What changes would you make to Binding Blade in a potential remake?

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Whisky said:

Fae is a special type of dragon though, a Divine Dragon. The other Divine Weapons don’t appear to be effective against Divine Dragons either since they aren’t effective against Idoun, only the Binding Blade is.

Still any random Wyvern Knight like Miledy that you put up against Zephiel can fight him fine with no effective damage being inflicted on them, while the legendary weapons do inflict effective damage on normal wyvern knights (I think?). Giving Eckesaches dragon effectiveness wouldn't be the stupidest idea ever though. It'd make a grand total of three units in your army have a harder time fighting him.

Also unlike the other weapons it has infinite uses. *shrug*

[Whisky]

59 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Still any random Wyvern Knight like Miledy that you put up against Zephiel can fight him fine with no effective damage being inflicted on them, while the legendary weapons do inflict effective damage on normal wyvern knights (I think?). Giving Eckesaches dragon effectiveness wouldn't be the stupidest idea ever though. It'd make a grand total of three units in your army have a harder time fighting him.

Also unlike the other weapons it has infinite uses. *shrug*

Oh yeah, that's true. The Divine Weapons are effective against Wyvern Knights. I mean, since this is a game and the Eckesachs is enemy only, we can just blame that for all its inconsistencies. (Not excusing it, just explaining how the inconsistencies would have happened) It is a Divine Weapon, so I don't think there's any story or lore reason for why it works differently. Oh well I guess.

If it was effective against Wyverns, I would have lost my Ironman run. I got Miledy and Percival killed (among others) and Zeiss was the one to defeat Zephiel.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Whisky

[joevar]

8 hours ago, German FE Nino said:

 I would just assume it was specifically made to be Hartmuts personal sword and that is why its functions are diffrent and the seal on it was not a physical one like the other weapons, but rather that only his successors can use it which explains why it has diffrent conditions for its use.

how do we know theres no physical seal? afaik, Eckesachs didnt appear at all in Blazing blade. And at the end of it ,all Seals effectively vanish since Bramimond lift it because athos asked them and bramimond not there anymore to maintain the seal prior to FE6. Do we find any kind of seal when taking the other divine weapon thats not touched at all in FE7 like Maltet, Mulagir ? Heck, Yodel bring one with him. So any kind of forces guarding the seals tomb is just happen to be there. not because it is placed there. otherwise we can clear the game using Yodel only since he apparently can clear a Divine Seal tomb by himself (and maybe some regular green unit). that would be funny tho.

also if we say its Hartmut personal weapon, it can be said to other divine weapon since their soul in it. nothing more personal than an item that contains you soul memory. But if its bound to hartmurt descendant it makes some sense a bit. since Hartmurt found Bern to guard the seal so maybe he's the only one who still use it after war

[Whisky]

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

it can be said to other divine weapon since their soul in it.

Is that in FE6 or only FE7? I don't remember any mention of that in FE6.

[joevar]

3 minutes ago, Whisky said:

Is that in FE6 or only FE7? I don't remember any mention of that in FE6.

FE6 kind of (Roy see Hartmut memories), and explicitly in FE7. lore in FE7 still not expanded enough despite having 2 Divine general still alive (maybe because the dragon only relevant in endgame?)

Edited October 22, 2020 by joevar

[German FE Nino]

9 minutes ago, joevar said:

how do we know theres no physical seal? afaik, Eckesachs didnt appear at all in Blazing blade.

I said physical seal, not magical seal. Eckesachs is the only legendary weapon that is never mentioned to have one. As for how Yoder got his hands on it with the help of the troops that were liberating the other realm(because both are getting liberated, regardless of where Roy goes.)When it comes to the souls and the memories, idk. I mean, I seriously have no idea what to say about those. FE7 only confirmed them for Armads and Durandal. Plus that they are not even a factor considering Athos never became a ghost like that somehow.
 

4 minutes ago, joevar said:

FE6 kind of (Roy see Hartmut memories)

That is kinda not the same thing because Hartmut himself never appears. I think it is supposed to be the memory of the sword because it was once linked to his soul but no longer is...or something. The binding blade is still a weird factor in the elibian lore. How did humanity even create it when it is basically shown to be a godlike entity in the relative scale of the world it comes from?

Edited October 22, 2020 by German FE Nino

[Whisky]

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

FE6 kind of (Roy see Hartmut memories), and explicitly in FE7. lore in FE7 still not expanded enough despite having 2 Divine general still alive (maybe because the dragon only relevant in endgame?)

Ah yes that's true, but that's only for the Binding Blade, not the Divine Weapons. That's also Hartmut's memories, not his actual soul, if I'm remember correctly.

