origin of crests and everything else related to TWSITD, rest was just work of humans. Often even completely unrelated to church or its teaching (Gautier and other border noble families). 

1: Tell that to Dorothea.

2: Crests in general, no. But she could have removed that power from the humans who desecrated her family's bodies as penance, and instead not only kept it around, but made it the basis of society (meaning the crest system, as in the crest-based nobility system).

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Dorothea suffering has nothing to do with crests though. Slums are always thing. 

I mean yes, she probably could either kill or castrate 10 elites and crested allies from Adrestia Empire  so they can't pass on crests to next generation but it would be pretty dick move imho ( pun not intended) . 

Edited by Tenzen12

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Just now, Tenzen12 said:

 

I mean yes, she probably could kill 10 elites and crested allies from Adrestia Empire so they can't pass on crests, but it would be pretty dick move imho. 

 

Euh, you remember how Rhea/Seiros was in the opening cinematic? I'm pretty sure the only reason the Crests other than hers and her fellow Saints are still in use is because she wanted to 'preserve' those of her departed people, and that was the only convenient way. And I strongly suspect some people (Cichol and Indech) had to argue that point, because at no moment I see her in Seiros mode sparing Nemesis' lieutenants for the only reason of 'they surrendered, killing them is a dick move'.

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2 hours ago, warchiefwilliams said:

 

A thing to also remember is that the Hresvelg family has always been aware of who really leads the Church of Seiros, and that information has been passed from Emperor to Emperor. Now, while I doubt many of her predecessors did anything with that information, her experience undergoing experimentation by Agartha and whatever new information they continue to feed her up until the route split also color her impression of the Church, regardless of the dubious quality of information coming from the likes of Thales and co. 

 

Euh, can you tell me when this 'secret knowledge' thing was mentioned? I'm without the games for a few weeks, and the videos I'm scouring on the internet never mentioned that. And it feels strange they would know that, because if so I guess they would know the Immaculate One is Seiros, and Edelgard is dismissive of the idea in Crimson Flower. And it's not like the idea of Seiros=Immaculate One doesn't play as a charm in her interpretation of the situation.

 

As for Tharundel, I have doubts, started with the fact he openly refer to Nemesis as a thief in front of Edelgard as the Flame Emperor, and that she is left intrigued by that when she has this that wildly different vision of Nemesis. But beyond that, I'm going to explain my viewpoint about him along with my personal interpretation:

 

-At the root of the matter, there is the fact that Fodlan's system failed, failed her hard. She was a daughter of the emperor, aka the sovereign directly acknowledged by the archbishop, voice of the Goddess on Fodlan (probably part of a little... 'political dance': Rhea/Seiros gets a position where she could veto emperors back when they were ruling all of Fodlan, and 'approved' emperors had best excuse ever to play the 'divine mandate' card while they ruled), and here she is alone in her chambers, feeling that new Crest, the 'Goddess' Gift', eating away at her (implications only compared to Lysithea, but it seems clear that she is getting the nasty side-effects of two Crests too, if her siblings' fate is anything to go by), and a 'blessing' she owes to the butchering of her ten siblings (butchered in the sense of 'oh my Gygax one survivor out of eleven' by strange corpse-like mages not from the Empire (Lysithea could see as much while being younger than Edelgard was when she got cut open herself in the GD Route), on behalf of that ducktard Duke Aegir, her father's so-called prime minister, her own father made totally impotent in front of that situation, and given the timing of her 'trip' to Faerghus, she likely knows her 'uncle' Tharundel is complicit of that shitshow, and not a minor one (hell, the ducking Church knows that, it is in the Library).

 

And the Church has the gall of exalting Crests (not directly, but given how important they are to its mythos, it's pretty much the same thing), while condamning their disuse, with the so graphic example of Nemesis, and which has this army of knights seen as the continent's elite, this academy where everyone who matters in the continent's elite go, did jack shit to stop that situation. And given how heinous of a stuff her experience was, it has been going on with them doing nothing for a while. And if her at the top of the system got it so bad, imagine how it is lower on the political totem pole? Clearly Fodlan needs some serious change if that sort of shit is hapenning unopposed.

 

And knowing that Rhea=Immaculate could actually compound on that, because what use it is such a powerful figure and do nothing while your creed is denatured so totally?

