Persona 3 Mafia - Game Cancelled - Mass Destronktion

[Terrador]

THERE ARE SO MANY SHORT POSTS IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS GAME ITS LIKE A TERRIBLE ROLE-PLAY WHERE EVERYONE POSTS ONE-LINERS.

ISO, man. All day, every day.

In other news, ##REQUEST ALL THE VOTE-TOTAL because this shit is whack, yo. Repeat it 'til it happens!!

[Green Poet]

Okay, so shortly before FFM died he seemed to randomly vote Refa, and said afterwards that it was because Refa had been keeping up his jokes/joke votes for longer than he should've. It could be him trying to preemptively distance himself from scum!Refa.

wrt Refa specifically, now...

Look at it this way, he could've just chosen not to mention anything about him being third party at all. By doing so, he opens himself up to more suspicion than if he did not. So I'm not bothered if he doesn't want to reveal his wincon.

SB tried to pass it off as a joke, and only elaborated on his claim seriously when I and Wen asked him to. I don't think one could say that his claim was very voluntary, or that it ensures much about the truth of his claim.

I don't like how Sky Paladin is STILL focusing on SB because it's dumb because SB is an ITP and even if he theoretically was like the SK it'd be better to focus on lynching Mafia for this day really.

Refa doesn't want SB to fullclaim, but is confident that SB is indeed ITP? His post gives me the impression that his mind's already made up about SB, and wants to avoid everyone else finding out about SB's role if possible.

That being said, I do also think that Paladin's tunneling is bad. Enough's been said about that; I'm going to wait for him to post again before commenting more on it.

Also that Junpei guy should definitely target me. He's my favorite townie!

...Huh? Are you implying that you know something about Junpei's ability?

I'm not sold on anyone yet, but my lynch priority is Paladin > SB > Refa >>>>> Junko at this time.

Junko's sort of hanging there for me right now because of how generally directionless yet frequent his posts have been.

[Junk]

2. He said it was because people would take advantage of him. Eventually I got tired of this squabble and dropped the issue for now.

[Terrador]

ALRIGHT ROLLIN' THROUGH THE ISOS

GON' HUNT DOWN SOME SCUM

FEED THEM TO BIRD.

RAMBLE AT POSTER NAME

CONCLUSIONS AT END ONCE I'VE LOOKED AT ERRYBODY

NOW YOU KNOW HOW TO MAKE SENSE O' DIS POST.

CUTOFF: Eury's wall post. I might catch some posts after that if they're notable, but most of that I'll talk about after this wall, for the sake of my own sanity.

I will put a bolded @ by your name if there's something I specifically am asking you about.

@Junko Enoshima: Taking RVS too seriously is classic newb move, town or otherwise. I'm not going to judge on that--Lord knows how much I despise RVS. However, there are a couple of things that make me uneasy. This seems a little too hasty to be town, and this line about "automatically dismiss the fakeclaim"--I don't follow it. What do you mean, Junko?

"It was oretty [sic] hard to come up with reasoning" is awfully shady, as well; reasoning should be the foundation of votes, not their justification. Finally, Junko, in this post, were you trying to eliminate people as probable candidates for vote-switcher? I don't consider that scummy in and of itself, I just am not wholly certain what you were trying to accomplish.

BigBangMeteor: He's posted too little for me to get a good read. I doubt he's being inactive for the sake of hiding. to the extent that I personally dismiss the possibility. Not sure why he thinks a day SK would have no reason to shoot FFM, but I think he's assuming that they'd want to wait for a better target to present themselves, conserving it until the end of the Day when they have more information.

Marth/Bluedoom: Doesn't waffle and hasn't accomplished much, but I haven't seen any faulty thinking from him yet, either. Too early to say, but at the moment I'm leaning townie.

Serious Bananas: Charlie, you rat bastard, you had to shake everything up from the get-go, didn't you? In all seriousness, I think the claim early on is confirmation that he's not explicitly town or mafia, and wants to not get burned in a fire once he gets copped. That said, I'm calling bull on a win condition that doesn't threaten town or mafia, but isn't plain survivor. If it isn't just living, it has to be something that helps someone. I suspect this is an at least vaguely pro-town win condition, but it's just that--a suspicion.. I like his logic, for the most part, and I'm not really worried about him right now.

@Wen: I actually don't see anything suspicious here. He probed SB, and I think he acted appropriate there, and called out a lurker (who wound up being scum FWIW), and really had no substance to do much else with. I'd like to see another IRL day's posting out of him before I call it, one way or another. I'd like to know why you expect this user won't roleclaim, though.

Breezykins: Hasn't done much, and seemed to have preconceptions about what the vote-switcher does, as pointed out by Green Poet. Seems scummy, but there really isn't remotely sufficient evidence for me to feel confident about it.

