S Rank Tier List for FE7

[DomDaDude]

Shouldn't Rebecca be higher. I know that each game is different but she's still pretty good right?

[Janissary]

Rebecca sucks more than Paris Hilton.

[Deliriyum]

I think Hawkeye should be moved up, closer to Geitz. They are very comparable, except Hawkeye has chapter 23 utility, and has all of chapter 24.

Base Geitz
Killer Axe/Steel Bow
44 hp
30/28 Mt
96/101 Hit
14 AS
38 Avoid
12 def
4 res
36/6 crt

Base Hawkeye
Killer Axe
50 hp
29 Mt
100 hit
11 AS
35 Avoid
14 def
10 res
52 crt

So Hawkeye wins in durability when he isn't being doubled, and their offense is about the same because of Hawkeye's chance to crit-blick enemies. Also, Geitz has much less of a potential to be used in his joining chapter.

Edit: in c24, Hawkeye is only getting doubled by the 3 heroes, which he should avoid anyway. He doubles the steel lance wyverns, the steel axe corsairs, and the hand axe corsairs. Geitz doubles all the wyverns and all the corsairs, and isn't doubled by anything.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Core

[Janissary]

Hawkeye also helps with Peaktanking and waterwalking skills.

[Life]

Hawkeye is very similar to Geitz except there's a couple of nice perks that Geitz has. Namely sole access to the Brave Bow (Geitz has 14 AS with it vs. Louise's 11 thanks to that -6 AS penalty since Louise is the only real contender without promoting an archer) along with much better accuracy from 2 range. Not to mention that he also can hit 3 spaces away with a Longbow. The range game is Geitz's by a mile.

Another perk is the fact that Geitz gets better over time thanks to his growths. I'm looking at the 85 HP and 40 Spd vs. Hawkeye's 50 and 25 growth rates. If we extrapolate a bit, we get these results by Cog of Destiny.

Hawkeye - Level 9 Berserker - S Axe
Killer Axe: 31 Atk, 12 AS, 107 Hit, 57 Crit, 39 Avo, 15 CEva
Steel Axe: 31 Atk, 12 AS, 107 Hit, 27 Crit, 39 Avo, 15 CEva
Hand Axe: 27 Atk, 12 AS, 102 Hit, 27 Crit, 39 Avo, 15 CEva
52 HP, 15 Def, 12 Res

Geitz - Level 9 Warrior - A Axe, B Bow
Steel Axe: 33 Atk, 14 AS, 101 Hit, 7 Crit, 40 Avo, 12 CEva
Steel Bow: 31 Atk, 16 AS, 106 Hit, 7 Crit, 44 Avo, 12 CEva
Longbow: 27 Atk, 16 AS, 101 Hit, 7 Crit, 44 Avo, 12 CEva
Brave Bow: 32 Atk, 16 AS, 106 Hit, 7 Crit, 44 Avo, 12 CEva
49 HP, 13 Def, 5 Res

Let me just get this straight. Geitz is destroying Hawkeye on the offensive end. Yeah, Hawkeye can insta-kill a guy. Great. He still needs that guy to have less than 9 AS by CoD to have a reliable chance of actually landing that needed critical hit with the Killer Axe. With the slowest Axe around, Geitz still has more AS than Hawkeye along with 2 extra Atk (4 after doubling). And now we have some sample AS values from the previous chapter.

Sniper w/ Steel Bow - 39 HP, 10 AS, 9 Def - Geitz doubles even with a Steel Axe and downs him in one round. Hawkeye needs to crit to kill.

Paladin w/ Silver Lance - 43 HP, 12 AS, 12 Def - Geitz leaves him with 5 HP after doubling from far with a Steel Bow. Hawkeye only does 16 damage.

Cavalier w/ Poison Lance - 34 HP, 11 AS, 9 Def - Geitz kills at range, Hawkeye doesn't. Up close, Geitz leaves him with 9 HP (an Iron Axe kills this guy) while Hawkeye leaves 11 HP.

Cavalier w/ Poison Sword - 33 HP, 9 AS, 9 Def - Geitz kills, Hawkeye doesn't.

Sage w/ Elfire - 35 HP, 10 AS, 10 Def - Geitz kills at all ranges, Hawkeye only kills with a critical.

Nomad w/ Poison Bow - 26 HP, 13 AS, 6 Def - Ok, this one hurts. Hawkeye is 1 Atk short of OHKOing this guy while Geitz can one-hit him at range (Brave Bow) or in close (Steel Axe).

Pirate w/ Hand Axe - 32 HP, 9 AS, 4 Def - Geitz kills, Hawkeye doesn't.

