Persona 3 Mafia - Game Cancelled - Mass Destronktion

[Junk]

I did not certainly expect Euklyd to get killed as he did not seem to active as opposed to the others and did not seem like a threat. He might have been guessing the right people though otherwise they would not have had to kill him. He was also just a regular townie. I honestly thought he might be scum. SB's death was surprising. He was suspicious of Mitsuki who we now know to be town. SB basically admitted his role and mason recruiter does not sound to significant. If green poet really is "the dog" we all know that GP is town. SB might have been guessing the right people as well or there would not been a significant need to kill him just yet. Also since when is Wen a she? Also guys it may look bad that mitsuki died when she suspected me but you have to remember she eventually unvoted me after I posted a certain post. That means I could relax a bit more. Honestly if I was scum I would have wanted Terrador dead because he seems to suspect me the most.

I really want to see Wens "proof" soon though.

[Zkirsche]

Anyone going to claim those kills or are they all scum?

I thought Sky might be scum as Euk and SB were both very much on his case and Mitsuki had him as only a slight townread and was a good shot anyway. This prompted me to read his walls and I see a genuine effort at scumhunting and actually find myself agreeing with his points on Junko, who I myself had given a pass due to the whole newbie thing (which is a habit of mine). Also I go back to what I said in my first post wrt scum acting differently and conclude that I am happy with him.

This in turn made me reread Junko. He never addressed Sky's attack on him and despite the fact that sky was a major scumread he overlooks him completely and waves the suspicion off a bunch. The reason for doing so was that he looked better "due to him voting for Refa who we now know as scum" even though a couple of posts before he admitted that if Sky didn't want to vote Refa then he'd be next on the hitlist, which justified a continued suspicion. What does that mean, anyway, am I scummy for not voting Refa? Considering at one point you felt so certain he was scum that you didn't think you'd get any farther yesterday you'd think you'd analyse his read and defence posts a little and comment on them.

Also his attack on me feels a bit contrived, stating at first that he thinks I'm overplaying Green Poet's actions ( may I ask how am I overplaying them) and then later stating that he thinks I'm overplaying Mitsuki's actions (also didn't state how). Could be scum forgetting their case. Junko can you respond to Sky's case on you and the above? Thanks.

@GP:

. Regarding Terrador, I assumed that you didn't have a problem with his posts collectively because he wasn't on your lynch priority

I guess but the way you put it made it out like I thought we was town, which isn't the case: I don't have a proper read on the guy yet.

I wasn't asking you to justify nor defend his thought process; just asking what your own independent thoughts on them were.

That isn't scumhunting.

I may be being preemptive in suspecting you because of your comments on others' posts in terms of what I see to be semantics rather than their reads. I'll wait for some more of your thoughts on the walls and such.

So you want to hear more from me so you can affirm your suspicions but:

I may have used other action(s), and would prefer to hear from Eury, Breezy, Terrador and Shinori before I reveal anything.

Now you don't care to hear from me?

I want to reread Kopf but his ISO is just such a pain, copying "ä" into it didn't work just now and that's about as much effort as I'm putting in right now.

##Vote:Junko

Want stuff answered from you.

[Sky_Paladin]

I am assuming the Euklyd kill was a town hit because after reading the interactions with him and Refa I was going to make a case on him today. Oh well.

Who is Wen? The name keeps popping up but I have no idea who it is.

SB was probably going to be killed because of his claim allowing him to act basically as a town confirmed semi-cop; it's way too powerful for mafia to leave alive. I guess they used their strongman hit on SB that Refa taunted him about.

[Sky_Paladin]

Edit by way of double post: I assume if we had a doc they were covering SB.

[Zkirsche]

Honestly if I was scum I would have wanted Terrador dead because he seems to suspect me the most.

"Honestly" ;/

Also SB dying isn't surprising considering that SB was basically confirmed town.

[Junk]

Anyone going to claim those kills or are they all scum?

I thought Sky might be scum as Euk and SB were both very much on his case and Mitsuki had him as only a slight townread and was a good shot anyway. This prompted me to read his walls and I see a genuine effort at scumhunting and actually find myself agreeing with his points on Junko, who I myself had given a pass due to the whole newbie thing (which is a habit of mine). Also I go back to what I said in my first post wrt scum acting differently and conclude that I am happy with him.

