Prince of Tennis Mafia - Game Over

[eclipse]

Dammit, Kevin, you talk sense, and then you get butthurt about me being suspicious of you, and justify your behavior by saying it promotes discussion. No, you're NOT supposed to promote discussion by intentionally making yourself look scummy by overreacting to shit. If it wasn't for the fact that this was an invite-only game, I'd sub out this minute, because it's dumbshit things like this (and the lack of people telling you to cut it out) that are contributing to the stagnation of this subforum.

I was considering moving my vote elsewhere (i.e. Nags), but now I don't see the point. If you want to make yourself look scummy, fine, but don't expect me to vote elsewhere. I vote for who I think is scummiest, and it's still you. Whether anyone else agrees with me is their own prerogative.

- Nags is looking a bit more townish, but I'm still not comfortable with him folding earlier this phase, and his reasoning for voting Kevin isn't one I like (he was already acting stupid at two, what good is more pressure after that?)

- I will go over Tables and Bal's posts in more detail when I'm not running late for work. I think this'll be the first time I need to use Notepad to organize someone else's thoughts.

- Levity, the reason why I'd like you to organize your thoughts more is because I read backwards, and if you're suspicious of everyone, and turn up dead and town, it kinda doesn't help if you think a lot of people are scummy without giving a reason.

- Dammit Prims, stop having a life.

- JB, can you pay a little more attention to something that isn't the person with the most votes?

- I'll talk to you after we're all dead, Kay and Paper. There's a lot more behind this, but as this is a public forum, I'm probably gonna end up stepping on a lot of toes if I post it here.

[Tables]

I've taken quite ill suddenly over today. Hopefully it'll pass but if I'm inactive for say 24 hours, probably best to sub me out.

[Percivalé]

uh-oh; I hope you feel better, Tables!

dear kevin: I'm sorry that I was almost late to class and had to run before I could make a more detailed analysis on all of the players here. I'm also sorry that I'm on my phone because our internet is out right now and I can't copy/paste on my phone. I'm not even sure this is going to post right.

eclipse, I already posted my reasoning for being erratic and slightly haphazard with my suspicions. If you want more definite answers now, Tables and Naglfar have my attention the most, and I'm quite neutral on you because your extreme tunnel-visioning is worrying me slightly. I don't know what to think about JB, and it's really hard to read Prims (that's just a fact,)

[Percivalé]

ugh, half of my post got cut out.

It's hard to read Prims, but I'm getting a town read from him so far. He tunnel-visioned only a little slightly, but it wasn't so bad. Kay? She's looking better after her latest posts, which I already explained. Bal, too; Kay and Bal look all right, and I actually kind of firmly believe Kevin is town now, which worries me about you even more. I know you've offered input on a few other players thus far, but... is there anyone else you happen to be suspicious of? All I see you is pushing kevin, and it's hard for me to see a lot of anything else. It's a little odd.

Paperblade is on the same boat as Prims: they're both great at lbeing pro-town despite what side they're on, so that's why I'm always wary of them, even if they look pretty town right now. Let's see, anyone else I missed? Probably, but I'll make a list once I have internet access.

[Percivalé]

... Hmm. Put JB at 'slightly suspicious.' So out of the people I looked at, from most scummy to least: Tables, 9aglfar/JB, eclipse, Bal/Kay, Primsy/Paperboss. I don't know--normally my vibes are more organized D1, but I'm just... having a really bad D1. And I know I might have forgotten people? I don't know. This is what I have so far, though. I feel like my read on Nag might be completely off, which is worrying me a little. /: I couldn't tell of Tables was simply looking for something creative to approach, or voting Bal for some... other reason, I don't know, and other things he said didn't sit with me as well, and now he's sick so he can't quite respond to my suspicions on him, which bites.

[Percivalé]

ugh, I'm sorry about the little posts again. It's really hard to do this on my phone.

i was going to add one more things: there are a few things that might make Prims slightly more suspicious than Paperblade, but I'm going to go ahead and explain those later when I have computer access. I hope that clears things up for those who apparently didn't read too well into my more recent posts: it was 3am, I was depressed and mad at someone, and... yeah, trying to play mafia in that condition isn't a good idea and I'm sorry for the confusion. Don't just disregard everything I post though, okay? Normally when I point something out about a player, I'm not exactly suspicious of them--I'm challenging them, or, as they say, testing the waters. This kind of thing won't work if people take my D1 play as "bizz is suspicious of everyone, that isn't helpful." First of all, no, that's not what I was trying to portray, and I'm tired of hearing that."

