link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[shadykid]

ahaha Giffca will live with 1 HP on the next attack

Ice Sage am cry

[Icon of Sin]

Makalov uses the forged Silver Lance on Tibarn.

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

Dio's team:

vs.

Ice Sage's team:

vs

Turn 17.

Dio's Makalov (Silver Lance) attacks Ice Sage's Tibarn!

16 damage 78% hit 0% crit 22% Sol

(60 31 98 49)

(77)

Tibarn receives 16/66 damage!

Tibarn counterattacks!

19 damage 100% hit 3% crit no skill

(54 40 5)

Makalov receives 19/50 damage!

Both sides survive the fight.

Stats:

Dio

Ike 0/52

Oscar 0/49

Makalov 31/50

Astrid 0/42

Giffca 17/68

Ice Sage

Ike 0/52

Oscar 0/49

Tibarn 20/66

Shinon 0/46

Gatrie 0/58

Ice Sage acts next.

[Ice Sage]

no cancel

Tibarn attacks Makalov

[MRDRHAWK]

>Using Makalov

Dio, I love you n/h

[shadykid]

so basically Ice Sage has to get a Tibarn cancel on the next Giffca attack or gg

[Icon of Sin]

>Using Makalov

Dio, I love you n/h

Hey man everyone wants to maka love with the makshaft.

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

Dio's team:

vs.

Ice Sage's team:

vs

Turn 18.

Ice Sage's Tibarn attacks Dio's Makalov (Silver Lance)!

19 damage 100% hit 3% crit no skill

(9 63 21)

Makalov receives 19/50 damage!

Makalov counterattacks!

16 damage 78% hit 0% crit 22% Sol

(34 80 81 92)

(34)

Tibarn activates Cancel!

Tibarn is unaffected!

Both sides survive the fight.

Stats:

Dio

Ike 0/52

Oscar 0/49

Makalov 12/50

Astrid 0/42

Giffca 17/68

Ice Sage

Ike 0/52

Oscar 0/49

Tibarn 20/66

Shinon 0/46

Gatrie 0/58

Dio acts next.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Espinosa

[ZemZem]

Yeeeah, Cancel!

[Ice Sage]

yesss!

please proc cancel again tibarn lol

[Icon of Sin]

3 rounds left

come on little mak

Kill the giant green bird with the Laguz Lance! End this!

[Espinosa]

Yeeeah, Cancel!

This particular activation only matters as long as another one procs next turn. Two Cancels in a row and Sage has won; otherwise, Dio wins with a sturdier team that got more hits in when it was important.

edit: nevermind, wasn't taking some other options into account.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

[spoiler=see teams here]

Dio's team:

vs.

Ice Sage's team:

vs

Turn 19.

Dio's Makalov (Laguz Lance) attacks Ice Sage's Tibarn!

20 damage 53% hit 0% crit 22% Sol

(34 19 30 55)

(38)

Tibarn receives 20/66 damage!

Tibarn is KO'd!

Stats:

Dio

Ike 0/52

Oscar 0/49

Makalov 12/50

Astrid 0/42

Giffca 17/68

Ice Sage

Ike 0/52

Oscar 0/49

Tibarn 0/66

Shinon 0/46

Gatrie 0/58

Dio wins the battle!

[Ice Sage]

awww

well, I had fun~!

good game Dio :D

[shadykid]

oh wow

so close to another cancel

[Icon of Sin]

That was quite exciting to the end. The right procs, the one stalemate I feared could've downed me a lot sooner and the whole Cancel gambles put me on edge for quite some time.

GG man! T'was a hard fought battle full of twists and surprises.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Woodshooter

[ZemZem]

Good game, you two. That was a lot closer than my match against PKL, haha.

[Ice Sage]

That was quite exciting to the end. The right procs, the one stalemate I feared could've downed me a lot sooner and the whole Cancel gambles put me on edge for quite some time.

GG man! T'was a hard fought battle full of twists and surprises.

all the procs and that stalemate with Ike and Astrid in the beginning! haha that was really fun :)

Good game, you two. That was a lot closer than my match against PKL, haha.

haha, Thanks ZM :)

[Espinosa]

Well, that was quite epic guys!

Morning's about to come so I'm heading to sleep; gonna be hard to fall asleep after witnessing every action of this.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's feedback on the metagame, the units, character balance and so forth. My own personal view that I won't elaborate on right now is we must have found the playable metagame after pages of discussion and quite a lot of hours of playing.

If anyone else reading this will have the time to play another game of the same meta in around 18 hours from now (even better if several hours earlier), send me your team designed under these rules:

- Braves/Forges allowed

- One royal per team allowed

- Provoke/Shade allowed

- No boosters

+ what is in the opening post (revised a little bit).

I'll need 2 people to do this, and it's acceptable if the game lasts 2 days (such as if one of the three parties is idle at some point but on the whole the game progresses steadily). It's fine if you've played before in the first two games (and if you haven't but have followed some of the discussions and games here to be on the inside).

What we still need to test:

- Naesala with his omni-doubling skillz

- Provoke on Shinon and the possible strategies around it (tanking with supports, <1/2 HP Tauroneo/Nepenthe, spamming the power of otherwise hard-to-use units like Boyd)

- Ilyana with Shade and the surrounding strats ("unpunishable" (?) magic chip, General walls, sieging, effective damage vs. Laguz, etc.)

