Final Fantasy Mafia- GAME OVER, Town Wins

[Paperblade]

How the FUCK is my defense of Darros a waffle, Elieson? At no point in the entire game have I supported a Darros lynch. Do you actually know what waffling is?

Your entire case against me is "omg he's tunneling on me and his reasoning is unoriginal" (which I'm pretty sure wasn't even true).

I could see Prims being scumbuddies with Elieson. I think it's very unlikely, but Prims has fakeclaimed Mason as scum before, and suggested doing so in NPoT, and this isn't that far off from that. However, at the same time, I don't think there is a reason to push it right now since I would expect the SK to kill one.

Being paranoid is not a scumtell, and after the Mancer lynch in Folgore or any game with town!Manix you're stupid for suggesting that it is.

[Elieson]

Shin remind me why you're voting fr Prims again.

Is this potential gambit of his, to squeeze town cred out of the floorboards, the scummiest thing you have seen all game?

If it is, please reexamine things. You simply must have ideas other then "scum!Prims and Elie is IDFK alignment".

For clarity, that's a prime reason why I'm voting for you.

Also also, ISO'ing Eclipse didn't give me any ideas on scummy partnerships, except distancing with half of the game, so if anyone else can find gold were I could not, please do.

[Elieson]

It's possible he's scum, but I think it's much much more likely that he's just town that doesn't know what to do and doesn't want to make natural posts because people are already jumping on him for it.

Paperblade, this is what I identify as waffling. Unless I really am clueless on the definition of waffling. When reading your posts, this stuck out to me more than anything else.

[Balcerzak]

[12:31:15 PM] scorrikitty: scorri> i'm locked out of posting until SF sends the confirmation email that i successfully changed email adressess

To add to this, automatic validation is broken at the moment, has been since the server upgrade I believe, so she's basically waiting for Tang or Vincent to do it manually at this point. I've directed her to make a ticket, to speed the process, but...

[Paperblade]

Elieson, I said it was possible he's scum as a concession to the fact that he is not cleared by role. I think the chance that he is scum is very small, something like 5-10%.

[scorri]

WHOOOOOOOOOOO! I can post again. I'll try and get thoughts up soon.

[Shin]

Okie dokie! My case against Prims! In addition to it making more sense than yours;

• Rather difficult to believe claim. The only way I can see it is if you're masons, but a lot of Prims' language implies that it's a one way thing.
• The PM appeared around Night 1... that's a funny time to get it. Cop? But again what you say suggests otherwise.
• Insistence on honesty being the reason we should believe him.
• Main scumread on me is that I missed a few things reading, after 2 days hard work :P.
• Says he'd prefer a Mancer lynch, which was very possible but decides to go to push the Lucina lynch instead.

It's entirely possible that I'm wrong, but there is significant evidence that hints that something's up. I can see a little waffle in day 1, but not quite the vast family size order you delivered to our doors.

[WREN]

I must point out that Prims scum saying Town Eli is confirmed town would reap nothing but benefits for him.

Prims gets lynched? Eli is now a suspect. Eli lynched? Prims gets town cred. It's a perfect scumprotunity!

Not only this but the awkward placement of his Eli is now town statement, and lack of claim to back it up bothers me. Not only does the fact that he GOT this info already make him a prime mafia target, but we also have a vest giver claim, (Which Prims seems to believe) so the least he could do is back it up with a character claim.

But no he just goes the I am right because I am right route.

##VOTE:PRIMS

(Also can someone answer my dumb meta based Shinori question)

[scorri]

The emotion from Shinori is a null tell. Some games it happens, others it doesn't.

As for Prims though, I'm assuming I know the role that Elie has if Prims got a message that he believes confirms Elie as town because Prims wouldn't claim cop like this which means it's Elie that caused Prims to know this (I think). Now, that being said, lynching Prims for this would be stupid. Don't base your entire vote off of one thing that doesn't really give us an indication of alignment. There are multiple scenarios, none of which is more likely than any other. If you find Prims scummy for other reasons, fine. But give us those reasons. Don't just base your case off of one thing that has nothing to do with alignment.

