Choose Your Own Character Anonymafia: D3 - Ends 6/15 at 0000 GMT-6

[Estelle]

Suzaku, you stated several times that you will push what you perceive as scummy behaviour, regardless of what others think about it. Then why do you continue to say that Leknaat's initial Ovan vote was bad?

[Kamina]

Like I said earlier, I misinterpretted the vote.

My reasoning at the time though was that I could see why he would think Ovan was scummy, but didn't agree with it myself due to how I read the thing. I pretty much thought it was due to him outing gutreads and not explaining them, which I see as a null tell.

[Sham]

Ovan- Why R2D2 over Tibarn or Madame Flurrie? And why do you think that Suzaku and Leknaat have to be oppositely aligned? I don't think that they're scumbuddies, but them both being town is a possibility, and I don't see a reason you offer for why they're oppositely aligned other than that you think they're both scummy, which is not really an interaction between them. Also, considering that IIRC both Joey and Szeth attacked you in addition to Suzaku (and Szeth also attacked me), saying that they're only talking about Suzaku is kind of a misrep. Additionally, while I don't really like some of what Leknaat said about you, I dislike how you're saying that Leknaat's way of pressuring you is an easy way of seeming active and helpful. It can be, maybe, but is it in this case? No, Leknaat has been active even disregarding anything he's said about you.

My opinion of you was improving, but I dislike your most recent posts so back to this it is, since I don't want to put Suzaku at L-1 yet. ##Vote: Ovan

I was talking specifically about this entire game. I meant specifically at that time it seemed like an easy way to look active and be productive at that time when not much was happening.

R2D2 because R2D2 did come back and post after their first post and made another one but didn't do much besides that. Which stands out to me more than just people making only one post.

[Kamina]

Wait, didn't R2's post come after your vote?

[Marisa Kirisame]

I was talking specifically about this entire game. I meant specifically at that time it seemed like an easy way to look active and be productive at that time when not much was happening.

I... I don't follow. Logic cannot parse. You're saying I am scummy because... I was productive when everyone else was twiddling thumbs? Isn't that pretty much... "too townie to be town"?

[Marisa Kirisame]

All right Ovan, ball's in your park: If my actions at the time were scummy, in what way do you propose a Townie should have acted at that time period? Consider the answer carefully.

Speaking of the lieutenant, now that he has had time to gather his thoughts, I feel compelled to further my pursuit of him.

I don't see how saying "I agree" to most of these things would have helped advance the game, do you?

I don't recall saying you had to agree with either of their posts, but at the time you complained RVS was there and nothing was happening. You then vote me for posting style even though there was Ovan talking about SS and R2D2 talking about SS, which seemed significant to me. Enough to warrant a vote in any case and a further exploration. I don't think anyone's really touched on R2D2's vote for Silent there, and I'd like to see some clarification from the bot.

Why would scum bother being active during the RVS phase and pursuing weak votes (yes, even I know my reasoning isn't the strongest) that others could easily percieve as being scummy?

This is a WIFOM argument. Scum would do so exactly because scum would not do so. On the other hand, scum would do so because it makes them look active and helpful (see what I did there Ovan?), but I get your point and am willing to abandon my argument that it was scummy at the time to ignore the happenings around you. You did not find them of interest; Fair enough.

I cannot quite grasp your argument on why I am scummy but as you have since let that go, I am willing to look past that as well. My interest in you is quickly waning now.

@Szeth: I see a lot of words in your post and you have comments about a number of people, yet it is not at all clear to my what makes Suzaku a better target of your vote than any of the others. What's in Suzaku that's in neither Silent nor Ovan, who you also mentioned?

##Unvote

##Vote: R2D2

A break from the main event for a moment, as I find it suspicious that at least three of our number have not been giving their input much. Where Madam Flurrie has been absent for over 24-hours with no content to her name, R2D2 has content, but I would like him to explain how Silent's meta-hunting is scummy.