 

Anyways, at this point, she hates the nobility and the Agarthans (name used for ease while I write that) for instigating that duck, and the Church for being complicit by inaction. Something which must quite egregious for a member of the Adrestian imperial line, who would feel that they are 'privileged' on that regard owing to that approbation I mentioned, and these six centuries and half of partnership in ruling Fodlan together before Loog (I'd say it's the Empire's fault for mismanaging to the point that war and the others happened, but try and tell that to people who lived knowing that statu quo existed for what we Earthers would know as thrice the time the Pax Romana lasted in Europe). Although there was some souring of the relationships in the recent decades (I guess the territorial losses of the Empire was a thing, but I also read about a 'Southern Church' which got disolved 120 years ago on the ground of having become the sort of ducktards the Western Church have become, is it true?), surely it does not justify given even an unspoken, tacit agreement to all of that shit by saying nothing?

 

At this point, I'd say the Agarthans want her to hate the Church even further, so she decides they are the enemy she goes after first rather than them, their heads on a pike being the sort of trophy buying her the legitimacy for her reforms of society and eventual confrontation with the Church on the subject of that rotten system and their inability to stop these creeps. But I do not think they talk to her outright, and especially not through Tharundel. Everyone here can agree on the fact Edelgard has trust issues, they are part of the reason she wants revolution through war, not diplomacy (I do think there is more to that, but that's for another thread someday). At what moment does this imply that she will trust the Agarthans' take on Fodlan's history, and especially the version of the 'uncle' who was the closest betrayer on a personal level. And she clearly never trusts them, pretty much every route shows she intends of squashing them the second they are not needed anymore, that's not the mindset to believe what they say about the past. But they can 'nudge' her in the right way.

 

At this point I guess Edelgard wants answers about the Agarthans, that horror below Enbarr cannot have been their first try at this sort of things, and maybe she is also beginning to scrutinize a bit closely how the Church behaved in history owing to that particular defaillance. The Agarthans cannot tell her their version, but they can make sure she 'founds' some books (they are crafting her into their anti-Rhea weapon, of course they are spying her from afar to make sure she doesn't do something they won't approve, and they can justify that through 'enforcing' the Seven's Little Putsch). No outright fabrications painting them in a good light or something, that would be stupid, and welp, they have been surviving in the shadows for millenia by that point, they can't be utterly brainless. No, more things like Claude's discoveries, like how the Church is doctoring Fodlan's history, enforcing a certain technological level, in words hints that they very much look like they are ruling Fodlan from the shadows, with maybe one mention or another of the Agarthans 'miraculously' preserved through that doctoring to show that the Church either knows or don't care, or know and is ineffectual in taking care of them, while perhaps reinforcing the image of the Agarthans as a Church opopnent, not stronger, but bigger than they look, and a potential tool in case of war with the corrupt Church perhaps...

 

(I do think it is at that moment Edelgard conceived her personal vision of Nemesis. If the Church lies and manipulates from shadows, then clearly it will lie in its own holy book to enforce its rule. And here is the 'fallen hero' Nemesis, the creed's ultimate foil. Well, maybe someone lied about it, so they could craft a history cementing their rule, like they censor humanity's history? And demonization of Nemesis is the likeliest and most obvious way the story would have been altered if someone was looking for that, under the logic that you want your lies as simple as possible, and borriwing as much as possible to the truth. Seriously, how many suspected the part about the Elites before it was revealed?)

 

The sort of things which would make the Church as a shadow behemoth pupeting Fodlan for their own interests. Anyhting they say and do looking more, so much more shady. And that's how you convince a future emperor of Adrestia of fighting your oldest enemy first with you as alllies of necessity, because the already faulty structure now looks like this shadow behemoth wihch has been ruling for centuries now. And it's not entirely untrue to boot.

 

If Edelgard truly knows about the Immaculate One, conclusions are easy to draw. If not, it is the sort of discovery perfect to 'crown' all these discoveries. And again, this particular revelation is too big for her to trust the Agarthans just saying so, especially once she is 'aware' of that shadow ruling. Two can play the game of writing history with a scalpel. She would have to be the one discovering that 'alone'. And to take the decision of going for the Agarthans for a partnership alone too, because if they make first move, the suspicions of them nudging her that way would be fierce.

 

Tl;dr, The Church posed itself as a moral guardian of society, actually looks like a shadow ruler with wider goals under deeper scrutiny, with the tools for enforcing such a rule, and proceded to do jack shit to correct the abuses of a system, being at the very best complicits by inaction, and they likely engineered or at the very least shaped at a few decisive moments the current social structure. Henceforth, they have to go in order to allow for something new, more sane and 'properly' between the hands of human to take their place.

 

PS: Sorry for the double post, I was working on that while the other posts happened.

Edited by Hardric62

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In whole game there is even single showcase of Rhea caring for crests or bloodlines (actually I am 70% sure she never even said word crest in whole game) . It's not that uncommon for nobles to marry commoners and she not just never shown problem with it, but schools rules actually encourage interactions between people of different status.

