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mangasdeouf

FE Awakening, res is a myth, this game is a hack n'slash

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Hi,

I think something is really wrong with FE13. Not something like durability, gold costs, shops upgrading far too slowly compared with the ennemies' weapons (like when you have access to steel while the ennemies get silvers and you get silver or killer when they get braves...), beast stones being a myth before chapter 10/12 and dragonstone being barely enough before beating Gangrel (just before getting access to the shop that sells them...a shop selling transformation stones...for real?). That's certainly a stupid design but Awakening wasn't a game for logic, coherence. It was a game for fans and new comers to enjoy and play with adaptive difficulty (with really high gaps between each difficulty and the return of FE6 stupid EP reinforcements).

No, what I'm addressing here and now is...THE most awfully balanced stat. I mean, RESISTANCE. You know, a stat very useful for late game, mid game and not deniable for early game when ennemies power creep each chapter before staying still for 5 consecutive chapter just before the mid game power creep. When you take damage from physical ennemies while magical attackers take out 1/2 of your HP in one attack. With D ranks.

Cordelia, your bulky offensive pegasus, has 90% in HP, 60% in str, skl and spd, 45% in luck and def and...35% in res, starting with 8 res level 7. Level 20 she'll have on average 12.55 res. Level 20/20 Falcon knight she'll have 17.1 res not counting promotion bonus. Magical ennemies in late game deal 35-40 damage easily, even the ones who use 10 range tomes hit more 30-35 without difficulty. A pegasus, class made to tank magic damage and kill mages before they slaughter your whole team, takes 20 damage on average from each of those mages who manages to hit her.

Sumia starts at 7 res level 1 and has 40% res. Level 20/20 she has an average of 22 res without promotion bonuses. Still taking 15 damage per hit on average in late game.

Maribelle has 6+2 level 3 and 55% growth, average of 25.8+2 as a troubadour/walkyrie level 20/20 without promo bonus, and 24.whatever+2 as a war cleric. A unit whose only defensive stat is res still takes 12 damage on average in late game, and her 18 base HP and 65% growth don't let her the pleasure to face tank magic while any physical ennemy can come in and finish her at 60% HP (15% def growth as a valkyrie and 20 as a war cleric, 75% hp as a war cleric).

Lissa is even worse: starting at 4 res, with 50% growth as a cleric and downgrading to 45% after promotion, she has 22 res on average without promotion bonuses, with 70% hp growth as a cleric/sage and 80% as a war cleric. She's a healer with the same res as a physical unit (Sumia) in end game, starting with less res than said unit.

Nowi has 2+9 res with dragonstone and starts at 18 HP, with 50% res growth. On average level 30 she has 16.5+9 res (25.5), the same as Maribelle before res +2. She doesn't get any promotion bonus. Even your hybrid hyper tank has only 60% magic damage reduction without abusing seals.

This game was completely balanced around multi-reclassing instead of being balanced to be enjoyable with base classes and normal gameplay. You can't even choose to de-activate the attack stance mechanic, so if you wanna play old school, you loose your support bonuses.

Avoid has been severely cut, with spd *1.5 instead of 2 and luck *.05 instead of 1.

So in a normal game you have your highest dodge/res magical tank/mage killers who take 40-55% of the damage magic attackers deal and they have 37+2 spd 30 luck (Sumia), 39*1.5= 58.5; 30*0.5=15; 58+15=73 avoid. The ennemies who target Sumia have ~140% hit rate, they are higher than 60% hit rate.

Awakening has craptastic res levels even on the highest res units, and res growth per class is incredibly low: 10% for pegasus, 5% for mercenary, like pegasi and mercenaries were supposed to have nearly the same res...seriously?

Nowi at 50% res! Myrrh had 7 base res +20 in FE8with 30% growth at level 1! Fae had 6 base res +20 with 50% growth in FE6! Nowi is pure trash compared to these! Not only on the res part, but also on the def with 2+15 base for Fae with 30% growth and 2+15 base for Myrrh with 150% growth! These manaketes barely took any damage from unpromoted ennemies in their joining map (at least Myrrh since I didn't go so far in FE6, too boring, maps are too big you spend entire turns just walking), while Nowi get 2 shot in her joining map with Gregor backpack increasing her def and more base HP! Her only good point is having more uses of dragonstone and getting dragonstone + by the end of the game, not salvaging her awful start and unability to do anything once she inevitably breaks her first dragonstone while levelling up to get on par with your other units without getting any kind of bonus exp (no paragon, no exp *1.5 or other kinds of bonuses from GBA games), unlike the GBA manaketes who could reach level 20 in 19-30 fights and keep 20 uses at max level to kill the most dangerous ennemies, while having no 2 range allowed them to tank ranged attacks without loosing durability; Nowi hits at 2 range, and thus looses durability  so she breaks her dragonstone much faster than the other 2).

Even Tiki, with 12+9 base (normal dragonstone, not counting dragonstone +), only reached 18+9 (27) res while having the highest res growth of all of Awakening's cast, simply she joins already at level 20, not helping much, and her recruitment chapter on anything above normal is really annoying, with late game level ennemies, every one of them flying, packing on your weakest units with 40+ damage each while you had to maintain a turtle-like formation to take the incoming ennemies out and then go kill the next ones before coming back to turtle again and again for like 10+ turns before you can finally end that pain by rushing the boss with your best units and torture them to make them pay for this awful level design they have nothing to do with (thanks Intelligent Systems/Nintendo devs for this game so purely made of brute force and suicide, it feels like playing The Lord of the Rings instead of watching it, but you don't have many parts where you can kill the boss to end the chapter).

This game is a pain for these reasons, and I miss my magic nullifying units each time I play awakening without playing dread fighter. Oh man, why did they put so much damage AND accuracy on every single magic ennemy in the game? The prologue already sends you to hospital with it's mages.

If you have tips on how to get a mage killer invulnerable to magic without using second seals like 3x in a row or having 10+ levels more than the ennemies (well it's the same since you have 10+ levels more than them at that point) with the rare anti magic units. And without nosferatu involved because it breaks the game by existing and being buyable from chapter 4 onward as long as you have gold...

For me it's like, let your mage killer behind and send them kill the mages, until you get to Valm and the mages become dark knights who tank all damage better than your units tank theirs... and you've got to risk your more physical oriented units to finish them off cuz your mage killer left them at 40-50% HP...

So in the end, I say "F*** off, this game is not a T-RPG, it's a hack n'slash, just grind your way through the 50 ennemies who deal 70% of your damage each and come 5 by 5 on each of your units". It always ends like that. I'm not into puzzles. At least I finished this game twice. I didn't even get to the 2/3rd of Fates because it has no story to keep me in and gameplay also becomes boring or map design annoying at certain points, and I quit because I'm bored. I did FE8 like...15 times from the beginning to the end, 10x creature campaign, completed lagdou ruins so many times I don't even recall (I was into min-maxing my units), stopped more than 50 playthrough during mid game and hundreds around chapter 6-12 but I can't even get to chapter 19/20 of Fates and Awakening becomes boring during the Valm arc, and ends up completely boring after the Valm arc, when you don't even feel like there's a point in continuing to play, because any random encounter is harder than the main game anyway, DLC are harder, and unit balance is just about who get the most second seals and the best skills.

I feel like Fire Emblem has gone out of it's genre, Awakening being the one at fault for taking a 180° bend from Fire Emblem, downgrading everything introduced in the Tellius series (rabbit is worse than anything in Tellius games, I even preferred the herons although I hate dancer-like units outside Fates), the height/balcony bonus/malus has vanished, the indoor movement malus to mounted units has vanished, allowing mounts to return to their all around domination in rushing tactics and in Fates cavaliers even benefit from elbow room, one of the most OP free damage skills in the game, and they have it from level 1. Transformation takes no management again, has no drawbacks unless weapon durability is a drawback (more for Taguel than Manakete who can buy dragonstone + anyway from the beginning), so manaketes can freely attack/counter at 1/2 range, I feel like this game just wants you to play the same way as in a hack n'slash: maximize your sustain and damage, and go slaughter waves of ennemies after waves of ennemies. Team building is limited by open maps with a mix of flying ennemies, cavalry and foot units, meaning you can barely use squishy supports from the Valm arc onward, you have nothing to answer the 10 sages/sorcerers with 10 range tomes too far for you to reach, while they can eat half of your units' HP in one attack or 2 while being virtually invulnerable until they have used all their durability and become useless.

So, now I'll literally play Awakening like I play Diablo 2 and 3, grind and slaughter waves of ennemies who now can't scratch you anymore cuz the game allows and encourages you to be 20+ levels above your ennemies. And forge like your life depends on it, because 1RKO means less possibility to be RNG-screwed.

End of...is it even a rant?

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1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

You can't even choose to de-activate the attack stance mechanic, so if you wanna play old school, you loose your support bonuses.

Except you still get the support bonuses if you're adjacent to someone you have a support with - you know, like in the old school games.

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You clearly have not played many strategy rpg. Many of them are about building super strong units. The disgaea series and the FFT series most notably. 

If you want to play a game at it's maximum difficulty while ignoring certain mechanics because you don't like them, it's not the devoloper fault if the experience is frustrating. Lunatic damage is obviously balanced around the fact that you have infinite levels and a % of completely nullify damage. Not using those things on lunatic is a very hard self imposed challenge that should only be attemped if you know the game perfectly. The counter of mages exist, you are refusing to use it and are complining because the game does not allow you to ignore core mechanics at it's hardest difficulty.

"FF7 suck because it's frustrating and you can't use magic whitout Materia that were not in the first 6 games."

"Pokemon Sun and Moon suck because i did a no pokecenter, no exp share nuzlelocke on day one and totem Lurantis wiped me."

"Shin megami tensei Nocturne suck because you can't deactivate the stupid press turn system and i can't beat Matadot whitout grinding or using it."

And what route of fates are you even playing? You can't Diablo conquest for sure.

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Resistance has never been a stat in common supply throughout the series. You're obsessing over a stat that's meant to be low, as part of how magic works and is balanced around. You may as well obsess over why units have more HP than any other stat.

