Shin Megami Tensei Mafia The Second- Day 3

[Olivier]

Hey cutiefly, could you give your thoughts on Best Girl and Bast? In case you need them, ISOs are here.

Santa, where is the post you promised? Looking forward for Tetsuo's post as well.

[No Elimination]

'hokay, first off, I agree Cutiefly claim seems legit, would not support lynch there for sure.

Camilla seems pretty legit so far, actively posting, giving opinions, etc. In response to their comment about my vote on Brexit, I never specifically said that my vote was for pressure because that would kinda ruin the point. If I'd been like "Lol my vote is because I wanna see how they react with a couple of votes on them" it would do nothing. It was originally an RVS vote, but then I left it there for a while to try and see if anything would happen. Clearly nothing did but that'll happen sometimes.

Best Girl... Yeah I can see this vote. They're really doing nothing tbh. They basically straight up admit that Brexit hasn't been towny (saying he's blending into the background, etc), point out they (BG) are not as good as other people, and then vote Sharp because they voted someone that they just said wasn't acting in a towny manner. Just because there are other worse people doesn't mean it isn't bad.

Not sure about Azure. Camilla, you said that the way they were aggressive was townie. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that? I honestly don't know how I feel about Azure, I need more content before I figure that out I think.

For now,

##Vote: Best Girl

Lots of inactivity so far but I'll see if I can figure anything out about others.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I am a 2-shot (something). Do we think a Motivator can co-exist with this? I don't feel great about it!

[Marisa Kirisame]

Best Girl is guilty of the same things as Brexit (who I'm still sad to see go -I hope things go well for you!). He calls out Sharp for lackluster content as his only content.

##Unvote
##Vote: YHVH

I'm sorry, but I really don't like your cutiefly vote. There's no conviction behind it; it looks like a vote you make unwillingly 10 minutes away from deadline, rather than after a 24 hour extension is announced! It looks like you're trying to make cutie fit as scum based on their actions instead of drawing a conclusion from them, if that makes sense.

I actually don't like cutie's claim because of my own and I don't like the complete non-effort they make to examine the person they thought they were voting. There's only one post there and it's not that long!

[Rain Nijika]

I actually don't like cutie's claim because of my own and I don't like the complete non-effort they make to examine the person they thought they were voting. There's only one post there and it's not that long!

I don't understand that, you're claiming 2-shot [something], but asking us to accept that your role probably wouldn't in the game alongside cutiefly's? If you want to push that, give more detail? As for her examining YHVH, she did note his one post before, as Camilla pointed out. Problem is, she said he was the only one to need a ton of pressure over the other RVS/confirmation-only players, without explaining why, and she didn't actually vote. Not good.

[Kamina]

Alright, this might be a multi-post that might take a while. Going from the bottom up I guess.

I am a 2-shot (something). Do we think a Motivator can co-exist with this? I don't feel great about it!

There's a lot of different roles considering that there are 15 players. My character is specifically Nalagiri.

I would hope that a game with a Motivator would have at least one limited use role to balance the power.

Hey cutiefly, could you give your thoughts on Best Girl and Bast? In case you need them, ISOs are here.

Santa, where is the post you promised? Looking forward for Tetsuo's post as well.

Best Girl hasn't been that present. And as such, I agree with whoever said that calling out Brexit is pretty hypocritical.

Bast has been pretty good at explaining themselves. I don't have an issue with anything Bast has posted.

[Kamina]

YHVH would need pressure over Bolt/Tetsuo because he used red font to start off with, and YHVH is typically a villain in SMT. Not a great logic on my part honestly.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I don't understand that, you're claiming 2-shot [something], but asking us to accept that your role probably wouldn't in the game alongside cutiefly's? If you want to push that, give more detail? As for her examining YHVH, she did note his one post before, as Camilla pointed out. Problem is, she said he was the only one to need a ton of pressure over the other RVS/confirmation-only players, without explaining why, and she didn't actually vote. Not good.

If I decide to do anything tonight and get motivated, how does that work? It's strange and also seems out of line powerwise with my role which is weaker than Motivator!

I saw that they posted about YHVH before, but they didn't update their thoughts on the most recent post when they dismissed the read which is pretty odd. Did they even read the post?

[Kamina]

You would probably lose both shots, but I don't know the exact specifics of what my role does.

