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How Can Fire Emblem Do Better Next Time?

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We all love Fire Emblem (I don't even know how you can disagree if you're on this site. Just. No). That's why we play it. But, as with any game, there is always room for improvement. 

With the advent of Three Houses, it got me thinking about what the next FE could improve on, whether it be a Geanology remake (that's a popular idea with the fandom), etc. Three Houses is an excellent game, to be sure - aesthetically-wise, it is probably #1 in my book- the graphics, interface, everything. The story is also good, and the cast of characters are well written. However, there are of course some notable downsides with Three Houses, or at least controversy. Among those are a limited cast (it's tiny, nearly as small as Sacred Stones's), which leave out some things to be desired, such as late game pre-promotes and the lack of characters outside of the school, difficulty (among the easiest I've ever played, even on Maddening), and more. 

So, what are your guys' opinions on ways the next FE can improve on Three Houses? Should they add back the weapon triangle? Do they keep going with Fodlan? Should they keep a school system? The options are endless (those are just some random things -_-). I'm just curious to hear the opinions on the Fandom. So, have at it, I guess. 

 

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I'll probably make a topic about it later, but in many games several classes are just plain awesome, whilst other classes are outright dead ends.

Three Houses rank system is very unbalanaced with many ranks being just bad; most noticeably armored rank.

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Scrap the school sections as I feel it dilutes the core gameplay, get rid of the garbage magic system the game has and add the Weapon Triangle back in.

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Add rescuing and shoving back widespread like in tellius. I really miss being able to pull off fun strats with those mechanics. Oh, and bonus experience, and more siege defense maps, and a tellius style base....

Honestly I just want more radiant dawn.

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  • Let the school setting be Three House's unique hook and never take us to such a setting again. The concept of setting goals and training your units however can absolutely have worked in any previous Fire Emblem setting and I think is a great fit for the series. Our units train seemingly every day as far as support conversations have mentioned but those characters seldom mention what they're training in specifically or who gave them the order to do so.
  • Battalions deserve to be expanded on. And battalion v battalion fights should play out how monster battles work in Three Houses where you create openings with special gambits or repeated attacks. The greatest strength of the battallion system is the added context of army battles. Instead of your twelve guys taking on thirty, it looks like a larger scale conflict and your units are serving as squad leaders
  • The class system I'm not sure on. I think Three Houses is yet another game that proves totally free reclassing is problematic, however the components of making the system work are there. Separating class skills from equippable skills is genius. Promotion seals are limited, which is good, but you can get as many as you want in NG+ or with online functions turned on. Mastering classes is a wonderful idea to cut down on frivolous reclassing, but the amount of exp needed was far too slow, and almost none of the classes past the intermediate tier had worthwhile mastery skill rewards anyway. Ultimately I'd prefer each character only have a couple classes available like in Awakening/Fates to avoid situations like everybody pushing for Death/Fiendish/Darting Blow.
    • Promotions being available by meeting certain proficiency requirements is also great for a free reclassing system, but was too rigid. Having to be proficient in lances just to earn a horse feels silly when sword and axe wielding cavs have always been a thing.
  • Limiting the amount of equippable combat arts is totally unnecessary, especially when mages do not have this limitation with their spells.
  • The movement skills should not be combat arts at all, but instead something you unlock by raising your Dexterity stat. For example, getting shove at 5 Dex, Swap at 10, Draw Back at 15, and Reposition at 20. Because some are clearly better than others and we need the Dex stat to be more relevant. I might also suggest mounted units not be able to use any of these skills in exchange for Canto.
Edited by Glennstavos

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Whatever kind of game we get next, I just hope there isn't as much unnecessary padding between main story maps as there was in Three Houses.  The Monastery along with various other unique aspects of Three Houses is an interesting experience the first time around, but the novelty wears off VERY quickly and it just becomes a chore.  Seriously, why can't we just go back to having the Base like in Tellius?