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1. In old school games (GBA and GBC/WII) you could benefit from support bonuses 3 tiles away, and attack stance didn't exist on top of not being forced (Fates automatically looks for attack stance and Awakening still has a % chance of it activating, so unless you keep your units disarmed you'll end up doing random dual attacks even if you don't want to.

2. Not speaking of Lunatic, I didn't get passed mid game lunatic, I didn't see the point. Frustrating gameplay and counter everywhere. Even in hard late game mages deal 35-40 damage. And with your best mage tanks having 27 res...well unless you second seal for 20 more levels, you're not close to tanking mages. And no, mages weren't made to damage everyone. Should I recall you how many units in GBA/Tellius FE could face tank 15 mages without taking 10% of their HP as damage? Well, 70% of your magic units, 80% of your pegasi/falcos, all your manaketes, all your high res Laguz. 1/3rd of your cast could face tank as many mages as they wanted without a scratch. Meanwhile they would be slaughtered by anything physical. That's fine. What's not fine is when these mage killers can't face tank 2 mages without loosing 1/3rd to 2/3rds of their HP depending on the level difference, while they are still vulnerable to physical attacks. Now they're just bad glass cannons who can't dodge anything because everyone and his mom has 140 accuracy without acc +20, while your 20/20 unit has 70-75 avoid at best. At least Tellius knew what dodge tank means. I shouldn't have to rely on bad skills like Lucky 7, quick burn or slow burn to dodge. The only class that gives +10 avoid in any conditions is myrmidon, a class you don't want to stay too long into because it hits like wet noodle while having no 1-2 physical weapon.

I shouldn't have to rely on loosing a unit on the battlefield by pairing it up to patch another unit's stat, each unit should have it's own boons and banes and be able to do well in their niche. Mage killers gotta tank mages otherwise they're just poor assassins who can't take 2 hits from anything and whose dodge is dogsh*t.

3. OFC I want my units to have res if they're meant to tank magic. Troubadours, clerics and pegasi were specially made to tank magic damage. If they can't then they're just supports who can't do sh*t except stay 2 miles from any ennemy unit and staff bot or rescue/drop. If no one tanks magic, then magic is OP. Ennmy anti magic units have nearly the same res as your units, except their strat is to go kamikaze so if you don't kill them in 1 fight, you wll loose in no time by being surrounded.  You need 50 magic damage and 35+ speed to  ORKO all your ennemies until very late in the game. They need 2 mages with 40 damage to halve the HP of you highest res unit, and 1 physical attacker alone to put her (most likely a girl since except Libra males with res are a myth in Awakening) into the <30% HP zone, meaning 1 or 2 mages + 1 physical unit can kill your res tank, while old FE had you tank 2 physical hits and whatever number of magic hits in between, the job was only done by the physical units. High res units are supposed to be magical generals/wyvern lords, but instead they're just...there...doing nothing except staff botting, and even then their magic isn't even good except your mage>sage staff bot (Miriel). In the end you better rely on self healing than using two shot material for healing, especially in bad maps like chapter 16 (Mila's Tree), where your squishie get surrounded and killed in 1 or 2 turns. I simply let go of my healers once Valm arc starts because they just get killed by encirclement of flyers/cavalry in all of Valm and then they're so underlevelled that they become useless and one shottable.

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27 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

1. In old school games (GBA and GBC/WII) you could benefit from support bonuses 3 tiles away, and attack stance didn't exist on top of not being forced (Fates automatically looks for attack stance and Awakening still has a % chance of it activating, so unless you keep your units disarmed you'll end up doing random dual attacks even if you don't want to.

2. Not speaking of Lunatic, I didn't get passed mid game lunatic, I didn't see the point. Frustrating gameplay and counter everywhere. Even in hard late game mages deal 35-40 damage. And with your best mage tanks having 27 res...well unless you second seal for 20 more levels, you're not close to tanking mages. And no, mages weren't made to damage everyone. Should I recall you how many units in GBA/Tellius FE could face tank 15 mages without taking 10% of their HP as damage? Well, 70% of your magic units, 80% of your pegasi/falcos, all your manaketes, all your high res Laguz. 1/3rd of your cast could face tank as many mages as they wanted without a scratch. Meanwhile they would be slaughtered by anything physical. That's fine. What's not fine is when these mage killers can't face tank 2 mages without loosing 1/3rd to 2/3rds of their HP depending on the level difference, while they are still vulnerable to physical attacks. Now they're just bad glass cannons who can't dodge anything because everyone and his mom has 140 accuracy without acc +20, while your 20/20 unit has 70-75 avoid at best. At least Tellius knew what dodge tank means. I shouldn't have to rely on bad skills like Lucky 7, quick burn or slow burn to dodge. The only class that gives +10 avoid in any conditions is myrmidon, a class you don't want to stay too long into because it hits like wet noodle while having no 1-2 physical weapon.

I shouldn't have to rely on loosing a unit on the battlefield by pairing it up to patch another unit's stat, each unit should have it's own boons and banes and be able to do well in their niche. Mage killers gotta tank mages otherwise they're just poor assassins who can't take 2 hits from anything and whose dodge is dogsh*t.

3. OFC I want my units to have res if they're meant to tank magic. Troubadours, clerics and pegasi were specially made to tank magic damage. If they can't then they're just supports who can't do sh*t except stay 2 miles from any ennemy unit and staff bot or rescue/drop. If no one tanks magic, then magic is OP. Ennmy anti magic units have nearly the same res as your units, except their strat is to go kamikaze so if you don't kill them in 1 fight, you wll loose in no time by being surrounded.  You need 50 magic damage and 35+ speed to  ORKO all your ennemies until very late in the game. They need 2 mages with 40 damage to halve the HP of you highest res unit, and 1 physical attacker alone to put her (most likely a girl since except Libra males with res are a myth in Awakening) into the <30% HP zone, meaning 1 or 2 mages + 1 physical unit can kill your res tank, while old FE had you tank 2 physical hits and whatever number of magic hits in between, the job was only done by the physical units. High res units are supposed to be magical generals/wyvern lords, but instead they're just...there...doing nothing except staff botting, and even then their magic isn't even good except your mage>sage staff bot (Miriel). In the end you better rely on self healing than using two shot material for healing, especially in bad maps like chapter 16 (Mila's Tree), where your squishie get surrounded and killed in 1 or 2 turns. I simply let go of my healers once Valm arc starts because they just get killed by encirclement of flyers/cavalry in all of Valm and then they're so underlevelled that they become useless and one shottable.

Why would you want to not have an extra attack?

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34 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

1. In old school games (GBA and GBC/WII) you could benefit from support bonuses 3 tiles away, and attack stance didn't exist on top of not being forced (Fates automatically looks for attack stance and Awakening still has a % chance of it activating, so unless you keep your units disarmed you'll end up doing random dual attacks even if you don't want to.

I'm not talking about Pair Up, what I said was that you can get stat bonuses outside of Pair Up, just like in the old school games. So, if I put Robin and Maribelle next to each other on different tiles, and they have a support with each other, they'll get bonuses from the other (Robin from Maribelle, and Maribelle from Robin) if either one of them gets attacked (again, just like what would happen in earlier games in the series).

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Why would you want to not have an extra attack?

From the sounds of it, he's complaining that it makes the game too easy/trivial. He's six or so years too late, but that doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I'm not talking about Pair Up, what I said was that you can get stat bonuses outside of Pair Up, just like in the old school games. So, if I put Robin and Maribelle next to each other on different tiles, and they have a support with each other, they'll get bonuses from the other (Robin from Maribelle, and Maribelle from Robin) if either one gets attacked (again, just like what would happen in earlier games in the series).

Me neither, I was talking about bonus combat stats (+hit, +crit, etc). They don't happen with supports unless you're using attack/guard stance. Instead of having 3 range.

From the sounds of it, he's complaining that it makes the game too easy/trivial. He's six or so years too late, but that doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest.

Is it bad to not like the fact that you can attack with a partner? Should I find it fine that my unit can attack 5x per turn, once on it's own, 4x with attack stance? I find it stupid and game breaking. Ennemies being able to do that in Fates in particularly disgusting, like the ones who bring a ninja or seal speed/def with them just for your unit to get ganged up on and attacked 10x because of attack stance. I don't want my units to attack in duo, I want each unit to be a separate individual, helped by others' support aura (old school support system). The only case where attack stance is good is when you want to train Ests. Otherwise pair up and attack stance aren't at my taste. Because Awakening's RNG guard/dual attack system is trash, while Fates system is more accurate and predictable but doesn't bring anything positive to the game. Only forcing ennemies to use it as well and abuse it (like the Hard gold DLC in Fates with 2 paired up samurais with Life and Death, they have dodge, they have speed and damage)

All in all, we shouldn't be forced to play with it. I'd like an option to activate/de-activate it, simply put, and getting back my old rescue system where you had to pay to rescue a unit, loosing stats instead of gaining them, and having everyone able to rescue or push and a few smite. I think Tellius refined the gameplay mechanics to it's best and should have been the base of the new generations of FE games, instead of going back to FE6 which had the worst GBA mechanics since it was the 1st on GBA (FE6 and Fates RNG, FE6 EP reinforcements...). We lost terrain management -bonus/malus involving the ground level, shove/smite, coming back modified only to complicate things in Fates, Awakening didn't even have any class bonus stats like +15 crit. The class balance is a joke. Hero has everything a foot unit wants and a mix of paladin and GK has everything a mounted unit wants. Swordmaster is a joke, griffon rider is unimpressive as a class while having double weakness and only 1 weapon access. Sorcerors and dark knights are straight up broken OP.

I won't even play Three Houses because the academia simulator and slice of life doesn't interest me and I won't buy the Switch for a game that barely reminds me anything of FE, especially of previous house consoles FEs (these being Tellius games), even though the models seem very pleasant, It seems to take another step into fan service and anime. Just I'd love if they could have put the brigades in previous FE to see you're not using 5 people but actually 5 squads in a war. FE should have waited for Switch to use 3D, because everything downgraded from the GBA games where the magic animations were very good and fluid (Radiant Dawn had nice magic animations but 3D was disgusting) and the models were beautiful for the graphics of the console. Finally Three Houses has good graphics in battle (although the art style is bland as ****).