[Elieson]

Okie dokie! My case against Prims! In addition to it making more sense than yours;

1. Rather difficult to believe claim. The only way I can see it is if you're
   masons, but a lot of Prims' language implies that it's a one way thing.
2. The PM appeared around Night 1... that's a funny time to get it. Cop? But
   again what you say suggests otherwise.
3. Insistence on honesty being the reason we should believe him.
4. Main scumread on me is that I missed a few things reading, after 2 days hard
   work :P
5. Says he'd prefer a Mancer lynch, which was very possible but decides to go
   to puts the Lucina lynch instead.

It's entirely possible that I'm wrong, but there is significant evidence that hints that something's up. I can see a little waffle in day 1, but not quite the vast family size order you delivered to our doors.

WRT 1: Rolespec is clouding your mind. What has he actually done? I already addressed this in my last post.

WRT 2: Umm, what? With Eclipse dying somehow during the day, why are you going and assuming that any knowledge that anyone has is with direct assumption that any knowledge acquired is relegated to a Night action?

WRT 3: Also there's the insistence that we should believe Shinori's Voyeur claim (based on Honesty), and Mancer's Vestizer claim (based on honesty for the time being). Are you suspecting these guys too? And what about Lucina, of whom you indeed voted for, who had a claim of Rogue. Honesty there. You're using a flawed approach at this.

WRT 4: Not a real reason.

WRT 5:

Doofina (10): Shinori, Elieson, Helios, j00, Shin, WREN,

Mancer, Prims, BBM, eclipse

Mancer (4): Snike,

scorri, Ammy, CT075

These were the votals of D1. Should Prims have shifted votes, it'd be 9 v 5, and still take quite a bit of legwork to shift votes around and get a Mancer Lynch. if exactly 1/2 of the game was able to agree on a Lucina lynch, then her case must have been pretty much sold on everyone (regardless of which alignment was stronger on her case. So, once again, how is him wanting Mancer lynched but instead going for Lucina awful and scummilicious?

Shin, please try harder.

[Elieson]

Also to Paper, then I perhaps misinterpreted the message behind your mid-D1 posts. I'll Reread then, and see if I get a change of opinion on the situation.

[WREN]

The emotion from Shinori is a null tell. Some games it happens, others it doesn't.

As for Prims though, I'm assuming I know the role that Elie has if Prims got a message that he believes confirms Elie as town because Prims wouldn't claim cop like this which means it's Elie that caused Prims to know this (I think). Now, that being said, lynching Prims for this would be stupid. Don't base your entire vote off of one thing that doesn't really give us an indication of alignment. There are multiple scenarios, none of which is more likely than any other. If you find Prims scummy for other reasons, fine. But give us those reasons. Don't just base your case off of one thing that has nothing to do with alignment.

Well I have never even heard of a role like that, so I didn't even think about it.

Nonetheless Eli shoulda mentioned it then. Which in turn doesn't make sense for someone with said role to not do. I mean, even if he had additional powers he coulda just been all "Sup sup, my role made Prims alerted to my townieness" but no, no mention at all.

Also I said why this scenario was more likely. Cause of the awkward placement of the Elitownie claim (A townie with intent on revealing such info likely wouldn't wait til the guy is voted for), and the lack of anything else to back it up. Not even mentioning that he unaware of why he got it (If Eli did it) or any mention of his actual role (Since at that point he would already be a target and would have a probable vester to back him up)

[Prims]

I don't really have an excuse for not outing in my first post D2, I just didn't think to do so until I realized Elie was a probable lynch...

Wren has an entire D1 and half a D2 to go on but when he finally posts a vote it's based on events that just happened which is pretty bad (although Levity was town so I don't think he's scum). Seriously though dude what are your opinions on the rest of the game?

[Shin]

Doofina (9): Shinori, Elieson, Helios, j00, Shin, WREN, Mancer, Prims, BBM

Mancer (5): Snike, Paperblade, scorri, Ammy, CT075

BBM (2): eclipse, Xinnidy

Prims (2): Doofina, Gallade

Frog (1): SB

scorri (1): Frog

Not Voting (0): nope

Lie harder, Eli :P. When Prims voted it was 7 vs 5. Not quite the 9 vs 5. He would have made it 7 vs 6. A little bit more winnable, no?

