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Fe Lunatic Questions

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Hey guys, so I've recently been sucked back into FE conquest by watching Deltre's playthrough. It was the second FE game I played (started with Awakening very original I know) and having played every game since then I really want to beat lunatic. So far I am at chapter 15 but want some input before I proceeded further though. First, when should I recruit Ophelia. I plan for her to be the Takumi killer and am going full in on stack (Life and Death, Trample by marry Percy, maelific aura, Vantage from Odin, Elbow room from +mag -luck avatar as mom) They have S ranked atm. I don't know whether or not I want to wait until after chapter 18 or before. I need her to get all these skills in a timely fashion and especially with marrying Percy, but on the other hand waiting until later gives me Offspring seal bases and Insta sorcerer access to kickstart her stat growths, and I can save paralogues for her and percy to grind supports. 

 

Another thing I want to know is whether or not I should early promote percy. I have him at level 13 (Effie mom) and saw a post that showed how units early promoted gain exp a lot faster (I think it was Zoran). He is currently the same or worse than my Beruka in stats but I really want to use him as a long term wyvern lord or possibly even a zerker. Is early promoting percy the way to go on this?

Thanks in advance for any and all inputs

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I would wait for Ophelia. Most combat child units like to get the lvl 20 insta promotion without having the chance to getting RNG screwed and by Chapter 19 she can go 20/2 so you dont need a Master Seal.

If you plan to use Percy as a long term wyvern, then wait for him to get to lvl 20 (or around that). Early promotions are mostly for units that dont really contribute much and thats a way to make them usefull for some time, but they tend to fall off. Percy is one of the best, if not the best child unit because his class and with Effie as mother he has some good growths, so give him some levels, i think he is worth the kills.

Edited by Nio

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You won't physically have enough levels to get all those skills if you wait too long. I would think you'll want her pretty close to ch18, she needs to grow multiple levels in other classes to get all those skills. 3 in master of arms (you'll have vantage already) and 4 in malig knight. She'll be nearly useless as an MoA while she's there too, so you really want her there before the late game chapters start to ramp up. I assume she's ending in maligknight? 

Normal promo if using him, early if just temporary. Maybe even into malig if you aren't using him, as that offers much more relevant pair up boosts to Ophelia.

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I'd say waiting for Offspring Seals is NOT worth it. Especially since your planned skill build involves at least two level 15 skills.

Also, what precisely were your plans for Percy?

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11 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd say waiting for Offspring Seals is NOT worth it. Especially since your planned skill build involves at least two level 15 skills.

Also, what precisely were your plans for Percy?

Percy would be a long term wyvern, while I'd dip into zerker for axefaire and malig for trample. He might even stay as a berserker idk yet. He has to marry Ophelia since that is the only way she learns trample without inheritance, and all the skills mentioned plus a bunch of other stack are necessary as she will just barely reach the threshold I need to ORKO Takumi with lightning.

19 hours ago, Boomhauer007 said:

You won't physically have enough levels to get all those skills if you wait too long. I would think you'll want her pretty close to ch18, she needs to grow multiple levels in other classes to get all those skills. 3 in master of arms (you'll have vantage already) and 4 in malig knight. She'll be nearly useless as an MoA while she's there too, so you really want her there before the late game chapters start to ramp up. I assume she's ending in maligknight? 

Normal promo if using him, early if just temporary. Maybe even into malig if you aren't using him, as that offers much more relevant pair up boosts to Ophelia.

Ophelia has to end as a sorcerer with capped magic and speed, her statue max, and if im going to 1 turn rescue skip endgame, she needs to have S rank tomes. Honestly I'm starting to think that this may be too much work and Percy can probably get the kill as a berserker with max strength, a brave axe, and the stack I mentioned above. But Ophelia would still end as a sorcerer anyway, just maybe not with all the stack. (Still would help with chapter 25 via calamity gate abuse)

 

If I decide to ride or die on Ophelia I will probably recruit her before 18, just so I can get 3 of the malig skills done early and spend most of the time with sorcerer growths. If I dont, then I can get ophelia at chapter 19.
 