[Percivalé]

oh... strawman.

... ehhh. I'd say he might be on par with eclipse right now, but I need to look into him more.

Not now, though. I have an exam in half an hour.

[Zkirsche]

I was considering moving my vote elsewhere (i.e. Nags), but now I don't see the point. If you want to make yourself look scummy, fine, but don't expect me to vote elsewhere. I vote for who I think is scummiest, and it's still you. Whether anyone else agrees with me is their own prerogative.

Really it just depends on one's definition of scummy. Like someone said, townies can fight hard to stay alive because they dislike the town's decisions. That doesn't make them necessarily scum.

And tbh I'm only saying the truth. You've been pushing hard on me these past few pages and I'm not the only one who has seen that. And tbh, I'm not that butthurt over it. Otherwise you'd be at the top of my list and I'd be fighting to vote you as much as I did prims. That doesn't mean I can't recognise the scumminess of your push. And I'm not the only one who sees it as scummy or suspicious.

Perhaps you are just frustrated at the town's suspicion of you, but apparently that's scummy, and deserves a vote.

Although I do disagree that it's general stupidity which is causing the stagnation of this forum. People just don't have the time for this game as much anymore, and new players just get discouraged due to the highly competitive nature of it.

[Prims]

What life? All I've been doing is sleeping in.

And now that I've woken up I'm currently not feeling up to parse constant WoTs when they just end in empty unvotes anyway (though I do intend to read through the thread and post something worthwhile instead of skimming it eventually, this post is just saying "I exist" really). I'm happy to see JB has the most votes. Dude hasn't been doing anything original except for pushing the promising wagons and I haven't seen him given any opinions on players that aren't already huge targets. Feeling pretty good about the wagon on him since the other people voting him are fairly town from my perspective.

[Prims]

(as in, I was reading them as town before they voted JB)

[Kaoz]

A little less than 24 hours left, remember that you have to send actions in as well if you have any.

[Percivalé]

Prims's case on JB has merit. I guess I've never commented on it before (I'm really rusty, and it's just glaringly bad in this game) because I haven't actually looked into it. I think it's what started to make me feel better about Prims, because my initial vibes on him were similar to my vibes on Bal.

Since tables won't be here for a bit, I suppose my vote on him is useless. Consider this post a prospective vote for JB; I really just want to actually sit down and read, though, before I take any further actions. I myself have been too jumpy and indecisive. I'm going to go take my exam now and I'll be back to offer more input.

[Percivalé]

Prims's case on JB has merit. I guess I've never commented on it before (I'm really rusty, and it's just glaringly bad in this game) because I haven't actually looked into it. I think it's what started to make me feel better about Prims, because my initial vibes on him were similar to my vibes on Bal.

Since tables won't be here for a bit, I suppose my vote on him is useless. Consider this post a prospective vote for JB; I really just want to actually sit down and read, though, before I take any further actions. I myself have been too jumpy and indecisive. I'm going to go take my exam now and I'll be back to offer more input.

[Percivalé]

god dammit phone

sorry for the double post

[Prims]

I'm going back to not reading Kay as scum after her latest post. The way the wagon on her dissipated as soon as she posted some proper :words: makes me feel it was just the result of gathered animosity toward lurkers in the first place. Honestly though, it's kind of hard to read her due to her sparse contributions, which tends to the the problems with lurkers in general. <_< That said, she doesn't seem like a good D1 lynch to me right now.

I don't think JB looks bad for sheeping alone, but because he's been adding to already formed wagons over shoddy reasons while ignoring the other possible targets. Currently feeling like he's the best D1 lynch target we have.

Strawman is starting to bug me because his original vote didn't have much weight to it and he doesn't have any more solid/relevant opinions now that we're nearing the end of the day. This might just coincide with typical lurker habits, but hearing from him would be nice. I'd like to see the people who aren't voting (Naglfar, Snike) place down a vote, too, since votes are pretty damn important for getting people lynched and it feels like Naglfar and Snike are just sitting in the background without involving themselves with town too much. Obviously, that's not ideal play regardless of aligment.