Furthermore I'd prefer more traditional class and weapon systems that also move towards better balance.  Some things that I think should be done include:

  • Retaining Wt and weapon durability.
  • Pure (Spd - Wt) for AS calculation so that nobody gets punished for having low Str or Bld/Con.
  • A Javelin/Hand Axe equivalent for Swords (I don't care if it's Wind Edges or Kodachi or even Boomerangs).
  • Extended attack range for Bows, so long as they can NEVER COUNTERATTACK AT 1-RANGE; personally I think 2-3-Range is the sweet spot, with Longbows maybe having 2-4-Range.
  • Buffing the Armored movement type in some manner that doesn't make it a net liability.  Just giving them higher Def than every other movement type isn't enough if they're going to have so many other weaknesses.  They should either have the highest BST like in Heroes or an additional Class Skill to match Canto, like maybe Jugdral Pavise or a lesser form that only halves damage rather than negating it entirely.
    • I know Vestaria Saga gives Armored units Class Skills that buff nearby allies' Def stats.  Maybe something like that which boosts Def AND Res?

That's all I can think of for now.

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A list of my wants

1)Keep demonic beasts.

2a)More complex strategy eg adding back the weapon triangle and maybe magic triangle.

2b) Keep or develop the adjutant system(my idea is they could have a general system where different units provide passive buffs to the army, only a select few could be commanders and their buffs are active if deployed but to a lessr effect excluding lords and such. Think of the co system from advance wars but without the active buffs.)

3) more varied settings fire emblem takes place in a fantasy setting but that doesnt mean it has to all be european settings. Add african or idian themed settings with unique units to that area. heck they could still have a european setting but witha more suggestive tone to where it is eg spain.

thats it i cant think of anything else

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Ooh, something else I thought of.

I'd like to see a game where we actually get to play as the dark cult for once.  Then again, this idea probably came from my ongoing playthrough of Command & Conquer.

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Really, I want half the shit introduced in Three Houses rolled the fuck back. Namely:

1: The frontloaded recruitment system that's hostile to ironmanning by making replenishing lost forces impossible

2: The trial-and-error map design that prioritizes cheap surprises over genuine strategic difficulty in the interests of keeping the rewind system relevant (it doesn't do this all the time, but the times it does i are the only times it tries to be hard)

3: The removal of the weapon triangle

4: The dilution of core gameplay behind school sim mechanics that make the game take way longer than it needs to

5: The atrocious support system that makes support bonuses meaningless and gives you so many conversations that it makes reading support conversations a chore rather than a treat.

6: Replacing a wide variety of classes over two tiers with a mile deep but an inch wide set of classes with promotions repeated over multiple levels. Seriously, ask me to choose between having 24 final classes and having 8, and I'll pick the former every time. I don't get the appeal behind sacrificing design budget making multiple iterations of the same class. It's not like a tier 2 can't look just as flashy as their tier 4 or anything. It's the same end result, just with less variety and more filler in between.

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28 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Really, I want half the shit introduced in Three Houses rolled the fuck back. Namely:

1: The frontloaded recruitment system that's hostile to ironmanning by making replenishing lost forces impossible

Weird that you say this. Since I'd say this "problem" begins with Awakening and Fates. Fates BR barring some My Castle units and the children, gives you everyone by Chapter 14. CQ does it by Chapter 16, and Rev by 17.

Awakening is a little better, since Tik'ri, Flabas, and the Spotpass 6 exist. However, you still get everyone else barring the children by chapter 14. And of the non-kids, Flabas and the Spotpass 6 come very late.

Now, I've explicitly excluded the children, because they are available for late recruitment. Albeit, the Awakening children are sorta like 12 Ests, which I personally don't really want. 

The Fates children are better and worse at the same time. Worse in that by recruiting them early, you leave the recruitment frontloaded. Better, in that if you do recruit them late, unless you breed something like Beruka!Forrest, you get good prepromotes, and I really like this. Only Shiro and Ignatius are particularly hellish to get late, even if you've material/financial incentive to do Ophelia and Percy early.

Strip the children from the picture though (even if they do exist), and the problem in Awakening and Fates appears.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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Just now, Interdimensional Observer said:

Weird that you say this. Since I'd say this "problem" begins with Awakening and Fates. Fates BR barring some My Castle units and the children, gives you everyone by Chapter 14. CQ does it by Chapter 16, and Rev by 17.