[Rain Nijika]

Beepbleepboopblop

I am sorry. It has been a rather hectic few days for me and I sadly have not had an abundance of time with which to devote to mafia. Now, my vote on SS was serious. At that point in time, to me at least, he seemed like he was being serious with his guesses like he planned to use them which, again at the time, seemed the scummiest thing to me. The reasons that I find it scummy were that using meta in an anon game off prelim guesses like that is an easy way to later backtrack and be like "Oh, I was using the wrong meta for the person, as such I should not be held responsible for finding them scummy." In addition, something seemed off about his reaction to Ovan's comment and as such I did not feel compelled to change my vote until my most recent rereading of the thread.

However, after having read through things, I have become more suspicious of Joey. His vote on Suzaku felt like it was poorly backed up. While I didn't agree with Suzaku, using bullets or numbers or such things is in fact a way to make your posts seem like they have more content than they actually do, which is something that scum will usually try to do. Also his comments on Ovan were largely misplaced since Ovan said that he had a gut feeling about SS not that he actually thought he was scum and then he mentions Ovan's vote on Leknaat as being "ehhhh" but not actually saying why it was scummy beyond it was right after Leknaat voted Ovan.

##Unvote

##Vote:Joey

bleepbloopblorp

[Sham]

That's not what I even said. You weren't being too town. You were pushing something that I shouldn't have had. That's why you're scummy. You were wanting something from me that I didn't have. I don't see how you saying I was scummy for not having a 'strong stance' on someone is town at all.

[Sham]

I don't think a townie should push for another person thoughts to be STRONG at that point in time in the game. Who's gonna have a strong stance and a strong though process at that point in time in the game?

A strong stance would suggest that you heavily think a player is town or scum. Heavily would suggest that there were reactions and reasons strong enough or enough OF that you had reason to believe that. Tell me, how is pushing someone for something they most likely don't have town?

[Olivier]

Sasuka claims Neighbor okay.

##Unvote

Also apologies for being awol so long.

Anyways, Sasuka is popping up on my scum radar because I don't really like attempting to meta. Yeah sure, guessing is fine. But you have such a high potential to screw town over if you're wrong.

If there's virtually nothing to go off of, I'll go for the scummiest thing I can find. That's what I did, do you have a problem with it?

mhm. This very much strikes me as grasping for a vote out of total desperation, which I'm not a fan of.

No flavor hunting.

##Unvote

##Vote: Leknaat

Kind of serious. It's about the most suspicious thing that's happened so far, in my opinion.

Pretty much nothing. I hoped I could get some sort of reaction out of him at get the ball rolling, since we might end up stuck in RVS for a long time on account of there only being 9 players.

Kinda goes against your "if there's nothing to go off of, I'll go for the scummiest thing I can find". So you put the vote down, and then claim it to be not totally serious, and ultimately worth nothing. Feels a lot like grasping darling.

Leknaat's genuinely giving me bad vibes now, with the observation/hypothesis/conjecture thing looking like he's contributing a lot when he's really not. It kind of reminds me of something in an offsite game too. The guy he reminds me of was scum.

There's nothing wrong with how he chose to present his information. I think you're overreacting about something as minor as post format. Which, again, I consider grasping. Either that or you're getting paranoid really easily.

Also, unrelated to Sasuka, requesting that lovely and charming Tibarn to get in here.

Would vote for Suzaku but I think that would put him at L-1 if I've been keeping track of the votes right. If after Elie posts vote counts, and Sazuku wouldn't be at L-1 after my vote, I'll vote for him.

Until then:

##Vote: Tibarn

Vote prod for the inactive guy because he should be in here.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I don't think a townie should push for another person thoughts to be STRONG at that point in time in the game. Who's gonna have a strong stance and a strong though process at that point in time in the game?

A strong stance would suggest that you heavily think a player is town or scum. Heavily would suggest that there were reactions and reasons strong enough or enough OF that you had reason to believe that. Tell me, how is pushing someone for something they most likely don't have town?

Now you begin to become obnoxious. Please read my post here.

I'll quote what's important.