[joevar]

Just now, German FE Nino said:

That is kinda not the same thing because Hartmut himself never appears. I think it is supposed to be the memory of the sword because it was once linked to his soul but no longer is...or something. The binding blade is still a weird factor in the elibian lore. How did humanity even create it when it is basically shown to be a godlike entity in the relative scale of the world it comes from?

like i said, if anyone or theres a time in game that should be explained, it would be in FE7 since theres Athos, but no. they are tight-lipped (or just IS tradition to not dwell too much in the past, lol)

[Whisky]

4 minutes ago, joevar said:

like i said, if anyone or theres a time in game that should be explained, it would be in FE7 since theres Athos, but no. they are tight-lipped (or just IS tradition to not dwell too much in the past, lol)

FE7 is the only game that needs to explain it because FE7 is the one that changed it. The Divine Weapons didn't have souls inside them in FE6.

8 minutes ago, German FE Nino said:

I think it is supposed to be the memory of the sword because it was once linked to his soul but no longer is...or something.

That sounds right actually. It was the Sword's memory. 

8 minutes ago, German FE Nino said:

The binding blade is still a weird factor in the elibian lore. How did humanity even create it when it is basically shown to be a godlike entity in the relative scale of the world it comes from?

Yeah, good point. The Divine Weapons were powerful enough to warp physics when they clashed with the dragons and the Binding Blade is somehow something even more special? What is this Sword?

[joevar]

14 minutes ago, Whisky said:

Ah yes that's true, but that's only for the Binding Blade, not the Divine Weapons. That's also Hartmut's memories, not his actual soul, if I'm remember correctly.

i've suggested that to be included/explained in possible remake in this topic in the past. Like possibly giving us some kind of Memory prism like in echoes everytime we collect a Divine Weapon. (or better yet, gives us paralogue starring them)

FE7 works well with soul talking since the divine weapon is specifically for the lord i guess

15 minutes ago, German FE Nino said:

I said physical seal,

oh, i dont remember about physical seal, so dunno. i thought seal placed by bramimond

Edited October 22, 2020 by joevar

[Samz707]

Change the requirements of certain Gaidens and more explicitly state when the player has locked themselves out. (at least pull a Morrowind and tell us when we've messed up.)

Stuff like Chapter 16 is sadistic. (So don't kill the Armor Knight who charges across the map at you and make sure to stop to recruit a dude behind a breakable wall while Douglas is charging after you and if you don't, have fun losing the true ending without any indication at the time you messed up, Douglas doesn't even tell you where the Shrine is so it just feels like trying to sell those strategy guides.)

I don't mind a game letting me mess up but there's a difference between "Mistake in current chapter" and "Oh that seemingly important dude who died nearly 10 chapters ago is now needed to recruit a vital character."

In FE7 you just missed Gaiden chapters that weren't too important for the most part/ the odd character with some of the harsher requirements, you never got locked out of the game's ending for it.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Samz707

[Benice]

34 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Change the requirements of certain Gaidens and more explicitly state when the player has locked themselves out. (at least pull a Morrowind and tell us when we've messed up.)

Stuff like Chapter 16 is sadistic. (So don't kill the Armor Knight who charges across the map at you and make sure to stop to recruit a dude behind a breakable wall while Douglas is charging after you and if you don't, have fun losing the true ending without any indication at the time you messed up, Douglas doesn't even tell you where the Shrine is so it just feels like trying to sell those strategy guides.)

I don't mind a game letting me mess up but there's a difference between "Mistake in current chapter" and "Oh that seemingly important dude who died nearly 10 chapters ago is now needed to recruit a vital character."

I definitely agree. Heck, I'd even go so far as to remove the gaiden requirements for the most part.

35 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

In FE7 you just missed Gaiden chapters that weren't too important for the most part/ the odd character with some of the harsher requirements, you never got locked out of the game's ending for it.

I really disagree on this one-The requirements in FE6 are not great, but if you play well you will unlock them. FE7's are ridiculously obscure, and to get any idea of Nergal's character, you have to:

• Opt to play Lyn mode a second time and somehow get Nils to level 7, (ridiculously steep given that there are probably 30 turns left in Lyn mode, tops)
• Beat chapter 19H in 15 turns, (This one's not too bad. It's never mentioned, but not unreasonable.)
• In one turn to attack him, defeat an insanely annoying boss who leaves after turn 8 on HHM and turn 12 on HNM, (unless I goofed my memory up, but he's really hard to kill regardless.)
• Recruit Jaffar and Nino and go to Night of Farewells? (I'm not too sure if this one's required for the good ending)
• Beat Victory or Death in 20 turns, which was, (at least for me,) really, really hard. I BARELY made it-I was nearly stopped because there were enemies on literally every space of Limstella's island. I do keep in mind that this is in my ironman, which had a very large shortage of units, so maybe in a regular playthrough it'd be more manageable.
• Also Nergal is just a ripoff Guenchaos

 

Dangit, I went on an irrelevant rant on FE7 again...