Even Eldegard claims of Rhea setting up Crest system is actually based on bigger  cover up of real creators. If Rhea needed blood she would clone All Children of Goddess, but she was fine with protecting their creststones much more crest stones then there is crests. Remember she isn't trying revive her kins. She completely depend on Sothis who is much more powerful then her to do so. 

And your argument in other hand is nothing but wild assumption based solely  on cinematic of Rhea being pissed on guy who killed her family

 

 

Edited by Tenzen12

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Just now, Tenzen12 said:

In whole game there is even single showcase of Rhea caring for crests or bloodlines. It's not that uncommon for nonles to marry commoners and she not just never shown problem with it, but schools rules actually encourage interactions between people of different status. 

Even Eldegard claims of Rhea setting up Crest system is actually based on bigger  cover up of real creators. 

If Rhea needed blood she would clone All Children of Goddess, but she was fine with protecting their creststones. 

And your argument in other hand is, nothing but wild assumption based on solely on cinematic of Rhea being pissed on guy who killed her family

 

 

 

...

 

She cared enough about her people and mother to enact a war of vengeance on their behalf, and those Crests and Relics are all is left of them. Seiros craddling the bloody Sword of the Creator before entombing it, would it ring a bell?

She is the supreme moral figure of Fodlan as this system establishes itself around her and goes on its way around her, and she has political tools, both hard and soft power, to enforce her will, and kill the abuses in the crib, both for threatening the order and peace she wants to establish and enforce and the 'disrespect' it implies for her people's remaining heritage, no matter how ghastly it is. Inaction is an action too, you know.

Ooookay, and how would she do that cloning exactly, especially given how well her attempts to resurrect Mommy are going so well? Also, her reaction to the thief of Crest Stones tell me that she very much sees things as the Relics and the likes as Nabateans' last memory. She clearly is... sensitive on that subject. And for what other reason would she spare Nemesis' cronies exactly?

The problem isn't her being righfully pissed off, it's her being in Seiros mode. We also see Seiros mode in Crimson Flower, and she is clearly in no mood for accepting redditions in that mode. And she also has zero problems with 'dick moves' as you said, such as burning Fhirdiad down with the people still inside for a tactical advantage. Tell me again, why would she spare people while being in that mindest?

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7 minutes ago, Hardric62 said:

The problem isn't her being righfully pissed off, it's her being in Seiros mode. We also see Seiros mode in Crimson Flower, and she is clearly in no mood for accepting redditions in that mode. And she also has zero problems with 'dick moves' as you said, such as burning Fhirdiad down with the people still inside for a tactical advantage. Tell me again, why would she spare people while being in that mindest?

She's lost it by that point, to be fair. And she has decent reason to be in that state, considering what Byleth pulled on her, siding with Edelgard after she desecrated the holy tomb, stealing both the sword of the creator and the heart of Sothis as a result; and then there's everything else that happens afterwards. She's kind of extreme to begin with for sure, but I think it's fair to say burning a whole city to the ground isn't something she'd do normally.

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Did she killed Nemesis for revenge? Hell yes! Was that war about vengeance? That certainly doesn't seem to be case. We saw what kind of person is Nemesis, he ravaged Zanado to obtain power for conquest with Wilhelm trying oppose him. Rhea and the saints gave him and his allies crests  joined war. That includes Seteth and Flayn v you know Seteth wouldn't endanger Flayn just for revenge.  Given both Seteth and Wilhelm (who she hold in high esteem even  almost thousand years later) were involved there is plenty of reasons why could negotiation take place instead continuing bloody war against elites). It was never one-woman show

Second there are no implications Rhea using military to threaten anyone and so far when it come soft power it was used only when things went out of control (like when Loog defeated Imperial forces, which is also only known event Church got involved. ) 

Edited by Tenzen12

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11 minutes ago, Cysx said:

She's lost it by that point, to be fair. And she has decent reason to be in that state, considering what Byleth pulled on her, siding with Edelgard after she desecrated the holy tomb, stealing both the sword of the creator and the heart of Sothis as a result; and then there's everything else that happens afterwards. She's kind of extreme to begin with for sure, but I think it's fair to say burning a whole city to the ground isn't something she'd do normally.

I never said that it was unjustified, just that it definitely looks like to me she is in a similar place mentally when you compare these two moments, cinematic and Crimson Flower. And given the sort of thing she does when we can see her in Crimson Flower, I can imagine the sort of stuff she is doing one thousand years and change ago in a similar situation. Even with the city burning as an extreme, she is clearly (and righfully) hungry for vengeance and blood, which is why I'm dubious about the sparing being all on her head.

