Prince of Tennis Mafia - Game Over

[Kay]

##Unvote

##Vote: Eclipse

Most people aren't seeming all that suspicious to me, except Eclipse, who looks to just be attacking Kevin with some odd reasoning (why are you backing up your argument with an example of him acting the same way when he was town-aligned?), and otherwise being really noncommittal.

First, I don't think that's a real role. It would be the most ridiculous thing ever if it was a mafia role, and really silly if it was a town one. It might work if this game was OC, but meh.

Not really. I've seen that role in a NOC game before, it didn't seem particularly silly at the time. (not that I think it's silly now)

[Kaoz]

Kaoz, bro, I totally have a vote on Tables, don't I?

Yes, I must have overlooked it. My apologies.

Updated and hopefully correct votals..

[1] eclipse: Kay

[2] JB: Paperblade, Prims

[3] Kay: Bizz, Kevin, JB

[1] Kevin: eclipse

[1] Naglfar: Bal

[1] Tables: Strawman

Edited December 16, 2011 by Kaoz

[Zkirsche]

You missed JB's recent vote on Kay, which you included in the votal just before that. :p

Yeah. I agree with you. But I generally don't like being asked why people should bother letting me play the game if I'm just that stupid, which is how I interpreted Kevin's post. Yes, it's not logical, I'm a horrible person for ever not liking anyone's attitude, I get it. If Kevin had made any actual point instead of just that I wasn't worth not lynching, I would have addressed them.

I didn't say you were stupid, I said that you don't talk and don't contribute to discussion a lot, whether that's because you're busy or wahatever, if you're going to be busy don't sig-

Oh you said that. Regardless, when you DO speak, you speak sense, but getting you to speak is another matter, and if I have to force words out of you by pressuring you so be it.

I want him to cut it out, because it's fucking annoying.

No. Doing that has just spawned 7 extra pages of discussion in one night, uncovering stubborn voters (you) a sheep (JB) and a lot of player's thoughts on the game.

[Naglfar]

jb is demoted to scootaloo

[Tables]

Umm... Strawman, why exactly do you have a vote on me? Your reason was basically "You're suspicious of Bal, you aren't top of my suspicions but YOU'RE SUSPICIOUS OF BAL HOW COULD YOU?" Which, uh, doesn't seem that convincing.

I'm going to give this whole Kay/Naglfar thing another look, see if I actually find either of them scummy.

[Tables]

Oh yeah, and your votals still seem to exlude votes by and for me.

I've looked over Kay's posts and stuff, and I still think he's been non-scummy. If anything, I've gotten slight towntells from him. Going to look at Eclipse and Naglfar now.

[Life]

I know I'm not playing but... I just need to respond to a couple things on the first page.

SMS is theoretically broken as hell since an investigative role could just PM their results to a cleared or next-to-confirmed townie

<Cocaine> SMS is theoretically broken as hell since an investigative role could just PM their results to a cleared or next-to-confirmed townie

<Cocaine> TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

<Cocaine> OH MY GOD, SKILL IN AN NOC GAME

<Cocaine> NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

So... a semi-informed lynch in a NOC rather than a lucky guess means that there's a problem? OH MY GOD, LOGICAL THINKING AND SKILL EXIST IN THIS GAME! THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!

[13:48] <Paperblade> what happens if there is a tie between a user and no lynch

[13:51] <Kaoz> technically that guy would be lynched and the next cycle would be NL.. let me think about this for a minute...

[13:54] <Kaoz> yeah, that's how it would be...

[13:54] <Paperblade> =/

[13:54] <Kaoz> blame Life

[13:55] <Paperblade> so basically

[13:55] <Paperblade> don't do that

This was something that I was talking to Kaoz before the game started. I personally think that towns deserve a penalty if they have a tie lynch because they didn't get their shit together when they had the majority. NOC or OC. Doesn't matter. Kaoz agreed with me but I did not tell him to put it in. I just gave my opinion.

[Zkirsche]

*she

[Zkirsche]

That was at tables calling kay a he.

[Tables]

I've looked over Nags and Eclipse... I disagree with both of their reasoning on voting Kevin, to some degree, but they don't seem hugely suspicious to me. Which leaves me with... very few suspicions. Hm.