Uh, anyways, TL;DR, I think that true ending requirements should not be there other than as a toggleable setting/difficulty-related function, (so that more casual players can get the good ending without killing themselves by having to meet tough requirements) and must be made clear the moment requirements must start being met. (Axing weird ones like Nils being level 7 before Lyn mode would also be nice.)

[Whisky]

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Change the requirements of certain Gaidens and more explicitly state when the player has locked themselves out. (at least pull a Morrowind and tell us when we've messed up.)

Yeah, I agree with this as well. I think people generally complain a bit too much about it, since I really don't find it that hard if you know what you're doing, but I definitely agree that the game should be more clear about what you need to do and when you failed to meet one of the requirements. I actually like that this exists as an extra challenge with the reward of a few more chapters and a better ending. I think it adds replayability in way. I don't think players should just be given the secret ending but actually have to work for it a bit, it gives them a way to improve from their first playthrough to their second. But it would be nice for the game to make it clear about what you're supposed to do so that players don't need to look it up to even know about it. Failing to meet the requirements should be an actual failure on the player's part instead of just not knowing what they did wrong.

[Samz707]

18 minutes ago, Benice said:

I definitely agree. Heck, I'd even go so far as to remove the gaiden requirements for the most part.

I really disagree on this one-The requirements in FE6 are not great, but if you play well you will unlock them. FE7's are ridiculously obscure, and to get any idea of Nergal's character, you have to:

• Opt to play Lyn mode a second time and somehow get Nils to level 7, (ridiculously steep given that there are probably 30 turns left in Lyn mode, tops)
• Beat chapter 19H in 15 turns, (This one's not too bad. It's never mentioned, but not unreasonable.)
• In one turn to attack him, defeat an insanely annoying boss who leaves after turn 8 on HHM and turn 12 on HNM, (unless I goofed my memory up, but he's really hard to kill regardless.)
• Recruit Jaffar and Nino and go to Night of Farewells? (I'm not too sure if this one's required for the good ending)
• Beat Victory or Death in 20 turns, which was, (at least for me,) really, really hard. I BARELY made it-I was nearly stopped because there were enemies on literally every space of Limstella's island. I do keep in mind that this is in my ironman, which had a very large shortage of units, so maybe in a regular playthrough it'd be more manageable.
• Also Nergal is just a ripoff Guenchaos

 

Dangit, I went on an irrelevant rant on FE7 again...

Uh, anyways, TL;DR, I think that true ending requirements should not be there other than as a toggleable setting/difficulty-related function, (so that more casual players can get the good ending without killing themselves by having to meet tough requirements) and must be made clear the moment requirements must start being met. (Axing weird ones like Nils being level 7 before Lyn mode would also be nice.)

At least the Nergal backstory thing is a second playthrough bonus thing (even if I admit it's dumb), you at least get a proper resolution to the main plot regardless.

I'd argue that for Chapter 16, it's not really well designed, Nothing says that killing Douglas isn't just losing a potential recruit (he's not even the one who tells you where the Shrine is so it feels non-sensical his survival is required, he's not even mentioned in the cutscene afterwards regardless if he's dead or alive.), plus you have to get Zeiss, who's behind a very strong wall, I would have had to restart if Douglas had followed Melady instead of Roy when I had them split up at that point and I only even went for Zeiss since I accidently found out he was required, I would have just left him alone to focus on killing Narcian first if I didn't accidently see that when I was looking up the Purge spell to talk about it with a friend so I actually nearly got screwed over.

[German FE Nino]

27 minutes ago, Benice said:

Recruit Jaffar and Nino and go to Night of Farewells? (I'm not too sure if this one's required for the good ending)

I know this is not a FE7 thread, but the chapters required for unlocking the bonusCG and nergals full deathquote other than 19xx are genesis and the value of life.

[Benice]

Just now, German FE Nino said:

I know this is not a FE7 thread, but the chapters required for unlocking the bonusCG and nergals full deathquote other than 19xx are genesis and the value of life.

Ah, okay.

Oh right, Genesis.

OH RIGHT, GENESIS

Gads...That map...

10 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

I'd argue that for Chapter 16, it's not really well designed

It's not very well thought out, I agree. You have a sleep staff to deal with Douglas, though, and he won't attack your dancer. (They really should just give the dancers a talk convo with him to recruit him...) tbh Gaiden requirements in general aren't very well thought-out.

[German FE Nino]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

(They really should just give the dancers a talk convo with him to recruit him...)

I thought the game itself establishes that he cannot because he does not want to increase the chance of the king getting murdered by even 0.01%. I think the best way of dealing with the issue is to just change his AI to not moving after the dancer speaks with him. 