Awakening is a little better, since Tik'ri, Flabas, and the Spotpass 6 exist. However, you still get everyone else barring the children by chapter 14. And of the non-kids, Flabas and the Spotpass 6 come very late.

Now, I've explicitly excluded the children, because they are available for late recruitment. Albeit, the Awakening children are sorta like 12 Ests, which I personalyl don't really want. 

The Fates children are better and worse at the same time. Worse in that by recruiting them early, you leave the recruitment frontloaded. Better, in that if you do recruit them late, unless you breed something like Beruka!Forrest, you get good prepromotes, and I really like this. Only Shiro and Ignatius are particularly hellish to get late, even if you've material/financial incentive to do Ophelia and Percy early.

Strip the children from the picture though (even if they do exist), and the problem in Awakening and Fates appears.

I find the Fates child system to be an entirely acceptable substitute for late-game recruitment that even has its own interesting nuances to it. I don't see why they should be excluded. They exist, and they're very much a part of gameplay.

As for Awakening... yeah, Awakening is also one of the most ironman-hostile games in the entire series. Not quite as bad as one or two other games because at least Awakening's broken mechanics mean it's basically impossible to lose enough units that you can't win just with Robin and Chrom (not that that's much of a positive in most other contexts, or even really in this one). And as you said, it's just 12 Ests. 12 Ests you can really easily get off the ground, granted, but 12 Ests all the same.

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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Buffing the Armored movement type in some manner that doesn't make it a net liability.  Just giving them higher Def than every other movement type isn't enough if they're going to have so many other weaknesses.  They should either have the highest BST like in Heroes or an additional Class Skill to match Canto, like maybe Jugdral Pavise or a lesser form that only halves damage rather than negating it entirely.

  • I know Vestaria Saga gives Armored units Class Skills that buff nearby allies' Def stats.  Maybe something like that which boosts Def AND Res?

That's all I can think of for now.

In Vestaria Saga, it was +3 defense AND resistance for adjacent units, after promotion, it becomes +5 defense and resistance for adjacent units. The defense maps encourage the use of your Armored Knights and turtling.

 

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1) while i do understand why the game want to give you all the characters early so you get to know them, it makes late game so less interesting. And whitout eugenetic simulator uou don't even get the children. This can be easily solved by having the characters do their own thing for most of the story and then join you later. 

2)The class system need to be revamped. Either whit more balance or by embracing the game breaking and make every class able to shatter the game if used properly. Considering Awakening reception, i would say that the fanbase would prefer the former.

3) they need to design better map and to design more maps period.

4)if they want to reuse a route system, they should either go the Fates route and make separate games or do something less ambitious. Do we need four routes if 2 are them are a copy paste of each other? Personally i think 2 routes could be done whit around the number of maps of RD. 

5) please for the love of god stop pretending that the lord characters are perfect angels that can do no wrong. It get ridicoulus when the lords are a tyrant and an insane berserker. If all the factions end whit a golden age whit no drawbacks there is no point of picking a side, they are just different flavours of Utopia.

6) while i like "war camp mechanics" they should be faster and the exploration should be strictly a flavour and character building option that does not cost resources, because it gets really boring have to explore the monastery at least twice a week.

7)2-3 range OR close counter fix the bow. Both make them the best weapon type

8 )give us some alternative way to learn magic because some characters are just unable to function whit thei spell list.

9)huge stats inflation is the worst possible way to make an hard difficulty mode.

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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Really, I want half the shit introduced in Three Houses rolled the fuck back. Namely:

3: The removal of the weapon triangle

The Weapon Triangle isn't in Three Houses, though.

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1. Leave the idea of Monastery exploration and students as Three Houses' unique quirk like Echoes' exploration.

2. Fix the battalions or trash them because holy shit their animations are horrible and out of place.

3. Make the animations back to Echoes or GBA tier please. Three Houses had way too much jank and attacks that obviously looked like they missed connect anyway.

