Persona 3 Mafia - Game Cancelled - Mass Destronktion

[Green Poet]

A third party possibility is for that person who loved junpei. I consider her a third party because she was not exactly allied with either.

If we're talking about who I think we are, then yes, she matches who Refa could be crumbing. But she's more of an antagonist than a neutral character because of her motivations outside of her romance with Junpei, and I don't really think that Refa would bring this up if it would incriminate him.

[Shinori]

Junko: Vigs are usually town-aligned anyway. At least, in most games they are.

Also, SB's refusal is kinda suspicious to me. Like I said, if we truly have nothing to worry from him, revealing it would just mean that neither town nor maf has a reason to bother him.

No, SB's refusal isn't suspicious.

What sky_paladin said. It's this reluctance to tell your wincon that is making us suspect you if you're really as harmless to us as you claim.

No it doesn't make me suspect him at all at the moment. Either he's lying or he's telling the truth, either way at the moment focusing and tunneling on a claimed harmless third party is worthless.

So, after you've asked me, who do you think is scum Wen?

5 pages or something of third party spec is silly and we should move on at this point.

Pretty sure if Sky was a townie he would have more to say then that at this point. If I win I leave the game immediately, so you should all just wait for me to manage it for fail and become a townie. The only antitown faction in this game according to the wincon in the op is a Nyxist, so unless you think I'm mafia who just decided to draw attention to myself like this for no reason lynching me is silly.

Bolded should seriously happen.

I'm not demanding a lynch of SB. I'm saying "I think this guy is trying to wriggle out of a lie, please help me light a fire under him til some truth boils out" because we have no disadvantage from finding out since he is apparently not part of town.

SB I think you're lying scum so until you convince me otherwise or somebody else decides to jump out and say "Yeah I have an anti-town win condition but you can totally trust me" you have my undying number one fan vote. And there it shall stay while I go to bed, and I shall review the thread when I've had some sleep. And sobered up a bit.

Bolded seems false to me. No you aren't demanding it but you definitely aren't looking for scum anywhere else. In my eyes it looks like you are scared of him? If SB's role is anything like my role was and the whole Shin and Horace thing then you would be pretty much fucked. However I doubt that's his role because that would mean this game has WAY too many killing abilities. I also heavily dislike that you are refusing to vote anyone else or do anything productive.

Well that's convenient.

##unvote

##vote SB

OK NOW I am going to bed. Looking forward to something from SB that isn't "Lynch me because I'm anti-town." Goodnight~

Really? That's 'convenient'? Nothing else? And then you vote him as if you hope he's just gonna get lynched.

How about the person who shot FFM doesn't claim until its necessary.

SB, wanna add WIFOM to your list of crimes? You didn't scum hunt, you are voting me because I am voting you.

I don't push for quick hammer but I will quick hammer if it's L-1 and Im panicking.

I agree with the claiming thing, UNLESS he has no more shots in which case he should because he would just be a vanilla townie at that point in time. Also SB has done 100% more scum hunting than you and you are defintely misrepping him.

Also what do you mean would quick hammer if you were panicking?

ATTN: scumbuddy

Please post in the QT; I don't know who you are yet and Poly won't tell me.

because the mafia having three extra nightkils over the course of the game is kind of a lot, i'm assuming

and that was definitely not a mafia daykill.

It would be funny if these two things were connected. But that's just a joke!

OKAY SO THAT WAS A QUOTE POST. NOW OTHER STUFF.

Sky needs to be lynched. He's not being helpful at all and is just tunneling a third party. Proto makes me feel uncomfortable. Also I don't really like Refa.

Current thought process would be something like Sky > Refa > Proto at the moment.

Dinner's ready so I'll post more in detail later about refa and proto.

People should tell me what they think of Post #73 though.

[charlie_]

Proto is playing in this game?

[Refa]

That's some next level lurking right there.

[Junk]

wut shinori?.

[Terrador]

Sky needs to be lynched. He's not being helpful at all and is just tunneling a third party. Proto makes me feel uncomfortable. Also I don't really like Refa.

Current thought process would be something like Sky > Refa > Proto at the moment.

Dinner's ready so I'll post more in detail later about refa and proto.

