Persona 3 Mafia - Game Cancelled - Mass Destronktion

[Zkirsche]

Kirche, did you mean to vote for me or did you intend to vote for Eury? Kind of weird post there, that's all.

Yes, I meant to vote for you, I was following my lynch priority I made just before I went to bed yesterday.

HOWEVER I am pretty sure scum have a vigshot then if we have 3 vigs. ##Unvote

I previously cleared Terrador on rolespec but now I'm not sure :S

Ugh gimme a sec to think about this.

[Zkirsche]

Nvm need to be decisive. ##Vote:Terrador

Also noticed that Eury didn't place me on the lynch priority but I suppose that's irrelevant because she thought I was town. I keep trying to reread her, but her posts are so much effort to read.

[Zkirsche]

This mafia should be renamed to Vigilante Mafia.

If anyone cares my reason for voting Terrador summed up is "tl;dr Terrador shot someone for having a private online status". Terrador can you explain why Eukyld's Refa case was half-assed, in your opinion?

So I decided to look into GP's case on Eury to see if there is any merit to sheeping it. I agree with GP about her reaction to the voyeur-like crumb but w.r.t. Shinori I can understand the frustration because you metagamed him badly and shot him because he was aggressive. You need to understand that not all frustration is scummy and some of it can be genuine. I have a feeling it's why you're unhappy with me too.

Now, about Breezy. It's occurred to me that it might be the case that he's new to this game, and thus sheeped a Refa case and preemptively cleared a lot of people he objectively couldn't have, because of inexperience. Can anyone confirm how many games he's played, or offer meta on him?

Fairly new, I think he's played before though.

Gonna do some work now. Will be back later.

[Bluedoom]

Can someone tell me why one of Terrador/Eury can be scum, and not both? I'm not getting the reason for this.

I was townreading Eury until like, she started asking GP to explain fully her Shinori vig which was pointless when we know that she was also responsible for vigging mafia. I mean I guess she was also pissed that she meta'd Shinori right but he ended up dead.

But the recent vote on Sky Paladin isn't satisfactory mostly because her read on him doesn't really look any different than say, on Terrador or Breezy. I understand that Sky is picking up in activity now and Breezy is inactive but still, I feel like your Sky read din't look stronger.

If Sky is telling the truth and is a JoaT then he really is town. I don't think Poly would give the mafia two JoaTs, and having an multishot dayvig with a JoaT having a single vigshot seems more likely.

@GP: I thought the influencer could've turned votes on to Breezy for WIFOM if he was his buddy. That vote influence made no sense though; for starters, it was too early in the day phase to do something like that, and second, why Breezy of all people? SB I can understand since he was under fire (for dumb reasons IMO) but dat breezy thing came out of no where.

Terrador> Eury=Breey at this point (Sky is an unknown although I feel one of him/Terra is going to flip scum. Thinking Terra's more likely to)

[Elieson]

Elieson's "I'm becoming a coffee drinker..." Votals

Sakurabreeze64 (2): Green Poet, Junko Enoshima
Terrador (2): Bluedoom, kirsche
Eurykins (1): Sky_Paladin
Sky_Paladin (1): Eurykins
*???Bluedoom (1): Kopfjager???*

Voteless: Terrador, SakuraBreeze64
*Not sure if this was a real vote*

It is now Day 2. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to hammer and 4 to deadline lynch. Phase ends at 3:30 MST on April 9, 2014. So 5:30 EST, 4:30 CST. That's 32 hours and 30 minutes away.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Elieson

[Terrador]

I've got to head out for school right now, but nothing's really changed overnight. No time for real detail, but I'm still willing to see Eury or Sky lynched.

[Zkirsche]

Elie, Eury is listed twice there. She is voting Sky.

Can someone tell me why one of Terrador/Eury can be scum, and not both? I'm not getting the reason for this

They can both be scum and I don't think anyone's said otherwise?

I properly read Eury's wall and it reads kinda distant, stuff like "you wound me here, Terrador" and "Blue's claim did seem to... come out of the blue" just feel wrong for some reason. Also despite the seeming effort put in to get all the links, the analysis never gets very deep. For example

- Logic behind shooting Euklyd was laid out clear enough, (even if I'm not certain by the information displayed that Euklyd was the target of choice, but what's done is done.)

I'm not sure what this implied? Laying out logic clearly is not indicative of alignment by itself, you have to actually look at it. It's easy enough to disagree with it, but what exactly is wrong with it and what does that mean?

- Claims Odd-Night Vig.

- This led to the slapfight between Terra/Shinori, which resulted in GP shooting Shinori (on the basis of aggression seeming scummy). Perhaps it was mostly clash of personalities in the responses, but not a whole lot of progress came from the exchange I felt.

- Interesting reaction to Junko's doc claim.

What does the latter even mean? Do you think it's scummy for Terra to go "I don't believe you" but unvote anyway likely because of the unbelievable claim? This and the rest of the quote is just reporting on what Terra has done for the day and not actually commenting on it which is easy for scum to do to pad out thier posts.

- Honestly still confused about the sudden claim.

You said this about Marth to, what do these sudden claims tell you about thier alignment. What scum intent is there in sudden claiming and do you think that it applies here?

1. As stated earlier, the vote was me prodding you for answers (regarding the inconsistencies/constant vague answers you kept giving us early in the day phase).

I think this actually sums it up pretty well; you have walls and walls of content yet none of it added up to anything more than a prodvote midway through D2. Even now you're current vote is based mostly on an ED1 interaction and your second biggest scumread is someone who hasn't made a lot of content... because they haven't made a lot of content. Why is Breezy worse than Terrador, who had "an interesting reaction

I'm glad I actually bothered to parse that wall properly so I can see all this. This is just one wall of many though, but that's all I have time/effort for so have fun~

[Eurykins]

I have this terrible feeling in the back of my mind that all the people posting walls are actually just town arguing with each other in circles and all the less active people are scum waiting for us to kill each other off ugh

Looked over Eury's reads briefly, and I've only got two comments so far.

1. Analysis of Junko seems solid. But where is he now? I feel like he's posted extremely little D2, despite being easily the most frequent poster D1.

2. Maybe my own opinion is biased because of his vote on me, but I'm surprised that kirsche is a townread to you. Is there anyone other than Junko who believes kirsche is likely scum?

@everyone, we really need to put more pressure on Breezy :/

1. That's another reason why I'm not entirely sold on Junko being solid newbie!townie atm, despite the doc claim. Unusual/paranoid responses, sudden lack of commitment/posting to the thread once said claim was out, and otherwise very scattered posting (as was listed in the wall post earlier last night). The best read I can give on Junko is honestly a null, possibly leaning slightly scummy, because I'm having a lot of trouble keeping track of his thoughts, actions, and contributions to the thread as a whole.