This in turn made me reread Junko. He never addressed Sky's attack on him and despite the fact that sky was a major scumread he overlooks him completely and waves the suspicion off a bunch. The reason for doing so was that he looked better "due to him voting for Refa who we now know as scum" even though a couple of posts before he admitted that if Sky didn't want to vote Refa then he'd be next on the hitlist, which justified a continued suspicion. What does that mean, anyway, am I scummy for not voting Refa? Considering at one point you felt so certain he was scum that you didn't think you'd get any farther yesterday you'd think you'd analyse his read and defence posts a little and comment on them.

Also his attack on me feels a bit contrived, stating at first that he thinks I'm overplaying Green Poet's actions ( may I ask how am I overplaying them) and then later stating that he thinks I'm overplaying Mitsuki's actions (also didn't state how). Could be scum forgetting their case. Junko can you respond to Sky's case on you and the above? Thanks.

@GP:

I guess but the way you put it made it out like I thought we was town, which isn't the case: I don't have a proper read on the guy yet.

That isn't scumhunting.

So you want to hear more from me so you can affirm your suspicions but:

Now you don't care to hear from me?

I want to reread Kopf but his ISO is just such a pain, copying "ä" into it didn't work just now and that's about as much effort as I'm putting in right now.

##Vote:Junko

Want stuff answered from you.

Yeah about the green poet thing. I think I messed up and thought it was green poet at first but to make sure went and looked at your posts and saw mitsuki. I said woops and made sure it was mitsuki and not green poet in my post. I might have forgotten to edit some stuff as I was in a hurry. I apologize for this inconvenience.

[Zkirsche]

@Sky: Wen=Kopfjager. His previous account was called Wen Yang.

[Zkirsche]

Yeah about the green poet thing. I think I messed up and thought it was green poet at first but to make sure went and looked at your posts and saw mitsuki. I said woops and made sure it was mitsuki and not green poet in my post. I might have forgotten to edit some stuff as I was in a hurry. I apologize for this inconvenience.

This is not answering for about 90% of the criticisms made.

[Green Poet]

1. I guess but the way you put it made it out like I thought we was town, which isn't the case: I don't have a proper read on the guy yet.

2. That isn't scumhunting.

3. So you want to hear more from me so you can affirm your suspicions but:

Now you don't care to hear from me?

1. Okay; no worries.

2. Arguably so, but why not humor me? I'm not asking you to state that BBM's thought process was scummy, or to self-incriminate in any way. Consider BBM as a separate mind from yours, and you could find something potentially telling.

3. That was in regards to piecing together night actions, because I had a feeling that hearing from those four people specifically would mean the most. Naturally I do want to hear from you today as well; I want to hear from everybody today.

SB was probably going to be killed because of his claim allowing him to act basically as a town confirmed semi-cop

Could you explain what you mean by the bolded?

[Eurykins]

Blah- got multiple blisters on my hands to deal with typing, and 3 fellow townies dead. That's just great. ;/

I myself have infinite Insomnia, which I obviously used last night. I may have used other action(s), and would prefer to hear from Eury, Breezy, Terrador and Shinori before I reveal anything.

Bolded: Figured as much, given your post during the night phase.

((Also, uh, if that woof woof bark bark thing was another mentioning of flavor crumbing, then you may wish to be careful of whatever flavor rule Poly has going for this game [as he's already warned out about role/flavor speccing or whatevs]. Call me oblivious for knowing nothing of P3 characters/game, but just sayin'.))

Italicized: That's making me curious as to if you did do something or not (aside from in-thread typing). Looking back over the flipped PMs so far, I don't see a whole lot of multiple roles in one, so either you're hinting at a JoAT of sorts, or somethin' else. (Either that, or you're just trying to bait out more information in exchange for the ploy of saying you did more than you actually did last night phase). Not sure what to think/make of it, imo.

Also, with 3 townie death flips, no Mason OC claims yet, no claims of any sort on said kills, or anything, I also have another question:

That said, I would strongly advise anyone not to try to kill me.

What did you mean by this? You said it in D1, and you chose not to really respond when Euklyd asked if this implied PGO. (And if that assumption he made was correct, did it so happen to trigger last night phase, possibly with SB if he tried Masoning you?) If I'm mistaken, then by all means correct me so we can keep the information straight.