People should tell me what they think of Post #73 though.

Is this the post you mean...?

In other news: which poster is Proto?

[Green Poet]

People should tell me what they think of Post #73 though.

I'm... not actually seeing anything relevant there. It's just FFM talking about Refa, which is a little odd since he votes him later, but what does that have to do with SP/SB?

[Shinori]

WEN I MEAN NOT PROTO.

[Terrador]

Shinori was typing a post, but... now he isn't? Is that a quirk of the forum, or did he have to go, or did he decide to not post after all?

[Also, asked and answered: quirk of the forum.]

Oh, Wen! Yeah, that makes sense.

And in other news, I think the point Shinori's trying to make here is that FFM trying to cover for Refa is shady in his eyes. Or am I wrong...?

[MRDRHAWK]

ITT: Wen is Proto

I'll get updated votals in a bit, when I'm not writing for other things.

[Shinori]

It doesn't sound profitable to start a wagon this early.

Especially since Refa hasn't done anything really suspicious.

##Vote: Refa

cos why not

This combo of posts seems really weird. And we know he flipped scum. I'd honestly be willing to bet this tells us something about Refa's alignment.

[Green Poet]

I think the point Shinori's trying to make here is that FFM trying to cover for Refa is shady in his eyes. Or am I wrong...?

I'd honestly be willing to bet this tells us something about Refa's alignment.

Makes sense, yeah. As I said earlier, FFM later proceeded to vote Refa on the grounds that he was joking too much, which is odd as it's what he's criticizing people for doing prior to #73.

Thoughts on this, Refa?

[Eurykins]

Also:

It weakens D1 reads when scum can just vote last minute and have no suspicion placed on them. There's a reason turbowagons tend to hurt town more often than not.

Just because people would ##Unvote/##Vote again doesn't mean that they can change it on a whim and not look bad. If someone has/had a case on someone else, but, say, didn't vote during the day phase or otherwise was unvoted (and thus their vote got moved by whoever's messing with them), doing the unvote/re-vote thing doesn't hurt at all. And if someone chooses to randomize/suddenly switch their vote over to someone else, that can look just as bad as if someone did it under normal circumstances (ie. situations that wouldn't involve a vote swapper being around) because people can just as easily question why they changed over to someone else (instead of fixing where their vote SHOULD be).

AKA. Fixing vote placement on where you believe a vote should be/stay should NOT encourage more turbowagoning, imo, and if need be, we can just request more votals from the mod(s) to keep track of where every vote is.

Idk... Refa's slightly bugging me atm. Maybe just disagreeable logics, but not liking some vibes I'm gettin'.

[euklyd]

wait so I just woke up and we have 18 pages what the fuck

also apparently there was a daykill? Assuming it didn't kill.

brb reading

pedit: whoever it was flipped scum. cool. so, not me.

[euklyd]

wait so I just woke up and we have 18 pages what the fuck

also apparently there was a daykill? Assuming it didn't kill ME.

brb reading

pedit: whoever it was flipped scum. cool. so, not me.

ftfm

[Junk]

This combo of posts seems really weird. And we know he flipped scum. I'd honestly be willing to bet this tells us something about Refa's alignment.

Check the time though. He may have just been Joke voting for all we know. This was 3 hours later though. Still I do not think we should worry about Refa yet. We can just rolecop him. We only have one lynch a day. Most of us have come to a consensus that it is probably Sky. Around 5 suspect him but have not voted. Hey is it also possible to get a double lynch? Say we lynch sky cuz we got 5. That spells death for him right? So can we lynch another person?

[Sky_Paladin]

Me too but I'm playing with a handicap - cannot retread thread and on iPhone

I am busy cannot do anything for the next ten hours or so

[Terrador]

Also:

Just because people would ##Unvote/##Vote again doesn't mean that they can change it on a whim and not look bad. If someone has/had a case on someone else, but, say, didn't vote during the day phase or otherwise was unvoted (and thus their vote got moved by whoever's messing with them), doing the unvote/re-vote thing doesn't hurt at all. And if someone chooses to randomize/suddenly switch their vote over to someone else, that can look just as bad as if someone did it under normal circumstances (ie. situations that wouldn't involve a vote swapper being around) because people can just as easily question why they changed over to someone else (instead of fixing where their vote SHOULD be).