 

I still play 3DS FEs but I'm so depressed at the things they completely failed or obliterated...not enjoying them like I was competely taken into RD the 1st time I played it as much in the story as in the gameplay and characters/units. Awakening's lack of magic damage tanks is really annoying and second seal system is so bad compared with Shadow Dragon and Fates reclassment...just leading to power creep grinding...it's sad...replaying Awakening feels like playing Diablo 2/3, just choosing a build and bashing mobs of ennemies. 0 story involvement passed the 1st reading and hype, Awakening has like very few mechanics, not far from Shadows of Valentia, and Fates has so complicated mechanics that it's a pain. If RD was on portable devices I'd be able to play it everywhere, but I'm forced to play it on PC or WII, so I rarely play it.

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5 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

All in all, we shouldn't be forced to play with it. I'd like an option to activate/de-activate it, simply put, and getting back my old rescue system where you had to pay to rescue a unit, loosing stats instead of gaining them, and having everyone able to rescue or push and a few smite. I think Tellius refined the gameplay mechanics to it's best and should have been the base of the new generations of FE games, instead of going back to FE6 which had the worst GBA mechanics since it was the 1st on GBA (FE6 and Fates RNG, FE6 EP reinforcements...). We lost terrain management -bonus/malus involving the ground level, shove/smite, coming back modified only to complicate things in Fates, Awakening didn't even have any class bonus stats like +15 crit. The class balance is a joke. Hero has everything a foot unit wants and a mix of paladin and GK has everything a mounted unit wants. Swordmaster is a joke, griffon rider is unimpressive as a class while having double weakness and only 1 weapon access. Sorcerors and dark knights are straight up broken OP.

I won't even play Three Houses because the academia simulator and slice of life doesn't interest me and I won't buy the Switch for a game that barely reminds me anything of FE, especially of previous house consoles FEs (these being Tellius games), even though the models seem very pleasant, It seems to take another step into fan service and anime. Just I'd love if they could have put the brigades in previous FE to see you're not using 5 people but actually 5 squads in a war. FE should have waited for Switch to use 3D, because everything downgraded from the GBA games where the magic animations were very good and fluid (Radiant Dawn had nice magic animations but 3D was disgusting) and the models were beautiful for the graphics of the console. Finally Three Houses has good graphics in battle (although the art style is bland as ****).

 

I still play 3DS FEs but I'm so depressed at the things they completely failed or obliterated...not enjoying them like I was competely taken into RD the 1st time I played it as much in the story as in the gameplay and characters/units. Awakening's lack of magic damage tanks is really annoying and second seal system is so bad compared with Shadow Dragon and Fates reclassment...just leading to power creep grinding...it's sad...replaying Awakening feels like playing Diablo 2/3, just choosing a build and bashing mobs of ennemies. 0 story involvement passed the 1st reading and hype, Awakening has like very few mechanics, not far from Shadows of Valentia, and Fates has so complicated mechanics that it's a pain. If RD was on portable devices I'd be able to play it everywhere, but I'm forced to play it on PC or WII, so I rarely play it.

Well you're entitled to your opinion. But Awakening sold a billion copies so you're in the minority.

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8 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Me neither, I was talking about bonus combat stats (+hit, +crit, etc). They don't happen with supports unless you're using attack/guard stance

*Pulls out his copy of Awakening*

So my Robin and Maribelle have an A support with each other. I'm going to put them side by side and neither of them in Pair up to see what happens in terms of bonuses.

*Hit +10, Avoid+10, Critical+10, Dodge+10*

 

I believe the phrase I'm looking for is "You fail!".

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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I'm gonna be blunt - you are absolutely clueless if you're comparing Awakening to Diablo. They're entirely different games. 

13 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

2. Not speaking of Lunatic, I didn't get passed mid game lunatic, I didn't see the point. Frustrating gameplay and counter everywhere. Even in hard late game mages deal 35-40 damage. And with your best mage tanks having 27 res...well unless you second seal for 20 more levels, you're not close to tanking mages. And no, mages weren't made to damage everyone. Should I recall you how many units in GBA/Tellius FE could face tank 15 mages without taking 10% of their HP as damage? Well, 70% of your magic units, 80% of your pegasi/falcos, all your manaketes, all your high res Laguz. 1/3rd of your cast could face tank as many mages as they wanted without a scratch. Meanwhile they would be slaughtered by anything physical. That's fine. What's not fine is when these mage killers can't face tank 2 mages without loosing 1/3rd to 2/3rds of their HP depending on the level difference, while they are still vulnerable to physical attacks. Now they're just bad glass cannons who can't dodge anything because everyone and his mom has 140 accuracy without acc +20, while your 20/20 unit has 70-75 avoid at best. At least Tellius knew what dodge tank means. I shouldn't have to rely on bad skills like Lucky 7, quick burn or slow burn to dodge. The only class that gives +10 avoid in any conditions is myrmidon, a class you don't want to stay too long into because it hits like wet noodle while having no 1-2 physical weapon.

You DO realize most of the games you mentioned happen to be on the easy side...??? And that in the Tellius saga, magic got nerfed? Also, most laguz tend to have poor resistance, other than the herons, which cannot fight, and thus you shouldn't allow to get attacked anyway, so claiming that laguz are good answers to mages is incorrect, especially since they are vulnerable to certain magic types.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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10 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

All in all, we shouldn't be forced to play with it. I'd like an option to activate/de-activate it, simply put, and getting back my old rescue system where you had to pay to rescue a unit, loosing stats instead of gaining them, and having everyone able to rescue or push and a few smite. I think Tellius refined the gameplay mechanics to it's best and should have been the base of the new generations of FE games, instead of going back to FE6 which had the worst GBA mechanics since it was the 1st on GBA (FE6 and Fates RNG, FE6 EP reinforcements...). We lost terrain management -bonus/malus involving the ground level, shove/smite, coming back modified only to complicate things in Fates, Awakening didn't even have any class bonus stats like +15 crit. The class balance is a joke. Hero has everything a foot unit wants and a mix of paladin and GK has everything a mounted unit wants. Swordmaster is a joke, griffon rider is unimpressive as a class while having double weakness and only 1 weapon access. Sorcerors and dark knights are straight up broken OP.

I won't even play Three Houses because the academia simulator and slice of life doesn't interest me and I won't buy the Switch for a game that barely reminds me anything of FE, especially of previous house consoles FEs (these being Tellius games), even though the models seem very pleasant, It seems to take another step into fan service and anime. Just I'd love if they could have put the brigades in previous FE to see you're not using 5 people but actually 5 squads in a war. FE should have waited for Switch to use 3D, because everything downgraded from the GBA games where the magic animations were very good and fluid (Radiant Dawn had nice magic animations but 3D was disgusting) and the models were beautiful for the graphics of the console. Finally Three Houses has good graphics in battle (although the art style is bland as ****).

 

I still play 3DS FEs but I'm so depressed at the things they completely failed or obliterated...not enjoying them like I was competely taken into RD the 1st time I played it as much in the story as in the gameplay and characters/units. Awakening's lack of magic damage tanks is really annoying and second seal system is so bad compared with Shadow Dragon and Fates reclassment...just leading to power creep grinding...it's sad...replaying Awakening feels like playing Diablo 2/3, just choosing a build and bashing mobs of ennemies. 0 story involvement passed the 1st reading and hype, Awakening has like very few mechanics, not far from Shadows of Valentia, and Fates has so complicated mechanics that it's a pain. If RD was on portable devices I'd be able to play it everywhere, but I'm forced to play it on PC or WII, so I rarely play it.

We should always be forced to use ALL game mechanics on the hardest difficulty, it's a flaw of the game if we are not. And we should still be greatly encoraged to use them on any other difficulty. A game should be balanced around the player using at least somewhat competently all the tools they have to get stronger, because if it's balanced around not using them, the game became a joke when you are efficient. There are many examples of that.

 If you don't like pair up don't play awakening, but the whole game is built on the expectation that pair up wilm be used, so it's only natural if mages hit you hard whitout a pair up that mitigate that. And it's not like pegasus riders and priests became useless lol.

 

Edited by Flere210

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12 hours ago, Jotari said:

1. In old school games (GBA and GBC/WII) you could benefit from support bonuses 3 tiles away, and attack stance didn't exist on top of not being forced (Fates automatically looks for attack stance and Awakening still has a % chance of it activating, so unless you keep your units disarmed you'll end up doing random dual attacks even if you don't want to.

Counterpoint: In those games, building supports wasn't as easy, especially in the GBA games where you had to tether two units together for a bunch of turns just to unlock ONE of, let alone the five supports a unit could have.

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53 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Counterpoint: In those games, building supports wasn't as easy, especially in the GBA games where you had to tether two units together for a bunch of turns just to unlock ONE of, let alone the five supports a unit could have.

Cool...but how did you end up quoting me when someone else said that?

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5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Cool...but how did you end up quoting me when someone else said that?

I ended up quoting the message from your post where you quoted the OP. Oops.

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23 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

The only class that gives +10 avoid in any conditions is myrmidon, a class you don't want to stay too long into because it hits like wet noodle while having no 1-2 physical weapon.

If you visit the main site, and look at all the swords in Awakening, you'll find that there are three swords that have 1-2 range: Levin Sword, Amatsu and Ragnell.

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On 9/9/2019 at 3:57 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

If you visit the main site, and look at all the swords in Awakening, you'll find that there are three swords that have 1-2 range: Levin Sword, Amatsu and Ragnell.

You know what? Levin sword is not a physical sword, Amatsu is a unique sword with very limited uses that happens to drop from a boss who wil use it so you don't even get the full durability, and Ragnell isn't a common sword, let alone the fact it is far from being a C rank sword. Hell even in the Spotpass content you don't get any 1-2 physical sword. You can only get Ragnell in Priam's paralogue, which means after you got enhanced Falchion. You won't use it a lot for main game, that's for sure (especially if Priam's paralogue is harder than all of the main game, seeing how in normal mode the conqueror's paralogue was harder than 90% of hard mode main game). So Ragnell is out of it, Levin sword isn't physical, Amatsu has no more than 30 uses (if you even get a chance at looting it unused, meaning either you one shot the boss which means heavy grinding or lucky RNG crit/skill activation, or you grinded like hell so you could already complete the game with 1 unit at that point).