2. Kirsche: I admit, I usually have my own personal bias against him (some of the things I've seen him do in OC games rubbed me the wrong way hard, especially in terms of reaction checking and such; sometimes he's also very abrasive with his posting style [sort of like Shinori], but that's how I've learned that aggression/forward gameplay isn't always tell-tale signs of scumminess), but he's dropping similar vibes to me as he did in ITTD (It's time to Duel) Mafia that just ended, in which case he and I were one of the last townies standing (and he trusted me enough to warrant trying to give me mayor votes in the last day phase). So that, along with his genuine reactions to Shinori's vig shot and posting style as of so far, is what's giving me the townish read on him.

No and that's because I'm town, GP ;/

##Unvote Already said I thought that dayvig was town based on role/setupspec.

##Vote:Sky On to my 4th string scumread now yayyyy

Eury's biggest scumread is someone who is "kinda grimy" because of SB shenanigans and a dislike to his case against her.

SB case contributed a lot to it, yes; but it was also due to how he handled it (especially early on). And maybe I'm moreso slightly biased in the fact that his vote's on me, I dunno. I just haven't felt great about Sky since D1, and though D2 improved, the gut feels aren't remedied just yet.

The reason I ask is because I am a jack of all trades with a vig shot, and I wanted to delay claiming until I could see where scum where voting.

I'm at L-1 yes?

More to come.

...WAT? ANOTHER vig claim? Dear lord, wtf is this madness? Town CANNOT have this much vigging power unless this game is just THAT broken in town-side favor/power.

I mean Eury put out a great post but then voted for me because "kind of grimy". I doubt that both Terra and Eury are scum, but that's kind of how it's looking right now.

Well, to be fair, amongst my scummiest reads I had in my wall, you and breezy topped them? o.o [so I'm not sure how the fact that I voted you while saying that you're grimy (aka. Scummy/dirty) seems...out of place?] May be misunderstanding what you're saying, so if I am, do you mind clarifying?

meh not posting much because I don't exactly feel to well about myself in this game.

Anyways I am starting to have doubts about kirsche due to his reaction of Shinori getting killed. He seemed pissed off and not surprised. He certainly showed how pissed he was. I doubt scum kirsche would have done that reaction. I want to put pressure on Breezy but forcing him to post when he is sick doesn't really make me feel that good. Sky Paladin's case against Eurykins is just not too good. It feels more like a guess. He uses alright logic but I it clears a few people but it just offers some assumption that it must be eurykins because she is the only one left in his(SB) list of townies. Still I don't think warrants a lynch just yet. In my honest opinion he(SB) might have tried to target someone who wasn't really talking (Breezy). We had not gathered any info on Breezy so far and basically had no idea of his alignment. SB with a one and one could help. But honestly Eury your case I don't feel is much better than Sky's either. He might have played badly during ED1 but it doesn't mean it is scum. And while I will admit his case against you is not exactly the best it still does not warrant a lynch. Sky Paladin seems to certainly have been putting a lot more effort. But he is right on Eury not wanting to lynch Refa. Refa also attempted to suspect Sky Paladin in a few posts before revealing to be scum. But he did vote for Breezy at one point but it looked sarcastic. Breezy is my main focus right now. I am kind of tired so I will try to add thoughts on terrador later.

So so far it is Breezy>Eurykins=Sky Paladin

(Am I analyzing better?)

1. Uh... Kirsche being pissed over Shinori's death = yes. But... how was he not surprised? (In terms of Shinori flipping town? Or the fact that Shinori was shot?)

2. Well, we saw that even Green Poet admitted to and openly fabricated her response when Shinori died here (which also kinda made Terrador look bad in light of the timing of said vig shot). I personally don't find his reaction fabricated, but since our claimed day vig (assuming she's townie) did so, I don't think it's out of the question that scum could as well.

3. Agreed with the bolded statement on Breezy.

4. Likewise willing to give him the slight benefit of the doubt, but his gameplay through D1 and the content there was a bit worrisome despite his comebacks in D2 (which is still why I'm wary of him atm).

Can someone tell me why one of Terrador/Eury can be scum, and not both? I'm not getting the reason for this.

I was townreading Eury until like, she started asking GP to explain fully her Shinori vig which was pointless when we know that she was also responsible for vigging mafia. I mean I guess she was also pissed that she meta'd Shinori right but he ended up dead.

But the recent vote on Sky Paladin isn't satisfactory mostly because her read on him doesn't really look any different than say, on Terrador or Breezy. I understand that Sky is picking up in activity now and Breezy is inactive but still, I feel like your Sky read din't look stronger.

If Sky is telling the truth and is a JoaT then he really is town. I don't think Poly would give the mafia two JoaTs, and having an multishot dayvig with a JoaT having a single vigshot seems more likely.

@GP: I thought the influencer could've turned votes on to Breezy for WIFOM if he was his buddy. That vote influence made no sense though; for starters, it was too early in the day phase to do something like that, and second, why Breezy of all people? SB I can understand since he was under fire (for dumb reasons IMO) but dat breezy thing came out of no where.

Terrador> Eury=Breey at this point (Sky is an unknown although I feel one of him/Terra is going to flip scum. Thinking Terra's more likely to)

1. I wanted to know her reasonings, because along with the fact that, yes, I read into Shinori and saw him as being townie well before he got shot, Terrador was also claiming odd night vig. If/when GP confirmed as the day vig (and now that we know that SKY's holding another vig shot), it's making me really skeptical/worried about these claims floating around.

2. I'm inclined to believe that, god forbid town has two sources of Vig shots, Sky's one seems the most solid to run with as one of the possibilities. Day Vig + Odd night Vig = Crazy strong; Day vig + JoAT one shot = possible, but still really strong; Odd night Vig + JoAT one-shot = Imo, slightly more balanced than the second option. But either way, all 3 of these claims cannot be true, imo, unless this was a game bent around the gamble of misvigging townies (in order for scum to win this game).

[Eurykins]

I properly read Eury's wall and it reads kinda distant, stuff like "you wound me here, Terrador" and "Blue's claim did seem to... come out of the blue" just feel wrong for some reason. Also despite the seeming effort put in to get all the links, the analysis never gets very deep. For example

So sue me for joking back and forth; I did so a bit last day phase as well. I was also tired and needed sleep while posting, so the wall was all I could manage before I nearly blacked out on my compy desk. ;/

I'm not sure what this implied? Laying out logic clearly is not indicative of alignment by itself, you have to actually look at it. It's easy enough to disagree with it, but what exactly is wrong with it and what does that mean?