AKA. Fixing vote placement on where you believe a vote should be/stay should NOT encourage more turbowagoning, imo, and if need be, we can just request more votals from the mod(s) to keep track of where every vote is.

Idk... Refa's slightly bugging me atm. Maybe just disagreeable logics, but not liking some vibes I'm gettin'.

...I'm definitely starting to feel that the evidence against Refa is piling up. I'm not firm on it, but feeling iffier by the hour.

ftfm

ftfm? Not familiar with this.

Check the time though. He may have just been Joke voting for all we know. This was 3 hours later though. Still I do not think we should worry about Refa yet. We can just rolecop him. We only have one lynch a day. Most of us have come to a consensus that it is probably Sky. Around 5 suspect him but have not voted. Hey is it also possible to get a double lynch? Say we lynch sky cuz we got 5. That spells death for him right? So can we lynch another person?

Traditionally, no. I'm assuming this game is no different.

Me too but I'm playing with a handicap - cannot retread thread and on iPhone

I am busy cannot do anything for the next ten hours or so

Me too--what?

[Green Poet]

ftfm? Not familiar with this.

"Fixed That For Myself."

Refa, could you tell us more about what happens once Junpei targets you?

[Eurykins]

Check the time though. He may have just been Joke voting for all we know. This was 3 hours later though. Still I do not think we should worry about Refa yet. We can just rolecop him. We only have one lynch a day. Most of us have come to a consensus that it is probably Sky. Around 5 suspect him but have not voted. Hey is it also possible to get a double lynch? Say we lynch sky cuz we got 5. That spells death for him right? So can we lynch another person?

- I agree with the notion that it's not necessarily a tell on Refa/FFM 'cause it could've been RVS time frame.

- No, only one lynch can go through per day phase. 5 votes are needed to secure the lynch on someone (at this point/day phase); 7 to instantly hammer him (which cuts the rest of the day phase, if there's time remaining, off), I believe. So that's where we have to pick n' choose, and save the other for the next day phase. You are correct though, in saying that we can/should use abilities and/or items (since I think the rules stated that some items are floating around/can exist in this game?) on Refa and/or others that we find suspicious while aiming today's lynch at who we feel is of highest priority.

@Terrador: Agreed, though I'd still vote/lynch Wen/Kop or Sky_Paladin over him currently. Definitely worth keeping an eye on Refa though.

[Terrador]

"Fixed That For Myself."

Refa, could you tell us more about what happens once Junpei targets you?

Alrighty then. And... I thought the bits about Junpei targeting were jokes. Is that not the case...?

- I agree with the notion that it's not necessarily a tell on Refa/FFM 'cause it could've been RVS time frame.

- No, only one lynch can go through per day phase. 5 votes are needed to secure the lynch on someone (at this point/day phase); 7 to instantly hammer him (which cuts the rest of the day phase, if there's time remaining, off), I believe. So that's where we have to pick n' choose, and save the other for the next day phase. You are correct though, in saying that we can/should use abilities and/or items (since I think the rules stated that some items are floating around/can exist in this game?) on Refa and/or others that we find suspicious while aiming today's lynch at who we feel is of highest priority.

@Terrador: Agreed, though I'd still vote/lynch Wen/Kop or Sky_Paladin over him currently. Definitely worth keeping an eye on Refa though.

First point: Yes, but it isn't helping.

Second point: Yes.

Third point: Once again, I wholly agree. My vote remains with Sky_Paladin.

[Refa]

1. Some can (I've seen some with means of self-protecting themselves on various methods/accounts, redirecting actions away from themselves, etc.), so long as they aren't targeted for lynches/getting shot. That being said, it also certainly doesn't harm a survivor ITP to claim that they aren't anti-town, since all it means is that townies shouldn't concern themselves with said ITP and should focus on other people instead (and so, the whole surviving aspect is now a hell of lot easier for said ITP, as scum killing them is pretty much the only threat he'd have to fear at this point so long as town is not interested in lynching him).