Attack stance I may have used badly, I mean when you attack while having one or several allies on adjacent tiles. Still a lot weaker than 1-3 support bonus range. And in RD you just had to talk to each other once, and maybe use rescue/shove and stay for 5 turns a chapter close to one another in order to gain 1 support level, either way it wasn't harder than in Awakening and Fates while the range of support was clearly far more beneficial (and double earth gave 30 avoid, something you don't see commonly in Awakening and Fates, I didn't look at marriage support bonuses but it seems highly doubtful, and it doesn't change the fact Radiant Dawn had tripple digits avoid numbers without any support, my Mia reached 115 or 120 avoid without any stat booster already, not needing to learn a skill to have acceptable avoid at base, and the way weight worked in Tellius allowed most units to overcome heavy weapons' drawbacks, allowing everyone to use the strongest weapons by end game, not only manly men with +7-9 base speed and +4 con favoritism like Gerik/Moulder/Duessel's +2 leading him to 15).

On 9/8/2019 at 2:29 PM, Shadow Mir said:

I'm gonna be blunt - you are absolutely clueless if you're comparing Awakening to Diablo. They're entirely different games. 

You DO realize most of the games you mentioned happen to be on the easy side...??? And that in the Tellius saga, magic got nerfed? Also, most laguz tend to have poor resistance, other than the herons, which cannot fight, and thus you shouldn't allow to get attacked anyway, so claiming that laguz are good answers to mages is incorrect, especially since they are vulnerable to certain magic types.

Entirely different...yes, FE is turn/turn based, while Diablo is real time. Both send you waves of ennemies, except, SURPRISE! in Diablo they know how to preserve themselves while in Awakening they come kamikaze to explode at you (lunatic counter shenanigans for you), in order to maximize their damage and take down your units no matter the human cost. Both send ennemies from all directions, both have mechanics of reinforcements at certain points, except in Diablo you can react because you're not forced to watch until it's your turn, so in fact Diablo is managing reinforcements better than FE13 by design. Both have weapons, skills, supportive abilities, damage, Diablo uses gear to gain stats while FE uses RNG to determine if your unit will be decent, trash or godly, meaning in Diablo you actually have a way to manage your power level while in Awakening like other FE you can only cry if your unit is speed screwed or didn't raise def/res like they should.

You can also rage when you're trying to play with unit average stats and every unit goes out of their way to have completely different stats per level than you should expect, like a speed/res blessed Subaki in my last PT while Hinoka was def blessed, or a 10-11 cavalier Arthur into ninja not raising speed in 5 levels in Fates. If you had the option to click on "use average growth rates" like in...was it in PoR after you complete the game once? at least you would know which unit has which stats at which level and decide who you will use according to that knowledge. That would be actual strategy. Which unit has the things I need now and in the long run? this one. But no, it's RNG that decides if your unit will proc a single point of speed with a 60% GR in 15 levels (already had a 14 spd Chrom lv 20, it hurts a lot when he should have 18.5, so he could double himself from that file if it ended up being rounded at 19).

In fact, Awakening is a fail at being a Fire Emblem (AKA T-RPG), it also fails at being a good hack n'slash turn/turn. It's a hybrid with only the worst of both worlds. It's highly fan-service and otaku-friendly (loli dragon in scale swimsuit, Tharja, very low % of adult playable characters compared with older FE, so you clearly send children and teenagers to war, nice legitimation of child work and child soldiers and highly shônen oriented), while older FE had deeper background, characters that were developped outside supports, better chara design, actual art style (not generic anime faces), a decent story for most of them (Awakening's meanies are caricatures all the way, even the Conqueror has been rushed and lacks depth, while he could've been a different version of Ashnard, he's just so rushed he fails at being a character and contradicts himself, and the scenario is such a random mix that it's laughable: do we have this? check, do we have that? check, oh! and don't forget this too, or we won't get enough sales! otakus gotta have their loli grandma dragon acting like a 5 YO spoiled kid who they can legitimately take in missionary, superman and everything they want cuz it's a 1000+ YO dragon in the body of a little girl, it's not pedophilia, I swear!).

On 9/8/2019 at 3:30 PM, Flere210 said:

We should always be forced to use ALL game mechanics on the hardest difficulty, it's a flaw of the game if we are not. And we should still be greatly encoraged to use them on any other difficulty. A game should be balanced around the player using at least somewhat competently all the tools they have to get stronger, because if it's balanced around not using them, the game became a joke when you are efficient. There are many examples of that.

 If you don't like pair up don't play awakening, but the whole game is built on the expectation that pair up wilm be used, so it's only natural if mages hit you hard whitout a pair up that mitigate that. And it's not like pegasus riders and priests became useless lol.

 

Except the hardest difficulty unlockable is Luna+. I don't play that. I didn't even finish lunatic because it's stupid. Normal is easy mode and hard is normal mode from our standards. Except magic users are OP especially ennemies who outnumber your units, these units who have low res and get nearly 2 or 3-shot by magic through their 50-80 HP if the 65% accuracy the ennemy has on you works correctly.

I don't know why I should use ALL it's mechanics. Dual attack and dual guard are completely random, it's not what I call a mechanic, it's an annoying RNG element in a game that is supposed to be tactical and strategic but uses so much RNG that it makes me sick. Everything and it's mother depends on RNG except base stats. Even Fates that went all the way reducing RNG mechanics (shield gauge, 100% dual attack chance, no dual attack if you are adjacent to your healer even if you have 3 combat units of your army around you) failed at making the game reliable: still % chance to hit, and ennemies rates are higher than yours for each %, many 31% hit while you miss 1/2 75% hit rates, many 1-5% crits from ennemies get through while you can fail 4 crits at 40% chance in a row, while they could just say duellist's blow auto dodges the first ennemy riposte, but if they hit 2x the second will hit, only skills allowing to dodge/crit if conditions are met, so you can rely on everything and you don't have shitty RNG involved in hitting or not, in crits, etc., everything being preventable by planning in advance, and no hidden bonuses for ennemies, like hidden bonus crit from generic units attack stance or such bullshit you don't even see unless you let all animations on which doesn't happen if you want to end a chapter in less than 30 minutes.

On 9/8/2019 at 5:27 AM, Jotari said:

Well you're entitled to your opinion. But Awakening sold a billion copies so you're in the minority.

Does it mean it's good? Could you play it legally before buying it? I'm the only FE player in my group of friends, I couldn't test the game BEFORE I bought it. And the defaults often appear when you start loosing the hype of the first moments. Hell, if you look at how many albums of shitty French rap are sold by shitty French rappers who only talk about drugs, boobs, disrespecting the authorities and the women gender, homophobia, and other trash content, you'd understand that sales don't tell you the quality of the product and even if people give positive feedback, don't forget that their pride could also make them tell good about something bad just not to be taken for fools, I've seen it myself, it's not a myth, or they just gave their thoughts when it's hot, then when they get the time to analyse they think differently, like me.

 I found FE13 very enjoyable at first, now I can't get past chapter 21 because it's so boring and empty, even FE8 replay feels better, be it 5 or 15 chapters, it's still funnier while being 9 years older on a less capable console, but animations look better, characters are more interesting, I don't feel like hearing my sister's highschooler complexes reflected everywhere, and I don't have to choose between 50% spd growth and 65%, I can choose a slow unit on purpose, or a unit that comes with weird bases but good GR leading to them being better than your early coming growth units like Dozla vs Ross/Garcia. Dozla starts really slow, but having RNG proof bases unlike Garcia who can not grow any spd in 35 levels with 20% growth, ending up even slower than Dozla, while needing exp to have the same HP and not being close to Dozla's base def/res until level 18 + warrior promotion, leading him to not getting any speed on promotion, Garcia is easily screwable because he has HP and strength growths, everything else being trash or mediocre, Ross has many levels to be nothing more than his competition who start better. Dozla has superior movement than your classic foot unit, being good for Eir!12 where he can benefit from a 30% avoid for 80% of the chapter by stepping on the mountains, his base res allows him to have 13 res with a pure water, denying Mogalls any chance to deal significant damage, he still has mobility advantage against Duessel in most of late game while Duessel faces so many forest/mountain/lake tiles in 3 or 4 chapters AFTER chapter 15, not counting unimpressive desert mobility for both and Dozla's movement superiority in 3 chapters on Eph's route where Duessel is supposed to be a god alongside Seth who has more move but the same terrain drawbacks, eading them to fail at being what they're supposed to be, stat checks don't overcome no water/moutain walk, terrain penalties, 15 con being a dowside for Duessel since any mounted guy with more than 10 con can't carry him: none can carry him once promoted, lowest male mounted con is 11; and females can't either :falcons have 6 con, 14 aid, too bad he has 15 con, only Dozla, Gilliam and Garcia can rescue Duessel in the whole game, meaning you HAVE to use them if you want Duessel to go faster than a snail's pace, and Dozla is usable at base for the whole game even though he doesn't start great, it's good enough he doesn't suffer too much problems and he has bulk to solve his problems.

And mountains to solve his avoid, and you can give him the hopron guard if you fear ennemies with 10+ skill or 5+crit on items, while Cormag comes with far worse bases, doesn't get any bonus from terrain, fears bows and ballistas which come in his join chapter and there are bows for the whole game, and he also fears magic which dents his HP far more than Dozla's 43 base even through a pure water, BTW Dozla ends up with better HP/str/skl/spd than Duessel while 17 def 10 res is enough alongside 59 HP to do everything you want, sure it's lv 20 stats, but Dozla levels up faster than Duessel, taking 5 levels while Duessel takes 1, until they are more or less the same level, at which Dozla is faster than Duessel, has 15 bonus crit over him offensively and still has better terrain mobility and mountain/water walk over him in chapters where it matters, like 45% of the 2nd half of the game ^^ where Duessel will struggle to even reach the ennemies just like Gilliam: Chapter 11 water, chapter 12 water/mountains (+ Duessel not recruited yet in Eir route), chapter 13 water/mountain (still no Duessel), chapter 14 equal movement (no Eir!Duessel), chapter 15 should be equal, chapter 16 equal, chapter 17 is full of forests, mountains and water, chapter 18 I don't know if Dozla can cross terrain better than Duessel, chapter 19 no, chapter 20 is full of forest, mountains and lake, endgame has no terrain specificity for non flyers.