4. Trash avatar or make an avatar that doesn't have the whole world at their feet please I swear to GOD. Byleth hit me hard with the avatar fatigue and a major reason why I love what Echoes did and got rid of an avatar for a change.

Edited by Seazas

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1) well i actually do kinda like the monastery it would probably work better if it was just a 3d interactive version of the base from radiant dawn or even the my castle from fates if were keeping to a chapter by chapter basis. ie, instead of it being a thing you have to chose to do and waste time on as an obligation make it so that its the home so to speak you return to after each chapter/map and manage units from and the like.

2) interesting attempt at reinventing the class system but it just doesnt really work, especially since master and advanced tiers are deceptive when most of the master classes are alternatives to the advanced classes as opposed to actual upgrades and are treated as such by the games design. stick to the tried and true 1 2 maybe 3 with clear paths of progression or put a little more care and effort into reinventing the class system next time as opposed to trying to mix the two together to an extent.

3)  id prefer for tomes to come back personally, but if spell lists are gonna be a thing for the series now on i'd prefer some method to customize the spell lists as opposed to characters only learning certain spells.

4) just leave the class non gender locked, its always been a bit silly gameplay wise but especially with reclassing having such prevalent focus nowadays just leave them unlocked so that players dont have arbitrary restrictions. especially in cases such as lysithia whos built around dark magic but has no acess to dark magic classes until master classes at lvl 30 up.

5) well id rather not have cast inflation, i rather prefer having slightly larger teams deployed on maps then the 10-11 most three houses maps offer even if they are designed around those numbers. 13-16 is the sweet spot for me.

6) dont dump route splits entirely for the franchise, but for the next original iteration it would be nice to go down a more traditional format that has the singular story. especially if it was given a lot of fancy bells and whistles due to not needing to split development resources among routes.

7) the 3d games have long held this problem but more flair for the individual class battle animations? the gba games did this so well in part because they were 2d but you could get rather close in 3d if you put in the effort. id just rather things not feel so floaty in terms of animations anymore and admittedly three houses gets fairly close to that goal. simply put viewing battle animations should be a treat not just a chore.

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There's actually one common thing from the plot that I liked in TMS#FE and Persona 3-4. I liked how the former three games gave due focus on the other characters and didn't have the protagonist necessarily hog the proverbial (and literal in the case of TMSFE) spotlight all the time. I mean:

  • while Itsuki lead the party in and around the Idolaspheres, the majority of the performances are done by others.
  • Yu may had found out the real culprit in the serial murders, but he at least needed Yosuke and Naoto doing the majority of the talking and thinking to get to that point, if not others as well.
  • Likewise, Minako may had led everyone up Tartarus, but Mitsuru and Akihiko found SEES in the first place, and took care of the teammates outside of Tartarus, and Minako also needed Mitsuru's mission control to get some basic idea of what she needed to do. 

This may not be all that easy for new FE entries, but for remakes, I want the story further expanded upon, with a number of extra cut-scenes (and maybe even character-specific arcs) for a few non-Lord characters that you managed to keep alive. And the protagonist actually interacts with them as like generals and lieutenants/squad leaders. For some ideas in FE6:

Recurring episodes:

  • Marcus manages the discipline of the troops for Roy and discusses training, and he can also provide insight on the politics of Lycia and Bern from past experience. He can also talk about how some people betray the alliance. Out of cowardice? (Eric could be this.) Out of personal greed? (Wagner in Chapter 6.) Or out of a not-so-unfounded fear of retribution and punitive sanctions from the invaders? (It would be interesting to write a script, if Leygance was this, and he became desparate after the disaster at Araphen.)
  • Lilina and Roy could discuss how different actual practice is compared to theory learnt from Cecilia, and how it can be daunting. They can also talk about leadership and how they can exercise it.
  • If Roy romances Thany or Sue, the former can listen to the stories of Ilia/Sacae from the latter, and also have them as the leading scouts into the nation. Alternately, Lilina can do that instead - out from her desire to learn more about the different nations - if Roy romances Lilina. If a save state from FE7 Echoes is detected, then extra conversations may happen depending on who is Roy's/Lilina's parents. Lyn!Roy or Lyn!Lilina will have an extended conversation with Sue, and Fiora!Roy and Florina!Lilina will ditto with Thany.
  • If Douglas survives in Chapter 16, then Lalum thanks Roy for sparing her father. She also lets on further stories about how she got to the Western Isles, and how she and Douglas shifted things behind the scenes against Aracard and Roartz.