@Mitsuki: I haven't had any reason to suspect her at this point. She's been very observant, and has had something constructive, if not outright important, to say with pretty much every post. Also had Breezy's back after apparent preconceptions he had, even though I can't pin down where, specifically, she said beforehand that there could be a random factor. Care to point out where? Also, just for reference: quietly claimed doublevote here, unless I'm mistaken. Anyone who was awake at that time able to lend credence to [or discredit] that?

Green Poet: Seems to be using good logic and hasn't done anything that would catch my eye. Also expressed suspicion of a proven mafioso and hasn't done anything I'd consider scummy. The new post is also an astute point.

Refa: I know the guy, and he's really laid-back and generally tough to frazzle. Don't think I've ever seen him genuinely surprised or mad. Given that: I haven't seen him contribute jack, besides a recommendation that a spent dayvig should come forward. That said, he seems to be treating the game pretty casually, and this could just be him goofing about and trying to get reads before he gets serious. I can't get a read on the guy.

Eurykins: I like the wall post. I like the conversation with Junko; very constructive. Active before and after (but not during) votal shenanigans, but that won't even begin to seem suspicious to me unless other scum evidence surfaces. Probably just a townie with a busy day or an absent mind, like... some people. *quiet coughing intensifies*

Shinori: Null read. Not being around until today was expected and doesn't at all influence my perception of him this game.

Sky_Paladin: Where do I begin? He claims to be drunk from his first non-signup post until his last. Says he's going to bed, then calls SB out on "not hunting scum" (bullshit) an hour later. I can't blame him for suspecting SB... but holy shit that tunnel vision. Hasn't questioned a single other player all game long.

Euklyd: Was around for a bit, and hasn't accomplished anything. There's one thing I see that's somewhat damning, though: he was active before the vote shenanigans, and his profile's private. I'm suspicious, but there's just too little evidence in place.

---

With all this said, Sky_Paladin is my top lynch priority right now. I'll go ahead and drop down the vote now. Carrion, ladies and gentlemen.

##Publicly Accuse Sky_Paladin

In other news, ##Request Vote Totals once more. We absofuckinglutely needs to know how the votes are placed if we don't wind up lynching the one responsible very soon. That is all.

[Terrador]

Oh, hey! I had an idea.

As anyone approaches hammer, or as deadline approaches, make sure to Unvote, then vote again! I'm not sure if this will help minimize the power of the vote changer, but there's literally no reason not to do so, unless you're trying to get people to forget whom you're voting for (s-s-s-scummy much?)

[Junk]

So just to clairfy, If we get 5 votes on someone this phase ends?

[Green Poet]

So just to clairfy, If we get 5 votes on someone this phase ends?

If we get 7, then the phase immediately ends and people have to stop posting as soon as the seventh vote, or "hammer," is cast.

If we get 5, the phase doesn't end, but that voted person will be lynched when the day naturally ends.

As anyone approaches hammer, or as deadline approaches, make sure to Unvote, then vote again! I'm not sure if this will help minimize the power of the vote changer, but there's literally no reason not to do so, unless you're trying to get people to forget whom you're voting for (s-s-s-scummy much?)

Good idea.

##Unvote

for now, just to be safe.

[Junk]

##Unvote

[Shinori]

##Vote: Sky_Paladin

This guys just needs to go.

[Eurykins]

Oh, hey! I had an idea.

As anyone approaches hammer, or as deadline approaches, make sure to Unvote, then vote again! I'm not sure if this will help minimize the power of the vote changer, but there's literally no reason not to do so, unless you're trying to get people to forget whom you're voting for (s-s-s-scummy much?)

I agree with this notion, especially if the votals/votes get all jumbled/swapped around again. Granted, we should be able to see if/when changes happen (so long as the mods keep up with the votals during whatever times said votes/votals get moved around), but this way it also remains clear to us and everyone else where the votes are actually meant to be (and prevents mis-hammers/mislynches due to votes randomly piling up on someone without us knowing until the last minute).

[charlie_]

SB tried to pass it off as a joke, and only elaborated on his claim seriously when I and Wen asked him to. I don't think one could say that his claim was very voluntary, or that it ensures much about the truth of his claim.

Refa doesn't want SB to fullclaim, but is confident that SB is indeed ITP? His post gives me the impression that his mind's already made up about SB, and wants to avoid everyone else finding out about SB's role if possible.

I literally said I was ITP and was being serious about it before any prompting. I'm pretty sure I stated that my wincon featured more than just surviving as soon as Marth asked me. I would have literally have made up a plan to claim ITP without consulting my scumbuddies pretty much right after I woke up. This idea is dumb.