[Kaoz]

Life, I was just joking with that.

Oh yeah, and your votals still seem to exlude votes by and for me.

I lack sleep >_>;;

Edited with the votes against you, I believe you don't have a vote on anyone at this point in time.

[Jaybee]

I would kind of like JB to give an opinion rather than just throwing a vote on whoever has the most votes

##Unvote, ##Vote; JB

It's the same opinion as the others with a vote on her; Where is she, when is she going to post, etc.

And before someone jumps on me for that, that's all there is to it. Call me out for sheeping, whatever, but I guess that sucks for me when I think someone else's logic for voting her works and I decide it's a good idea to follow, right?

jb is demoted to scootaloo

of all the ponies

why

and isn't scootaloo supposed to be chicken or something like that

[Percivalé]

- I don't mind Levity throwing out suspicion, but I wish it were a bit more organized.

Sadly I suppose it's just a bad habit--especially on D1. I don't want to give myself an excuse to be disorganized, but short bursts of collective thought seems to one of the first things I do to get myself motivated to scumhunt. I think I used to cruise through the beginning of SF games without actually doing much, and didn't even begin to become active until around later D2 or D3. It's silly.

Some thoughts:

Now back to Balcerzak.

I've had a look, and well it seems like you're always scum in all the games I checked. And of course that means you must be here too The ones I could find where you weren't, and the ones I did check otherwise, you didn't do this. Which is pretty strange if it's your 'standard operating procedure'. I mean, that in itself isn't suspicious, but just, uh, yeah.

This sounds like you're trying to use an odd explanation to pin down Bal as scum. While a playstyle change can indicate a faction one isn't used to, if Bal was always mafia before then wouldn't that mean he's town (there's probably not a third-party due to the size of this game but who knows) this time? This is only hypothetical--I'm saying that your logic here is odd, and I don't quite find him to be all that scummy at the moment, but he could be outplaying me this time.

Actually, I'm getting odd vibes from Tables now. I'm wary of anyone suspicious of me being scum for "always being scum."

Not entirely that, though--his posts have been rubbing me off the wrong way so far, and I can't quite put my finger on why. Perhaps I should review them after I've returned home for winter break.

Not really. I've seen that role in a NOC game before, it didn't seem particularly silly at the time. (not that I think it's silly now)

I kind of figured it was simply an example of a role PM and not an actual role in the game? Where did this discussion come from, anyway? (I know it was Bal, it's just a silly question; I didn't see the point of the speculation I suppose)

As for Kay: I'm liking her most recent posts a bit more.

Yeah. I agree with you. But I generally don't like being asked why people should bother letting me play the game if I'm just that stupid, which is how I interpreted Kevin's post. Yes, it's not logical, I'm a horrible person for ever not liking anyone's attitude, I get it. If Kevin had made any actual point instead of just that I wasn't worth not lynching, I would have addressed them.

Here, she explains her apathetic attitude reasonably. I understand where she comes from, as feeling insulted in mafia can lead to a lot of things said that don't quite sound pleasant when we reveal them. And now that it's not 3am and I'm not depressed, I can view this from a more logical perspective as well: what I meant to say earlier when I posted "Kay shouldn't be lynched simply for being quiet" should have read: "It was quite uncalled for when Kevin attacked Kay like that, and rather quite silly." Not that I'd accuse him of being scum for that; however, that isn't the most pro-town thing to say, now is it?

and I'm not skilled enough to be in it anyway

Aw, come on, cheer up. ): Don't let the game get you down~

##Unvote: Kay

I'm looking back to Naglfar now and considering voting him. His post in response to the other pressure votes didn't hold as ample content (he still seems to be swaying around a bit, and eclipse seems to have pointed out that his unvote was to please me? He shouldn't have to please me, but if his suspicion was that shaky, that was a silly vote), and his post following was a content-less post.

[Balcerzak]

Yeah. I agree with you. But I generally don't like being asked why people should bother letting me play the game if I'm just that stupid, which is how I interpreted Kevin's post. Yes, it's not logical, I'm a horrible person for ever not liking anyone's attitude, I get it. If Kevin had made any actual point instead of just that I wasn't worth not lynching, I would have addressed them.