Other characters can have their own episodes here and there:

  • Cecilia, Perceval after Chapter 14, and Saul corresponds to the rebels and to Jodel and discusses how further political and tactical pressure can be applied against Aracard and Roartz.
  • Actually, Saul and/or Dorothy can even comment on why they are in the Western Isles with Roy at Ebracum in Chapter 11 - Jodel asked them to investigate the extent of Oro's corruption, and the whereabouts of the church's previously-sent auditors. And they can take statements from exploited citizens to be sent back to the Etrurian Vatican and appoint a replacement bishop to restore order and work out restitution.
  • Dieck and Klein may have an extended conversation together if they already have support, and discusses the possibility of visiting the Rigel manor and the colosseum after Chapter 16 (or 16 Paralogue).
  • Rutger reminisces his younger days in Chapter 20 of the Sacae route, and resolves to take down Bern to settle his accounts against them.
  • Milady, Zeiss, Elen, and Guinevere convince Bernians to stand down and surrender, in Chapter 21?

In any case, I'd like to see a more significant/visible role of teamwork affecting the plot, with Echoes!Sigurd, Echoes!Roy and Echoes!Eirika/Ephraim, and Echoes!Ike/Micaiah actively having to rely on others, and backing off every now and then to give focus for the others' characters' arcs - all like what Itsuki, Yu, and Minako did - instead of what tends to happen a bit too often: a near-invincible Lord near-single-handedly saving the continent.

Edited by henrymidfields

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To put it simply, reverse all the changes 3H made. Remove the hub world, class system, school gimmick, magic/staff system, grinding-heavy gameplay, etc.

Instead, I'd like to see the weapon triangle make a return, as well as third tier classes from Radiant Dawn. But no reclassing, or avatar, and definitely no divine pulse. 

Also, I'd like more varied map objectives. In particular, the return of Thracia or Conquest style "Escape all" with a minimum deployment. 

Also no "choose your own path" nonsense. If you must have a route split, do it GBA or Thracia style. And have switching between parties and perspectives done Radiant Dawn style.

A return of character recruitment. The wackier, the better (think Hannibal, PoR Shinon or Lehran) And hidden events and secrets, such as the Brave Axe Lex event, and such. 

No weird dating sim stuff like that tea party or the face petting. Character pairings are fine, but tone it down. Tone down the character gimmicks too, and remove supports and replace them with Talk and Base Conversations. Gives the characters more chance to react to the story and have memorable events in it too. 

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Shrink the camp/monastery to make it less cumbersome

Edelgard's 1 chapter warcamp is perfectly sized.

 

Expand on the endgame classes

Class variety was the single largest flaw with 3H.

 

Add in recruitable enemies

 

Reign in storytelling scope

If you want to tell us a morally grey war story with a route split, focus on that. Tertiary factions like the obviously evil sorcerors, or Anankos in Fates only really dilute the story.

 

Custom difficulty settings

How about letting us choose whether to toggle mechanics such as Ambush Spawns, reduced xp gains, etc. Give us more freedom and let us set custom challenges. 

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Fire Emblem can improve on Three Houses.

What it did right? The game was fun, lots of ways to build your units, the characters were interesting and had personalities. The monastery was a good place to spend hours in, maybe a bit too repetitive in the long run. Skills were probably one of the best things to work with, I hope they'll keep them. Loved the music as well, except for one that obviously doesn't belong into this game. They also found a way to fix archers, which is a great thing from 3H in my opinion.

On the other side, I wish our choices matter somewhat more...