Eurykins, Terrador, Mitsuki and GreenPoet are all likely to be town. Eury and Terra got out massive readslists I don't feel like scum would be able to emulate this early, lol if Mitsuki is scum with that persuader and GreenPoet townslipped with his reactions to the persuader. I feel less happy with Junko after his reactions to the dayvig shot. Sky is still probably mafia. Marth and Euklyd are minor townreads from earlygame posts but need to get back here. I feel like Kopf could be town too just based on him calling the persuader thing a fabricator, when he would know it's role name, but this is kinda weak logic I guess and if neither Sky or Junko flip the persuader role he's probably my next candidate for it.

Terra, I'm pretty sure the vote changer wouldn't be able to act multiple times in one day, so I think you're too paranoid about it.

[charlie_]

Also, forgetting where your vote is isn't a scumtell.

[Terrador]

@Junko Enoshima: Junko, in this post, were you trying to eliminate people as probable candidates for vote-switcher? I don't consider that scummy in and of itself, I just am not wholly certain what you were trying to accomplish.

Junko, would you kindly let me know? I can't quite understand what you were getting at, so while you're here, could we talk about that?

I agree with this notion, especially if the votals/votes get all jumbled/swapped around again. Granted, we should be able to see if/when changes happen (so long as the mods keep up with the votals during whatever times said votes/votals get moved around), but this way it also remains clear to us and everyone else where the votes are actually meant to be (and prevents mis-hammers/mislynches due to votes randomly piling up on someone without us knowing until the last minute).

Y'know, that's a very good point. Didn't think of that, but hey!

I literally said I was ITP and was being serious about it before any prompting. I'm pretty sure I stated that my wincon featured more than just surviving as soon as Marth asked me. I would have literally have made up a plan to claim ITP without consulting my scumbuddies pretty much right after I woke up. This idea is dumb.

Eurykins, Terrador, Mitsuki and GreenPoet are all likely to be town. Eury and Terra got out massive readslists I don't feel like scum would be able to emulate this early, lol if Mitsuki is scum with that persuader and GreenPoet townslipped with his reactions to the persuader. I feel less happy with Junko after his reactions to the dayvig shot. Sky is still probably mafia. Marth and Euklyd are minor townreads from earlygame posts but need to get back here. I feel like Kopf could be town too just based on him calling the persuader thing a fabricator, when he would know it's role name, but this is kinda weak logic I guess and if neither Sky or Junko flip the persuader role he's probably my next candidate for it.

Terra, I'm pretty sure the vote changer wouldn't be able to act multiple times in one day, so I think you're too paranoid about it.

I'm absolutely aware that this is a no-risk, minimal-reward scenario.

In other news: I'm not familiar with what ITP means. Care to let me in on that?

[charlie_]

independent third party

[Junk]

Kind of. I was trying to determine who probably would not be scum as well as find a motive. And that is another piece of evidence against Sky Paladin. He choose SB on the votals or whatever they are called. Sakura Breeze I do not know though. It was a weird decision. Is Sakura extremely dangerous? Is there a role that knows his role? He would have been better off choosing Wen.

[Terrador]

independent third party

...duly noted. Still very curious as to what the specifics of this win condition are, but my gut says you're telling the truth and that Town needn't worry. As far as raw logic goes: I want to reiterate for everyone's benefit that I think the only good reason for someone as experienced as you to claim so early is that you don't want to be roasted alive in the event of an alignment cop targeting you. In and of itself, that's neither good nor bad? Just self-interested play, and reason to believe you're being honest about being neither S.E.E.S nor Nyx.

Kind of. I was trying to determine who probably would not be scum as well as find a motive. And that is another piece of evidence against Sky Paladin. He choose SB on the votals or whatever they are called. Sakura Breeze I do not know though. It was a weird decision. Is Sakura extremely dangerous? Is there a role that knows his role? He would have been better off choosing Wen.

...see, by "choose", do you mean "cast lynch vote for", or "suspect as vote switcher"?

[Refa]

I can only analyze one wall post/post, so skipping Terrador's for now.

Comments on Eury's Wallpost:

-Mentions that Junko is tryhard scum over tryhard town. OK, I mean sure tryhard scum can exist. But none of her examples actually give that impression for me. Like tryhard town does tend to overjustify RVS and be nitpicky. And a null read changing to a scum read isn't really a bad thing.

-Survivors can't win the game on their own?

-I can agree that Sky Paladin could stand to up his play though. Tunneling on an ITP really?

-I don't think waffling is inherently scummy especially in ED1 (referring to your Kopfjager case).

-I don't lurk as scum! Why does everyone think this is a thing, it's not!

Also sheeping Mitsuki's read on Junko. His reactions definitely came across as a townslip.

3.I think it is just Refa's attitude. Seems a bit to relaxed. This is probably how Refa always is but I do not know him enough. But he did not exactly act surprised when the votal was made.

I don't think I was there when it happened?

Okay, so shortly before FFM died he seemed to randomly vote Refa, and said afterwards that it was because Refa had been keeping up his jokes/joke votes for longer than he should've. It could be him trying to preemptively distance himself from scum!Refa.

wrt Refa specifically, now...

