Shovel Knight Anonymafia - Game Over

[Marisa Kirisame]

Town reading somebody has little to do with "being on their side" with regards to their townreads and scumreads. It's about finding out the intent behind their posts, your style is very reiminiscent of my first anon game.and you don't really feel like you're going to stab my undead flesh through my armor at night.

Black's followups were fast (check timestamps) and internally consistent. I certainly don't agree with their read on you or pretty much anything else they said except for their Plague questioning and vote, but it feels like they really believe what they're saying and not just blurting out whatever reads for the sake of looking good.

I would agree that Tinker's tunneling is bad play if it were the majority of the content in their last post as opposed to literally all of it. There's no acknowledgement of the existence of the rest of the game though, which makes it much more likely that they're scum who just went "shit, I haven't posted for almost 24h, I have to come up with a vote", made up a vote to push and left it at that.

Do you think you'd just forget to mention anything at all about the rest of the game if you were town and had to catch up with 3+ pages of content? Specially when Treasure was barely a strong presence compared to other players.

Fair enough regarding your first point.

What do you think about the disconnect between Black Knight's cases and their vote?

Good point on your Tinker Knight vote. Probably would sheep (over voting Artic, but not above Black Knight/Treasure Knight). Man, now I have too many scumreads lol. Well, it'll probably be easier to read the townies among them when they make some posts.

[Olivier]

What do you think about the disconnect between Black Knight's cases and their vote?

I didn't really get the impression that he was heavily scumreading Propeller. He criticized how Propeller dropped their read due to meta and other stuff but he also criticized my posts to a similar extent and I wasn't in his to-lynch priorities.

I also understand why he's voting Plague over you from the way he worded it in his latest post, so I don't have an issue with him over that.

[Olivier]

Ah,

I forgot to mention that I would be relatively alright with shoving Polar Bear off a cliff if there are no more D1 posts from them and I don't like any of the lynches at deadline.

It sucks because of the exams but I can't really do anything about that unfortunately.

[Estelle]

Don't get me wrong, nitpicking isn't necessarily bad or scummy (you basically have to do it at times); my point is that you've found scum intent in a relatively small portion of his overall content and basically ignored the rest. I don't see how his null reads and his defense lack conviction in context? I thought Mole Knight was town because I could understand their reads and the thought process behind them, even if I don't like their conclusion (and most of their null reads were at the beginning of the game, where it would be rather hard for them to get scumreads). Additionally, I feel like they'll be a very easy read come their next post (if they still have a bunch of null reads by then, well I'll be more inclined to agree with you);

Town can be inquisitive, but your questions came across as scum feigning content *shrugs*. Can you explain how your questions lead to a townread on Plague/Propeller. Oh, my second question was meant for other people to pay attention to you. It's certainly not your fault that no people have stated opinions on you, but it's just weird that that's the case to begin with (especially considering that your slot has been putting out content).

Fair enough regarding your last point. I don't agree with it, but I can get where you're coming from at least.

My bad, I thought you were talking about a specific post. When I said Randa wasn't putting money where his mouth was, I meant his posts in general, not just the one about Plague.

Mole is suspicious of you, but doesn't follow through on them for weak reasons. For example, he says you forcing townreads is scummy, but you're null because your playstyle means common scum tells don't matter. He says he doesn't know what Tinker's reads from what he posted, but instead of making a prodvote, or prompting him to talk about certain player(s), or put any pressure on Tinker.

In his defence he repeatedly states he doesn't find Black's tone scummy. The problem is most of his earlier post was quite critical of Black's tone, he said Black was using defense in indignation which is "usually a scum tell".

He had a number of points in his wallpost that could be used as the basis for a scumread, but he tempered them all into nullreads.

I don't agree with their Polar reads, but I can follow Plague's other reads, and Propeller's being proactive makes me feel they're trustworthy. I'm reading their reaction to Polar's post as genuine town uneasiness rather than scum trying to smear him.

What kind of reply are you looking for here, metal guy?