-" Logic behind shooting Euklyd was laid out clear enough" = I could see the logic/thought process regarding the process of elimination which led to Euklyd getting shot. There was obvious effort (as opposed to randomly picking and shooting someone), so that in itself told me that Terrador actually considered carefully as to who was worth the vig attempt. I did not agree (given the reasons listed) that Euklyd was the best/smartest choice TO pick, given mentions of scummier reads on the list, but like Shinori's death, what's done is done.

What does the latter even mean? Do you think it's scummy for Terra to go "I don't believe you" but unvote anyway likely because of the unbelievable claim? This and the rest of the quote is just reporting on what Terra has done for the day and not actually commenting on it which is easy for scum to do to pad out thier posts.

I'm highlighting the comment in itself that Terrador made. He chose to unvote Junko despite not really buying it (I admit, I myself still have some doubts, but after losing our cop, I'd rather not risk losing a doc as well) on the basis that he assumes that Junko was saying it to make himself into a target (and thus pull the focus off of Terrador). It was strange, thus an "Interesting reaction" to said doc claim, and not one I generally see people react with. However, I don't think it's necessarily a telling sign at all wrt a scum/town sign.

You said this about Marth to, what do these sudden claims tell you about thier alignment. What scum intent is there in sudden claiming and do you think that it applies here?

That's the problem: I don't know what it says about their alignment, aside from either being jumpy as scum, or just overall paranoid/defensive/jumping the gun as townies. Sky's claim, I can understand, given the vote pressure. Terrador's claim I could understand, given the scrutiny by Wen/GP as to why he was at Euklyd's place. Even Junko's claim (though it seemed pretty jumpy to me and I don't altogether buy it) had some warrant given the pressure; for the most part, it's mostly GP's and Bluedoom's claims that seem to come out of nowhere. Granted, GP's one was verified by Wen, and it also gave us answers/cleared up the questions we've been trying to get answered since D2 started, so it did give us more to work with in figuring things out. I've yet to understand/see why Blue chose to claim though; it seems to out unnecessary information, imo (though I could see the validity of his claimed role crumbing through his posts) and I don't think he was under a ton of voting/overall pressure (in terms of lynching or otherwise) that warranted the claim.

I think this actually sums it up pretty well; you have walls and walls of content yet none of it added up to anything more than a prodvote midway through D2. Even now you're current vote is based mostly on an ED1 interaction and your second biggest scumread is someone who hasn't made a lot of content... because they haven't made a lot of content. Why is Breezy worse than Terrador, who had "an interesting reaction

Scum!lurking is a legitimate playing style/tactic, often displayed quite often by a few certain players (*cough* Scum!nori *cough*), thus warranting second highest scumread. Explained Terrador's reaction bit above, though in light of a THIRD vig source (Sky JoAT claim), my gut feeling is moving Terrador up on the priority list because we just cannot have that much power on townside in this game. Day Vig with claimed infinite shots + Odd night Vig + JoAT with Vig shot. Unless somehow every scum was given a BPV (which is not the case, since two were shot/killed already and clearly did not have anything of the such) or means to keep themselves from getting shot, all of these claims cannot be legit.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

meh not posting much because I don't exactly feel to well about myself in this game.

Anyways I am starting to have doubts about kirsche due to his reaction of Shinori getting killed. He seemed pissed off and not surprised. He certainly showed how pissed he was. I doubt scum kirsche would have done that reaction. I want to put pressure on Breezy but forcing him to post when he is sick doesn't really make me feel that good. Sky Paladin's case against Eurykins is just not too good. It feels more like a guess. He uses alright logic but I it clears a few people but it just offers some assumption that it must be eurykins because she is the only one left in his(SB) list of townies. Still I don't think warrants a lynch just yet. In my honest opinion he(SB) might have tried to target someone who wasn't really talking (Breezy). We had not gathered any info on Breezy so far and basically had no idea of his alignment. SB with a one and one could help. But honestly Eury your case I don't feel is much better than Sky's either. He might have played badly during ED1 but it doesn't mean it is scum. And while I will admit his case against you is not exactly the best it still does not warrant a lynch. Sky Paladin seems to certainly have been putting a lot more effort. But he is right on Eury not wanting to lynch Refa. Refa also attempted to suspect Sky Paladin in a few posts before revealing to be scum. But he did vote for Breezy at one point but it looked sarcastic. Breezy is my main focus right now. I am kind of tired so I will try to add thoughts on terrador later.

So so far it is Breezy>Eurykins=Sky Paladin

(Am I analyzing better?)

Is the only reason you suspect me because of my lack of posting?

Also, I feel asking if your analyzing better is not a good idea to post, but that's just me. It seems that you put some thought into these, and by asking if these are better analysis, it shows kind of a lack of confidence in your reads.

[Junk]

1. That's another reason why I'm not entirely sold on Junko being solid newbie!townie atm, despite the doc claim. Unusual/paranoid responses, sudden lack of commitment/posting to the thread once said claim was out, and otherwise very scattered posting (as was listed in the wall post earlier last night). The best read I can give on Junko is honestly a null, possibly leaning slightly scummy, because I'm having a lot of trouble keeping track of his thoughts, actions, and contributions to the thread as a whole.

2. Kirsche: I admit, I usually have my own personal bias against him (some of the things I've seen him do in OC games rubbed me the wrong way hard, especially in terms of reaction checking and such; sometimes he's also very abrasive with his posting style [sort of like Shinori], but that's how I've learned that aggression/forward gameplay isn't always tell-tale signs of scumminess), but he's dropping similar vibes to me as he did in ITTD (It's time to Duel) Mafia that just ended, in which case he and I were one of the last townies standing (and he trusted me enough to warrant trying to give me mayor votes in the last day phase). So that, along with his genuine reactions to Shinori's vig shot and posting style as of so far, is what's giving me the townish read on him.

SB case contributed a lot to it, yes; but it was also due to how he handled it (especially early on). And maybe I'm moreso slightly biased in the fact that his vote's on me, I dunno. I just haven't felt great about Sky since D1, and though D2 improved, the gut feels aren't remedied just yet.

...WAT? ANOTHER vig claim? Dear lord, wtf is this madness? Town CANNOT have this much vigging power unless this game is just THAT broken in town-side favor/power.