Also, wrt your Insomnia: Is there a reason you chose not to use it last night phase until the very end?

[Zkirsche]

If a townie shot Euklyd over the vote shuffler suspects then ;/

I got Kopf's ISO by ISOing Elieson and I also read Shinori's massive wall and I noticed that Kopf never refutes or even acknowledges the points Shinori made against him, which is bad in and of itself but then he goes:

Shinori also bugs me somewhat, but this is more based on previous games I've seen him play. His behaviour seems closer to when he's scum than when he's town...

Which is questionable because he had slight town vibes from Shinori before his wall post and now he has scum vibes which I can only assume are a result of the wall. I don't know though because he never elaborates on what exactly is scummy or says anything definite about anyone really, I feel like all three of his concluding reads from D1 are weak, saying that Junko "could be either town or scum possibly", BBM just "felt a bit odd" and how Shinori also bugs him somewhat.

Would like some more definitive scumreads/lines of attack on anyone really.

Consider BBM as a separate mind from yours, and you could find something potentially telling.

Liek what? No really, what do you expect for me to get from this? I know I'm town so I know he was town and I know analysing it won't accomplish anything useful. I have better things to do with my time, like actually finding scum.

What exactly DO you want to hear from Eury and co w.r.t. night actions? I'm also taking the dog crumb with a grain of salt because flavourspec is bad.

[Sky_Paladin]

"town confirmed semi-cop"

Sure - my understanding of SB's role claim was that he could effectively jail a player a night and chat with them at the same time. If they are jailed; they couldn't make a hit. So if SB jailed a scum, we would be one-less hit than expected, or if SB jailed town, no change in the number of expected hits. It's less effective night 1 since we don't know how many hits to expect, but from night 2 onwards it gets pretty OP. Of course it seems his actual role was slightly different than his claim, but that just might be because I'm in Kyoto on a phone and haven't read carefully. In a lot of games in #Shrinemaiden, jailer = effective cop, especially when scum are down to one night kill at a time.

He was town confirmed in my eyes because he served us up a Refa without pressure. Oh right and then he died.

[Green Poet]

@Eury - I posted that dog bit as close to the end of the night phase as I could, so that scum would have less time to change their night actions in reaction to it, and hopefully not see it at all. Its potential usefulness relies upon the assumption that scum thinks a certain way and makes certain actions, and I didn't want them to change their actions based on what I posted.

Also, I got it approved by Elie beforehand. It actually isn't flavorspec so much as something that will help prove certain people's alignments later down the line based on flips.

What did you mean by this? You said it in D1, and you chose not to really respond when Euklyd asked if this implied PGO. (And if that assumption he made was correct, did it so happen to trigger last night phase, possibly with SB if he tried Masoning you?) If I'm mistaken, then by all means correct me so we can keep the information straight.

I mean exactly what I said; no one, regardless of their alignment, should try to kill me. Masonry isn't lethal.

[Terrador]

[note: I'm not putting much effort in at the moment because I'm updating FE3. Give me a couple of hours and I'll scumhunt in-depth, but until then I'm just making surface posts that seem necessary.]

Theory on the night kills: it could be possible that, as some Masons do, SB died because he targeted a scum. This wasn't mentioned in his role PM, so I consider it a very low-percentage scenario, but hey, maybe. Makes more sense than there being three night kills after the Mafia sniper is dead.

[Eurykins]

@Eury - I posted that dog bit as close to the end of the night phase as I could, so that scum would have less time to change their night actions in reaction to it, and hopefully not see it at all. Its potential usefulness relies upon the assumption that scum thinks a certain way and makes certain actions, and I didn't want them to change their actions based on what I posted.

Also, I got it approved by Elie beforehand. It actually isn't flavorspec so much as something that will help prove certain people's alignments later down the line based on flips.

I mean exactly what I said; no one, regardless of their alignment, should try to kill me. Masonry isn't lethal.

WRT Mason issue: That is true; I stand corrected (read/thought of it as sort of a reactionary to any sort of targeting, not just solely lethal).

Also, the bolded section: "Something that will help prove certain people's alignments later down the line based on flips" is basically saying:

"As role PM flips and we see the flavors/roles unfolding, it'll aid in proving other people's claims in terms of roles/flavors as time goes on."