As for YHVH's case on me, those are valid complaints. I have been a bit aggressive, but I did it with the primary source of putting pressure on a few different people, and I am honestly a person who has opinions that change at the drop of a hat.

[Rain Nijika]

If I decide to do anything tonight and get motivated, how does that work? It's strange and also seems out of line powerwise with my role which is weaker than Motivator!

I saw that they posted about YHVH before, but they didn't update their thoughts on the most recent post when they dismissed the read which is pretty odd. Did they even read the post?

...You'd have one of your shots work as a double action? I don't see how that's so strange.

They did, that's why they're not voting them now?

[Olivier]

I really doubt cutiefly is scum. I think there are ways she could have lied that sound more credible than prioritizing someone over posting red font.

I agree with Upbeat about YHVH, although I don't find his reasoning that strong. Null leaning scum, so I'd be ok with that lynch. @Upbeat: Do you think YHVH and cutiefly can be scum together? I think motivator and a 2-shot role could coexist but it really depends on the role you have.

@Bast: You said that my vote on cutiefly over Best Girl was weird, yet now you say I'm being legit now. What made you change your opinion?

Best Girl is guilty of the same things as Brexit (who I'm still sad to see go -I hope things go well for you!). He calls out Sharp for lackluster content as his only content.

I disagree. Brexit replaced out because he was busy, and his post was way earlier in the game than Best Girl's. The content by itself is also worse, as Brexit voted Sharp for making a jokepost too late in the phase (which I recall you did as well), and Best Girl ignored what Sharp had said about Brexit to say that Sharp's vote made no sense.

[No Elimination]

Camilla: You explained yourself? I may not agree with what you did, but you gave actual reasoning behind it and while I may not have played it the way you did, that doesn't mean what you did wasn't valid.

[C. C.]

Okay, I am home and now able to post- sorry for the delay. A post will be coming up in a few.

[Aizen]

I believe Cutie's claim, ##Unvote: Cutiefly. I don't have another lynch target atm.

@Upeat:

I don't really get what you're saying here. I only voted for the person who seemed the most suspicious to me at the time.

[Cú Chulainn]

I am a 2-shot (something). Do we think a Motivator can co-exist with this? I don't feel great about it!

Uhmm, sorry if I'm wrong, but was this really neded?

I feel that it was rather rash to reveal this, espcially with such a big claim already made, I think.

I mean, try to see it in a branching path way;

1) If you were Town, by deductive process the Mafia will maybe attempt to target you, but it was such a weak and vague claim, that an hypothetical Town Doctor wouldn't protect you! It would be a wasted role for no reason, if you get what I'm saying... :/

2) You're Mafia, the towns decides to test cutiefly's claim by selecting you. You could lie and say nothing happened, then get cutiefly lynched (assuming she's Town) and rug it off by implying something external happened, like a redirecting role, or blocking! And even if you say the truth, a motivator night is wasted, and the Mafia gets an advantage! :(

I'm very sorry Upbeat, but it just seems like such an out of place and harmful claim to Town...

[C. C.]

A few things come to mind as I'm browsing through the thread (starting from around page 3~4):

1. I feel as though Hiiro is sufficiently (and has been since the start of the game) vote-sitting on Cutiefly. While there eventually becomes (somewhat?) of a reason to do so, I don't sense any interest in Hiiro's post to contributing thoughts elsewhere, which makes the line of focus seem a bit tunneled from this slot. I'd hesitate to label it as laziness in terms of easy coasting on Cutie (and depending on how Cutie flips, could easily be a scummish tactic), but at this point I don't have much else to read from this slot. What are your thoughts on the rest of the player base, Hiiro?

2. I dislike the innate timing of Brexit's subbing out. While I understand that IRL/other matters can clog up a player's ability to play, I know it to also be a scum tactic to try and pan off discussion/suspect from their slot (at least temporarily) in lieu of being absent and someone else picking up the pieces. Unsure of how to read this slot, as (looking back on the ISO) I don't sense a whole lot of legitimate effort/scum hunting/activity from Brexit's slot prior to the sub request, which is making me lean more towards scum on this slot than not.