I'm not giving up. I've been busy, I made a stupid post before I was too busy to say anything else, I get that it was a bad idea and I shouldn't have signed up for the game if I might have a life and I'm not skilled enough to be in it anyway, but my intent was never anything about giving up.

I haven't had that much time to read the game, I'm just trying to address what I can as soon as I can, so no, I don't have any solid reads on anyone, I'm still working on that. All I can say is that JB should post more too, but I can't say that because it's hypocritical, so you're just going to have to deal with that for now.

Have a little more self-esteem there, and also try to practice a little in-game out-of-game separation. If someone's attacking you or deliberately pushing your buttons, I would say that more often than not it is primarily to get a reaction, and not because you're legitimately hated or whatever. For one, I know that I personally don't dislike you or regard you as stupid or unskilled. Even if your area of expertise may be more focused on the OC games, you don't come off as a noob in NOC by any means. Everyone does have areas that they need to improve on or learn to better apply themself, though, and part of the recent image/style/whatever you've been projecting hasn't been altogether positive. If that's simply because it's a busy time of year, well then that's even more of a reason not to let it get to you, because if you are playing less than optimally it's because of circumstances and not of skill, right?

I'm making such a big point of this because, although hounding on people to try to get them to participate is normal and encouraged, I always feel terrible when somebody takes it the wrong way and is hounded out of the game. I prefer player elimination to happen in proper mafia style.

So your suspicion of me, and your subsequent vote, is based on what again?

Before I forget, I'm always fine with your little essays. Relevant or not, they stir up something to read, and maybe reply to occasionally. I suppose I could be better at identifying which ones are intended to mislead, but you're good at keeping the town awake and talking about everyone but you, which is always a good thing as long as you're not scum, in which case it's a good thing as long as we keep paying attention.

Snike's recent contribution sort of rubs me the wrong way ("bluh I don't really care about this" "let's not LaLu!"). It looks like some weak attempt to cover his/Kay's/Tables's asses, even though the only one in realistic danger of being lynched at the time was Kay. I guess I'll wait and see where all this goes.

Back to me. My Kevin vote, right? Pressure. I wanted to see how he would react to another vote, but it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth and he was asleep anyway. I'm not sure what else you want me to say on the matter.

Primarily the kevin thing and the aftermath, yes. I also was interested to see if after you'd had the minor confrontation with Bizz whether you were planning to try just sinking into the background to avoid further notice, or if I could make you come back for another round of discussion. Granted, part of the long abscence (~15 hour) was probably due to timezone mismatch, but I'm only really good with visualizing NA and EU timezones, so yours may just be throwing me off and I haven't gone and looked into it. I think given that you're still alive kicking, and picking up on interesting points my vote has probably done its job.

##Unvote

Umm... Strawman, why exactly do you have a vote on me? Your reason was basically "You're suspicious of Bal, you aren't top of my suspicions but YOU'RE SUSPICIOUS OF BAL HOW COULD YOU?" Which, uh, doesn't seem that convincing.

I had to go take another look at his post after this, and while somewhat of an exaggeration, this does make me feel a little uncomfortable. I honestly want people to examine me critically, and dislike being placed on some sort of pedestal.

Now let's see, I think I'll ##Vote:Tables.

You aren't at the very top of my suspicions list, but I find it strange you vote for Bal for for some of his rule discussion. We have plenty of time to discuss things with a 72 hour cycle that a little discussion of the rules at the beginning doesn't really seem like it'd be that distracting.

Strawman, Tables' critique of me wasn't solely for the rules discussion. Go back to it, and read it over one more time, carefully. It was my post about Kay and Nag that set off the warning bells in his head, and then after that he went to look to the earlier discussions for supporting evidence. Whether or not his suspicions were justified, that is perfectly ordinary behaviour. Find a hunch (based on either logic, gut, or whatever), and then go make sure you can back that up with facts. While a scum would often slightly distort the facts, in this case he was just calling it as it was, and from an outside point of view, even I could see how I had made myself look a little bad.