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Honestly, if you are going to Rescue-skip Endgame, why not calling the campaign “complete” by Chapter 26 or after killing Garon? The skip is barely a strategy anyway. Nor is it designing a monster.
It would give you a bit more flexibility to build your party.

I always recruit children around Chapter 12, and Ophelia is almost always among them. My advice? Recruit her as soon as possible.
Note that despite using only ten units, I have never “naturally” reached weapon rank S in tomes with Sorcerer Odin or Sorceress Ophelia. There are not enough encounters. They always need to eat an Arms Scroll.

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Who is the mother of Ophelia? Normally I would guess Elise, but since she can only get Trample from Percy I think Nyx.

Who did marry Corrin? With early Jakob marry, you can recruit Dwyer. Dwyer can replace Elise as your main healer. Elise can then go Wyvern.

I like to recruit children units ASAP. You're using castles to build up supports, right?

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6 hours ago, SSJDennis said:

Who did marry Corrin? With early Jakob marry, you can recruit Dwyer. Dwyer can replace Elise as your main healer. Elise can then go Wyvern.

This assumes they're playing with a female Corrin (something I'm very iffy on assuming), and second, I think Wyvern Elise is naught but a shitty use of a Heart Seal.

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17 hours ago, SSJDennis said:

Who is the mother of Ophelia? Normally I would guess Elise, but since she can only get Trample from Percy I think Nyx.

Who did marry Corrin? With early Jakob marry, you can recruit Dwyer. Dwyer can replace Elise as your main healer. Elise can then go Wyvern.

I like to recruit children units ASAP. You're using castles to build up supports, right?

This run F!Corrin with a Cav talent is the mother of Ophelia. I was (and still am) going to pass elbow room. I do know about Early Corrin and Jakob and used this pairing to prep for hard mode Classic. But since Jakob wouldn't get any new classes with a Cav talent, he might marry Beruka instead. (Iffy at this point as I'm running out of deployment slots and Jakob  is becoming less and less essential to my main team. With Elise I was going to pair NIles since I'm using both of them all the time and I've never used Shining bow Nina, so I want to try it out. (Nyx was benched after chapter 10, didn't have use for her afterward cuz Odin was doing well as my dark mage nostank)

 

I was trying to use MyCastle as little as possible, but I admit I used the Seed of Trust on Effie and Arthur and purchased a heart seal. So I haven't been grinding supports that way, and I'm trying not too but might for some pairings like Laslow x Charlotte and Niles x Elise

21 hours ago, starburst said:

Honestly, if you are going to Rescue-skip Endgame, why not calling the campaign “complete” by Chapter 26 or after killing Garon? The skip is barely a strategy anyway. Nor is it designing a monster.
It would give you a bit more flexibility to build your party.

I always recruit children around Chapter 12, and Ophelia is almost always among them. My advice? Recruit her as soon as possible.
Note that despite using only ten units, I have never “naturally” reached weapon rank S in tomes with Sorcerer Odin or Sorceress Ophelia. There are not enough encounters. They always need to eat an Arms Scroll.

The big reason for the Ophelia design was I got hyper-focused about not locking myself from being able to beat the endgame. Thinking about it more objectively I realise that this isn't necessary and I can probably reach the benchmark with either Corrin or another brave weapon user. On hard mode I only used the rescue staff on chapter 23 (similarly to how Deltre did that map) and endgame, so maybe I'll save all my rescues and plan another way to beat the endgame. I still want the satisfaction of that final boss kill. 

It looks like recruiting the children as fast as possible seem to be the best answer, so I'm going to get Ophelia now. 

 

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27 minutes ago, beachwalks said:

The big reason for the Ophelia design was I got hyper-focused about not locking myself from being able to beat the endgame. Thinking about it more objectively I realise that this isn't necessary and I can probably reach the benchmark with either Corrin or another brave weapon user. On hard mode I only used the rescue staff on chapter 23 (similarly to how Deltre did that map) and endgame, so maybe I'll save all my rescues and plan another way to beat the endgame. I still want the satisfaction of that final boss kill.