Well, to be fair, amongst my scummiest reads I had in my wall, you and breezy topped them? o.o [so I'm not sure how the fact that I voted you while saying that you're grimy (aka. Scummy/dirty) seems...out of place?] May be misunderstanding what you're saying, so if I am, do you mind clarifying?

1. Uh... Kirsche being pissed over Shinori's death = yes. But... how was he not surprised? (In terms of Shinori flipping town? Or the fact that Shinori was shot?)

2. Well, we saw that even Green Poet admitted to and openly fabricated her response when Shinori died here (which also kinda made Terrador look bad in light of the timing of said vig shot). I personally don't find his reaction fabricated, but since our claimed day vig (assuming she's townie) did so, I don't think it's out of the question that scum could as well.

3. Agreed with the bolded statement on Breezy.

4. Likewise willing to give him the slight benefit of the doubt, but his gameplay through D1 and the content there was a bit worrisome despite his comebacks in D2 (which is still why I'm wary of him atm).

1. I wanted to know her reasonings, because along with the fact that, yes, I read into Shinori and saw him as being townie well before he got shot, Terrador was also claiming odd night vig. If/when GP confirmed as the day vig (and now that we know that SKY's holding another vig shot), it's making me really skeptical/worried about these claims floating around.

2. I'm inclined to believe that, god forbid town has two sources of Vig shots, Sky's one seems the most solid to run with as one of the possibilities. Day Vig + Odd night Vig = Crazy strong; Day vig + JoAT one shot = possible, but still really strong; Odd night Vig + JoAT one-shot = Imo, slightly more balanced than the second option. But either way, all 3 of these claims cannot be true, imo, unless this was a game bent around the gamble of misvigging townies (in order for scum to win this game).

I guess that was not exactly the best choice of wording. What I meant to say was his post did not seem like a scum reaction. Overly surprised and all. Just not fabricated like you said. Kirsche seems town right now. I doubt scum kirsche would post so much and be more vocal(is that the right word). We both seem to agree that the reason for Eury voting for Sky Paladin isn't the best. He also makes a good point in which you are not exactly going to indepth with your posts.Just scratching the surface you could say.Kirsche is leaning town. He seems to be making a massive effort to hunt at least for me and suspects at least three different people which I do not feel is scummy. Sky Paladin being another vig is interesting. If Sky Paladin is town I would HATE to lynch him as we would have just lost one of the best roles. Green Poet AND Kopflajer cooperating seems townish as I doubt both of them are scum. If kop was scum I doubt he would have asked why did you visit Euklyd last night bro. I feel he would have kept it a secret so we would run around in circles trying to figure out who killed Euklyd. Right now Breezy>Eurykins>Sky Paladin( purely because of his role.) I would hate to lose our jack of trades now. I still have not really looked at terrador just yet so hold on about that.Actually nevermind I want to analyze him. So one thing that is interesting is that he sometimes points out own arguments with his own statements such as saying while I could be lying about my own number of shots. He also admits to saying that sky would be a better kill than euklyd. He even says that if Eury flips town he could be scum. Veteran mafia players what does this kind of behaviour usually indicate? Terrador's logic for wanting eurykins dead is just meh. She was active when the vote swapper was around so she could be scum. It still surprises me that he wants to lynch sky paladin so bad. If sky flips town then terrador is scum to me. Putting so much effort into getting Sky lynched for him to be town is scummy. Terrador is posting a lot of good evidence though. He is neutral to me because I can't really tell at this time. The same could be said for me wanting to get breezy voted so bad but I guess what I mean is that I would rather put pressure on Breezy. We(Terraodr and me) both seems to agree on lynch priorities kind of with placing being similar. I would not really mind a eury lynch but I would much prefer if we put more pressure onto breezy today. I also apologize for my last post Sky Paladin because somehow I missed you claiming. Probably due to being tired. And since Breezy just posted well kind of. More to put pressure on you so you could a more in-depth because your last post was mostly restating what everyone else would think.

[Zkirsche]

Junko do you mind using paragraphs to seperate the points you are making in a post?

[spoiler=Eury]

-" Logic behind shooting Euklyd was laid out clear enough" = I could see the logic/thought process regarding the process of elimination which led to Euklyd getting shot. There was obvious effort (as opposed to randomly picking and shooting someone), so that in itself told me that Terrador actually considered carefully as to who was worth the vig attempt.

Cool, but scum vigs can consider their targets carefully and construct a fake case overnight too,so none of what you've put here is actually indicative of alignment. I get that you dsiagree, but why and do you see any scum/town intent from it.

You can't just handwave everything saying "what's done is done" that like me pushing someone to a lynch and go "oh what's done is done" you have to look at why something was done and deduce that there's no point talking about it. There's no point in pushing GP for her Shinori shot because she is essentially confirmed town, Terrador is not, however.

I'm highlighting the comment in itself that Terrador made. He chose to unvote Junko despite not really buying it (I admit, I myself still have some doubts, but after losing our cop, I'd rather not risk losing a doc as well) on the basis that he assumes that Junko was saying it to make himself into a target (and thus pull the focus off of Terrador). It was strange, thus an "Interesting reaction" to said doc claim, and not one I generally see people react with. However, I don't think it's necessarily a telling sign at all wrt a scum/town sign.

If it's not a telling sign, why is it interesting? What makes a strange reaction worth noting if it's not because it's potentially telling of something? Most of your points on Terrador are just fluff which is why I called it padding.

SB case contributed a lot to it, yes; but it was also due to how he handled it (especially early on). And maybe I'm moreso slightly biased in the fact that his vote's on me, I dunno. I just haven't felt great about Sky since D1, and though D2 improved, the gut feels aren't remedied just yet.

I think your misunderstanding the criticism that has been made here and by Sky, so I'm going to repost this because I feel like it is a good summary of why you are leapfrogging people in my priority list:

you have walls and walls of content yet none of it has added up to anything more than a prodvote midway through D2. Even now you're current vote is based mostly on an ED1 interaction and your second biggest scumread is someone who hasn't made a lot of content

Town CANNOT have this much vigging power unless this game is just THAT broken in town-side favor/power.

Ok I want your honest opinion on something: which do you think is a more likely combination: town JoAT+infinite shot dayvig or town alt-nightvig + infinite shot dayvig?

Scum!lurking is a legitimate playing style/tactic, often displayed quite often by a few certain players (*cough* Scum!nori *cough*), thus warranting second highest scumread.

Cool, I can understand that lurking is scummy, but do you think the input Breezy has made so far is scum struggling to find content or busy town trying to find content and why?