 

Well, that and the fact Macuil was the one doing the tactical advising to her by that point too, and the dude is just as bitter about humans that Rhea shows in Seiros mode. And when spoken to in his paralogue, he is very much hateful of the Elites, dismissive of Seiros and humans after helping her in that war... My guess is that he lost the debate about the Elites with Cichol and Indech and left in disgust.

 

Oh, also,

 

1 minute ago, Tenzen12 said:

Did she killed Nemesis for revenge? Hell yes! Was that war about vengeance? That certainly doesn't seem to be case. We saw what kind of person is Nemesis, he ravaged Zanado to obtain power for conquest with Wilhelm trying oppose him. Rhea and the saints gave him and his allies crests  joined war. That includes Seteth and Flayn v you know Seteth wouldn't endanger Flayn just for revenge.  Given both Seteth and Wilhelm (who she hold in high esteem even  almost thousand years later) were involved there is plenty of reasons why could negotiation take place instead continuing bloody war against elites). 

Second there are no implications Rhea using military to threaten anyone and so far when it come soft power it was used only when things went out of control (like when Loog defeated Imperial forces, which is also only known event Church got involved. )

 

Given her reaction while killing him and her general behavior in Seiros mode? Hell yes, that was totally about vengeance for her, with some eventual mellowing out as Wilhelm showed himself as a better human being than Nemesis (not the highest bar ever). Because as I said above, Machuil was there helping her, and welp, given how 'chill' the dude is, he was only participating for vengeance, period. And given his general behavior, I'd say he would have ditched her the second something else than vengeance was in the picture.

 

Not that we know of, and she likes writing history books with scalpels, and the known overt use of soft power (the whole idea about soft power is that you generally don't need to actively leverage it, that's part of the reason why it is called that way) speaks of something else to me: of someone who wanted to enforce peace and order on Fodlan, and is failing.

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4 minutes ago, Hardric62 said:

I never said that it was unjustified, just that it definitely looks like to me she is in a similar place mentally when you compare these two moments, cinematic and Crimson Flower.

Oh, my bad, I misunderstood then.

... well to be fair, she does seem to be in a much better state of mind the instant her revenge has been enacted, that's also something the cutscene shows us. Imma let you two settle this one, though.

6 minutes ago, Hardric62 said:

Not that we know of, and she likes writing history books with scalpels,

Right, although for some reason, the main thing she did was glorifying Nemesis and co, apparently. I'm still not quite sure why.

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8 minutes ago, Cysx said:

Oh, my bad, I misunderstood then.

... well to be fair, she does seem to be in a much better state of mind the instant her revenge has been enacted, that's also something the cutscene shows us. Imma let you two settle this one, though.

Right, although for some reason, the main thing she did was glorifying Nemesis and co, apparently. I'm still not quite sure why.

 

did she do that?
or did history do that?
(i honestly don't remember. everything is muddled in my head right now in some sort of 3H soup). 

I find that Rhea let a lot of things go. (or honoured/gloried a lot of things) to keep the crest stones safe. 

 

in terms for Edelgard - i feel a lot of people touched on it - but i also fundamentally think - Edelgard just wanted all the power back in Empire's hands - because i personally feel she easily could have eliminted the crest system/church etc out of Adrestia vs. conquering all of Fodlan. 

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3 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

because i personally feel she easily could have eliminted the crest system/church etc out of Adrestia vs. conquering all of Fodlan. 

I mean, yea she obviously could've done that, but her goal is to dismantle the crest hierarchy completely, not just in the empire.

Also we wouldn't have a plot otherwise.

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Just now, daisy jane said:

 

in terms for Edelgard - i feel a lot of people touched on it - but i also fundamentally think - Edelgard just wanted all the power back in Empire's hands - because i personally feel she easily could have eliminted the crest system/church etc out of Adrestia vs. conquering all of Fodlan. 

 

Inside of Adrestia, yes, I guess, though there would be the need to fight the nobility and the Agarthans too for that (for instance, we don't know what she had to promise to get the Bergliez and hevrings back to her side over Aegir).

That being said, was Rhea supposed to look at that emperor crowning herself without her taking an axe to core points of her creed and the social order she was supporting and do nothing? Because she is definitely not the sort to do nothing in front of that, and frankly, if her system get contested and destroyed on such a large scale, the position she has been using to ruling Fodlan (even if it's distant rule) is as good as done. And the only authority Rhea acknowledges as 'knowing better' than her is Mama Sothis...

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10 minutes ago, Hunter Nightblood said:

I mean, yea she obviously could've done that, but her goal is to dismantle the crest hierarchy completely, not just in the empire.