I understand the feeling of being able to kill Taco Meat on Lunatic, and you should definitely do your best to achieve your goal. Do not let my comments, any comments, dissuade you. The thing is that Lunatic Endgame is so restrictive that in many cases it ends up not being fun or strategic. In the same vein, while I have had to send Cornflakes against Lobster on Lunatic Ch 25 because the other nine units were not able to complete the map in a timely manner, I firmly believe that clearing both sides of the map requires far more strategy than just facing the boss.

On Hard, I think that I only use Rescue on Ophelia's map, so that the units that are sent to grab Calamity Gate do not kill more enemies and steal Experience from the Chosen Heroine.

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Hey everyone, I have some more questions about what to do with Lunatic right now. So Im currently on chapter 23, and this chapter is hell. A lot of my units are in the reclass-phase where they aren't in their "optimal" so they can get skills (ex: Xander and Silas are heroes rn for hero skills, Ophelia is 2 lvls from getting life and death as a master of arms). So I don't have enough flyers atm to skip Hinata's group, which I found a strat for but its unfortuantely pretty shaky. Mostly it works, and I can get rallyman but I don't know what to do about Oboro's room. I have no one with pass, and the great wall spaces are so restrictive that I can't kill everyone in Oboro's group while being safe from being lunged into the group of snipers. Initially I tried freezing the 2 closest Spear Masters and trying to kill Oboro's group but Takumi's goddamn ballistia means that I have to dodge all the arrows or no one can be in range, otherwise my weak units will die. What are some ways I can deal with her group? If I need to use the rescue staff I will.

Also, what's some advice people have for chapter 24 afterward, that gave me a rough time on hard mode as well, mostly cause the dragon veins are so spread out and Azama's hexing rod range is really constricting. 

Chapter 25 I was just gonna throw stacked vantage calamity gate ophelia with bowbreaker on the left and master ninja shurikenbreaker solstack soleil (Charlotte mom) on the right.

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1 hour ago, beachwalks said:

So I don't have enough flyers atm to skip Hinata's group, which I found a strat for but its unfortuantely pretty shaky. Mostly it works, and I can get rallyman but I don't know what to do about Oboro's room. I have no one with pass, and the great wall spaces are so restrictive that I can't kill everyone in Oboro's group while being safe from being lunged into the group of snipers. Initially I tried freezing the 2 closest Spear Masters and trying to kill Oboro's group but Takumi's goddamn ballistia means that I have to dodge all the arrows or no one can be in range, otherwise my weak units will die. What are some ways I can deal with her group? If I need to use the rescue staff I will.

I seem to remember two approaches to dealing with that problem talked about in the 10-unit Conquest run thread, and one of them might work for you. The first is to entrapping one of the Basara blocking the further stair, then killing as many enemies on the walls from outside the lunger's range as possible, and then dealing with the group that moves with the lungers after they move out of ballista range to chase you; the other being to kill enough lungers to make it safe enough to survive an enemy-phase, while using the rescue staff to bring back the ones that killed the lungers.

(in case you are curious: https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/86249-anyone-wants-to-play-10-units-only-conquest/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-5405498)

 

1 hour ago, beachwalks said:

Also, what's some advice people have for chapter 24 afterward, that gave me a rough time on hard mode as well, mostly cause the dragon veins are so spread out and Azama's hexing rod range is really constricting. 

I am a fan of the split the army in two to reach all the dragon veins in time, although if you have more fliers on your team by that map, there might be better approaches. As for Azama, the two approaches I have generally seen is try and dodge tank as many of the 6 hexing rod uses as you can ( 3/2 Res + 1/2 Luck is the staff avoid rate), or use the increased flier movement to jump him from outside rod range to kill him before he can use it.

 

1 hour ago, beachwalks said:

 

Chapter 25 I was just gonna throw stacked vantage calamity gate ophelia with bowbreaker on the left and master ninja shurikenbreaker solstack soleil (Charlotte mom) on the right.

The spy-bow lunge chain on the left might still get you (as I seem to remember lunge still working on a miss), but we will see.