---

Sorry for the long paragraph, I don't see where I could cut it without it disturbing the pacing of the argument. It shows just how much more satisfying it is to know about FE8 than about FE13, where all you can do is slash waves and waves of kamikaze idiots suiciding on you, and the most efficient way of beating the game (that also takes the lowest turn count) is Chrom+MU roller coaster destroying the game with illimited exp pumped into 1 unit, and taking their children along the way because MU has such high stats at that point that even the mediocre starting Lucina has enough base stats to be playable right off the bat, especially high HP/STR/SPD and enough def for her HP to tank until she has to use an elixir.

The point in this thread is to say FE13 doesn't fit Fire Emblem's genre at all. It's everything but what we expect from FE.

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1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

Attack stance I may have used badly, I mean when you attack while having one or several allies on adjacent tiles. Still a lot weaker than 1-3 support bonus range. And in RD you just had to talk to each other once, and maybe use rescue/shove and stay for 5 turns a chapter close to one another in order to gain 1 support level, either way it wasn't harder than in Awakening and Fates while the range of support was clearly far more beneficial (and double earth gave 30 avoid, something you don't see commonly in Awakening and Fates, I didn't look at marriage support bonuses but it seems highly doubtful, and it doesn't change the fact Radiant Dawn had tripple digits avoid numbers without any support, my Mia reached 115 or 120 avoid without any stat booster already, not needing to learn a skill to have acceptable avoid at base, and the way weight worked in Tellius allowed most units to overcome heavy weapons' drawbacks, allowing everyone to use the strongest weapons by end game, not only manly men with +7-9 base speed and +4 con favoritism like Gerik/Moulder/Duessel's +2 leading him to 15).

Bold: Which is horrifically inefficient. Not to mention the support bonuses were very seldom good enough to justify the wait (the issue with double earth is that four of the units who have earth affinity are in the exp-starved Dawn Brigade, and another five (Lucia, Tanith, Ena, Renning, Caineghis) have limited availability. Which leaves Ike, a main character, and Oscar, who's not as good as he was in Path of Radiance.

Second bold: Which is thanks to the stat inflation that game has - prior to that game, caps were 20 until Genealogy come along (discounting Gaiden because it was the second game in the series, and back then the second game in the series tended to be radically different relative to the first, to say nothing of the fact that hitting the cap [40] would be nigh impossible), went back to 20 for Thracia, then went back to variable caps afterwards (with the highest cap in any stat being 30).

1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

I don't know why I should use ALL it's mechanics. Dual attack and dual guard are completely random, it's not what I call a mechanic, it's an annoying RNG element in a game that is supposed to be tactical and strategic but uses so much RNG that it makes me sick. Everything and it's mother depends on RNG except base stats. Even Fates that went all the way reducing RNG mechanics (shield gauge, 100% dual attack chance, no dual attack if you are adjacent to your healer even if you have 3 combat units of your army around you) failed at making the game reliable: still % chance to hit, and ennemies rates are higher than yours for each %, many 31% hit while you miss 1/2 75% hit rates, many 1-5% crits from ennemies get through while you can fail 4 crits at 40% chance in a row, while they could just say duellist's blow auto dodges the first ennemy riposte, but if they hit 2x the second will hit, only skills allowing to dodge/crit if conditions are met, so you can rely on everything and you don't have shitty RNG involved in hitting or not, in crits, etc., everything being preventable by planning in advance, and no hidden bonuses for ennemies, like hidden bonus crit from generic units attack stance or such bullshit you don't even see unless you let all animations on which doesn't happen if you want to end a chapter in less than 30 minutes.

Then way are you here to begin with? Everything in FE is RNG.

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2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

You know what? Levin sword is not a physical sword, Amatsu is a unique sword with very limited uses that happens to drop from a boss who wil use it so you don't even get the full durability, and Ragnell isn't a common sword, let alone the fact it is far from being a C rank sword. Hell even in the Spotpass content you don't get any 1-2 physical sword. You can only get Ragnell in Priam's paralogue, which means after you got enhanced Falchion. You won't use it a lot for main game, that's for sure (especially if Priam's paralogue is harder than all of the main game, seeing how in normal mode the conqueror's paralogue was harder than 90% of hard mode main game). So Ragnell is out of it, Levin sword isn't physical, Amatsu has no more than 30 uses (if you even get a chance at looting it unused, meaning either you one shot the boss which means heavy grinding or lucky RNG crit/skill activation, or you grinded like hell so you could already complete the game with 1 unit at that point).

Attack stance I may have used badly, I mean when you attack while having one or several allies on adjacent tiles. Still a lot weaker than 1-3 support bonus range. And in RD you just had to talk to each other once, and maybe use rescue/shove and stay for 5 turns a chapter close to one another in order to gain 1 support level, either way it wasn't harder than in Awakening and Fates while the range of support was clearly far more beneficial (and double earth gave 30 avoid, something you don't see commonly in Awakening and Fates, I didn't look at marriage support bonuses but it seems highly doubtful, and it doesn't change the fact Radiant Dawn had tripple digits avoid numbers without any support, my Mia reached 115 or 120 avoid without any stat booster already, not needing to learn a skill to have acceptable avoid at base, and the way weight worked in Tellius allowed most units to overcome heavy weapons' drawbacks, allowing everyone to use the strongest weapons by end game, not only manly men with +7-9 base speed and +4 con favoritism like Gerik/Moulder/Duessel's +2 leading him to 15).

Entirely different...yes, FE is turn/turn based, while Diablo is real time. Both send you waves of ennemies, except, SURPRISE! in Diablo they know how to preserve themselves while in Awakening they come kamikaze to explode at you (lunatic counter shenanigans for you), in order to maximize their damage and take down your units no matter the human cost. Both send ennemies from all directions, both have mechanics of reinforcements at certain points, except in Diablo you can react because you're not forced to watch until it's your turn, so in fact Diablo is managing reinforcements better than FE13 by design. Both have weapons, skills, supportive abilities, damage, Diablo uses gear to gain stats while FE uses RNG to determine if your unit will be decent, trash or godly, meaning in Diablo you actually have a way to manage your power level while in Awakening like other FE you can only cry if your unit is speed screwed or didn't raise def/res like they should.

You can also rage when you're trying to play with unit average stats and every unit goes out of their way to have completely different stats per level than you should expect, like a speed/res blessed Subaki in my last PT while Hinoka was def blessed, or a 10-11 cavalier Arthur into ninja not raising speed in 5 levels in Fates. If you had the option to click on "use average growth rates" like in...was it in PoR after you complete the game once? at least you would know which unit has which stats at which level and decide who you will use according to that knowledge. That would be actual strategy. Which unit has the things I need now and in the long run? this one. But no, it's RNG that decides if your unit will proc a single point of speed with a 60% GR in 15 levels (already had a 14 spd Chrom lv 20, it hurts a lot when he should have 18.5, so he could double himself from that file if it ended up being rounded at 19).

In fact, Awakening is a fail at being a Fire Emblem (AKA T-RPG), it also fails at being a good hack n'slash turn/turn. It's a hybrid with only the worst of both worlds. It's highly fan-service and otaku-friendly (loli dragon in scale swimsuit, Tharja, very low % of adult playable characters compared with older FE, so you clearly send children and teenagers to war, nice legitimation of child work and child soldiers and highly shônen oriented), while older FE had deeper background, characters that were developped outside supports, better chara design, actual art style (not generic anime faces), a decent story for most of them (Awakening's meanies are caricatures all the way, even the Conqueror has been rushed and lacks depth, while he could've been a different version of Ashnard, he's just so rushed he fails at being a character and contradicts himself, and the scenario is such a random mix that it's laughable: do we have this? check, do we have that? check, oh! and don't forget this too, or we won't get enough sales! otakus gotta have their loli grandma dragon acting like a 5 YO spoiled kid who they can legitimately take in missionary, superman and everything they want cuz it's a 1000+ YO dragon in the body of a little girl, it's not pedophilia, I swear!).

Except the hardest difficulty unlockable is Luna+. I don't play that. I didn't even finish lunatic because it's stupid. Normal is easy mode and hard is normal mode from our standards. Except magic users are OP especially ennemies who outnumber your units, these units who have low res and get nearly 2 or 3-shot by magic through their 50-80 HP if the 65% accuracy the ennemy has on you works correctly.

I don't know why I should use ALL it's mechanics. Dual attack and dual guard are completely random, it's not what I call a mechanic, it's an annoying RNG element in a game that is supposed to be tactical and strategic but uses so much RNG that it makes me sick. Everything and it's mother depends on RNG except base stats. Even Fates that went all the way reducing RNG mechanics (shield gauge, 100% dual attack chance, no dual attack if you are adjacent to your healer even if you have 3 combat units of your army around you) failed at making the game reliable: still % chance to hit, and ennemies rates are higher than yours for each %, many 31% hit while you miss 1/2 75% hit rates, many 1-5% crits from ennemies get through while you can fail 4 crits at 40% chance in a row, while they could just say duellist's blow auto dodges the first ennemy riposte, but if they hit 2x the second will hit, only skills allowing to dodge/crit if conditions are met, so you can rely on everything and you don't have shitty RNG involved in hitting or not, in crits, etc., everything being preventable by planning in advance, and no hidden bonuses for ennemies, like hidden bonus crit from generic units attack stance or such bullshit you don't even see unless you let all animations on which doesn't happen if you want to end a chapter in less than 30 minutes.

Does it mean it's good? Could you play it legally before buying it? I'm the only FE player in my group of friends, I couldn't test the game BEFORE I bought it. And the defaults often appear when you start loosing the hype of the first moments. Hell, if you look at how many albums of shitty French rap are sold by shitty French rappers who only talk about drugs, boobs, disrespecting the authorities and the women gender, homophobia, and other trash content, you'd understand that sales don't tell you the quality of the product and even if people give positive feedback, don't forget that their pride could also make them tell good about something bad just not to be taken for fools, I've seen it myself, it's not a myth, or they just gave their thoughts when it's hot, then when they get the time to analyse they think differently, like me.