#1 - Rolespec is part of it, but as Wren said, the advantages for Town!Prims are tiny. If it were true, it'd line you and Eli up as the next two night kills.

#2 - Eclipse died during the day, the rest of your sentence doesn't make sense. Prims said it at the beginning of day 2, when you were under no threat. Either he found out at night or something's up.

#3 - I didn't believe Lucina's claim, I don't see why I should make a special exception for Prims. I haven't said that I'm particularly convinced of Shinori's or Mancer's claims.

#4 - "Sorry Paper, I misread your posts" - I don't see why it doesn't work for me!

#5 - See above.

[Prims]

Votals:

Shinori (4): Paperblade, scorri, j00, Frog

Shin (4): Snike, Xinnidy, Prims, Elieson

Prims (3): Mancer, Shin, WREN

scorri (1): Shinori

Not Voting (3): CT075, Ammy, Gallade

Man, fuck this, Elie and I are masons (Ritz and Marche). I didn't want Paper and such to coast the entire day voting on a lynch that wasn't going to happen but I wanted there to be skepticism too to decrease the odds of either of us dying to SK. Apparently that was a bad idea! If you look through ED1 there are some breadcrumbs; Elie mentioned "advanced tactics" and I was pretty obvious about my character, and yeah the whole "Elie is a town bro" thing was a crumb.

[Shin]

Fun fact: Shin's only played FFI and ragequit one of the advanced games at the tutorial.

##Unvote

Imma need some thinking time.

[Prims]

Decided on Shin probably being paranoid town. I don't see him making his recent push against Elie and I as scum. This is up for reconsideration but as is I don't like either one of the main wagons.

##Unvote

My reads are currently at a deadwall, which makes me think scum are in the people I've been paying less attention to. Lots of people seem to find Paperblade just "off" and I think his actual scumhunting has been pretty meager (his only case starting today was on conf. town, Shinori switch seems like he had to come up with something on the spot because he was prepared to coast on an Elie vote all day) so I don't mind pushing him at this point. Also, the way he ended the day with a vote on the jan target for a presumably role-related reason Bugs Me even though we're not supposed to rolespec etc.

##Vote: j00

- Has been suspicious of Cam all game because he barely does anything, but drags her feet on ever actually pressing him beyond "man Cam sure is a thing" and doesn't try to vote him or question him or whatever. This looks like filler content rather than an actual opinion.

- Shinori vote looks like an attempt to take advantage of how Shinori opened the day without considering the D1 flip. j00's Shinori vote is almost entirely based on Shinori's D2 claim and there are no thoughts from D1 in her post aside from a paragraph about Cam with no conclusion. If she ever did get around to re-reading eclipse's D1 and whatnot she should post her results.

- Most of D1 was spent with a votepark on Helios that was never pushed too strongly, which is even more self-explanatory after that modkill. It baffles me why j00 would leave her vote there instead of trying to press Cam further as town if she really though Cam was questionable.

Still don't really like Ammy or Kay that much but I feel either of them could be town which frustrates me. Snike feels unmemorable to me even though he has lots of posts. I can't find anything wrong with his content either but I just think he might be Scum for some reason.

I would also appreciate a new post from Xinnidy.

[Paperblade]

The "Paperblade is scummy for pushing Elieson" thing doesn't really make sense since I had no way of knowing he was mason, so I'm not sure how that is a strike against me.

Anyway I'm gonna reread again

[Xinnidy]

Happy Easter~

I'm surprised I got enough sleep today, looks like a promising night, even the void looks beautiful!

I just hope my thought process doesn't get all over the place, skimming new content gogogo

Cam, post the following:

"I am aligned with the town."

Worst wincon mispelling ever

Mason claim huh, fair enough.

Shinori's emotional play and claim don't come as very townie-looking. But I'll exercise caution while I still think I have a clue of what's going on.

Shin's gambit reads scummy, but the way he's pushed it last page can look like just being paranoid. Considering the situation and timing, I'll give him a benefit of doubt. Also, if you think there's a reasonable chance that the person is a cop, don't mention it, shut up and rethink your case instead.