...which... basically IS role/flavor-speccing? Which is... not something Poly allows in this game and otherwise isn't generally something you should be using/relying on? o_O? I'm not sure how that's different/not flavor-speccing, idk.

Underlined section: Well, I suppose that's a viable reason, but it still somehow confuses me slightly. You didn't want to post earlier, due to the fact that you'd be flavor/role-crumbing who you are in-thread for people to know, but also already declared yourself as someone who shouldn't be targeted by lethal actions as well (thus dissuading anyone from shooting you). I'm getting slightly confused regarding your actions, as they seem to be more self-serving than not in terms of keeping people away from yourself.

[Junk]

"Honestly" ;/

Also SB dying isn't surprising considering that SB was basically confirmed town.

True but his role wasn't too dangerous to the mafia. Mafia knows who is not mafia right? They even knew SB's role. It is not like SB could do much to them. SB didn't need to be killed at that moment unless the mason recruiter is alot more powerful than what it seems to describe on the wiki, The mafia could have focused their efforts somewhere elsewhere. I think SB died because he was getting the right reads. I also still suspect Sky Paladin but decided to not focus on him as he seemed to be becoming more like a townie along the way. He could have been doing it to defend himself but I do not know. I wanted to focus more on other participants. I will admit I also tend to contradict my own votes a lot which I guess is scummy towards mafia veterans. I guess it is kind of weird to be contradicting myself XD. Honestly kopflajer is my priority right now. Until I see his "proof" he will not be erased. I think I am just messing up a lot in this game. I thought it was scummy to not point out contradictions in my own statement. I see your point though kirsche and will try to explain things better.

[Green Poet]

What exactly DO you want to hear from Eury and co w.r.t. night actions?

I thought that I would be able to take most of what they said at face value more than others, based on the reasoning that I feel that some of them are likely town, and the others are somewhat lurkers whose posts would be significant by virtue of scarcity, and also easiest to parse through/ISO.

If any of them were town investigators, I would want to carefully consider who they commented on today, as they would likely have stronger convictions in weaker cases that are biased because of their results.

"town confirmed semi-cop"

Sure - my understanding of SB's role claim was that he could effectively jail a player a night and chat with them at the same time.

I see. I ISO'd SB and personally can't see anywhere where he claimed he had a jail/isolate ability to go with his masonry, though.

1.Which is... not something Poly allows in this game and otherwise isn't generally something you should be using/relying on? o_O? I'm not sure how that's different/not flavor-speccing, idk.

2. Underlined section: Well, I suppose that's a viable reason, but it still somehow confuses me slightly. You didn't want to post earlier, due to the fact that you'd be flavor/role-crumbing who you are in-thread for people to know, but also already declared yourself as someone who shouldn't be targeted by lethal actions as well (thus dissuading anyone from shooting you). I'm getting slightly confused regarding your actions, as they seem to be more self-serving than not in terms of keeping people away from yourself.

1. Poly didn't seem to have a problem with it in PMs, though... eh, I think it'll be alright.

2. I'm not trying to crumb town-friendly ITP, if there was ambiguity in that regard.

(Hopefully) final clarification on this issue: what I posted at night doesn't concern myself much more than others. It is something that town might be able to benefit from after certain flips towards the end of the game, and its usefulness depends on information that will likely be revealed in this game, not knowledge of Persona.

Eury, thoughts on anyone other than myself?

[MRDRHAWK]

Modnote: If I see the discussion rely solely on flavourspec, I'm beating people with a modkill stick. Flavour crumbs are okay, as long as it's not outright claiming.

[Shinori]

So there was this thing I noticed in the flavor of the last update and I think I might know something cause of it.....

[Eurykins]

@GP:

1. So long as Poly/Elie/whoev's else approved of it, that's good. Was just worried that needless modkilling- especially if it hits more townies- would just suck at this point. ;/

2. I never said you were necessarily crumbing town-friendly ITP, but more of the fact that your actions just seem more... scattered/confusing than maybe need be.

3. Ah, I see (regarding final clarification).

WRT others in the thread:

- Sky's last cases/posts in late D1 (as said before) felt much better to me than his ED1 gameplay. Despite SB flipping town, I'm not necessarily seeing Sky as scum atm; more likely a townie who got stuck on another townie's fake ITP claims.