Also, I'm not good at exact numerical orders like the kind Kevin requested, but I can post a tier list of sorts instead. D1 reads are usually pretty pointless though since they become a lot less relevant after flips exist, but if people want a list of my reads then I don't see the point in denying it.

--Town Townie Obvtown: Prims, Kevin

I'm town because I have access to my role PM. Kevin looks town because of the earlygame pile-up, and he's been pretty contributive. I do believe I already explained why I thought that was unlikely to happen on scum.

--Leaning Town: Paperblade, eclipse

Paperblade doesn't feel like he's working with buddies (which basically makes this a shitty gut read like most D1 town reads are anyway). eclipse looks like she has townie conviction (or townie tunnel vision) even though I don't agree that Kevin is scum.

--Neutral: Kay, Balcerzak, Tables, Naglfar

Not reading any of these guys one way or another - Kay is a slight town lean, Naglfar is a slight scum lean because he's been folding to pressure and also hasn't been much of a go-getter in terms of voting. Tables is unmemorable in the same way Strawman is unmemorable, but I feel Tables' content has been more solid (though iirc he's not actually voting right now, which is :/ )

--Wariness: Levity, Snike, Strawman

Levity kept taking potshots at people while parking her votes on lurkers earlier which struck me as off. She's not as bad now, but I don't feel comfortable moving her into Neutral just yet. Snike is unmemorable and hasn't been voting so naturally I'm going to be wary of him. Strawman I already explained in this post.

--Scummy: JB

See my past few posts, as well as the top of this one.

[Prims]

zzzz

To elaborate on eclipse, I really don't think her tunneling on Kevin looks like it's coming from somebody who expects Kevin to be a viable mislynch for the day. This doesn't rule her out from being scum, but I don't feel that her vote is opportunistic at this point.

[Strawman]

Umm... Strawman, why exactly do you have a vote on me? Your reason was basically "You're suspicious of Bal, you aren't top of my suspicions but YOU'RE SUSPICIOUS OF BAL HOW COULD YOU?" Which, uh, doesn't seem that convincing.

Basically this:

This sounds like you're trying to use an odd explanation to pin down Bal as scum. While a playstyle change can indicate a faction one isn't used to, if Bal was always mafia before then wouldn't that mean he's town (there's probably not a third-party due to the size of this game but who knows) this time? This is only hypothetical--I'm saying that your logic here is odd, and I don't quite find him to be all that scummy at the moment, but he could be outplaying me this time.

Bizz was just way better at explaining it than I ever would be.

Strawman, Tables' critique of me wasn't solely for the rules discussion. Go back to it, and read it over one more time, carefully. It was my post about Kay and Nag that set off the warning bells in his head, and then after that he went to look to the earlier discussions for supporting evidence. Whether or not his suspicions were justified, that is perfectly ordinary behaviour. Find a hunch (based on either logic, gut, or whatever), and then go make sure you can back that up with facts. While a scum would often slightly distort the facts, in this case he was just calling it as it was, and from an outside point of view, even I could see how I had made myself look a little bad.

At the time of his first post it just rubbed me the wrong way was all. His two later posts on the same issue lessened my suspicions about his reasons to vote you, I just hadn't got around really thinking about this game yet. (Plus it doesn't help that I have notoriously bad reading comprehension skills)

##Unvote

It's the same opinion as the others with a vote on her; Where is she, when is she going to post, etc.

And before someone jumps on me for that, that's all there is to it. Call me out for sheeping, whatever, but I guess that sucks for me when I think someone else's logic for voting her works and I decide it's a good idea to follow, right?

I think the reason its suspicious, though, is because you did the same thing with both Kevin and Kay. You voted for them after other people had but then only had basically the same reasoning, and you did this for 2 people, not just one. So it just makes it seem like you aren't really thinking for yourself much and you're just going after people who others have said or scummy, instead of people you actually think are scummy.