I believe "you're wishy-washy" is an adequate reason to vote someone and would like Ovan to take a solid stance to prove there is substance to him other than vibes and guts, which aren't conducive to scumhunting.

solid stance

You have begun cavorting in the realms of fantasy now, dodging the question I asked and presenting an argument you made up and passing it off as my own. You are tunnel visioning on me with severe confirmation bias borne from OMGUS because I had the gall to vote you in the early game. Since, you have only -said- you'd look at content and have wasted my time by never providing.

A strong stance would suggest that you heavily think a player is town or scum.

A solid stance means a stance that is not wishy-washy where someone is both scummy enough to mention but not scummy enough to pursue in favour of a jokevote. This is not a "strong" stance where you determine someone's alignment, it's that mentioning someone is worth your attention but then not really because you don't believe in your own reasons is wishy-washy indecisive behaviour. Taking a solid stance is when you decide whether someone is or is not scummy.

Tell me, if it is NOT Townie to "awkwardly pressure" you at that juncture, what IS Townie to do? You had at that time offered only an RVS vote and seem to have been content just cavorting around and remaining in RVS. What IS townie behaviour? Should I have left a jokevote instead? Just not post at all and see what happens? Had I acted exactly as you had, mentioning something shortly and then jokevoting someone, would I have been doing the Town thing?

##Unvote

##Vote: Ovan

R2D2 is no interest now. I refuse to believe a Townie could be so persistent in his refusal to update his case with relevant content and remain stuck on his self-made reasoning. You have talked only about me, yet declare others should talk about more than just Suzaku. This hypocrisy is astounding.

Please flip.

[Cú Chulainn]

Edit: Dammit, a bunch of people ninja'd me. I'll respond again in an hour or two; gonna get some dinner.

Rereading the thread? It took you multiple reads to scumread me? (I'm probably looking way too much into this but bleh)

I work during the day, so I log on in the evening. There's usually 1-2 new pages of content, so it takes awhile to reread what's happened.

A lot of this is just massive generalizing. How am I supposed to defend myself if you're hurling accusations at me without giving reasoning?

I didn't think it was that general. I didn't like your reaction to SS's meta list, but this was just a gutvibe – not really something to base a vote on. I thought your reaction to Leknaat's RVS vote on Ovan was strange. You did claim it was just a pressure test, but the vote was obviously an RVS vote, so I don't know why Leknaat would have been intimidated/pressured by that. From how I saw that series of posts, it looked like you were trying to cast doubt on him, and then back away by claiming it was just a test.

I didn't agree with Leknaat's scumread. How is that misrepping him?

This is what Leknaat said, in a nutshell: “Ovan is being wishy-washy. He's vacillating.” And Ovan was – he had a gutread on Silent Swordsman, but then went “lol nevermind” and threw an RVS on R2D2. Like a couple people have said before me, this is scummy. It could be a setup for a town!SS mislynch later on, i.e. “Well, I thought SS was scum from D1.” You discounted Leknaat's point, and have consistently said the “style” of Leknaat's posts were pinging you. Silent Swordsman summed it up in his last post. Could you elaborate on this?

Suzaku, the thing is, you might have disagreed with Leknaat's assessment of Ovan, but you didn't attack Leknaat for that. You attacked him for the manner in which he presented his points, because you felt it was padding his content. When I asked you about your feelings about the content itself, you said it was neutral. What you attacked him for, padding his content, wasn't really true, because there was content there. And as for the "style" of his posts, how is that different from RPing?

He jumped onto my wagon pretty quickly when it was building momentum, and a lot of the statements he made about me were very generalized. He says I misrepped the post, when really I didn't. I didn't think the vote was particularly valid at the time, or scummy.

I was going to vote before Szeth, but he ninja'd me by about a half hour. It takes me awhile to write up posts (us Brooklyn guys aren't the sharpest pencils in the box). Also, at this point, pretty much every active player – including Ovan – thinks you misrepped Leknaat, so I'd say the majority rules on this. Also, that's sure an interesting vote. Could you expound on it little more?

In terms of my other reads, Leknaat's verboseness threw me off in the beginning; I thought he sounded strange and unnatural. As the day's gone on, I get the sense it's not post-passing, but just the way he forms his thoughts. It reminds me of a Snike or Baldrick-type player. I wouldn't chalk it up to alignment, and I don't have a bad read on him at this point.