[Whisky]

1 minute ago, German FE Nino said:

I thought the game itself establishes that he cannot because he does not want to increase the chance of the king getting murdered by even 0.01%. I think the best way of dealing with the issue is to just change his AI to not moving after the dancer speaks with him. 

I agree. It makes sense that he won't join you until the King is safe, but it's annoying that he chases you around the whole time.

[Benice]

3 minutes ago, German FE Nino said:

I thought the game itself establishes that he cannot because he does not want to increase the chance of the king getting murdered by even 0.01%. I think the best way of dealing with the issue is to just change his AI to not moving after the dancer speaks with him. 

That's a really good idea, actually. They really should implement this.

[Samz707]

19 minutes ago, Benice said:

Ah, okay.

Oh right, Genesis.

OH RIGHT, GENESIS

Gads...That map...

It's not very well thought out, I agree. You have a sleep staff to deal with Douglas, though, and he won't attack your dancer. (They really should just give the dancers a talk convo with him to recruit him...) tbh Gaiden requirements in general aren't very well thought-out.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at this point of the old Gaiden requirements were to sell strategy guides and the only reason they're gone nowadays is that the unfair hard difficulty modes can sell Grinding DLC instead.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Change the requirements of certain Gaidens and more explicitly state when the player has locked themselves out. (at least pull a Morrowind and tell us when we've messed up.)

Stuff like Chapter 16 is sadistic. (So don't kill the Armor Knight who charges across the map at you and make sure to stop to recruit a dude behind a breakable wall while Douglas is charging after you and if you don't, have fun losing the true ending without any indication at the time you messed up, Douglas doesn't even tell you where the Shrine is so it just feels like trying to sell those strategy guides.)

I don't mind a game letting me mess up but there's a difference between "Mistake in current chapter" and "Oh that seemingly important dude who died nearly 10 chapters ago is now needed to recruit a vital character."

In FE7 you just missed Gaiden chapters that weren't too important for the most part/ the odd character with some of the harsher requirements, you never got locked out of the game's ending for it.

Can't say I ever had any trouble figuring out you're meant to keep Douglas alive. He's clearly coded as a recruitable unit. And in lieu of any talk command recruiting him in the map I didn't just assume I could kill him. That being said the larger point I do agree with as I did miss the ending on my first playthrough (I think it was running out of turns for the Ilia gaiden). It sort of sucks and the road block for it isn't even all that justified in terms of plot.

22 minutes ago, German FE Nino said:

I thought the game itself establishes that he cannot because he does not want to increase the chance of the king getting murdered by even 0.01%. I think the best way of dealing with the issue is to just change his AI to not moving after the dancer speaks with him. 

So am I the only one who actually likes the challenge of keeping a powerful enemy alive until the end of the chapter?

Edited October 24, 2020 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

So am I the only one who actually likes the challenge of keeping a powerful enemy alive until the end of the chapter?

Challenge, what challenge? Douglas is not strong. Okay, 34 Atk stings, but he's slow, immobile and not the most accurate either. He ain't the Lu Bu of FE, he's no Death Knight. Specter Knight needs a plan and prep to survive and even better, kill, Douglas has no such needs. Get him against a wall or corner with 2-3 unarmed units to trap him, healing whenever a Silver Axe swing hits. Anyone can do that. It's tedium wherein you bench a few of your fielded units for a bunch of the fight while everyone else goes about cleaning up the map, Douglas in the meanwhile does nothing of note.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

31 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Challenge, what challenge? Douglas is not strong. Okay, 34 Atk stings, but he's slow, immobile and not the most accurate either. He ain't the Lu Bu of FE, he's no Death Knight. Specter Knight needs a plan and prep to survive and even better, kill, Douglas has no such needs. Get him against a wall or corner with 2-3 unarmed units to trap him, healing whenever a Silver Axe swing hits. Anyone can do that. It's tedium wherein you bench a few of your fielded units for a bunch of the fight while everyone else goes about cleaning up the map, Douglas in the meanwhile does nothing of note.

You still need to maneuver him into that wall and then your down a few units that map (personally I stick my dancer and a tanky unit in the corridor in the center of the map and trap him on the other side). If you have some one talk to him that recruits him mid map or even worse have his AI shut down after talking to him then he's a complete non obstacle on the map who might as well not exist.

[German FE Nino]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

So am I the only one who actually likes the challenge of keeping a powerful enemy alive until the end of the chapter?

Kinda. And even then, you could still do it if you just do not talk to him.

[Jotari]

20 hours ago, German FE Nino said:

Kinda. And even then, you could still do it if you just do not talk to him.

I could also drop all the Legendary Weapons and do a no Support playthrough if I choose, doesn't mean I particularly want the game to actually be that way. I like that Douglas's recruitment is a bit more involved than a standard unit talk to other unit.