3. Santa: There's a difference between "assuming scum will play perfectly" and them doing things that are 100% against all common sense in the simplest of scum-tactics. No one wants to paint themselves out like that in any sense of the word, so painfully obvious in terms of defense/covering for someone right out the gate. I chose to ask for thoughts on the situation because it lets me get a feel of what the rest of you guys find viable (and not) in terms of what scum can/will and/or won't be willing to take in terms of risks and interactions with the rest of the non-scum player base.

4. Sharp's vote on Brexit feels... too easy? And too reactive towards Brexit's posts/comments, in a bad way. That, and looking at Sharp's ISO, there's almost nothing else aside from comments on Brexit, which is reading much like Hiiro's ISO on Cutie. Don't really like this slot atm.

5. I can see the case(s) on Best Girl, and I do find it strange that, once again, there's only one person that seems to harbor their attention. While I generally don't mind people voting and prodding for answers (as it prompts more discussion and progress), I don't feel a whole lot coming out of the Sharp vote, and this slot just feels lazy (in a scummy way) to me currently.

6. B- Cup Camilla: At the point that I'd made my other post, I wasn't interested in forcing on more pressure with a vote at the time- more collaboration and conversation is what I was looking for (which was garnered- thank you for the responses to those who answered), which lets me get a better read on people before I start throwing my vote on random people who ping me one way or the other early on.

7. Cutiefly's ISO seems to be everywhere, and not in a great way. Half of the posts seem irrelevant to actual content (IE. the RP post comment(s)). The post wrt YHVH needing pressure almost seemed like you were pointing fingers at the slot, but then applied little to no pressure whatsoever yourself? A bit hypocritical if you ask me, and attempting to possibly redirect attention upon inactive slots perhaps?

> The claiming kinda came out pretty fast, which is surprising, and honestly, shocking. Why are you throwing out information like that, when you weren't even at the lynch noose? Yes, you had some suspect, but with the extension, there would be no one crazy enough to turbo without warrant and you weren't even under a massive amount of voting pressure compared to several others in the game? This affects me a bit in reading your claim, not for the role itself but the way in which you just threw out the information in self-defense under the mild pressure of votes on you.

> The vote on Bolt is pretty bad, especially when you combine it with the timing of your claim post. Bolt "flaking" is basically on the same level as YHVH, you even insist that YHVH needs MORE pressure, and yet you drop the vote on Bolt? And why are you only concerning yourself (at this time of the post(s)) with the inactive players of the game? Easiest means of voting, and one of the laziest IMO.

8. I don't feel much of any conflict of Motivator vs a random "two-shot yada yada" claim at this point (and whether EITHER of those claims are true at this point is also anyone's guess), and I feel as though using that alone to justify whether there COULD be one or not is poor judgement/means to validate voting for someone over alone.

9. YHVH's ISO is as poor as a few others I've mentioned already. Poor voting/unvoting, seems oddly fickle, and once again is an ISO that seems tunneled on one person only.

10. I feel like Bast's vote on Best Girl, while fair in the case on her, is a bit easy? The reasoning behind the vote (inactivity/flaking) can easily be placed on other player slots so far (IE. YHVH, Fly, and Bolt), so what makes Best Girl the worst of the inactive lurkers?

11. Azure: While I do not view this slot nearly as badly as the ones above, I dislike the notion of him asking Upbeat to "give more detail" wrt roles/effects they may have. This smells mildly of information/role-fishing, and divulging more information needlessly is asking for scum to capitalize on things as a result. I'd advise to refrain from doing so, if that was your intention.

12. Cutiefly: "YHVH would need pressure over Bolt/Tetsuo"? Did I miss something, or did I just happen to land next to Bolt in your books? Unsure of where this notion/comment came from, or the logic behind it.

Tier 1 Scum: Hiiro/YHVH/Sharp [Little to no meaningful content, too much focus on one target, and poor votes/cases to back them up.]

Tier 2 Scum: Cutie [More active than the formers, but highly questionable reactions/actions and poor voting- unsure of my read on this slot is due more to poor gameplay than anything.] / Brexit [Distasteful activity level, and the subbing out was done poorly. Only putting the slot on a lower tier due to the subbing issue, and still warrants high suspect.]

##Vote: Hiiro

Vote will be subject to change between the top three if/when responses are sufficiently given.