That's probably what it was.

...Huh? Are you implying that you know something about Junpei's ability?

Nope, but I know something amazing will happen if he targets me! So he better do that...

Oh, hey! I had an idea.

As anyone approaches hammer, or as deadline approaches, make sure to Unvote, then vote again! I'm not sure if this will help minimize the power of the vote changer, but there's literally no reason not to do so, unless you're trying to get people to forget whom you're voting for (s-s-s-scummy much?)

Dude, the vote changer changed the votes of people who weren't even voting. I don't think that'll help.

[Terrador]

Dude, the vote changer changed the votes of people who weren't even voting. I don't think that'll help.

No cost, minimal reward. Not really a big deal, but I don't see any reason not to, y'know?

[Junk]

...duly noted. Still very curious as to what the specifics of this win condition are, but my gut says you're telling the truth and that Town needn't worry. As far as raw logic goes: I want to reiterate for everyone's benefit that I think the only good reason for someone as experienced as you to claim so early is that you don't want to be roasted alive in the event of an alignment cop targeting you. In and of itself, that's neither good nor bad? Just self-interested play, and reason to believe you're being honest about being neither S.E.E.S nor Nyx.

...see, by "choose", do you mean "cast lynch vote for", or "suspect as vote switcher"?

Oops I meant to try to determine who could NOT be scum. I just hope poly put one third party in. But guys let us think back to persona 3. Were there multiple parties. Not really because Strega was sort of a sub group but wanted the fall. FFM was takaya or whatever his name is. A third party possibility is for that person who loved junpei. I consider her a third party because she was not exactly allied with either. Any other third party ideas anyone?

[Refa]

No cost, minimal reward. Not really a big deal, but I don't see any reason not to, y'know?

It weakens D1 reads when scum can just vote last minute and have no suspicion placed on them. There's a reason turbowagons tend to hurt town more often than not.

[Terrador]

Oops I meant to try to determine who could NOT be scum. I just hope poly put one third party in. But guys let us think back to persona 3. Were there multiple parties. Not really because Strega was sort of a sub group but wanted the fall. FFM was takaya or whatever his name is. A third party possibility is for that person who loved junpei. I consider her a third party because she was not exactly allied with either. Any other third party ideas anyone?

A little early for flavor speculation, don't ya think?

It weakens D1 reads when scum can just vote last minute and have no suspicion placed on them. There's a reason turbowagons tend to hurt town more often than not.

Holy bugger of all, I didn't realize that. I envisioned it as "Unvote => Re-vote Same Person" as lynch approaches, but you have a very good point.

[Refa]

Oops I meant to try to determine who could NOT be scum. I just hope poly put one third party in. But guys let us think back to persona 3. Were there multiple parties. Not really because Strega was sort of a sub group but wanted the fall. FFM was takaya or whatever his name is. A third party possibility is for that person who loved junpei. I consider her a third party because she was not exactly allied with either. Any other third party ideas anyone?

I'm not an ITP...

[Terrador]

Shinori was typing a post, but... now he isn't? Is that a quirk of the forum, or did he have to go, or did he decide to not post after all?

[Eurykins]

-Survivors can't win the game on their own?

-I can agree that Sky Paladin could stand to up his play though. Tunneling on an ITP really?

-I don't think waffling is inherently scummy especially in ED1 (referring to your Kopfjager case).

-I don't lurk as scum! Why does everyone think this is a thing, it's not!

Dude, the vote changer changed the votes of people who weren't even voting. I don't think that'll help.

1. Some can (I've seen some with means of self-protecting themselves on various methods/accounts, redirecting actions away from themselves, etc.), so long as they aren't targeted for lynches/getting shot. That being said, it also certainly doesn't harm a survivor ITP to claim that they aren't anti-town, since all it means is that townies shouldn't concern themselves with said ITP and should focus on other people instead (and so, the whole surviving aspect is now a hell of lot easier for said ITP, as scum killing them is pretty much the only threat he'd have to fear at this point so long as town is not interested in lynching him).

2. I disagree, given the amount Wen/Kop was posting and bringing so little to the table. He's not a newbie player; it's easy to tell/see when someone's actually interested in scum hunting/progressing the thread, as opposed to just splashing around in the water and doing absolutely nothing with the effort.

3. If this is true, then it's less of a risk, I agree. However, there are times/games in which people have also been pretty damn inactive (I'm hoping it won't happen in this one) and/or just not voting. Which means that the threat of vote manipulation is still dangerous/a potential threat, especially if someone takes advantage of inactivity to slide in a pile of votes that were otherwise neutral/not in effect yet. It never hurts to be careful when it comes to double-voting, vote manipulators, or anything of the sort.

[Junk]

You are probably not but there could be more people than SB.