My biggest scumread, other than Suzaku, has been Ovan. I brought it up in my last post; since then, I thought he vacillated like a boss here. I can elaborate more tonight; gonna get some dinner soon.

I don't like the (one) post I've seen from Tibarn. He asked Suzaku a question about meta, and then answered it himself in one circular train of thought. I thought he was showing up, making a (poor) show of effort, and stamping his town card. I thought this was scummy, but it was early into phase and he hasn't posted since, so I'd like to see more out of him first. Would rather not out my town reads, so I'll stop there.

[Estelle]

Take this lightly because lolassociativereadswithoutaflip, but I don't like the Suzaku/Ovan interactions. Suzaku began with a semi-defence of Ovan by saying he didn't really see a problem with what Ovan was doing. Then, recently, he sort of agreed that Ovan was scummy, but didn't actually make any attempt to push an Ovan lynch forward in any way. Similarly, Ovan agrees Suzaku is scummy, but makes no real attempt to push him over Leknaat or anybody else. It reads like scumbuddies distancing themselves from each other but not really wanting to further the other's lynch.

I don't really understand the Joey wagon.

[Refakitty³]

Rereading the thread? It took you multiple reads to scumread me? (I'm probably looking way too much into this but bleh)

Why do you consider this to be significant?

A lot of this is just massive generalizing. How am I supposed to defend myself if you're hurling accusations at me without giving reasoning?

This seems like an egregious simplification/handwaving to me, and also, uh, this:

Just because someone can't defend them against a point doesn't make it any more valid. In some cases (albeit, not this one) it's a pretty sure tell of their alignment.

Also, Ovan misunderstanding and/or misrepping Leknaat that badly is looking worse and worse

I don't really understand the Joey wagon.

What's your opinion of Joey, then?

[Sham]

Now you begin to become obnoxious. Please read my post here.

I'll quote what's important.

solid stance

You have begun cavorting in the realms of fantasy now, dodging the question I asked and presenting an argument you made up and passing it off as my own. You are tunnel visioning on me with severe confirmation bias borne from OMGUS because I had the gall to vote you in the early game. Since, you have only -said- you'd look at content and have wasted my time by never providing.

A strong stance would suggest that you heavily think a player is town or scum.

A solid stance means a stance that is not wishy-washy where someone is both scummy enough to mention but not scummy enough to pursue in favour of a jokevote. This is not a "strong" stance where you determine someone's alignment, it's that mentioning someone is worth your attention but then not really because you don't believe in your own reasons is wishy-washy indecisive behaviour. Taking a solid stance is when you decide whether someone is or is not scummy.

Tell me, if it is NOT Townie to "awkwardly pressure" you at that juncture, what IS Townie to do? You had at that time offered only an RVS vote and seem to have been content just cavorting around and remaining in RVS. What IS townie behaviour? Should I have left a jokevote instead? Just not post at all and see what happens? Had I acted exactly as you had, mentioning something shortly and then jokevoting someone, would I have been doing the Town thing?

##Unvote

##Vote: Ovan

R2D2 is no interest now. I refuse to believe a Townie could be so persistent in his refusal to update his case with relevant content and remain stuck on his self-made reasoning. You have talked only about me, yet declare others should talk about more than just Suzaku. This hypocrisy is astounding.

Please flip.

WRT the bold. You obviously don't know me.

I'm terrible at this game.

Also with regards to the what should a townie do at so and so state in the game. Everyone plays differently so whatever.

Whatevs. I don't know what to say. I'm more or less fed up with various things and IRL issues aren't helping since I've got my sisters under house arrest leaving the house.

A sub would be great Elie. Course I'm not sure if that matters since I'll probably just be lynched anyway.

[Sham]

I can keep playing though if we don't want to pull in a sub or if people plan on just lynching me. I just can't guarantee my play getting any better. Obivously I'll try, cause no one wants to sub into a dead situation.