[No Elimination]

10. I feel like Bast's vote on Best Girl, while fair in the case on her, is a bit easy? The reasoning behind the vote (inactivity/flaking) can easily be placed on other player slots so far (IE. YHVH, Fly, and Bolt), so what makes Best Girl the worst of the inactive lurkers?

What? I'm not voting them for being inactive. I'm voting them because their reasoning for their vote was bad and the fact that we have limited time and really should consider starting to consolidate on something.

[C. C.]

Oops, I'm dumb. I forgot to put in Best Girl, for as little as I saw in her ISO.

Would probably stick her at the end list of Tier 1 (since she also parallels with them in terms of reasonings/scum reading), so remedying my last statement of my last post:

Vote will be subject to change between the top three FOUR if/when responses are sufficiently given.

[Refakitty³]

Going through ISOs right now. Irl came up.

##Unvote: Cutiefly

##Vote: Upbeat

Felt like trying to push the lynch further without actually thinking cutiefly is scummy. Case in point they lynch YHVH or whatever the alias is for, shocker, laziness. Looking through Upbeat's ISO it's just making easy votes on people who haven't talked much and I really don't like the claim. Gonna have a full reads post soon.

[C. C.]

What? I'm not voting them for being inactive. I'm voting them because their reasoning for their vote was bad and the fact that we have limited time and really should consider starting to consolidate on something.

Sure the vote sucked and all- we all know it. However, vote sitting as a result of "we're near the end of the day, let's consolidate" especially following a requested extension that was given to us? I'd much rather see some effort put forth in scum hunting and a more meaningful vote as a whole than what was just presented. That's what I meant by it being an easy vote- anyone can do it, and multiple people already have. Give us something new to chew on.

[Sham]

@Best Girl: Do you think that feeling that something is not right is not a proper scumtell? What do you think is scummy about it?

Best Girl... Yeah I can see this vote. They're really doing nothing tbh. They basically straight up admit that Brexit hasn't been towny (saying he's blending into the background, etc), point out they (BG) are not as good as other people, and then vote Sharp because they voted someone that they just said wasn't acting in a towny manner. Just because there are other worse people doesn't mean it isn't bad.

It's ridiculously lazy and makes it look like you're putting a vote down early in case of a bandwagon/so you don't get called out.

I think that I explained my vote well!.

Maybe you think I didn't elaborate on him, right?

If that's so, well this is what I think.

Vrexit only posted short, very brief and slightly aggressive. And that was the weird part, I it wasn't really attacking by himself, but rather, "backsitting voting" (I'm not sure how to call it, apologies in advance) kinda like being behind someone else's engage, without having to explain much. Not sure if I explained myself, but I hope this is good enough for you :)

Your initial reasoning for the vote wasn't satisfactory, but this is better.

##Unvote

On terms of scuminess: Best Girl > Bast = Cutiefly > Bolt > Fly Amanita = YHVH > Tether = Santa = Brexit > Hiiro = Tetsuo > Upbeat > Sharp > Azure Blood

##Unvote

##Vote: Cutiefly

This will probably be useless as we need 4 votes more to hammer, but still worth a try.

##Unvote

##Vote: Best Girl

The extension is appreciated but we shouldn't relax. People should state lynch priorities. The people I am ok with lynching are Best Girl > Bast = Cutiefly > Bolt. Nobody else unless something changes.

Voting Best Girl would have accomplished nothing without a phase extension. Instead, voting Cutiefly (who I also suspect) could have lead to a lynch. Very unlikely, but even if there is just a small chance of things going well, I will take it.

...?

idk maybe you can argue that we weren't guaranteed a phase extension but i think you would have been perfectly fine putting a vote on me instead of cutiefly? like i can't see a situation where we wouldn't have gotten a time extension, short of nobody coming online for the 4 hours after your post,

I am the Town Motivator, and I allow my target to use their ability twice.

I haven't voted because I thought that I had an active vote on YHVH, but I'm glad that they posted.

At this point, I cannot make accurate assumptions of alignment, but Bolt's flaking is really suspicious to me. Brexit at least subbed out.

##Vote: Bolt

there's more people that have been flaking (see: Tether) - hell, isn't Tether worse for only making a confirmation post when day discussion already started, as compared to Bolt who hasn't appeared since RVS?