 

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16 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The first is to entrapping one of the Basara blocking the further stair, then killing as many enemies on the walls from outside the lunger's range as possible, and then dealing with the group that moves with the lungers after they move out of ballista range to chase you; the other being to kill enough lungers to make it safe enough to survive an enemy-phase, while using the rescue staff to bring back the ones that killed the lungers.

This! Entrapping is probably the right answer, but I usually try to save as many Entrap charges as possible for Chapter 25.
I am pretty sure that one can also Freeze the Lunge Lancers, can we not?
 

16 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The spy-bow lunge chain on the left might still get you (as I seem to remember lunge still working on a miss), but we will see.

Speaking of the devil… Yes, Lunge will pull you regardless of the accuracy of the hit.
If possible, I Entrap both Spy Ninjas on the eastern corridor, and then one Lunge Doll and the Life-or-Death Sword Master on the western section. If there are not enough Entrap charges (say, because you use it on the roof of Chapter 23), at least Entrap one Spy Ninja and the LoD Sword Master and use Freeze to break the chains.

 

16 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I am a fan of the split the army in two to reach all the dragon veins in time, although if you have more fliers on your team by that map, there might be better approaches. As for Azama…

With only ten units, I prefer to keep my units close and ignore the Dragon Veins altogether. Except for two instances (right after facing Weed Girl and right after passing Azama), you are not assaulted from all directions, and can therefore hold positions with relatively few units. And even when you are surrounded by Pegasus, you can position all ten units in five pairs forming a cross, with a high Res unit (preferably Elise, for her aura) at the centre (the Pegasus only hit at 2-range with the Bolt Lance.)

Azama‘s Hex however is one of the worst mechanic offenders in the game. Honestly, I would call it worst than Iago, and just as unfair as the Inevitable End plus Staff Savant Maids in Endgame. He does not even have that much Magic and he will still have a 30 % chance of hexing Elise! The one unit with more Luck than the lotto winner and enough Resistance to tank the entire Harry Potter Academy! I even give her an A-Support Sorcerer pair-up and a Resistance Tonic, but the fucking Azama will always hex her. Unbelievable.

Not to mention that the wanker also has a nasty habit of going full zombie with that miraculous skill. It just costed me a sad restart on an so-far perfect run of this map. I swear, I fucking hate him. I had not restarted since Chapter 13 or so.

Edited by starburst

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On 6/12/2020 at 6:25 PM, Eltosian Kadath said:

I seem to remember two approaches to dealing with that problem talked about in the 10-unit Conquest run thread, and one of them might work for you. The first is to entrapping one of the Basara blocking the further stair, then killing as many enemies on the walls from outside the lunger's range as possible, and then dealing with the group that moves with the lungers after they move out of ballista range to chase you; the other being to kill enough lungers to make it safe enough to survive an enemy-phase, while using the rescue staff to bring back the ones that killed the lungers.

(in case you are curious: https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/86249-anyone-wants-to-play-10-units-only-conquest/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-5405498)

 

I am a fan of the split the army in two to reach all the dragon veins in time, although if you have more fliers on your team by that map, there might be better approaches. As for Azama, the two approaches I have generally seen is try and dodge tank as many of the 6 hexing rod uses as you can ( 3/2 Res + 1/2 Luck is the staff avoid rate), or use the increased flier movement to jump him from outside rod range to kill him before he can use it.

 

The spy-bow lunge chain on the left might still get you (as I seem to remember lunge still working on a miss), but we will see.

 

Hey, thanks for the responses and advice! Well, I did figure out how to beat the level today. I did not have enough money for the entrap staff before the level, so instead I did the secondish approach and found I could kill all the snipers, the two basras, and the lunger not protected by Oboro's group while I froze the other two lunger lancers, then killed Oboro's whole group next turn. The Hinata strategy also got much more reliable (Camillia was one level away from swordbreaker and she's doing insane this run)

As for chapter 24 I remember when I did it on hard, trying to hit the dragon veins ended up working against me since my army got spread pretty thin. I needed paired up units to deal with all the enemies. I'm thinking that I might want to actually push center like @starburst

 

The lunge chain does work if they miss or are alive after combat. Tbh, I wasn't that worried about getting lunge chained: this is because I think that Ophelia can blow these guys out of the water as a vantage sorcerer nuke, or at least that's the hope. She just got LaD today so for Ch. 24 I found that if I can get her to 61 magic (she has inherent +15 stack now plus rallyman), I can plop her with a flyer next to Azama to jump him, (even if miracle procs once I have 2 chances to kill him technically) tank 1 hit and then she could 1 shot the other footies that can reach her if I hit the dragon vein same turn, so I can actually push with my main group. 