 I found FE13 very enjoyable at first, now I can't get past chapter 21 because it's so boring and empty, even FE8 replay feels better, be it 5 or 15 chapters, it's still funnier while being 9 years older on a less capable console, but animations look better, characters are more interesting, I don't feel like hearing my sister's highschooler complexes reflected everywhere, and I don't have to choose between 50% spd growth and 65%, I can choose a slow unit on purpose, or a unit that comes with weird bases but good GR leading to them being better than your early coming growth units like Dozla vs Ross/Garcia. Dozla starts really slow, but having RNG proof bases unlike Garcia who can not grow any spd in 35 levels with 20% growth, ending up even slower than Dozla, while needing exp to have the same HP and not being close to Dozla's base def/res until level 18 + warrior promotion, leading him to not getting any speed on promotion, Garcia is easily screwable because he has HP and strength growths, everything else being trash or mediocre, Ross has many levels to be nothing more than his competition who start better. Dozla has superior movement than your classic foot unit, being good for Eir!12 where he can benefit from a 30% avoid for 80% of the chapter by stepping on the mountains, his base res allows him to have 13 res with a pure water, denying Mogalls any chance to deal significant damage, he still has mobility advantage against Duessel in most of late game while Duessel faces so many forest/mountain/lake tiles in 3 or 4 chapters AFTER chapter 15, not counting unimpressive desert mobility for both and Dozla's movement superiority in 3 chapters on Eph's route where Duessel is supposed to be a god alongside Seth who has more move but the same terrain drawbacks, eading them to fail at being what they're supposed to be, stat checks don't overcome no water/moutain walk, terrain penalties, 15 con being a dowside for Duessel since any mounted guy with more than 10 con can't carry him: none can carry him once promoted, lowest male mounted con is 11; and females can't either :falcons have 6 con, 14 aid, too bad he has 15 con, only Dozla, Gilliam and Garcia can rescue Duessel in the whole game, meaning you HAVE to use them if you want Duessel to go faster than a snail's pace, and Dozla is usable at base for the whole game even though he doesn't start great, it's good enough he doesn't suffer too much problems and he has bulk to solve his problems.

And mountains to solve his avoid, and you can give him the hopron guard if you fear ennemies with 10+ skill or 5+crit on items, while Cormag comes with far worse bases, doesn't get any bonus from terrain, fears bows and ballistas which come in his join chapter and there are bows for the whole game, and he also fears magic which dents his HP far more than Dozla's 43 base even through a pure water, BTW Dozla ends up with better HP/str/skl/spd than Duessel while 17 def 10 res is enough alongside 59 HP to do everything you want, sure it's lv 20 stats, but Dozla levels up faster than Duessel, taking 5 levels while Duessel takes 1, until they are more or less the same level, at which Dozla is faster than Duessel, has 15 bonus crit over him offensively and still has better terrain mobility and mountain/water walk over him in chapters where it matters, like 45% of the 2nd half of the game ^^ where Duessel will struggle to even reach the ennemies just like Gilliam: Chapter 11 water, chapter 12 water/mountains (+ Duessel not recruited yet in Eir route), chapter 13 water/mountain (still no Duessel), chapter 14 equal movement (no Eir!Duessel), chapter 15 should be equal, chapter 16 equal, chapter 17 is full of forests, mountains and water, chapter 18 I don't know if Dozla can cross terrain better than Duessel, chapter 19 no, chapter 20 is full of forest, mountains and lake, endgame has no terrain specificity for non flyers.

---

Sorry for the long paragraph, I don't see where I could cut it without it disturbing the pacing of the argument. It shows just how much more satisfying it is to know about FE8 than about FE13, where all you can do is slash waves and waves of kamikaze idiots suiciding on you, and the most efficient way of beating the game (that also takes the lowest turn count) is Chrom+MU roller coaster destroying the game with illimited exp pumped into 1 unit, and taking their children along the way because MU has such high stats at that point that even the mediocre starting Lucina has enough base stats to be playable right off the bat, especially high HP/STR/SPD and enough def for her HP to tank until she has to use an elixir.

The point in this thread is to say FE13 doesn't fit Fire Emblem's genre at all. It's everything but what we expect from FE.

Don't worry, I didn't bother to read it. Because you don't have an argument. Merely an opinion. And I respect that. Though as has been pointed out, you're about half a decade late for anyone to really care.

Edited by Jotari

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On 9/10/2019 at 2:11 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Which is horrifically inefficient. Not to mention the support bonuses were very seldom good enough to justify the wait (the issue with double earth is that four of the units who have earth affinity are in the exp-starved Dawn Brigade, and another five (Lucia, Tanith, Ena, Renning, Caineghis) have limited availability. Which leaves Ike, a main character, and Oscar, who's not as good as he was in Path of Radiance.

It's still better to have 1-3 range aura for supports than to only benefit from adjacent units' bonuses, and I didn't even use supports in previous FE except for Colm who's very reliant on his Neimi support which makes him far better than he is by himself. I just wanted to see the character development, not the stat bonuses (after I saw what it gave, I didn't care for anything not giving 10% crit or more) because you have enough stats not to need supports to play the game casually. Supports are here to help, to make up for downsides, but they're just a helping hand, not a forced stat to take into count. That's why each affinity gives different bonuses, to try several combinations, but also to be flexible, and it just shows that any unit isn't forced to use certain combinations, otherwise they would only have that 1 combinaion available (let's say fire wind for example, I don't know what it gives, it's just an example). And you could benefit from several stat bonuses while covering 7 tiles (1 0 0 1 0 0 1) and the unit at the center would get the support bonuses from each of the suportive units at each extremity of the line/V/whatever formation you used. Now...only adjacent units, so only 3 tiles covered. Not very EFFICIENT for you efficiency shenanigans.

Second bold: Which is thanks to the stat inflation that game has - prior to that game, caps were 20 until Genealogy come along (discounting Gaiden because it was the second game in the series, and back then the second game in the series tended to be radically different relative to the first, to say nothing of the fact that hitting the cap [40] would be nigh impossible), went back to 20 for Thracia, then went back to variable caps afterwards (with the highest cap in any stat being 30).

Gaiden didn't have any unit aoid system, only terrain bonuses  giving avoid, or maybe even no avoid at all (don't remember if it was added in SOV or it it was in Gaiden, I think it was already in Gaiden though). Only spd thresholds for doubling/not getting double, taking 1 damage per hit, and dealing damage and HP had to be managed. And FE1-3-4-5 aren't a good example to compare with since their mechanics were quite different or straight up lacking compared with GBA and later games. They were simple games and FE 4-5 were overly complicated games a bit like Fates in terms of mechanics, skills, etc. (by the way FE Builder made me discover some of those skills, maybe they were modified, coming from Heroes or whatever, but still, quite an overly complicated system, like mount/dismount mechanic sounds weird for an outsider like me even though well done it could be an amazing way to balance mounted units, be they paladins or wyverns or pegasi etc.).

FE RD was the pinnacle of GBA-GBC-WII generation gameplay, and even though it had many flaws, it was really enjoying in a gameplay perspective. It only lacked correct difficulty scaling, unit balance and availability coherence/balance. The story was great too, I didn't finish PoR so I can't compare it to RD, but I enjoyed RD from th beginning to the end, and finally the only downside is the DB being so unappealing, undevelopped and lacking part 3 playability to catch up in exp, but they also look up to the GM from the beginning, so it stays relevant story-wise. It's their 1st war except Sothe, and the GM have already fought a war, Ike has already been a leader, while Micaiah is still learning the hard way and she had less time to grow than Ike, while having less experimented councellors than Ike who had Titania and whose friend Soren was a very good tactician, while Micky has...Sothe...her best general is Tauroneo, who was more an executive than a boss, correct me if I'm wrong. DB suffered the syndrome of the little brother, GM patted their head and told them to let the grown ups take care of the situation.

Then way are you here to begin with? Everything in FE is RNG.

It has always had RNG factors, but Awakening multiplied the number of RNG factors until the whole game was completely RNG reliant, with more stat inflation than RD and big nerfs to speed and luck, instead of balancing the game they just made everything OP/broken like League of Legends did for the 3 last years, and nothing is solved by making everything OP. That's why Awakening is not a tactical game. The whole gameplay is based on RNG, even skills (relevant skills I mean, not RD skills that were completely overkill) and dual attack/guard. It's not FE Awakening, it's RNG Awakening or FE RNG. And if you were stat screwed through 50+ GR, you could immediately bench your unit because ennemy stat inflation was really impressive, as in RD normal/hard levels of impressive, except you couldn't cheese the chapter since you had to rout most of the time. Typically the problem of Tiki's paralogue, it's the exact example of the worst things Awakening brought: high number of flying ennemies, EP moving reinforcements for 10+ turns before you can finally heal your wounds while cleaning up and go kill the boss. That's the best way to describe Awakening's gameplay.

So when I talk about Diablo-like, it's this kind of things I highlight. And it's exactly chapters 19 and 20 Valm arc level design, fight a gigantic army with your 10 units and you'd better be prepared since they have attack and magical attack mixed in, some being too tanky for your average not overfarmed unit to kill in 1 turn so they get surrounded, completely ganged at and they die, and you don't have a good map design to make up for that, 1 tile chokepoints, doors to let ennemies pass only when you're ready...no, just a room with 2 tiles openings and mixed attacks incoming from the hordes of ennemies packed in that small throne room, as well as ennemies in every corridor to the chest rooms, and 2 chests at each extremity needing 2 thieves or to kill ennemy thieves in time.