Are you starting to see a pattern here?

On the defensive side of the ball, Hawkeye leads but not by much. He's got a 3 HP and 2 Def lead while Geitz basically wins Avo by 5 which amounts to maybe 1 point of HP in the grand scheme of things.

Can they be closer? Probably. Will Hawkeye ever sit right below Geitz? No. Geitz has the ENTIRE offensive game wrapped up (pure attacking power, speed and range) while Hawkeye exists for 1.5 extra chapters (doesn't do much in Living Legend but he's great in Genesis) and has a bit of an edge in defense. Hawkeye probably won't even move past Fiora so if you want to move him up, argue him vs. Dorcas and Canas.

Hawkeye also helps with Peaktanking and waterwalking skills.

Yippee. Why do you think these are game changing?

Edited August 4, 2010 by Life Admiral

[Janissary]

They aren't. I was just commenting an addition to the above post. I personally don't use Hawkeye and think that Geitz is better.

[God of Humility]

I'd like to know why Lyn is not higher on that list. I'm not arguing but I'm curious. I thought that having 10 chapters to level before the main story would help her, as well as her Mani Katti.

[Life]

I'd like to know why Lyn is not higher on that list. I'm not arguing but I'm curious. I thought that having 10 chapters to level before the main story would help her, as well as her Mani Katti.

She doesn't get credit for her own mode. Only for what goes on in HHM.

Lyn's got paper thin durability. She is the physical glass cannon in this game. Even if she comes in at Level 9, she's toting 4 Def and 2 Res. This is the kind of defense that someone like Erk has. Canas' durability is even better than this. And yet Lyn is locked to 1 range, forcing her to eat counters.

Her offense is great, don't get me wrong. It's that fucking defense that makes her aggravating.

[God of Humility]

I understand now, thanks.

[Life]

Time to necro this shit.

I'm going to make a suggestion that sounds... weird but hear me out. I believe that we should change this list from HHM to EHM.

Here's my reasoning. I just looked back on my EHM run and both Bal and I agreed that EHM is probably the harder mode to S Rank because of no 0 Exp chapters. The last 2 chapters force you to gain 93.5 levels alone... but you don't have a spare chapter during your run where no matter what you do, it's a positive for the Exp rank.

While HHM has harder enemies, I genuinely believe that completing an S Rank run on EHM is much more difficult due to the Exp constraints that is placed on your team. So the question is this: Should the tier list be for the harder MODE or the harder CHALLENGE?

[Florete]

What about the fact (that I've mentioned about twice now) that HHM has fewer turns to be completed in? More turns can be converted to more experience via arenas and skipped enemies. I can't believe EHM is actually harder when you consider that. It just means you need to do more enemy feeding, but with weaker enemies in general that should already be easier.

[Don Draper]

.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Don Draper

[Florete]

I could have sworn HHM had reduced exp gains compared to the other modes as well. Meaning your characters gain more exp in EHM.

I believe both HMs have the experience cut.

[Life]

I believe both HMs have the experience cut.

Both do.

[deleted35362]

I should pay attention to this list because I've tried HHM once and that

thing was a pain to the 999th degree. Damn nomads.

Edited January 10, 2011 by April

[Florete]

Honestly, it's about time Serra dropped below Priscilla on here. It's pretty much the same thing as in the efficiency list because you still want to be cutting turns, and Priscilla's 2 move and horse are an invaluable advantage in more than one way that Serra has no answer to. There's not much else to it; I could mention her supports are more viable, but I wouldn't say either are realistically getting any. I might be able to argue her combat ability, but enemies suck enough to the point where I don't think it really matters. It's that utility of Priscilla's that makes her so great, and Serra is just a handicapped version of that.

[Geriba]

Honestly, it's about time Serra dropped below Priscilla on here. It's pretty much the same thing as in the efficiency list because you still want to be cutting turns, and Priscilla's 2 move and horse are an invaluable advantage in more than one way that Serra has no answer to. There's not much else to it; I could mention her supports are more viable, but I wouldn't say either are realistically getting any. I might be able to argue her combat ability, but enemies suck enough to the point where I don't think it really matters. It's that utility of Priscilla's that makes her so great, and Serra is just a handicapped version of that.

I'll tentatively agree, but remember the basis behind the Serra > Priscilla placement: because of LHM, Serra' initial level is going to be quite high. This means that she'll be promoting earlier while having comparable (if not slightly better) stats. That said, I do think Prissy's mounted utility edges out Serra's level lead and slight availability advantage, but I don't think the two need to travel in any radical directions- put Priscilla over Serra and keep the two where they are relative to everyone else.