@Breezy: If you can find the time to answer any or all of these questions that'd be great, they don't require a lot of reading:

1) Which of these is the most likely combination: town JoAT+infinite shot dayvig or town alt-nightvig + infinite shot dayvig or all three roles are town?

2) Who do you think SB targeted with his ability last night. I'd suggest checking his ISO if you don't really know.

3) Do you think people who aren't posting a lot are scum trying to hide?

4) Do you think people who suspect people who don't post a lot are scum looking for an easy lynch?

5) If you had to name one guy as mafia, who would it be and if possible, why?

Thanks.

Terrador > Eury > Sky > Junko > Marth=Breezy >>> Kopf=GP

Here's hoping formatting doesn't fail me again.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

Junko do you mind using paragraphs to seperate the points you are making in a post?

[spoiler=Eury]

Cool, but scum vigs can consider their targets carefully and construct a fake case overnight too,so none of what you've put here is actually indicative of alignment. I get that you dsiagree, but why and do you see any scum/town intent from it.

You can't just handwave everything saying "what's done is done" that like me pushing someone to a lynch and go "oh what's done is done" you have to look at why something was done and deduce that there's no point talking about it. There's no point in pushing GP for her Shinori shot because she is essentially confirmed town, Terrador is not, however.

If it's not a telling sign, why is it interesting? What makes a strange reaction worth noting if it's not because it's potentially telling of something? Most of your points on Terrador are just fluff which is why I called it padding.

I think your misunderstanding the criticism that has been made here and by Sky, so I'm going to repost this because I feel like it is a good summary of why you are leapfrogging people in my priority list:

you have walls and walls of content yet none of it has added up to anything more than a prodvote midway through D2. Even now you're current vote is based mostly on an ED1 interaction and your second biggest scumread is someone who hasn't made a lot of content

Ok I want your honest opinion on something: which do you think is a more likely combination: town JoAT+infinite shot dayvig or town alt-nightvig + infinite shot dayvig?

Cool, I can understand that lurking is scummy, but do you think the input Breezy has made so far is scum struggling to find content or busy town trying to find content and why?

@Breezy: If you can find the time to answer any or all of these questions that'd be great, they don't require a lot of reading:

1) Which of these is the most likely combination: town JoAT+infinite shot dayvig or town alt-nightvig + infinite shot dayvig or all three roles are town?

2) Who do you think SB targeted with his ability last night. I'd suggest checking his ISO if you don't really know.

3) Do you think people who aren't posting a lot are scum trying to hide?

4) Do you think people who suspect people who don't post a lot are scum looking for an easy lynch?

5) If you had to name one guy as mafia, who would it be and if possible, why?

Thanks.

Terrador > Eury > Sky > Junko > Marth=Breezy >>> Kopf=GP

Here's hoping formatting doesn't fail me again.

I'll answer 1 and 3 (Not in that order because indecisive me) right away because I'm here and I can answer them. Will get to the other questions later if that's cool.

3.) I'd say it can go either way really. They can either be lurking!scum trying to lose suspicion, lurking!town because trying to not get mislynched, or lurking!town again because they really have nothing better to say. It really depends on the player to be quite honest with you.

1.) All three being town seems kinda, I dunno, awkward, because the chances of shooting another town is high if all three do shoot. Seems a bit too cautious to give town that IMO.

Giving a JoaT a Vig shot, again to me, seems kinda like it's there in case like, one of the vigs died or something. I can see it being possible, but probably not.

Basically, infin. Day vig & Alt. Night Vig seems to be the most plausible to me.

[Eurykins]

[Trying to find the easiest way to most efficiently respond (while keeping the answers in line with the questions/comments), so just shoving everything into the spoiler window.]

[spoiler=Eury]

Cool, but scum vigs can consider their targets carefully and construct a fake case overnight too,so none of what you've put here is actually indicative of alignment. I get that you dsiagree, but why and do you see any scum/town intent from it.

You can't just handwave everything saying "what's done is done" that like me pushing someone to a lynch and go "oh what's done is done" you have to look at why something was done and deduce that there's no point talking about it. There's no point in pushing GP for her Shinori shot because she is essentially confirmed town, Terrador is not, however.

I will concede that Shinori's death can be ignored/passed given GP's situation, and that Euklyd's death isn't in similar circumstances. In addition, there's no argument that the constructed response seemed really well-prepped; imo, almost too well prepped. I'm not quite sure if scum would go that much effort in pulling together a chunk of information like that (and formatted as such); it's uncommon (at least for me) to see scum ever doing something like that to that extent. [i also agree once again (as was said before) that Terrador isn't cleared by any means; far from it due to Sky's claim on top of GP's own.]

If it's not a telling sign, why is it interesting? What makes a strange reaction worth noting if it's not because it's potentially telling of something? Most of your points on Terrador are just fluff which is why I called it padding.

Imo, pointing something out that I find odd/interesting isn't just for my benefit, but for other people to see and take note of as well. There are often times that I fail to notice small details in how people say/do things (like in the case of when people are crumbing roles- I'm generally terrible at it unless someone plainly states that they're dropping a crumb in saying something, and we all know that in itself is pretty damn rare (unless you're using it to verify a claim/proof that you crumbed it prior). To me, just because I don't understand the purpose of what was said and done completely, doesn't mean it's not worth mentioning, because someone else may benefit/be able to do something with the given information and be able to see something that I can't. Call it padding if you will, but it stuck out to me nonetheless, even if I myself can't utilize it in the act/post dropping vibes, scummy or otherwise.

(IE. Terrador/GP looking at Shinori. Not knowing him, they immediately assumed that aggression = scummy. Had they given myself, you, or others who know him/his meta/habits/etc. the time to react and look through his posts for ourselves, I think we could've potentially avoided the misvig shot aimed at him.)

I think your misunderstanding the criticism that has been made here and by Sky, so I'm going to repost this because I feel like it is a good summary of why you are leapfrogging people in my priority list:

you have walls and walls of content yet none of it has added up to anything more than a prodvote midway through D2. Even now you're current vote is based mostly on an ED1 interaction and your second biggest scumread is someone who hasn't made a lot of content

Prodvote resulted from GP's actions D2, yes. Otherwise I've posted the rest of my reads in terms of what to make of the mess that's known as D2 content. Piecing together the fragments of what's going on in this game is being rather slow on my end, so if that's what's showing, then I apologize (but it's the state of my head thus far as the game progresses). God knows I messed up enough in misreading people a lot (especially in ITTD, herpderp Randa/Blue lynches), so I'm doing what I can with what information we have on-hand atm.

Ok I want your honest opinion on something: which do you think is a more likely combination: town JoAT+infinite shot dayvig or town alt-nightvig + infinite shot dayvig?