 

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On 9/15/2019 at 5:29 PM, mangasdeouf said:

It's still better to have 1-3 range aura for supports than to only benefit from adjacent units' bonuses, and I didn't even use supports in previous FE except for Colm who's very reliant on his Neimi support which makes him far better than he is by himself. I just wanted to see the character development, not the stat bonuses (after I saw what it gave, I didn't care for anything not giving 10% crit or more) because you have enough stats not to need supports to play the game casually. Supports are here to help, to make up for downsides, but they're just a helping hand, not a forced stat to take into count. That's why each affinity gives different bonuses, to try several combinations, but also to be flexible, and it just shows that any unit isn't forced to use certain combinations, otherwise they would only have that 1 combinaion available (let's say fire wind for example, I don't know what it gives, it's just an example). And you could benefit from several stat bonuses while covering 7 tiles (1 0 0 1 0 0 1) and the unit at the center would get the support bonuses from each of the suportive units at each extremity of the line/V/whatever formation you used. Now...only adjacent units, so only 3 tiles covered. Not very EFFICIENT for you efficiency shenanigans.

You still need to have supporting units next to each other to build supports, at least in the GBA games. And supports were much, much slower to build in those games, especially the GBA games since you pretty much had to intentionally stall just to build them. Also, affinities don't really help because some just give better bonuses than others - who cares about Heaven affinity giving a massive hit boost when hitting enemies is very seldom a problem? 

On 9/15/2019 at 5:29 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Gaiden didn't have any unit aoid system, only terrain bonuses  giving avoid, or maybe even no avoid at all (don't remember if it was added in SOV or it it was in Gaiden, I think it was already in Gaiden though). Only spd thresholds for doubling/not getting double, taking 1 damage per hit, and dealing damage and HP had to be managed. And FE1-3-4-5 aren't a good example to compare with since their mechanics were quite different or straight up lacking compared with GBA and later games. They were simple games and FE 4-5 were overly complicated games a bit like Fates in terms of mechanics, skills, etc. (by the way FE Builder made me discover some of those skills, maybe they were modified, coming from Heroes or whatever, but still, quite an overly complicated system, like mount/dismount mechanic sounds weird for an outsider like me even though well done it could be an amazing way to balance mounted units, be they paladins or wyverns or pegasi etc.).

I'd think it did. Anyway, while the older games are, well, old, some of their mechanics still are a thing these days.

On 9/15/2019 at 5:29 PM, mangasdeouf said:

 FE RD was the pinnacle of GBA-GBC-WII generation gameplay, and even though it had many flaws, it was really enjoying in a gameplay perspective. It only lacked correct difficulty scaling, unit balance and availability coherence/balance. The story was great too, I didn't finish PoR so I can't compare it to RD, but I enjoyed RD from th beginning to the end, and finally the only downside is the DB being so unappealing, undevelopped and lacking part 3 playability to catch up in exp, but they also look up to the GM from the beginning, so it stays relevant story-wise. It's their 1st war except Sothe, and the GM have already fought a war, Ike has already been a leader, while Micaiah is still learning the hard way and she had less time to grow than Ike, while having less experimented councellors than Ike who had Titania and whose friend Soren was a very good tactician, while Micky has...Sothe...her best general is Tauroneo, who was more an executive than a boss, correct me if I'm wrong. DB suffered the syndrome of the little brother, GM patted their head and told them to let the grown ups take care of the situation.

Some of that is not an argument, only your opinion. Anyway, my big issue with RD from a gameplay perspective is that the new characters didn't have enough play time to make up for their starting at a lower level than other units. Well, that, and most non-royal laguz being woefully underpowered despite all the downsides they suffer from, and all the effort it takes to raise them - why in the seven hells should I bother with them when pretty much 10 times out of 10, beorc are better??? 

 

On 9/15/2019 at 5:29 PM, mangasdeouf said:

It has always had RNG factors, but Awakening multiplied the number of RNG factors until the whole game was completely RNG reliant, with more stat inflation than RD and big nerfs to speed and luck, instead of balancing the game they just made everything OP/broken like League of Legends did for the 3 last years, and nothing is solved by making everything OP. That's why Awakening is not a tactical game. The whole gameplay is based on RNG, even skills (relevant skills I mean, not RD skills that were completely overkill) and dual attack/guard. It's not FE Awakening, it's RNG Awakening or FE RNG. And if you were stat screwed through 50+ GR, you could immediately bench your unit because ennemy stat inflation was really impressive, as in RD normal/hard levels of impressive, except you couldn't cheese the chapter since you had to rout most of the time. Typically the problem of Tiki's paralogue, it's the exact example of the worst things Awakening brought: high number of flying ennemies, EP moving reinforcements for 10+ turns before you can finally heal your wounds while cleaning up and go kill the boss. That's the best way to describe Awakening's gameplay.

 So when I talk about Diablo-like, it's this kind of things I highlight. And it's exactly chapters 19 and 20 Valm arc level design, fight a gigantic army with your 10 units and you'd better be prepared since they have attack and magical attack mixed in, some being too tanky for your average not overfarmed unit to kill in 1 turn so they get surrounded, completely ganged at and they die, and you don't have a good map design to make up for that, 1 tile chokepoints, doors to let ennemies pass only when you're ready...no, just a room with 2 tiles openings and mixed attacks incoming from the hordes of ennemies packed in that small throne room, as well as ennemies in every corridor to the chest rooms, and 2 chests at each extremity needing 2 thieves or to kill ennemy thieves in time.

So you think stuff like Luna and Sol dealing triple damage while they either negate defense or heal you, respectively, is balanced? And I don't see the "big nerfs to speed and luck" or the "everything is OP" comments as anything other than bullshit. Besides, this is no argument - just your opinion.

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20 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

You still need to have supporting units next to each other to build supports, at least in the GBA games. And supports were much, much slower to build in those games, especially the GBA games since you pretty much had to intentionally stall just to build them. Also, affinities don't really help because some just give better bonuses than others - who cares about Heaven affinity giving a massive hit boost when hitting enemies is very seldom a problem? 

So, you're saying you don't need your units to interact with each other, adjacent or paired up, to gain support ranks in Fates? Good luck building any support in no grind without your units ever being in contact with each other. You'll rarely see a "!" on the support menu. You still have to make your units interact for them to get support bonuses. Otherwise they will gain random supports from random converstaions in My Castle, and they need more than 1 to gain 1 support level. Inviting an ally into your house takes 3x the same to get 1 suport rank, and only Corrin can do that, while allies you can invite are random.

And I specifically described RD support system which let you gain supports crazy fast by interacting very little with each other and talking once per support level to each other to gain 1 rank, with only 3 support ranks per unit, 1 support available at a time, and supporting whoever you want before the Tower. Meaning it's the most efficient support system until SOV gameplay-wise, and SOV has a weird way to manage supports (including per act support level considerably limiting the potential of one support for most of the game). And it has 3 tiles radius like GBA support bonuses. Only it takes 1 or 2 turns per support level to invest in it. Instead of 5+ turns being stuck together or even paired up, loosing exp for the backpack to increase support level.

I'd think it did. Anyway, while the older games are, well, old, some of their mechanics still are a thing these days.

Some of that is not an argument, only your opinion. Anyway, my big issue with RD from a gameplay perspective is that the new characters didn't have enough play time to make up for their starting at a lower level than other units. Well, that, and most non-royal laguz being woefully underpowered despite all the downsides they suffer from, and all the effort it takes to raise them - why in the seven hells should I bother with them when pretty much 10 times out of 10, beorc are better??? 

Well, did you ever see the ground level accuracy boost or debuff in any game after RD? Did you see any mechanic introduced in PoR not refined in RD? Gameplay enhancement: shove, smite, move again after attacking with canto, Savior skill allowing to save without penalty (and not boosting your stats like it is in 3DS, which is stupid, how could you be more powerful while carrying someone? you loose speed and accuracy, that's logic); Skill system refined, better skill management, swap skills, final classes naturally gain their class skill, not asking you to buy it or anything else, each laguz race has its' class skill and each skill has some kind of difference, no destruction of skills when they're being removed from a unit...

Ballistae and Catapults brought diversity to the long range weapons and benefitted from the ground level treatment so you couldn't just dodgetank them when they were on a higher ground level. Rock traps in 3-8 or something like that, another gameplay mechanic I haven't seen before or later RD. Every gameplay mechanic introduced in PoR and refined in RD or just introduced in RD has been erased for later FE. FE11 and 12 were remakes that didn't add much to original gameplay of their original games, meaning very poor game mechanics you could copy in a book where you're the hero. FE13 went back to FE6 for its' gameplay bases, FE14 from FE13 so still retaining major problems of this game, adding new mechanics to make people feel nostalgic of RD (map gimmicks in CQ are clearly there to appeal to long term fans, but they failed with me, I found them stupid and not enjoyable at all, especially things like chapter-long stat boosters or hex from pots in C12...what a stupid idea...) while still ignoring most mechanics that were good in RD and forgotten after RD.

I'm not talking of my preference, just that they went back 13 years in time to take the base of their new games instead of using what's been made more recently and brought a satisfying and more complete gameplay experience. Fates re-introduced shove (very poorly), and rescue (same), class exclusive skills (oni is rarely even played so shove could as well not exist, especially when it's a tank who shoves instead of a squishy who pushes the tankto the frontlines, while cavaliers didn't need to have rescue as one of the skills you can get only from their clas, they were always a dominant class, why should they be the only ones getting rescue naturally? even more with rescue adding stats instead of reducing them?)

So you think stuff like Luna and Sol dealing triple damage while they either negate defense or heal you, respectively, is balanced? And I don't see the "big nerfs to speed and luck" or the "everything is OP" comments as anything other than bullshit. Besides, this is no argument - just your opinion.

21 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

relevant skills I mean, not RD skills that were completely overkill

From my parenthesis, literally answers your question. RD skills were overkill, I explicitely wrote it.

Cutting speed avoid by 25% and luck avoid in 2 seems like a little nerf to you? They completely gutted the stat that was already seen as irrelevant while making speed a real pain in the a**. You start with 7 speed on Chrom, and he won't double attack before he reaches 5 speed more than his ennemies...who also have 4-7 speed (barbarians/myrmidons) and also gain speed by levelling up, meaning Chrom needs 2 speed procs to reach doubling threshold on lv 1 barbarians at base (while being nearly killed by 2 axe hits), and 5 to kill lv 1 myrmidons...meanwhile the myrmidons he faces now have 13 speed because he won't reach 12 speed long before chapter 4/5 and in chapter 5 they have 12 or 13 speed. And they hit for 20 damage. Just a reminder of why "EVERYTHING IS OP" in Awakening. Without pair up you can barely take 2 ennemy hits without dying for most of the game in no grind no exp-funnelling into 1 or 2 units. The units you get in chapter 5 are close to being doubled by most ennemies in the chapter they come in. They won't have the speed to double anyone anytime soon.