A tell doesn't work anymore after you post about it because the mafia deliberately avoid it. I fully disclosed the tell as an explanation to King, and announced my intent to continue pursuing Black if they didn't post content so that they would post content. If Black hadn't replaced out and kept posting emotion over content I would've assumed it alignment-irrelevant and that Black Knight had turned into Salt Knight and stopped caring about the game.

What do you think of Black Knight after the sub?

Your scumread is based on Black faking emotion, and your saying "I am not really letting him off until he posts some content." implies that if he didn't, you would push him harder which I found weird for reasons you just stated. Now that I think about it, I probably interfered with your gambit, so whoops.

Do you mean post-sub Black? Their post is very comment-heavy, but I don't think it's alignment-indicative. The Plague vote is actually pretty bad, Plague hasn't talked about Black/Propeller apart from responding to others bringing it up, and the way they phrased the point about Plague not voting Polar seems noncommittal. There's only one post, but they're my second strongest read by default.

In regards to Tinker, my thoughts were he might not have had much time, and so decided to update his scum read rather than put out half-baked thoughts on other people for the sake of it. That said, I want him to respond to me because I can't tell if he's scumreading me, or just my ancestor.

Mole > Black > Tinker

[Olivier]

My bad, I thought you were talking about a specific post. When I said Randa wasn't putting money where his mouth was, I meant his posts in general, not just the one about Plague.

This anon game is very mysterious guys.

It would be nice if Mole talked about their reads ASAP.

[No Elimination]

can we just ignore the fact that i f'd up. k thanks.

[No Elimination]

ok so im just gonna talk about this quickly and make like an actual post later, because i have shit i gotta do. the point has been brought a couple times about why i said plague hadn't addressed the the question of why king and tinker were the same alignment. and people are saying he already answered that. and those people are wrong.

I don't see King's initial townslip comment coming from scum unless he was trying to make a scumbuddy look good, and I don't see scum trying to remove a townread from themselves for any reason except as a gambit, and I just figured double scum would be more likely to contrive that sort of scenario.

that isn't really a clear answer in my opinion, as to why they are the same alignment which is the part that i have a problem with. it explains why he has an individual townread on both, but not why he said he believes they are the same alignment. the problem i have with it, is that there's no reason to assume one of them being scum means the other one would be. it just seemed like awkward wording and a fallback solution for scum if they needed it. that was my concern with the topic at hand. it was a matter of me being paranoid over wording and wanting clarification on that. like saying there more likely to be the same alignment, is awkward. lets say we lynch one of them today, and they turn up scum. now you're townreading both (from what i understand) but that wording makes it so that you can back out of the townreads and lynch the other one. that is why i'm concerned with making the conclusion that they are the same alignment at this point in time. if we had more to go off of, and there was content to actually back up the idea that they were the same alignment, i would not have been concerned with this matter.

now for clarification, no i don't think plague is scum, his play leaves no indication that he is scum imo, but i can be wrong, so i really don't wanna leave something that easy for scum to take advantage of.

[No Elimination]

also before i right up my post i'm just gonna do this lest i forget.

##unvote

[No Elimination]

wow my english is so good.

[Sham]

New BK went through a lot of effort only to get some things wrong (King wasn't self metaing) or make weird interpretations of posts in general. Annoys me but I'm like 95% confident I know this player and they tend to be weird like this. Plus I don't really see the scum intent in this since people will point out that stuff is wrong? Fucking BK.

They made an entire post reading through the game, but their primary scumreads were on me and Propeller Knight (or at least from what I can tell; maybe it's just their style of writing but I had a hard time parsing through what exactly were their scumreads until they elaborated on it in a later post) with very little actually there on Plague Knight.

Having read BK's post, King is pretty much wrong here. High level reading skills in this game. BK can't read, King can't read, Mole can't read, I can't read. Game is hard.

I have faked confrontational anger before, just more in-game related than the personal kind of personal confrontation Black has put out. I'm like 90% sure I found out who Black was which really doesn't help because the moodiness could've come from either alignment.