Also we wouldn't have a plot otherwise.

well yeah - but i mean that's generally the thing, hence we have the whole "if everyone talked to everyone." issue. 
In Edelgard's eyes crests are wrong. and how the nobles use it to either become noble/get rich - that's why Sylvain, Marianne, Mercedes, etc have been treated like broodmares. but Crests aren't fundamentally wrong (imo) - which is what Lindhardt points out in several of his supports - and that's why I personally think Edelgard is wrong (though i wholeheardtly see where she is coming from given her life experiences) about the thing. 
 

as i've said (and it was sort of tongue in cheek but also legitimately curious) we never hear once how Edelgard is going to eliminate crests. we keep saying "Crest System." (because crests are with nobles), but Lin + Hannenman have stated that crests can pop up outside of noble lines. they are relatively stronger with noble connections (and we still have the question of how Catherine + Felix have major crests where everyone outside of Flayn + Seteth have minor ones). We know that the blood rehab stuff is dangerous and painful (to transplant a crest) but whose to say removing them isn't equally as painful (and life limiting - as seen with Lysithea + Linhardt's supports). 

so yah sure.
Part 1: Unite Fodlan under Adrestia and Humans. Check
Part 2: Destroy Nobility, and it's just Edel as Emperor nothing else. Check. 
Part 3: Destroy crests. HOW?

that's the thing that will always make me side-eye Edelgard. she caused a whole war on the removal of something - that while caused people a lot being miserable for how they were regarded (so sure address that) - it doesnt; mean particularly the thing they have is wrong/bad/needs to be removed at all. and i don't think a war needed to be had to address that. 

9 minutes ago, Hardric62 said:

 

Inside of Adrestia, yes, I guess, though there would be the need to fight the nobility and the Agarthans too for that (for instance, we don't know what she had to promise to get the Bergliez and hevrings back to her side over Aegir).

That being said, was Rhea supposed to look at that emperor crowning herself without her taking an axe to core points of her creed and the social order she was supporting and do nothing? Because she is definitely not the sort to do nothing in front of that, and frankly, if her system get contested and destroyed on such a large scale, the position she has been using to ruling Fodlan (even if it's distant rule) is as good as done. And the only authority Rhea acknowledges as 'knowing better' than her is Mama Sothis...

 

lol that's true. We know how Rhea acts. lol
activate Serios Mode...

Edited by daisy jane

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Just now, Hunter Nightblood said:

I might need to go back to the cutscene viewer to verify this, but is her goal to destroy Crests or the Crest hierarchy?

 

i will have to go back to the viewer as well. 
but she isn't fond of crests, sees crests as the problem as well as how they are deployed. 
so while I will totally take ownership my questions is sort of re-working Edelgard in her mission statements (as they are right now) - I do feel the underlying issue is how she views crests as well as everything else, so i guess my feeling is - how is that gonna be addressed in her new world order? especially if someone decides to pull an Edelgard and wants the crest system to be reestablished or something)

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13 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

as i've said (and it was sort of tongue in cheek but also legitimately curious) we never hear once how Edelgard is going to eliminate crests. we keep saying "Crest System." (because crests are with nobles), but Lin + Hannenman have stated that crests can pop up outside of noble lines. they are relatively stronger with noble connections (and we still have the question of how Catherine + Felix have major crests where everyone outside of Flayn + Seteth have minor ones). We know that the blood rehab stuff is dangerous and painful (to transplant a crest) but whose to say removing them isn't equally as painful (and life limiting - as seen with Lysithea + Linhardt's supports).

On the one hand, I could easily see her tasking Linhardt and/or Hanneman with finding a SAFE way to remove crests. She definitely wouldn't subject people to a process like what she went through, since part of the point is that she doesn't want anyone else to go through that. On the other, she doesn't HAVE to remove crests literally, all she needs to do is lessen their value through social reform. She doesn't want the possession or lack thereof of a crest to be the be-all-end-all of people's existence. Hence wanting to establish a meritocracy, so that people are put in positions they're actually good at.

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28 minutes ago, Hunter Nightblood said:

I mean, yea she obviously could've done that, but her goal is to dismantle the crest hierarchy completely, not just in the empire.

Also we wouldn't have a plot otherwise.

Actually this is blatantly false. In the support with Sylvain he points out that Rhea wanted to take away his family's weapons but that they refuse to give it to her. So Rhea did try to get back the Crest stones but the nobles don't want to give them up. 

 

Also you have to consider why the lie exists, in order to hide where the Crest stones and crests come from. Because if people knew the truth then they'd just repeat the actions of the Agarthans no different from what Edelgard did. 

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