 

I do know that lunge works even if you miss, but I actually did want to get lunged (but not hit) because much like 24 I'm at the point where I'll set up Ophelia 1-shotting the left side with calamity gate and vantage (and bowbreaker to lessen the hitrate on the spy yumis). I'll definitely save money in case I need entrap for the left side tho, I only know for sure that I am gonna use shurikenbreaker soleil to do most of the dirty work. If not, I can save entrap for endgame, where I'm gonna try to beat it "straight" by assassinating the maids with rescue shenanigans (still have all 4 charges) and I could even put entrap in there. 

 

21 hours ago, starburst said:

With only ten units, I prefer to keep my units close and ignore the Dragon Veins altogether. Except for two instances (right after facing Weed Girl and right after passing Azama), you are not assaulted from all directions, and can therefore hold positions with relatively few units. And even when you are surrounded by Pegasus, you can position all ten units in five pairs forming a cross, with a high Res unit (preferably Elise, for her aura) at the centre (the Pegasus only hit at 2-range with the Bolt Lance.)

Azama‘s Hex however is one of the worst mechanic offenders in the game. Honestly, I would call it worst than Iago, and just as unfair as the Inevitable End plus Staff Savant Maids in Endgame. He does not even have that much Magic and he will still have a 30 % chance of hexing Elise! The one unit with more Luck than the lotto winner and enough Resistance to tank the entire Harry Potter Academy! I even give her an A-Support Sorcerer pair-up and a Resistance Tonic, but the fucking Azama will always hex her. Unbelievable.

Not to mention that the wanker also has a nasty habit of going full zombie with that miraculous skill. It just costed me a sad restart on an so-far perfect run of this map. I swear, I fucking hate him. I had not restarted since Chapter 13 or so.

Yeah I despise Azama too, and you've fought him way more than I have. So I will relish defeating him for all the pain he caused me in my other files. My approach with staves has been to neutralize them either by getting in their range or sending in an assassin that can survive enemy phase. Or bait out the charges if it's silence cause the AI seems to prefer silencing a unit over freezing them. Maps where I can't do this effectively get either sluggish or messy (chapter 18) for me, especially when it's a goddamn hexing rod with 6 charges I don't wanna try and dodgetank that shit when there's infinite reinforcements and no true hit. The cross formation you described with Elise is really awesome though.

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2 hours ago, beachwalks said:

Maps where I can't do this effectively get either sluggish or messy (chapter 18) for me, especially when it's a goddamn hexing rod with 6 charges I don't wanna try and dodgetank that shit when there's infinite reinforcements and no true hit.

You mention Ch 18, but the sentence actually refers to Lunatic Endgame, right? I am confused.

An way to handle Enfeeble staves is to let the Maids “waste” them on your units as early as Turn 1. The staff range is higher than the attacking range, and Maids will use staves even if no enemy can hit you.
Even with an army of ten, you can afford some units (like the healer and bow wielders) to be Enfeebled and still contribute to the Player Phase successfully. This way, by the time your army actually faces the central room, the Maids will not have Enfeeble charges left (and your whole party will have long recovered from the de-buffing.)

 

3 hours ago, beachwalks said:

The cross formation you described with Elise is really awesome though.

That cross formation trivialises Ch 19. No Xander, no Camilla, no Generals, no Wyvern Lords… One only needs about 20 Defence to “tank” the foxes. That is why “fragile” units like Sniper Mozu with a Mini Bow or Mechanist Anna can hold the foxes. Moreover, a Wolfssegner or a Paladin can do it too, despite their beast weakness.
 

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