Awakening uses base stats similar to GBA bases while having higher caps than RD and the highest GR of any FE game (total growths) except Manaketes who had 19 level ups in GBA and no second seal with limited weapon uses for the remaining chapters, and only 1 range. Your unit has bad bases/comes too late with these bases? It's not worth it to train it in efficient playthrough (although if you gave the same ressources to Donnel that you give to others, his stats would be like 10 points higher than your other best unit at the same internal level, except res that would still be closer to Robin's than to Chrom's. His HP growth is higher than 100% in most if not all classes he has access to, he has 80-ish luck growth, and few stats under 65%. He can also abuse Armsthrift to use insane forges unlimited times or spotpass legendary weapons as well as magic weapons, in the end his cost is much lower than what he refunds you with his armsthrift abuse and his good classes, especially hero, and he's a good dad who can pass down aptitude, foot axe classes' skills and pegasus to his daughter as well as the highest base stats if you trained him, since he grows so much better than even Nowi and Tiki, who don't even have a point in reclassing except to grab skills since Manakete beats every other class in the game at less than 5 levels difference just with Dragonstone bonus stats and powerful 1-2 range, middling speed alongside good bulk, actually best bulk in the game).

 

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On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

So, you're saying you don't need your units to interact with each other, adjacent or paired up, to gain support ranks in Fates? Good luck building any support in no grind without your units ever being in contact with each other. You'll rarely see a "!" on the support menu. You still have to make your units interact for them to get support bonuses. Otherwise they will gain random supports from random converstaions in My Castle, and they need more than 1 to gain 1 support level. Inviting an ally into your house takes 3x the same to get 1 suport rank, and only Corrin can do that, while allies you can invite are random.

Could you not put words in my mouth, please? I never said that Fates didn't require units being adjacent to one another for supports to build - only that nearly all those other games you mentioned did.

 

On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

And I specifically described RD support system which let you gain supports crazy fast by interacting very little with each other and talking once per support level to each other to gain 1 rank, with only 3 support ranks per unit, 1 support available at a time, and supporting whoever you want before the Tower. Meaning it's the most efficient support system until SOV gameplay-wise, and SOV has a weird way to manage supports (including per act support level considerably limiting the potential of one support for most of the game). And it has 3 tiles radius like GBA support bonuses. Only it takes 1 or 2 turns per support level to invest in it. Instead of 5+ turns being stuck together or even paired up, loosing exp for the backpack to increase support level.

I don't see how it's so efficient when you can only support one other unit and have to break up an existing support to start another one. It still suffers from the issues that made GBA supports troublesome to get, just not as much.

On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Well, did you ever see the ground level accuracy boost or debuff in any game after RD? Did you see any mechanic introduced in PoR not refined in RD? Gameplay enhancement: shove, smite, move again after attacking with canto, Savior skill allowing to save without penalty (and not boosting your stats like it is in 3DS, which is stupid, how could you be more powerful while carrying someone? you loose speed and accuracy, that's logic); Skill system refined, better skill management, swap skills, final classes naturally gain their class skill, not asking you to buy it or anything else, each laguz race has its' class skill and each skill has some kind of difference, no destruction of skills when they're being removed from a unit...

Biorhythm wasn't refined in RD - instead it became a Scrappy Mechanic. Unless you think dealing with your best units arbitrarily being crippled is fun or interesting, which I don't. Also, shove, smite and canto returned in post-RD games (though personally, I'm not so happy to see Canto back, since it tends to make mounts in general overpowered). Laguz were also not fine-tuned - they were mostly made useless, owing to having even more problems than in Path of Radiance.

On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Ballistae and Catapults brought diversity to the long range weapons and benefitted from the ground level treatment so you couldn't just dodgetank them when they were on a higher ground level. Rock traps in 3-8 or something like that, another gameplay mechanic I haven't seen before or later RD. Every gameplay mechanic introduced in PoR and refined in RD or just introduced in RD has been erased for later FE. FE11 and 12 were remakes that didn't add much to original gameplay of their original games, meaning very poor game mechanics you could copy in a book where you're the hero. FE13 went back to FE6 for its' gameplay bases, FE14 from FE13 so still retaining major problems of this game, adding new mechanics to make people feel nostalgic of RD (map gimmicks in CQ are clearly there to appeal to long term fans, but they failed with me, I found them stupid and not enjoyable at all, especially things like chapter-long stat boosters or hex from pots in C12...what a stupid idea...) while still ignoring most mechanics that were good in RD and forgotten after RD.

Unfortunately for you, most ballistae and catapults in the Tellius saga are aimed in your direction (and the latter tend to be rather useless anyhow unless they get a direct hit on a squishy unit). And even if you kill the operators before they run out of ammo, their being pointed in the  direction you came from means you probably won't get much, if any, use out of them. Also, I fail to see how Awakening "went back to FE6 for its gameplay bases" since the latter game had no skills, and was a mono-seize game. Fates does draw on Awakening for some of its mechanics, but it fine-tuned them. Also, most of the gimmicks Conquest had weren't that bad, especially compared to FE6, which has disappearing bridges over water, fog of war combined with desert, and light arrows that you cannot predict which are also capable of killing your units. And what mechanics that were good in RD and forgotten after were you talking about? The only mechanics intrinsic to RD I can think of are stuff I'm glad is gone (the aforementioned laguz and biorhythm).

On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

I'm not talking of my preference, just that they went back 13 years in time to take the base of their new games instead of using what's been made more recently and brought a satisfying and more complete gameplay experience. Fates re-introduced shove (very poorly), and rescue (same), class exclusive skills (oni is rarely even played so shove could as well not exist, especially when it's a tank who shoves instead of a squishy who pushes the tankto the frontlines, while cavaliers didn't need to have rescue as one of the skills you can get only from their clas, they were always a dominant class, why should they be the only ones getting rescue naturally? even more with rescue adding stats instead of reducing them?)

Must you repeat a statement you cannot prove? It makes you look even worse than you already are looking.

On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Cutting speed avoid by 25% and luck avoid in 2 seems like a little nerf to you? They completely gutted the stat that was already seen as irrelevant while making speed a real pain in the a**. You start with 7 speed on Chrom, and he won't double attack before he reaches 5 speed more than his ennemies...who also have 4-7 speed (barbarians/myrmidons) and also gain speed by levelling up, meaning Chrom needs 2 speed procs to reach doubling threshold on lv 1 barbarians at base (while being nearly killed by 2 axe hits), and 5 to kill lv 1 myrmidons...meanwhile the myrmidons he faces now have 13 speed because he won't reach 12 speed long before chapter 4/5 and in chapter 5 they have 12 or 13 speed. And they hit for 20 damage. Just a reminder of why "EVERYTHING IS OP" in Awakening. Without pair up you can barely take 2 ennemy hits without dying for most of the game in no grind no exp-funnelling into 1 or 2 units. The units you get in chapter 5 are close to being doubled by most ennemies in the chapter they come in. They won't have the speed to double anyone anytime soon.

Using ALL CAPS doesn't make something true. Also, relative to Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, speed's effect on evade was buffed.

 

On 9/17/2019 at 4:11 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Awakening uses base stats similar to GBA bases while having higher caps than RD and the highest GR of any FE game (total growths) except Manaketes who had 19 level ups in GBA and no second seal with limited weapon uses for the remaining chapters, and only 1 range. Your unit has bad bases/comes too late with these bases? It's not worth it to train it in efficient playthrough (although if you gave the same ressources to Donnel that you give to others, his stats would be like 10 points higher than your other best unit at the same internal level, except res that would still be closer to Robin's than to Chrom's. His HP growth is higher than 100% in most if not all classes he has access to, he has 80-ish luck growth, and few stats under 65%. He can also abuse Armsthrift to use insane forges unlimited times or spotpass legendary weapons as well as magic weapons, in the end his cost is much lower than what he refunds you with his armsthrift abuse and his good classes, especially hero, and he's a good dad who can pass down aptitude, foot axe classes' skills and pegasus to his daughter as well as the highest base stats if you trained him, since he grows so much better than even Nowi and Tiki, who don't even have a point in reclassing except to grab skills since Manakete beats every other class in the game at less than 5 levels difference just with Dragonstone bonus stats and powerful 1-2 range, middling speed alongside good bulk, actually best bulk in the game).

The only thing you got right was that Awakening has better growths and caps than in Radiant Dawn. I don't see giving favoritism to Donnel as good for anything other than making the game harder because his bases are godawful and his join time is pretty bad (unless you like the idea of having a liability on your team in a chapter where you can only use six units, which I do not, not to mention wyvern riders start showing up right after that chapter). Hell, I'd say he's more trouble to raise than he's worth on anything over normal mode. His potential as a father is also rather limited, thanks to him having a lot of negative modifiers, and the male-exclusive class skills are mostly nothing special. Giving three daughters (those being Kjelle, Noire, and Nah) pegasus access doesn't make up for this.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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On 9/18/2019 at 2:02 AM, Shadow Mir said:

and his join time is pretty bad

You can recruit Donnel in the first third of the game, so how does that constitute a "bad join time"?

Quote

You know what? Levin sword is not a physical sword, Amatsu is a unique sword with very limited uses that happens to drop from a boss who wil use it so you don't even get the full durability, and Ragnell isn't a common sword, let alone the fact it is far from being a C rank sword.

I was just stating the fact that there are ranged swords in the game, contrary to what you stated. Whether or not you can use them or no is besides the point.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

You can recruit Donnel in the first third of the game, so how does that constitute a "bad join time"?

Because the first chapter after his joining limits you to only six unit slots. Needless to say, I'm not insane enough to think deploying him in that chapter is a good idea. And things only get worse from there.

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