- whatever else (SMs have disappeared for a while)

Oh, Ragnell on Ike is allowed for that particular game. If you'll have the time tomorrow and can cook up a team in the next few hours (and it's done properly) then we'll have one more game before I'm gone from internet activity for a good while.

I kinda want to run another game, but if one can't happen then it can't happen. I can always participate myself as a player if I get one other person.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Espinosa

[ZemZem]

Hmm. I'll make a team with Ilyana soon. As well as statboosters and braves.

I'm sure it'll be fun.

[Espinosa]

Great! But please, let's not touch the stat boosters for now. The changes they bring vary from quite meek and nice (units like Jill becoming viable, magic swords packing a wallop, a bunch of guys getting higher stats in unusual areas and new qualities) to quite extreme (impossible to break an indesctructible wall, Tauroneo on steroids, stat booster stack on one unit in particular Laguz etc.). We'll have to start somewhere there but the exploration can be postponed for a little while so that we can figure things out one at a time.

[ZemZem]

Alright, duly noted. I guess we'll discuss things in PMs.

[shadykid]

Ragnell allowed?

GAMECHANGER

[Icon of Sin]

The game was quite interesting. The metagame of course favors units with at least 25, but ideally 26 speed, and enough bulk to generally survive doubling from the likes of Naesala, Giffca and several Brave weapon users such as Gatrie and Ike. The latter two are helped by dangerous procs however that could spell the doom of characters borderline surviving such as Astrid and Tanith.

The Laguzguard mindgames are probably the part I enjoyed the most within this game, even though it can get easy to notice who has who. After all, why would a flyer sacrifice protection against arrows and one could guess where the Knight Ward nests.

I'd say the metagame is really kind to Ike, especially combined with his good bud Oscar. Other decent cores would include the two we had today (Shinon-Gatrie and Astrid-Makalov), but I dare say Tanith-Marcia has its uses due to Reinforce and the continued support from Oscar. Brom-Zihark sounds like another interesting one. Brom's a bit inferior to Gatrie since he's a bit weaker, less bulky and even faces displayed critical from everyone not named Mist, but he supports an interesting unit who's able to double quite a few units, has a lot of displayed critical with a Vague Katti and comes with the useful Adept skill. Nephenee could also be used instead of Zihark with her amazing critical hit rate coupled with decent bulk and crazy chipping potential with Wrath!Wishblade.

Sadly, Sages, Rhys and a bunch of late joining units don't have much of a chance in this metagame. Mist has horrible accuracy, but interesting support options with Jill, Rolf and possibly Boyd. Other than Zihark, Swordmasters also tend to have terrible support options, though I guess using them on their own is alright if you really need the doubling. Finally, Laguz also end up at the bottom of the barrel, which I think is sad because I'd really like to use Janaff in a Ike-Oscar-Janaff-Shinon core.

As far as Laguz Royals go, they all have their potential. Tibarn is rather luck reliant on his bulk, but it's still quite impressive. His high accuracy is really awesome, since he can even hit Naesala 100% of the time, but he doesn't double much. Giffca's slightly faster and has even higher power, and him being a beast is what won me over instead of switching between bands. Roar can even be used in such a case, especially as a stunned Tibarn untransforms and is then suddenly doubled by a raging black lion to take a huge portion of his HP, Cancel notwithstanding.

Naesala's an extremely interesting unit too. Low power is a bit of a downer, but he doubles absolutely everyone and is amazing on those fast units with little in defense such as Falcoknights and Swordmasters. For further trolling, add Vortex to not get your hands dirty, and Ambush to get a quick kill on a heavily wounded opponent. Sadly, he's really fragile and forged weapons, especially bows, can easily pierce his avoid. It's a shame he doesn't get any supports becase he has the perfect affinity.

I'm honestly not certain on Shade and Provoke. Hell I only wanted Shinon dead first because Deadeye is really annoying. Plus, I pretty much figured out he had to have a Laguzguard against the likes of Giffca, so I really hoped an Aether proc would happen to kill him outright in round 1. But that didn't happen and the game got likely a lot more interesting because of it wouldn't you think.

Also I'm really iffy on useable Ragnell. The sword has the might of a forged Silver, but trades a good amount of accuracy for 5 Defense and ranged possibilities. In a way, this new Ike is going to remind me a bit of a better Makalov, with range, a better proc that activates more often, and a good amount more accuracy and evade. At least he doesn't have the mindgames of a second, unknown weapon.

My two cents. Good luck to whoever fights tomorrow because I'll be watching from the sidelines instead of fighting in the frontlines.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Woodshooter

[dondon151]

i'm still not sure why units using 1-2 range are not countered when they attack a unit locked to 1 range

also, all this information hiding is really puzzling. why is there a need to scout at all? how come you have to guess which units have laguzguards or full guards or knight ward?

Roar can even be used in such a case, especially as a stunned Tibarn untransforms and is then suddenly doubled by a raging black lion to take a huge portion of his HP, Cancel notwithstanding.

explain how this works

Edited November 7, 2013 by dondon151