We had to pick between the 3 lords, but the routes were too much identical, unless you know how to avoid church route - which you might missed, unless you were not bored by the monastery already. Your combat decisions also didn't matter on Normal/Hard, as you had too many divine pulses to fix any mistakes that you made, which turns Classic into Casual 2.0. Classes should also matter more, and it shouldn't be enough to have just 3 out of the master classes for all your students. It also didn't help the class system that you had to go to Chapter 5 in spiral with mostly 4 move trainee units.

Then we have the magic system. It was an interesting touch that you can reuse your magic on each chapter instead of burning through a tome with limited usage. However I didn't like how some spells were locked to some units. They were also very limited, as it came to offensive, healing, warping and silencing spells. (also Ward, but when did you need that one?) Where's Torch, Unlock, Sleep or Rewarp? Also the system kind of killed the chance to get Hammerne. Dark Magic was fun, but only on 3 units, 2 locked on a single route. Dark Seal was a hard to get item, but wasn't even a rewarding one.

Finally I think the story can be improved on. At some point it felt really rushed, other times it made little sense, often missed the buildup to things.

Spoiler

Not enough people were questioning how quickly became a professor. The Flame Emperor was a good idea, but it all came down to a last minute start of conflict between the church and the Empire. I know Dimitri is going through things, but it seems like he just changes when the story demands it. Claude might be the master of scheming, but he wasn't very surprising to be honest.

 

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I don't want another school phase, but I love the instruction-based reclassing system and the freedom it offers without the brokenness of the DS system. Instruction could return as something for benched units to do, perhaps providing an incentive to rotate characters a bit (you want the reclass, you gotta do your homework). There could also be a few points where everyone has a chance to study every few chapters, such as the downtime between major story arcs, so that your entire squad isn't totally left out.

I'd also like to see both magic systems used side-by-side, where casting with a tome/staff you inherently know gives you a stronger version in lieu of tome forging.

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22 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Buffing the Armored movement type in some manner that doesn't make it a net liability.  Just giving them higher Def than every other movement type isn't enough if they're going to have so many other weaknesses.  They should either have the highest BST like in Heroes or an additional Class Skill to match Canto, like maybe Jugdral Pavise or a lesser form that only halves damage rather than negating it entirely.

Thinking, what if armored units were the only unit able to increase their movement by simply leveling? Like say the player's armor unit, after reaching level 10, their movement increases by one point, making their movement the same number as the other infantry? Berwick Saga had something like that for Marcel, who was basically an armored unit.

In Vestaria Saga, the General class, who are a separate class line from Armored Knights(a promoted class here), also has infantry level movement. Though in Vestaria Saga Gaiden, where a General is playable, there is a playable armored knight with the movement +1 skill.

In a system like Three Houses, high enough armored rank would allow regular infantry movement.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

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I liked the ability to set weapon proficiency but the rest of the monastery stuff was just filler. Replace it with a Tellius style base menu instead and whilst I'm on the topic of Tellius bring back bonus exp, ledges, the dawn brigade and siege defence maps. You can easily set the goals through a base menu with characters getting WEXP at the end of the chapter.

Reduce the load times, I swear I've not seen loading times like that since the Sega Saturn. Cut back on the graphics if you need to but that load time needs to come down. I found myself using divine pulse or turning the game off instead of retreating as I didn't want to sit through the loading screens.

Ditch the Avatar, we've had 3 Western games with it now and it's clear as day that you can't have a character that everyone can project themselves onto and and be a well-established character in the lore. Tell the story through the eyes of the lords and have an off-screen advisors like FE7 Mark if you really want to make the player feel integrated into the game. By having no Avatar the main Lord(s) can keep screen time and drive the plot. It would also remove an OP character from gameplay.

The deployment slots were poor compared to the units you could have effectively forcing the player to have less than a dozen favourites and a cast of bench warmers.

The routes are too similar from what I've seen so far although it's far better than Fates' shenanigans! Cut back on the number of playable routes and make it possible to save when they occur.

 

Edit: If I may dream for a moment I'd like to see the characters stop fighting themselves and instead become commanders and leave the actual fighting to more powerful, modern and expendable units which can be replenished for money based on how many resources you have/can capture. You could even take it into three dimensions with air units and naval units. Each character could do better with some of these units and worse with others.

 

Edited by Sonicfan

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