And now, scum rankings!: (This might be a little confusing)

Most scummiest:

-JB (hardcore sheeping, not much of his own opinion, not contributing much)

Either very scummy or not at all scummy:

-Kay (I would find her scummy except when I consider a mafia definitely would not want to get lynched and would be much less apathetic towards votes imo)

Seem pretty normally townish:

-Tables

-Kevin (makes himself too much of a target early on so doesn't seem very scummy, makes too big a deal out of a pressure vote though)

-Bizz (scattered thoughts, seems pretty legit, maybe a little too erratic though?)

-Balcerzak (long and informative posts, seems legit)

Pretty much looking like town:

-Prims

Don't really have a read on them yet, will have to go back and read some more:

- Eclipse

-Snike

-Paperblade

-Naglfar

[Paperblade]

It's the same opinion as the others with a vote on her; Where is she, when is she going to post, etc.

And before someone jumps on me for that, that's all there is to it. Call me out for sheeping, whatever, but I guess that sucks for me when I think someone else's logic for voting her works and I decide it's a good idea to follow, right?

The thing is you're in the same boat, JB. Just posting doesn't make you useful, you want to post something useful, insightful, thought provoking. What Kay has made in her few posts has made her look good (if not a little upset). You haven't given an opinion on anyone OTHER than the person you're voting for and those opinions are just "I agree with this wagon"

As a reminder, my vote on Kevin was a random vote (the first actual vote in the game iirc) and Prims was just adding to the pressure. When you just sheep people and go "I agree 100%" that looks really, really bad.

[Zkirsche]

Actually, I voted Kay first.

[Zkirsche]

Also, your opinions on the players atm would be nice.

[Percivalé]

lol prims, I don't really know what more you want from me. I think early D1 was me being spiteful of you and trying to look more important; I can admit this since, yes, I'm competitive and I'm silly and I poke at irrelevant things in hopes that perhaps someone else might gain something from it (or it'll help me deduce things in the future). The Kay vote was much more justified than the Snike vote, which I'll admit, since Kay was actually in the thread at the time and I don't even remember half of the attacks I made now (which is terrible but what can you do), and yeah the Snike vote was stupid and there wasn't really any method behind it. I've explained my erratic behavior numerous times, and additionally it's a natural thing for me because I'm not really fond of concentrating all of my attention onto one person unless I feel pretty confident in them as being scum (since I'm paranoid if I don't at least take a brief look at everyone), but who knows, maybe I just suck! Nahh, I really just don't know how else to explain it after explaining it three times already at least. Not to mention I haven't been in a game this small in a while, which brings up a few issues that have prompted me to change the way I approach cases, and yeah it's unfamiliar to me so I'm probably going to do really terrible things in an attempt to adjust. I've actually felt myself growing a bit more comfortable with my reads as the day has progressed.

I just hope at least my posts are being taken in consideration, since people have apparently been missing a lot of things I've said, and I don't know if I'm just being too vague or whatever but honestly it worries me and also makes it hard to play sometimes when my efforts end up being too useless or difficult to understand. I guess I haven't improved in that front.

uh, anyhow, I'm still on my phone but I promise to take a better look in around a couple of hours or so since I'm going to be busy with packing up and moving out of my dorm for winter break. I won't leave my vote sitting on Tables, though-- (hehe, sitting on tables)

##Unvote: Tables since my vote on him right now is useless and a waste since he won't be here for a while

##Vote: JB since I agree with how he hasn't been really memorable (although I need to delve further once I return)

[Prims]

Last 24 hours of the day and everyone suddenly stops posting? That's not very cool.

I'd like to hear from Naglfar, Snike and Tables on where they'd probably like to place their votes. Balcerzak too, since I don't think he has voted since the unvote.

[Snike]

I'm still not very interested in this game, but if I were to lynch, it would probably have to be JB who I would hang. He's posting one-liners infrequently, and even those are generally non-informative. =/

[Percivalé]

Wow, finally home. That ended up being a huge block of text /:

Re-reading now, I suppose.

[Percivalé]

I still don't like Kevin for his reaction to the early votes, but I guess? I can let it slide a bit now.

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

I know you're somewhere.

... lol

this is like the worst post ever

And is he even paying attention to the suspicion aimed at him?

Wow, though, I guessed I didn't even notice his posts before.

I'm still of a firm belief that Kevin is town; I'm just not clear on why JB insists on Kevin because he doesn't really give out his opinion on it. I guess this has already been discussed, but... I'm confused.