##Unvote:

[Estelle]

The only thing I see wrong with Joey's posts is the bit about calling Ovan out for voting Leknaat right after Leknaat voted him. I don't think that particular bit from Ovan can be held as an indicator of alignment. Other than that, however, I pretty much agree with what he's said about Suzaku, and his bit on Tibarn was interesting. Him voting Suzaku as the wagon on him was gaining momentum means nothing without Suzaku's flip, and even with it, it's a nulltell. If Suzaku is town, it could be opportunistic mafia, or you could think that mafia would want to stay away from a townie wagon that's gaining momentum by itself. If Suzaku is scum, it could be town voting for someone they found scummy or scum deciding that Suzaku was beyond saving and bussing him. But it was pretty early in the phase, so that last part seems unlikely.

I dislike Ovan's last defence. He tries to use self-meta in an anon game, and then just handwaves Leknaat's case with "everyone plays differently". Also not sure why he unvoted because I don't see any indication from him that his scumread on Leknaat has dimnished.

[Refakitty³]

WRT the bold. You obviously don't know me.

I'm terrible at this game.

Also with regards to the what should a townie do at so and so state in the game. Everyone plays differently so whatever.

Whatevs. I don't know what to say. I'm more or less fed up with various things and IRL issues aren't helping since I've got my sisters under house arrest leaving the house.

A sub would be great Elie. Course I'm not sure if that matters since I'll probably just be lynched anyway.

Um. Yeah. It's an anonymous game. I mean, I think right now it's fairly easy to guess that you're Shinori, but only because of that post.

Also, "I'm terrible at this game and everybody's different so my scumtells aren't really scumtells" is kind of a bad defense.

[Cú Chulainn]

I cannot quite grasp your argument on why I am scummy but as you have since let that go, I am willing to look past that as well. My interest in you is quickly waning now.

Leknaat, I thought it was kinda strange how quickly you backed off Suzaku here. It seemed like you dropped your case on him because he dropped his case on you. This came off as opportunistic to me, like scum reacting to people who are either helping or hurting their game (I don't think townies are usually as concerned about individual self-preservation). Can you elaborate a bit more on why you lost interest in him?

While I didn't agree with Suzaku, using bullets or numbers or such things is in fact a way to make your posts seem like they have more content than they actually do, which is something that scum will usually try to do. Also his comments on Ovan were largely misplaced since Ovan said that he had a gut feeling about SS not that he actually thought he was scum and then he mentions Ovan's vote on Leknaat as being "ehhhh" but not actually saying why it was scummy beyond it was right after Leknaat voted Ovan.

Leknaat didn't do this though; you're misrepping Leknaat in the same way Suzaku misrepped him. He didn't use numbers or bullets. He was clearly roleplaying, and he's since stopped the RPing.

In terms of Ovan, I mentioned this in my last post, but I'll reiterate. I didn't like the “gutread on SS, vote on R2D2” because it seemed like it could set up a town!SS mislynch down the line. I.e. “Well, I thought SS was scum all along.” I thought the "Ehhh" was self-explanatory, but I'll elaborate. I read his vote on Leknaat as an OMGUS; I don't think voting for someone because they are "awkwardly pressuring" you is valid town!reasoning. It seemed more like he was attacking a wagon-pusher, which is scummy, imo. And then I didn't like the extra clarification at the end, when he literally said “This is not an OMGUS.” It just felt like a contrived vote.

So...Ovan completely cracked under Leknaat's pressure. ._. If you can, Ovan, please elaborate. Why did you drop your case on Leknaat? (Btw, if you're genuinely upset, I'm sorry. I hope things get better irl.)

[eclipse]

Since Elieson isn't anywhere around, and I'm bored, have some votals.

Leknaat (0):

Ovan (3): Tibarn, Silent Swordsman Lv?, Leknaat (L-2)

Silent Swordsman Lv? (0):

R2D2 (0):

Joey Wheeler (2): Suzaku Kururugi, R2D2 (L-3)

Suzaku Kururugi (2): Szeth, Joey (L-3)

Szeth (0):

Tibarn. (1): Madam Flurrie (L-4)

Madam Flurrie (0):

No vote: Ovan

Approximately 25? Hours Remain in Day 1 (my brain refuses to math righ tnow). Hammer is 5 votes. If I screwed up, lemme know.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Can you elaborate a bit more on why you lost interest in him?