---

Looks like I need to think quite a bit more here. About 28 hours left to find a solid candidate.

[Percivalé]

Have a little more self-esteem there, and also try to practice a little in-game out-of-game separation. If someone's attacking you or deliberately pushing your buttons, I would say that more often than not it is primarily to get a reaction, and not because you're legitimately hated or whatever. For one, I know that I personally don't dislike you or regard you as stupid or unskilled. Even if your area of expertise may be more focused on the OC games, you don't come off as a noob in NOC by any means. Everyone does have areas that they need to improve on or learn to better apply themself, though, and part of the recent image/style/whatever you've been projecting hasn't been altogether positive. If that's simply because it's a busy time of year, well then that's even more of a reason not to let it get to you, because if you are playing less than optimally it's because of circumstances and not of skill, right?

I'm making such a big point of this because, although hounding on people to try to get them to participate is normal and encouraged, I always feel terrible when somebody takes it the wrong way and is hounded out of the game. I prefer player elimination to happen in proper mafia style.

I know I just pretty much concurred with this point already, Bal has explained it so much nicely than I did, haha. It's true, though--behavior can be affected by real life endeavors, and if this is the case, Kevin's remark on you looks only a bit more harsh now. And do try to have a bit more confidence; while mafia can be a source of stress and a time-consumer, it is simply a game, and practice makes perfect, you know. I understand you weren't lying down and giving up before, but don't let people like Kevin get to you; it only leads to more frustration and misleading reads on you through how you respond to them.

I had to go take another look at his post after this, and while somewhat of an exaggeration, this does make me feel a little uncomfortable. I honestly want people to examine me critically, and dislike being placed on some sort of pedestal.

Honestly, I'm still just a bit wary of you being scum, but I'm wary of everyone at the moment. My initial vibes from you, as I stated before, were that of scum due to a specific read I had that I didn't note down, so I can't quite recall where I found it/had it. /: Perhaps I may relocate it later, however I don't quite find you as scummy as I did before.

Strawman, Tables' critique of me wasn't solely for the rules discussion.

Noting Strawman for skimming through the post/not looking through it clearly enough.

[Percivalé]

You know, scratch that. I'll leave this here for now: ##Vote: Tables

I just... can't shake that feeling off about you. Nnngh.

WTF at the current votal having less votes than an earlier one.

Peoples' suspicions as a whole have become less concentrated, perhaps?

[Zkirsche]

Kevin's remark on you looks only a bit more harsh now.

I said Bal was talking sense, I didn't insult him.

[Zkirsche]

If you meant Kay, I didn't mean it in a "bad player" way, just wanted to get her talking and get everyone else talking.

[Percivalé]

I said Bal was talking sense, I didn't insult him.

I was referring to your attacking Kay.

[Percivalé]

---

(I suck at reiterating myself)

[Percivalé]

lol wait, I didn't mean to leave that there

that was by accident

[Zkirsche]

Also, can everyone list the players in order from most scummy to least scummy, that way we can get a bit of organisation going.

1. JB

2. Eclipse

3. Kay

4. Naglfar

5.Tables

6.Strawman

7.Bizz

8. Snike

9. Balcerzak

10.Paperblade

11. Prims

12. Me

Thinking about it, Kay's response just now was ok enough for me to change my vote, and JB's sheeping is probably the scummiest thing here atm.

##Unvote

##Vote: JBCWK

[Percivalé]

Might be better if you gave reasons as to why you arranged people in that order in the first place.

(I'm a hypocrite when I say this I suppose)

[Zkirsche]

Well PB/Prims/Bal/PB/Snike are acting townish and are trying to contribute. Strawman hasn't done a lot. I'm neutral on you because althoguh you're talking a lot, you have literally accussed everyone here of being scummy in some way.

Tables seems a bit iffy but I'm mostly neutral on him too. I don't like naglfar's reason to vote for me (inb4 omgus) because "a little more neurotic than usual" isn't a reason either way. Kay for dodging stuff early on. Eclipse for being stubborn and JB for sheeping.

Tbh a lot of those in the middle are just thrown there because I have little opinion on.

[Zkirsche]

Also, don't run off without doing it please, we need info like that in the open.