Between those two? The first one definitely seems more realistic, given that the latter means that every other day, town can essentially knock out 2 people (as the day/night shots would overlap every other night phase), which is super powerful in means of possibilities in nailing scum, but also very dangerous, as the chances to misvigging townies also goes up.

[WRT Alt-night vig + Infinite shot dayvig: Technically, in one day phase/night phase alone, town could've theoretically knock out 3+ scum, given day vig hitting scum, correct scum lynch target, and scum dying from Odd night vig. Technically that could've happened with JoAT (but he claims that he still has his shot), but that happening every other day/night phase (2+ town vig shots)= Really unlikely that town would have that potential/power.]

Cool, I can understand that lurking is scummy, but do you think the input Breezy has made so far is scum struggling to find content or busy town trying to find content and why?

Breezy commented on being sick earlier, which could've naturally affected posting content/the ability to post more often, but overall, I'm not sure if that excuses lack of activity in terms of D1 and D2 (and in worst case scenario, if Breezy figured he was too sick to really commit much to the game, he could've asked for a sub to remedy that, because being inactive as town doesn't benefit town at all in terms of scum-hunting and otherwise contributing to the game progress overall). So that's why I'm leaning more scummy in terms of the inactivity atm.

[Terrador]

Yo, I'm getting worked pretty hard today (school, job interview, now yard work), but I'm gonna chip in a few things. No time to read in-depth the prior posts and respond to them, but I get the gist of what's going on.

I don't like that we're taking Sky_Paladin's claim at face value, seeing as he has no proof of this role (not even claimed his other JoaT abilities, so far as I can see--convenient, no? I think that taking setup speculation over the fact that I have a proven kill that looks town (if not perfectly so; I know some of you think bad decision = scum) is rather silly, but most of you don't seem to think like that.

THAT SAID, I suspect setup speculation is going to get me lynched, so try this on for size:

I'm not actually a town odd-night vigilante. I'm an ITP that can kill every night, and I have two win conditions:

A: To outlive four specific townies (two of whom I now know were Mitsuki and Shinori). If this is done, I am withdrawn from the game.

B: To survive until the end of the game. I have mod-confirmed that I can win with town.

My own twopence on the setup speculation: I suspect that Polydeuces expected this role to be played as anti-town, as I would have had to only beat four townies in order to win. However, by the time I got my role PM and realized Day 1 had begun, one mafioso was already dead, which made me think to try to the town win condition, especially as I have no investigative role and flavor speculation was banned (nacht). Refa getting thrown under the bus only confirmed that this would be a good strategy for me. I have actively scumhunted all game, and genuinely believed that Euklyd was scum, between one of our best townies having a case on him and my own narrowing-down of optimal shot targets. When Wen called me out, I knew that trying to fight him would be futile, so I understated my role in order to avoid attracting suspicion, because I knew that setup speculation made a second town vigilante seem strange. Town was better off with me being as quiet as possible, shooting scum and scumhunting but attracting little attention. Now, I can smell a lynch coming down on my head, seeing as SP is apparently trusted more than I am.

I want you all to remember this: I have no reason to shoot town or misdirect same. I have no investigative role, so I have no idea which townies are which. However, we do have scum narrowed down to some degree, so I'm much closer to that win condition. Shooting scum is the wise option for me, especially since more than one kill being on a non-shady person would result in me getting killed next Day phase.

I have no reason to claim this as a lie. If I was really a serial killer, I would fight tooth and nail against GP's and/or SP's claim from the start. Claiming this, only to turn around and shoot a townie-looking person, would be beyond stupid. Lying about this would mean loss for me, except I lose Day 3 rather than Day 2.

Go ahead, ISO me. I've been actively scumhunting all game long, and I have a proven town-looking kill under my belt. I want to re-iterate, one last time: trying to tack on a town-favoring WC, then not directing my kill and thread attention at actually scummy players, would very quickly result in my loss.

I'm formally requesting martyr or bodyguard protection at this point, as well. I know Green Poet needs protecting, too; seeing as Marth doesn't trust me as far as he can throw me, I imagine that duty will go to the doctor.

Thank you for your patience. I apologize for lying earlier, but I genuinely thought it would keep mafia eyes off me. With the threat of lynch pressing so close and setup speculation becoming so critical, though, I felt I couldn't keep this quiet any longer.

One last note: I have confirmed with Elieson that, if SB were to visit me (even though his death doesn't benefit my win condition), he would die. Make of that what you will; it weakens the case on Eury, but I can't see why SB would visit me over her unless he pulled a Wen and knew I had a power role.

Speaking of, one last thing. @Wen: Would you know if anyone visited me Night 1? Or do you just know whom I visited?

[Terrador]

One last addendum, as I realize I made a phrasing error that could look bad.

Shooting scum is the wise option for me, especially since more than one kill being on a non-shady person would result in me getting killed next Day phase.

That was meant to convey "more than one non-shady person dead Night 2".

Also, ##Request Vote Totals.

I think anyone town would agree that dropping the hammer before I get back from yard work would be a Bad Idea . I'm leaving for now.

[Green Poet]

Could a mod confirm or deny whether or not it was stated that the only factions in this game are SEES and Nyxists? I get the impression this was stated somewhere, and I'd disqualified the possibility of ITPs existing in my reads because of that.

wrt Terrador.

A: To outlive four specific townies (two of whom I now know were Mitsuki and Shinori). If this is done, I am withdrawn from the game.

This worries me. The implication here is that you win if two more townies die, and no one here but yourself knows who these townies are. You seem to phrase this claim as though you only learn whom the townies are posthumously, but none of us can confirm the truth behind this. It's possible that you know the four townies you need to win, or perhaps there are even only three, and you simply aren't telling us.

The fact that you've already demonstrated your capacity to fakeclaim parts of your role makes me apprehensive to trust your motivations. I think that it's likely that your role is close to what you have stated, but if I were you, I would be working to achieve the first win condition rather than the second by virtue of the number of town deaths so far over mafia deaths.

In any case, I think that a lynch on you today is unfavorable to town. However:

If you claim an uncontested kill on scum tomorrow morning, then town should accept your motivations as town-friendly and that you are working towards your second wincon.

If there are two or more townie deaths tomorrow morning, you should be lynched, or I will simply vig you if I am still alive.

Tell me if you think this proposition sounds fair to you, as a concise and reasonable way to judge your choice of wincon.