[Florete]

I'll tentatively agree, but remember the basis behind the Serra > Priscilla placement: because of LHM, Serra' initial level is going to be quite high. This means that she'll be promoting earlier while having comparable (if not slightly better) stats. That said, I do think Prissy's mounted utility edges out Serra's level lead and slight availability advantage, but I don't think the two need to travel in any radical directions- put Priscilla over Serra and keep the two where they are relative to everyone else.

I do agree with the level lead, but remember that Priscilla still wins until Serra promotes and before she does. Since Serra shouldn't be high enough to promote before Physics come into play, Priscilla won't be far behind anyway. And yeah, right below her is fine, Serra doesn't need to drop any further than that.

[Life]

I do agree with the level lead, but remember that Priscilla still wins until Serra promotes and before she does. Since Serra shouldn't be high enough to promote before Physics come into play, Priscilla won't be far behind anyway. And yeah, right below her is fine, Serra doesn't need to drop any further than that.

I completely forgot about.

Personally, I believe that the two are equal. In a lot of chapters, they're interchangable, Serra promotes earlier (this is key since we're actually trying to get them to 20/1 for Exp) while Prissy has movement...

Fox, as much as you can argue Rescue and Aid, it really doesn't seem like it puts Prissy ahead of Serra since it was generally a non factor when I was doing my runs. Serra generally has better stats and while that pretty much means nothing, it does factor in to after promotion performance. But like I said, I'm on the fence on this one. If I see an argument that convinces me to back either of them, I'll throw my own support there.

[Florete]

I completely forgot about.

Personally, I believe that the two are equal. In a lot of chapters, they're interchangable, Serra promotes earlier (this is key since we're actually trying to get them to 20/1 for Exp) while Prissy has movement...

Fox, as much as you can argue Rescue and Aid, it really doesn't seem like it puts Prissy ahead of Serra since it was generally a non factor when I was doing my runs. Serra generally has better stats and while that pretty much means nothing, it does factor in to after promotion performance. But like I said, I'm on the fence on this one. If I see an argument that convinces me to back either of them, I'll throw my own support there.

Rescue and Aid may be somewhat situational in a ranked run, but the benefits it can provide are very real even so. Even aside from the standard advancement, it can be used to get someone out of an Arena, for example, so you can send someone else in on the same turn. The benefits it provides to positioning in general are also extremely valuable.

Honestly, I have to contest Serra's early promotion, or at least how much it's worth. If you really want to capitalize on their experience gain, Serra shouldn't be coming out of LHM any higher than maybe level 4, and then it's obvious she won't be promoting much sooner, if at all. Even with a higher level, it just means that her experience contribution is lessened, and although she'll promote sooner, she still won't promote for a while, probably not until Physics come in, as I mentioned.

And then Priscilla's 2 move allows her to heal and fight more often, etc.

And one more thing to mention about Serra's level is the whole S ranking LHM thing. I remember it being fairly difficult to use both stat boosters and get an S rank, and using up a ton of heals isn't making things any easier. I'm not saying she shouldn't get anything, but I doubt you'll want to use more than one full Heal staff.

[Florete]

So, uh, anything?

[Life]

So, uh, anything?

Well, someone needs to reply and I don't want to defend a point that I don't necessarily agree with.

Honestly, I don't think Priscilla is better or worse than Serra. I actually think an equal sign is necessary.

[Florete]

Well, someone needs to reply and I don't want to defend a point that I don't necessarily agree with.

Honestly, I don't think Priscilla is better or worse than Serra. I actually think an equal sign is necessary.

Well, it's at least a start. Just pretty much know that I'll always support Priscilla > Serra, and Jaffar also agreed.

[Life]

Well, it's at least a start. Just pretty much know that I'll always support Priscilla > Serra, and Jaffar also agreed.

Do you think I should wait 24 hours or so before making the change or what?

It's a start but I know for a fact that I don't see conclusive evidence that Prissy is better than Serra. I won't argue that Serra's better, just that Prissy isn't better.

[Florete]

Do you think I should wait 24 hours or so before making the change or what?

It's a start but I know for a fact that I don't see conclusive evidence that Prissy is better than Serra. I won't argue that Serra's better, just that Prissy isn't better.

It's been plenty long enough (over a week since the initial post). Any change you plan to make, make it now.

If you don't see it now, I don't think you will unless you just accept it for a while. That's not to say it's wrong at all, though. Personally, I think the notion of Serra > Priscilla is an outdated train of thought that's still lingering despite all the evidence that points the other way because people have always believed it. I don't mean that offensively, it's just how I'm seeing it.