You'd think people would drop the suspicion on Prims if Elieson didn't disclaim the couple role crumbs when they were pointed. It looks especially bad when people rehash other people's points, with a complete ignorance if Elie's role could make a difference, which is partly rectified here but comes with an argument that could be taken as rolefishing -- the only optimal reason to catch scum there is to expect Elieson to disprove Prim's claim, which didn't happen-- expecting Elieson to confirm a role which was only crumbed at, and would do him probably more harm to out pubicly isn't a very strong idea. Looks the scummiest to me at face value.

I have no idea who the sub is and how they play but Ammy if you're going to question the general playstyle less and work on getting reads I'd be pretty grateful, I don't remember much memorable from you.

The "Paperblade is scummy for pushing Elieson" thing doesn't really make sense since I had no way of knowing he was mason, so I'm not sure how that is a strike against me.

Anyway I'm gonna reread again

How is the "I had no way of knowing he was mason" defence even meaningful if Shinori was the only one that made this argument when suspecting you and he had no way to know that Elieson was confirmed mason at the time.

Unless you're misrepping Prims fast.

I'll keep this in mind.

##Unvote

##Vote:Wren

Now I shall go and see if I can put more pieces together, bye world.

[Paperblade]

It's difficult for me to scumhunt atm because everyone I thought was scummy turned out to be town, but let me look at things.

Most people's D1 was spam or discussing Lucina/BBM/Mancer/Darros, so hooray.

Wren apparently has no reads other than paranoid-rolespec that Prims is scum, as well as coming in to just jump on the Lucina wagon after subbing in. I don't really like this even though Bizz had good content.

I don't like how Xinnidy jumped onto the Shin wagon. In fact, I don't like the Shin wagon at all. Nothing he's done really stood out to me as scummy, since I kind of agree with his points: Prims/Elie COULD be scum, I don't think we should lynch them and I don't think Prims should have had to out the nature of why Elieson was confirmed town. This wagon feels super opportunistic.

I don't like how Cam went "it's a reaction test!" and then when scorri went "Dude that was stupid and scummy" he backtracks the fuck out of it, especially since this is like 70% of everything he's done all game

Snike has been forgettable and did similar stuff to eclipse. Also his entire D2 has been getting on people's cases for not reading and correcting them

I still think Shinori's flipflopping on scorri is scummy, and I'm still annoyed at him. You've already proven yourself willing to throw fake-tantrums to emotionally manipulate people (ICBINSFMM3), and I vig'd you for it in RGBY, so yeah.

Kay please exist

[Paperblade]

>misrepping Prims

his [Paperblade's] only case starting today was on conf. town

>misrepping Prims

yeah okay

[scorri]

##Unvote

##Vote:Xinnidy

Comes in, says Shinori doesn't look very town but won't put a vote there cause being cautious, Shin seems scummy but is probably paranoid town so will let that be for now, talks briefly about mason claim, pokes at Ammy for being forgettable, pokes at Paper... and then votes Wren? Yeah... I'm ok with this lynch.

[MancerNecro]

##Unvote: Prims

##Vote: Shin

##FoS: WREN

Those were very quick jumps onto Prims, guys. Based off of the same reasoning as mine. Why did you choose not to point out the awkwardness in that claim until after I laid a vote on Prims and questioned him for it?

I buy Prims claim. It would be stupid for scum to claim Mason when they have like 1 member down already. That would be jeopardising the other 2 out of the 3 of their remaining members. Thus, their claim is believable.

[Paperblade]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Xinnidy

[MancerNecro]

@Bluedoom and Manix: Any unbolded syntaxes are not actual votes.

Assuming scorri's claim is correct, with one lynch, one Daykill, one Modkill and two Nightkills, the setup should be 11/3/1 (BBM is town), 12/2/1 (BBM is scum) or 12/3 (BBM is ITP) right now.

Given the odds of random Jankills, I think that BBM was most likely town, but the way he has been acting in D1 leans him slightly towards scum/anti-town too.

So, we are looking for another like 3-4 anti-town members right now.