Not sure if I like this response. "It could be faked but even if it's real it doesn't matter" in a sense, yeah? How confident are you in your meta read, considering you'd said you didn't know the player behind the first BK in the before I asked you about them?

It's like they were constantly around but kept themselves from posting and only posted short snippets far in between.

You might have this feeling because it's sorta true? It's more that I'm doing other things rather than just devoting all my time to mafia, so usually I read things and don't post since I don't wanna spam one liners. If you think you've figured out who I am and are trying to meta me that's gonna be a bad time, though. People are surprisingly bad at that.

Mole, the logic is this. Scum don't want to make townies look town, especially over minor things ED1 like townslips, so why would King point that out as scum? As far as I'm concerned, it would be to make a scumbuddy look good. The only reason a scum would want to remove a townread from themselves is to distance themselves from a scumbuddy/look even townier as part of some gambit. The thing is I think all these scenarios are very contrived. I also think Tinker and King have individually been fairly townie?

Also, do you have any other reads? You apparently aren't even scumreading me but this is all you've talked about lately.

The first Treasure bugged me a little but the second one has been a bit better, I think? I don't agree with his non-Mole reads. I feel worse about him than Propeller/King/Tinker/Black tho. Probably Spectre too?

[Sham]

Also, I don't think it's 100% that they're the same alignment, and I wouldn't push a lynch for that reason alone. Nothing is certain in mafia and new information should always cause you to reevaluate reads.

[No Elimination]

ok, thank you for clarifying that was my major concern with the matter. like i wasn't sure if you were convinced that they were the same alignment and i missed something or more importantly you were gonna use that as a basis for a case on either of them.

[No Elimination]

also the SPL starts in five minutes and i kinda wanna watch it so just like one liners about everybody.

BK: original player was kinda scummy to start, less scummy right before he subbed, new player is nullish, i guess. like i wanna more content before i make i get a solid read on the slot. i dont think we got a lot of solid content from the original and we have one(?) post from the new. null for now, nothing really to base a solid read on.

KK: shaky early game logic, transitioned into a very strong game in my opinion, i can see effort in each post, a couple points that i disagree on, buy i will address those later. overall solid townread.

MK: obviously the required SK in the 9 person game.

PLK: most of my problems with them come from me not reading things right or from just miscommunication. i feel pretty confident in a townread on this slot. they shown effort.

(before i get shit for being such an ass about a wording conflict on a townread, i dont give a shit. i will play the way i play)

TIK: i don't see the point of the treasure focus in his last post. especially because it seems to be the majority of his content. one thing i don't like is the first response to treasure. he brings up problems he has with treasures actions during the KK TIK interactions, if i read that correctly, but why not bring that up during the interaction. why bring it up only after the guy subbed out. and i don't get the vote, are you voting the original treasure, or the new treasure. because you're reason seems to be why the original is scummy, and just like a one liner about the new treasure. that doesn't make sense to me, because the original wasn't obvscum, and you don't seem to be judging the new one as you should in my opinion. highest scum read right now.

PoK: I will talk about him later, when theres more than one post to go off of. yeah the post has stuff to look at, but i don't really have the time right now.

PRK: i feel like i should have a solid read. i dont know why i just dont. theire play reminds me of my usual play, which is not indicative of alignment, and realize how annoying that it is now. null cause i don't really have any opinion on them.

SK: yep, solid content, good reads imo, easily town to me.

TRK: pretty much just see the points about black knight for the original. i don't feel there was a lot of content from them so i don't feel there is any reason that they should affect my current read. so new one, i don't agree with their reads. i know so surprising. but i do see effort and i do see genuine thought into his reads, so im ok with that. null / probably closer to town.

i know i only have one scum read right now, which isnt very good and i will be looking over my null reads once the spl ends. because right now fanatic might actually drop a game, and it might be to fucking stars. that should not happen.

[No Elimination]

before i forget.

## Vote: Tinker Knight

[Olivier]

Not sure if I like this response. "It could be faked but even if it's real it doesn't matter" in a sense, yeah?