- Kirsche has overall solid posting so far (from what I can tell- ISO link for him, Elie or Poly?), and his arguments/questions this day phase alone are warranted/logical. So not much to see there- more townie than scummy atm.

- Kop/Wen = Still not overly thrilled with his gameplay so far, but waiting for his means of 'proving himself' this day phase (as he claims he can).

- Junko is a little shaky (and hasn't done a great amount to reply to Kirsche's comments/questions), so unsure about him atm.

- Terrador still strikes me as fairly townie, imo, though I await his more in-depth thoughts he promises later. That being said, I do disagree with Terrador in the notion of you (GP) possibly have being the third night kill, given the fact you openly stated that you're not someone who should be shot at (logically would make any killer hesitate to consider shooting you, imo).

- Shinori seems solidly townie to me as well, given last day phase posting/his posting style. Doesn't have the same lazy vibes as he generally has with scum!nori.

- I don't recall seeing too much from Breezy (in terms of things sticking out to me), but I was also hindered during the last stretch of the day phase in trying to bandage my hand and get work around the house done, so missed a decent chunk of his posting.

- I found this post from Bluedoom last day phase peculiar. All in all, I didn't see much from him, so would prefer to see him and hear more from him this day phase.

[Eurykins]

So there was this thing I noticed in the flavor of the last update and I think I might know something cause of it.....

Eh? Explain?

[Terrador]

- Terrador still strikes me as fairly townie, imo, though I await his more in-depth thoughts he promises later. That being said, I do disagree with Terrador in the notion of you (GP) possibly have being the third night kill, given the fact you openly stated that you're not someone who should be shot at (logically would make any killer hesitate to consider shooting you, imo).

I dunno... that seems pretty WIFOM to me. There were better targets than her that night, so that might have been an attempt to bait the night kill. Not entirely sure what to make of it, frankly; she seems to be crumbing a role in addition to insomniac, which seems kiiiiinda strong given that there's a vanillager in the game.

[Eurykins]

I dunno... that seems pretty WIFOM to me. There were better targets than her that night, so that might have been an attempt to bait the night kill. Not entirely sure what to make of it, frankly; she seems to be crumbing a role in addition to insomniac, which seems kiiiiinda strong given that there's a vanillager in the game.

Better targets, yes. SB was probably one, since as it was stated, he was basically another sort of pseudo-cop that could potentially clear people. Mitsuki was the double-voter, and Euklyd seemed a strong enough townie to some extent.

And the secondary notion I agree with, as that's why I was wondering what the heck to make of her first post this day phase. All of the flips thus far have been single abilities/a Vanilla, aside from scum JoAT on Refa (and even then, multiple limited shots of each is a norm). So that's why I'm wondering what she was implying/crumbing, if anything, in terms of night actions on her part. (Some part of me wondered if it was a bluff/facade of sorts to get us to divulge whatever night actions (if any) each of us took, basically in exchange for knowledge of what she could've/"maybe" have done.)

Not entirely thrilled with how she worded things, tbh, so I'd honestly prefer if GP did elaborate more if possible.

[Green Poet]

I found this post from Bluedoom last day phase peculiar. All in all, I didn't see much from him, so would prefer to see him and hear more from him this day phase.

I think this is potentially telling, about both Terrador and Marth. But I'm not sure a Sky lynch is worth it just based on this hunch, as Sky's last post seems logical and not something that mafia would want to speculate to the thread about. Everything since his "I'm dropping my SB case" is actually looking solid to me... which is confusing.

(Some part of me wondered if it was a bluff/facade of sorts to get us to divulge whatever night actions (if any) each of us took, basically in exchange for knowledge of what she could've/"maybe" have done.)

I wouldn't try to barter information with Terrador and yourself, whom I believe to be town... if anything, I would've tried to coax night action information out of my scumreads. I asked for thoughts from those particular four because, as stated previously, I felt that I would be able to take what they said at face value more so than anyone else.

Not entirely thrilled with how she worded things, tbh, so I'd honestly prefer if GP did elaborate more if possible.

Unfortunately, I've said as much as I can without giving scum information they can use.

[Shinori]

Eh? Explain?

It was a joke based off of poly's last post.