2. I disagree, given the amount Wen/Kop was posting and bringing so little to the table. He's not a newbie player; it's easy to tell/see when someone's actually interested in scum hunting/progressing the thread, as opposed to just splashing around in the water and doing absolutely nothing with the effort.

3. If this is true, then it's less of a risk, I agree. However, there are times/games in which people have also been pretty damn inactive (I'm hoping it won't happen in this one) and/or just not voting. Which means that the threat of vote manipulation is still dangerous/a potential threat, especially if someone takes advantage of inactivity to slide in a pile of votes that were otherwise neutral/not in effect yet. It never hurts to be careful when it comes to double-voting, vote manipulators, or anything of the sort.

1. Yes, but my point is Survivor needs to align itself with either town or scum to win. Additionally, it'd contradict with what SB said about his wincon, because there'd never be a point as a survivor where he'd be able to be converted to a vanilla townie.

2. Even experienced players can flop around ED1, I don't really agree with you.

3. I don't get what that has to do with what I said?

If we're talking about who I think we are, then yes, she matches who Refa could be crumbing. But she's more of an antagonist than a neutral character because of her motivations outside of her romance with Junpei, and I don't really think that Refa would bring this up if it would incriminate him.

I like to keep things real. My role itself would make no sense as scum, so I can always claim (hahahaha how many times does that actually stop a lynch) if I need too. It's pretty sweet though. :3

Makes sense, yeah. As I said earlier, FFM later proceeded to vote Refa on the grounds that he was joking too much, which is odd as it's what he's criticizing people for doing prior to #73.

Thoughts on this, Refa?

Damn, you caught me

I agree his voteswap looks suspicious? Really not sure why you need to ask me, it's not like I'm going to say YEAH GUYS I'M SCUMMY PLEASE LYNCH ME, you know? I can see why people would think that makes me scum, but it's like there's not really much I can do to defend myself from that, so meh.

Check the time though. He may have just been Joke voting for all we know. This was 3 hours later though. Still I do not think we should worry about Refa yet. We can just rolecop him. We only have one lynch a day. Most of us have come to a consensus that it is probably Sky. Around 5 suspect him but have not voted. Hey is it also possible to get a double lynch? Say we lynch sky cuz we got 5. That spells death for him right? So can we lynch another person?

You can't double lynch, it'll just be randomized between the two.

"Fixed That For Myself."

Refa, could you tell us more about what happens once Junpei targets you?

I literally cannot. Sorry.

[Green Poet]

I thought the bits about Junpei targeting were jokes. Is that not the case...?

I'm fairly certain they weren't. Refa reiterated that his role does have a relation to the Junpei role in #341, which is far enough into the game that jokes like that should cease.

[Terrador]

1. Yes, but my point is Survivor needs to align itself with either town or scum to win. Additionally, it'd contradict with what SB said about his wincon, because there'd never be a point as a survivor where he'd be able to be converted to a vanilla townie.

2. Even experienced players can flop around ED1, I don't really agree with you.

3. I don't get what that has to do with what I said?

I like to keep things real. My role itself would make no sense as scum, so I can always claim (hahahaha how many times does that actually stop a lynch) if I need too. It's pretty sweet though. :3

Damn, you caught me

I agree his voteswap looks suspicious? Really not sure why you need to ask me, it's not like I'm going to say YEAH GUYS I'M SCUMMY PLEASE LYNCH ME, you know? I can see why people would think that makes me scum, but it's like there's not really much I can do to defend myself from that, so meh.

You can't double lynch, it'll just be randomized between the two.

I literally cannot. Sorry.

A couple of questions/comments:

-Seconding experienced players' ED1 flop. I'm something resembling new to SF mafia, but I've seen my fair share of rodeos on Smogon, and I have a horrendous RVS. Seriously. See: Drafter Mafia.

-Pretty sure the one with more votes (after adjustments) would be lynched unless they wound up being the same amount, and even then, there could be a lynch tiebreaker mechanic in place.

-Finally, are you claiming a posting restriction?

[Refa]

-Yeah, I meant if the votes had an equal amount.

-Not really a posting restriction, rather some vague wording. I'll elaborate more when I actually get targeted by him.