How did you come to this conclusion? I find it hard to see this as anything other than putting words in my mouth since I'm fairly certain that the message was straightforward:

"I thought it was faked because I have done that before, but if it is X player behind the account, then the anger outburst makes sense and it would've happened regardless of alignment".

It took a long time to figure out who they were since I'm certain that I have literally never played with them before. The fact that they continued to be equally angry when they posted again around 10 hours later helped, as well as them being sporadically online on their regular account and checking the mafia subforum and game when they very rarely come around to begin with. I'm certain enough to bank on it despite having recently botched my meta read on Mole so that should be enough proof of conviction.

Also confused why you chastise Black Knight for not reading correctly when King using self meta is right there.

[spoiler=Re:removing a townread]

The only reason a scum would want to remove a townread from themselves is to distance themselves from a scumbuddy/look even townier as part of some gambit.

Since this logic is getting this much coverage at this point of the game, let me add that it's completely wrong. If I were scum being townread over a blatantly bad reason early in the game, I would make sure to point it out, and in fact would make sure to point it out before anybody else. The townread is going to get disputed by somebody else anyways because the reasons for it are bad, so I might as well be the one to dispute it so that I'd look town for good play.

I would very much like to see at least a few of those one-liner posts. Not spamming the thread is one thing, but posting only at key intervals is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum and it has been hard to tell what you're thinking and why.

[No Elimination]

i intentionally played against my meta though. also who is that last line addressed to?

[Olivier]

Upon re-reading my own post I can see how you could have thought that. Maybe.

I am assuming that the emotion outburst was genuine, in any case.

[Olivier]

It's all aimed at Plague.

I would've liked your reads post to be a bit less lazy but will postpone comments until that sports event is over and you get a chance to voice the rest of your opinions.

[Refakitty³]

Also, I don't think it's 100% that they're the same alignment, and I wouldn't push a lynch for that reason alone. Nothing is certain in mafia and new information should always cause you to reevaluate reads.

Thanks for the inspiring inspiration!

I can totally appreciate any scepticism around my slot, it's bit a bit of a bumpy ride! I'm unsure what to think of Treasure's comment about effort and townieness, I've seen scum put a lot of effort in, and if it's null and waffly, it doesn't really do much other than make it look like you're contributing. I'm getting a little baffled by Plague still, I mean they're putting effort in, but I'm not feeling any power in the responses, they seem more like asking questions for the sake of it than trying to find anything too meaningful.

The comment about King making people look town, scum need to have townreads too. I can see the line of logic, but there are definitely reasons scum would want to do that, like looking towny for instance!

Mole's posting format really messes with my eyes, but I shall do my best to survive! I'm getting really mixed messages, the paragraph provided and the "but Plague's not scum at all... but they might be!" is a massive contradiction. It's alright not to have a definite read, but don't massively commit but then say that you could be wrong and oh well. I'm kinda putting Mole up there with my scumreads. I know it sounds weird based on a single post but it really bothered me.

It would be cool, get it, I'm hilarious, to see Polar post again. As other people have with me, it's really hard to form a solid opinion on someone who isn't there. The first post wasn't bad at all, but it's not exactly contemporary.

[Sham]

Spectre, that's not what BK was referring to by the townslip comment. BK thought that King's saying Tinker made a townslip was King saying that King made a townslip.

And yeah, it's possible scum did something that has no benefit to scum to look town. I don't think that's the case at the moment, though.

[Olivier]

I see what you mean there now, mea culpa for not following all of the links.

Kind of puzzled by your trust in Tinker, were they perhaps one of the signups marked as tentative before the game started?

[Prims]

Tinker's sign-up was tentative, but the Tinker playing the game is not the Tinker who signed up tentatively.

[Sham]

Kind of puzzled by your trust in Tinker, were they perhaps one of the signups marked as tentative before the game started?

Huh?

[Olivier]

You said you thought they were just busy, I figured it might be because some of the signups were tentative (read: people who might not have a lot of time for the game) and Tinker could've been one of them. That's cleared up now.

[No Elimination]

phone posting, my powers down and i don't feel like making a full post on my phone, sorry i'll hopefully get one out tomorrow.