[Green Poet]

I'm formally requesting martyr or bodyguard protection at this point, as well. I know Green Poet needs protecting, too; seeing as Marth doesn't trust me as far as he can throw me, I imagine that duty will go to the doctor.

I've already coordinated with Wen to a certain capacity and will use insomnia as needed in order to discreetly draw the protection I think I need towards me. I think we should discontinue publicly organizing our plans for tonight's protection, though.

[Terrador]

Could a mod confirm or deny whether or not it was stated that the only factions in this game are SEES and Nyxists? I get the impression this was stated somewhere, and I'd disqualified the possibility of ITPs existing in my reads because of that.

wrt Terrador.

This worries me. The implication here is that you win if two more townies die, and no one here but yourself knows who these townies are. You seem to phrase this claim as though you only learn whom the townies are posthumously, but none of us can confirm the truth behind this. It's possible that you know the four townies you need to win, or perhaps there are even only three, and you simply aren't telling us.

The fact that you've already demonstrated your capacity to fakeclaim parts of your role makes me apprehensive to trust your motivations. I think that it's likely that your role is close to what you have stated, but if I were you, I would be working to achieve the first win condition rather than the second by virtue of the number of town deaths so far over mafia deaths.

In any case, I think that a lynch on you today is unfavorable to town. However:

If you claim an uncontested kill on scum tomorrow morning, then town should accept your motivations as town-friendly and that you are working towards your second wincon.

If there are two or more townie deaths tomorrow morning, you should be lynched, or I will simply vig you if I am still alive.

Tell me if you think this proposition sounds fair to you, as a concise and reasonable way to judge your choice of wincon.

As far as the four townies go, if you think it's less scummy for me to claim which ones they are, alright.

Yukari Takeba, Mitsuru Kirijo, Fuuka Yamagishi and Aigis.

And for killing town: I suspect that there's just one scum left in the game. Our options are rather narrow (I don't think there's any real possibility that anyone besides SP/Eury/Junko/Breezy/kirsche is anti-town), and I think that adding my kill to the town's and having four shots at finding them than hoping I potshot the right townie, even if the flip turns up as one of my targets today. If it doesn't? There's not a bat's chance in hell of me attempting that.

Finally, as far as your proposition goes: that's what I was hoping for. Lynching me is suboptimal here because I'm forced into shooting scum even if I didn't think that was the quicker WC, and I'm very glad you agree with that.

I've already coordinated with Wen to a certain capacity and will use insomnia as needed in order to discreetly draw the protection I think I need towards me. I think we should discontinue publicly organizing our plans for tonight's protection, though.

Aye, it's slightly suboptimal, but protection is pretty much the only way that I'm going to fulfill my wincon (seeing as I lose if I die and Town wins). I'll leave it at that, and trust that the right people see it.

Screwing with the setup for a town win: it's what's for dinner!

---

Response time note: I'm gonna go get some food, then take care of another yard work assignment. I'll be around for another few minutes.

[Terrador]

Actually, I lied. I'm here for the rest of the evening, apparently.

[Green Poet]

I have no reason to claim this as a lie. If I was really a serial killer, I would fight tooth and nail against GP's and/or SP's claim from the start. Claiming this, only to turn around and shoot a townie-looking person, would be beyond stupid. Lying about this would mean loss for me, except I lose Day 3 rather than Day 2.

Um. I'm actually getting somewhat scummy vibes from this.

You don't account for the possibility that you are simply scum, trying to compose a fakeclaim justifying you being caught performing N1's nightkill. That, and your current top scumreads (Sky, Eury and Junko) could very well be town, and you killing them N2 is justifiable simply by saying "I stated before that they were my scumreads so implicitly that would comprise my kill list."

TL;DR - I'm not actually at all concerned that you're an SK moreso than simply fakeclaiming scum. We'll see, I guess :/

Yukari Takeba, Mitsuru Kirijo, Fuuka Yamagishi and Aigis.

Just sayin', I may have knowledge as to whom all of these are. If you kill me tonight, you risk losing the possibility of discovering this information as well as town's greatest asset in winning this game, which would severely hinder your chances of achieving either of your wincons.

Actually, I lied. I'm here for the rest of the evening, apparently.

look guys he was lying, such obvscum

[Terrador]

Um. I'm actually getting somewhat scummy vibes from this.

You don't account for the possibility that you are simply scum, trying to compose a fakeclaim justifying you being caught performing N1's nightkill. That, and your current top scumreads (Sky, Eury and Junko) could very well be town, and you killing them N2 is justifiable simply by saying "I stated before that they were my scumreads so implicitly that would comprise my kill list."

TL;DR - I'm not actually at all concerned that you're an SK moreso than simply fakeclaiming scum. We'll see, I guess :/

If I performed N1's nightkill, why in the world was it on Euklyd, and who killed Mitsuki? That seems like a very low-percentage scenario to me.

Just sayin', I may have knowledge as to whom all of these are. If you kill me tonight, you risk losing the possibility of discovering this information as well as town's greatest asset in winning this game, which would severely hinder your chances of achieving either of your wincons.

The flavor I have on you leads me to believe that you're not even on my list; further, you wouldn't give me that information, because you shouldn't. I'd honestly be disadvantaged if you did, because then I would be less likely to be trusted by town, and I already have scum breathing down my neck.

[Eurykins]

Ha, there IS an ITP in this game. Knew it. Gut feelings OP.

Yo, I'm getting worked pretty hard today (school, job interview, now yard work), but I'm gonna chip in a few things. No time to read in-depth the prior posts and respond to them, but I get the gist of what's going on.

I don't like that we're taking Sky_Paladin's claim at face value, seeing as he has no proof of this role (not even claimed his other JoaT abilities, so far as I can see--convenient, no? I think that taking setup speculation over the fact that I have a proven kill that looks town (if not perfectly so; I know some of you think bad decision = scum) is rather silly, but most of you don't seem to think like that.

THAT SAID, I suspect setup speculation is going to get me lynched, so try this on for size:

I'm not actually a town odd-night vigilante. I'm an ITP that can kill every night, and I have two win conditions:

A: To outlive four specific townies (two of whom I now know were Mitsuki and Shinori). If this is done, I am withdrawn from the game.

B: To survive until the end of the game. I have mod-confirmed that I can win with town.

1. This is true, though he did say he executed a night action with no meangingful results. Would like to hear about that.

2. I'm not sure how to feel about the first wincon; if the two who died were townies, and you need two more to die, does that imply that you needed 4 of us townies to die to satisfy your win con? Not exactly the most pro-town goal, imo.

3. Second wincon: You SURE about that? Seems awfully convenient to put forth; claim ITP that requires townie deaths to occur to complete. But on the bright side- you can side with townie and win! Just...what?