---

I think Cutiefly's fine, tbh - there's about 14 hours left in phase now, her claim came 8 hours ago, placing it at 22 hours to phase end. Given our... usual tendencies, I understand how the claim might feel early, but it's better than 22 minutes before phase end.

What I actually don't like is Upbeat claiming a 2-shot - what motivation is there for claiming such a role aside from directing suspicion towards the motivator claim (lul)? His feel towards Cutie prior to this claim is leaning towards town - did your entire perception of Cutie change because of this claim? Like, is this claim the only thing making you think Cutie is scummy? Because surely, if you were keen to get Cutie lynched because you think her claim conflicts with your own, there's better ways to do so than claiming on D1.

---

going to try to type up something else but i'm heading off soon; apologies if next post is a bit... truncated.

[Sham]

idk maybe you can argue that we weren't guaranteed a phase extension but i think you would have been perfectly fine putting a vote on me instead of cutiefly? like i can't see a situation where we wouldn't have gotten a time extension, short of nobody coming online for the 4 hours after your post,

make that comma at the end a period

[Sham]

YHVH doesn't make me feel good atm - Votes Cutie, sees the cutie claim, immediately backs off, has no other lynch preferences. ???

---

Azure feels like a full-on tunnel on Cutie from like, his 2nd post onward, sans his most recent post. Doesn't feel very healthy to me.

---

what's up with Bast complaining about RVS after making an RVS vote LUL

posting a lot but i don't see any solid reads from him aside from a lot of indecisiveness regarding Azure and believing Cutie's claim.

---

Camilla is active but I can't read much into town or scum intent behind the content in the posts. I'm willing to lean town because it's a good thing to promote discussion on D1, but this could change pretty easily.

---

tether is fuckin rapier

---

Hiiro's also tunneling p hard on Cutie, and another thing I really don't like is keeping the vote on cutie after believing her claim. Like, if you think the claim is town, but you still want a response, do you need to keep your vote on Cutie (who, again, you are townreading)? Do you have any other scumreads that you could vote while still prodding Cutie? It's bordering on the excessive.

---

fly = rapier2

bolt = rapier3

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having 2 players called Tether and Tetsuo is confusing af

I disagree with some of Tetsuo's points (I think Brexit's subbing out is unfortunate, but not scummy; Cutiefly's claim) but I'm liking the discussion so far.

---

(now I remember the acronym I was looking for!)

this sounds like omgus, don't see the point of keeping your vote on someone that obviously won't be around and needs a sub (like the actual reasoning [sheeping] is much better here if Brexit is around to respond).

now that i've actually gone and read more behind the circumstances behind this vote i might just retcon whatever i said earlier on regarding Sharp. my bad. gimme a while to think on this because ironically now i'm not ok with everything except the enhanced reasoning behind the vote.

---

hi santa for christmas i'd like a post ^^

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As said earlier, I'm not liking Upbeat because of this roleclaim which is... even more out of left field than Cutie's. Like, it's not even a direct 1v1 (unlike, say, TPP, where there were 2 couriers and if JBCWK had claimed in response to Paper D1 it would have been understandable).

##Vote: Upbeat

[No Elimination]

what's up with Bast complaining about RVS after making an RVS vote LUL

RVS isn't terrible in and of itself. It's terrible when it's all that's happening and then no one talks for 12 hours. That's what I was complaining about, not about RVS itself. RVS serves no point if people don't do anything with it and never move past it.

[All Might]

To the people commenting on me leaving my vote on cutie, I did specifically say I wasn't moving my vote off of them until they responded to my questions, since I stated that I haven't been around.

##Unvote:

Now in response to the statements made by Azure, I'm not planning on stating my thoughts on the entire game but out of the people that posted and the information at hand, for a large portion of this day phase I did not have many scum reads. With a lot of inactive players I had very little scum reads. My high secondary scum read came after Best girl made their voting post, recently there has been more content from them, but I have yet to divulge into the information within that post. I plan on doing this shortly. Any scum reads after this would be what I feel are more null reads than scum reads so I don't feel as if I should be required to state them as of the current moment. There will be more info divulged in my next post more than likely.

Also I feel that I should state this regarding motivators, generally it kicks into action the following night it was used, not the current night. I will be back later after I read up a bit more with another vote as I wish to read Best girls posts.