My problem with Suzaku was his lack of attention for content analysis over his weird meta argument. He's abandoned that point now; I don't see the value of continuing to vote him for behaviour he is correcting. To be sure, I would still like to see more detailed content analysis of him, but for the moment I am satisfied he has made the attempt. I do feel he dropped his case on me a little too easily, with too much space to wiggle back onto me if I should become a wagon, but nothing I'd push over Ovan right now.

This came off as opportunistic to me, like scum reacting to people who are either helping or hurting their game

This line seems too bold to me to declare, and the reason for my abandonment too simplified. Had Suzaku made the same case on any other person my criticism would be as fierce; That his vote was on me was not of particular interest to me, as I have at no time considered it possible that I would be lynched over it. I took issue with him taking an absurd point and holding it up for most of the game, responding only to criticism but taking no initiative. He has ameliorated his behaviour and, while I find his present push to be too broadly said and sans nuance, it is considerably better.

Ovan's appeal to emotion is not indicative of alignment to me. I'm not happy he uses it, but it does not sway me either.

On a re-read:

using bullets or numbers or such things is in fact a way to make your posts seem like they have more content than they actually do

Please elaborate how this is the case? If I use any of those methods I'd achieve brevity, not verbosity.

[Elieson]

Since Elieson isn't anywhere around, and I'm bored, have some votals.

Leknaat (0):

Ovan (3): Tibarn, Silent Swordsman Lv?, Leknaat (L-2)

Silent Swordsman Lv? (0):

R2D2 (0):

Joey Wheeler (2): Suzaku Kururugi, R2D2 (L-3)

Suzaku Kururugi (2): Szeth, Joey (L-3)

Szeth (0):

Tibarn. (1): Madam Flurrie (L-4)

Madam Flurrie (0):

No vote: Ovan

Approximately 25? Hours Remain in Day 1 (my brain refuses to math righ tnow). Hammer is 5 votes. If I screwed up, lemme know.

Looks good to me, thank you eclipse!

15.5 Hours remain in the day. The above votals are correct. 5 votes are required for Hammer.

Calling for a Sub. The player on the Sub list to PM me with the best poem about Elieson shall sub in for Ovan

[Marisa Kirisame]

@Mod: I believe Tibarn has gone 48 hours without a post.

The amount of lurking in this game is astounding.

--

Those who are not voting Ovan right now, can you clarify why Joey respectively Suzaku is worse than Ovan, and what your thoughts are on Ovan at the very least?

For my part I do not consider Joey Wheeler to be exceptionally scummy as his content is somewhat original and recent. I don't agree there was opportunistic bandwagon hopping, but I do dislike the knowledge that Joey has cast suspicion upon both Ovan and Suzaku, who were both being pushed to the front heavily, with little to no mention of others. Joey, what are your thoughts on Silent Swordsman?

I have already explained why I prefer Ovan over Suzaku.

[Estelle]

My scumread on Suzaku hasn't diminished at all. His vote on Joey doesn't make any sense at all to me. In what way is Joey "generalizing"? Don't understand that, and I don't think he really misrepped Suzaku's posts either. His point was that Suzaku dismissed the content in Leknaat's Ovan vote and chose to focus on the fact that Leknaat's RPing was padding the post. It might have slightly been doing so, but not by so much as to outweigh the content. And I already commented on the part about Joey voting Suzaku as the wagon was gaining momentum.

Suzaku also said that he misinterpreted Leknaat's initial Ovan vote, and he might have done so, but that's not the point. He didn't attack Leknaat over the content of the vote, but its style.

[Kamina]

Wait, didn't R2's post come after your vote?

This is still a thing and it's seriously bugging me. R2's post came after Ovan, so his reasoning is bull. The fact that he just ignored it hasn't helped much either.

Haven't been overly fond of his content anyway, which I think I've mentioned in my last content post.

##Unvote

##Vote: Ovan

Can you rephrase your question Leknaat, I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around it.