Will agree with the bolded section below in GP's post:

wrt Terrador.

This worries me. The implication here is that you win if two more townies die, and no one here but yourself knows who these townies are. You seem to phrase this claim as though you only learn whom the townies are posthumously, but none of us can confirm the truth behind this. It's possible that you know the four townies you need to win, or perhaps there are even only three, and you simply aren't telling us.

The fact that you've already demonstrated your capacity to fakeclaim parts of your role makes me apprehensive to trust your motivations. I think that it's likely that your role is close to what you have stated, but if I were you, I would be working to achieve the first win condition rather than the second by virtue of the number of town deaths so far over mafia deaths.

You've failed to inform us of this situation/information in at least two places:

A. SB's initial (fake) claim of ITP. If you were truly an ITP that could ally itself to acquire a town win, why didn't you seek to CC him at all? There's a good chance that there aren't multiple ITP's floating around, so why did you let him continue on without lifting a finger? (If you could TRULY win with town, you could not only clear yourself then, but continue to scum-hunt in town's best interests from thereon out.) And the fact that SB caught scum!Refa due to his actions does NOT excuse the the fact that you said nothing [the end result of catching scum bears no influence on why you stayed silent].

B. You lied to us about being odd-night Vig, and now you're telling us that you need MORE townies dead to satisfy your original win con.

I want you all to remember this: I have no reason to shoot town or misdirect same. I have no investigative role, so I have no idea which townies are which. However, we do have scum narrowed down to some degree, so I'm much closer to that win condition. Shooting scum is the wise option for me, especially since more than one kill being on a non-shady person would result in me getting killed next Day phase.

Original win con contradicts underlined portion.

Shooting town also serves to push your original win con ahead. Shooting scum serves to save your own ass. Common sense.

I have no reason to claim this as a lie. If I was really a serial killer, I would fight tooth and nail against GP's and/or SP's claim from the start. Claiming this, only to turn around and shoot a townie-looking person, would be beyond stupid. Lying about this would mean loss for me, except I lose Day 3 rather than Day 2.

You have EVERY reason to lie now that your neck is potentially on the line. What better reason than to save your own skin by offering a means of appeasing townies by cooperating with them? Ezpz survival instincts/logics.

Underlined 2: No you wouldn't. Because that would've drawn obvious attention onto you. In addition, GP's claim was VERIFIED by Wen (and vice versa with Wen to GP). You would be stupid to try and fight against that. SP's claim is merely frosting on the cake (though we can't say for sure if he was honest, or if it served a means in pushing for your lynch). So the fact that you let their claims coast on by is EXACTLY what you'd want to do.

Italicized: Whoops, look what happened to Shinori. Also, who says you have to nail someone 'townie-looking'? All you have to do is aim for someone you thought was suspicions, and there you go- you have a semi-safe kill to conduct. (And if others agree, who can disagree with your vig shot of choice?)

Go ahead, ISO me. I've been actively scumhunting all game long, and I have a proven town-looking kill under my belt. I want to re-iterate, one last time: trying to tack on a town-favoring WC, then not directing my kill and thread attention at actually scummy players, would very quickly result in my loss.

I'm formally requesting martyr or bodyguard protection at this point, as well. I know Green Poet needs protecting, too; seeing as Marth doesn't trust me as far as he can throw me, I imagine that duty will go to the doctor.

Townie-looking actions/posting is what any good ITP would want to do. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb and paint yourself red and dance around in front of us with ITP on your forehead. You having played the townie role/persona isn't of any surprise, since you've clearly lied to us already on multiple occasions.

Underlined: Nice way of funneling/attempting to funnel protection from town. Not only are you making night town actions predictable to read, but also ensures that, if the protection roles out there are spent on you or GP, no one else is protected during the night phase. I see what you did there.

Thank you for your patience. I apologize for lying earlier, but I genuinely thought it would keep mafia eyes off me. With the threat of lynch pressing so close and setup speculation becoming so critical, though, I felt I couldn't keep this quiet any longer.

One last note: I have confirmed with Elieson that, if SB were to visit me (even though his death doesn't benefit my win condition), he would die. Make of that what you will; it weakens the case on Eury, but I can't see why SB would visit me over her unless he pulled a Wen and knew I had a power role.

Speaking of, one last thing. @Wen: Would you know if anyone visited me Night 1? Or do you just know whom I visited?

Obviously you wanted EVERYONE'S eyes off of you and the fact that you're a night-killing ITP.

Convenient claims are convenient under pressure/the threat of being lynched.

--------

I dunno. I'm not sold at all with Terrador's claim, tbh. And the fact that the win con jumps from "Townies dying to satisfy this wincon" to "Oh, but it's okay- you can survive WITH town and still win!" seems pretty awkward/unlikely. You may as well have been a townie in itself to begin with if it'd be so easy to side and earn a victory that way.

And in lieu of the confession in itself + the fact that I'd rather keep Sky around (despite unproven JoAT shot/role):

##Unvote

##Vote Terrador

[Green Poet]

Finally, as far as your proposition goes: that's what I was hoping for. Lynching me is suboptimal here because I'm forced into shooting scum even if I didn't think that was the quicker WC, and I'm very glad you agree with that.

Huh, I honestly wasn't expecting this level of cooperation. Okay, who do you think we can consolidate a lynch on today?

If I performed N1's nightkill, why in the world was it on Euklyd, and who killed Mitsuki? That seems like a very low-percentage scenario to me.

Euklyd's general read was ambiguous, whereas Mitsuki would've been a very implicating kill if you were caught. You managed to convince a lot of us here that Euklyd was a misvig made with good intentions, whereas you would not be able to do this on a proven mayor. As things stand, this is as likely a scenario as your current claims being true.

Speaking of which, could you just fullclaim? Your initially not telling us the four names of the people you need dead for your first wincon seems like you understating your role again to avoid being lynched, and it only makes you seem scummier over time. One of the things I'd like to know specifically is if those four people are explicitly confirmed town by your PM.

pedit: Now, just how did I guess that Eury would vote you...? Going to parse through that wall in just a bit.

[Green Poet]

Eury, what do you think about my proposition for Terrador?

If you claim an uncontested kill on scum tomorrow morning, then town should accept your motivations as town-friendly and that you are working towards your second wincon.

If there are two or more townie deaths tomorrow morning, you should be lynched, or I will simply vig you if I am still alive.

Do you really think potentially sacrificing one townie isn't worth the confirmation of a nightvig's alignment and the possibility of killing one mafioso?