VincentASM Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 So we know how Blossom in FE9 affects growth rates (at least we think so...), but the same can't be said for FE10's Blossom. The easiest, but probably tedious, way to solve this issue is to Level Up different characters multiple times with Blossom and see, empirically, how the growth rates have changed (if at all). Unfortunately, as some people may know, I don't have a means of playing FE10, so I need a few volunteers to do the testing for me. The method of testing probably doesn't really matter. You can either play through the whole game and record the stats of a Blossom'd character at each Level (slower, but probably more fun) or you could BEXP a character until they have 99 EXP, make them Level Up in the chapter (and repeat). It might also be helpful for some people to agree on the same character to use, so we can stack up some numbers. Some interesting characters to use: Rafiel or Leanne (because of their 0% Str growth), Kurthnaga (95% Str growth). Meanwhile, I think I'll try testing something in FE9 that is slightly related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I'll check to see if I have an appropiate save file on FE10 (i.e. one with Blossom and a character with 90 exp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nflchamp Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) I could do some of this. I'll test it on some GMs as I'm in Part 3 right now. I have to go to school in the next few minutes, so if you want me to test anyone specific just tell me. Edit: How many trials do you want for each character? Edited April 8, 2010 by nflchamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 I'm not sure if it's too tedious for the person trying, but 20 for each character will suffice for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I'd help but my only save is already in the tower and you'll probably have your data before I get another one to Blossom. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Okay, I tested Elincia 20 times, and she procced: HP 16 times STR 16 times MAG 11 times SKL 17 times SPD 19 times LUK 17 times DEF 7 times RES 9 times I may test some others later. Maybe someone with less h4x growths, like Tibarn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) Thanks : ) Original growth -> Effective growth with Blossom (# of tests) 20 -> 35% (20) 35 -> 45% (20) 40 -> 55% (20) 45 -> 80% (20) 50 -> 85% (20) 60 -> 85% (20) 65 -> 80% (20) 70 -> 95% (20) There's still plenty of room for error, but it looks promising. Edited April 8, 2010 by VincentASM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Speaking of growths like Kurthnaga's, I have a request with this test as well if anyone doesn't mind. Slap Blossom on Kurth, because I think he would make the easiest test. Now, someone feed him BEXP and find out if he can actually manage to get a +2 for HP in a BEXP level. If so, if this works the way I think it does, those with at least 75% growths should be capable of the same (though clearly not as often). However, I'm guessing that isn't quite likely, but I figured I'd throw that suggestion out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I think I have at least one save in endgame, which I'll use to train Kurthnaga. I'll try and do it tonight, but no guarantees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I don't have time now, but I'd be willing to check my saves later and see if I can help. I'm pretty sure I have one at 4-2 with Blossom, so I should be able to use that at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrodon Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Rafiel gained 25 levels. HP: 21 str: 0 mag: 15 skl: 5 spd: 11 lck: 20 def: 6 res: 22 [spoiler=raw data (in case I miscounted)]HP mag lck res HP mag spd res HP mag lck res HP lck res mag lck res HP skl lck res HP mag spd lck def res skl res HP skl def HP spd lck res HP mag spd lck def res HP mag spd lck res HP mag skl spd lck HP mag spd res HP mag lck res HP skl spd lck def HP mag lck res HP mag lck res HP mag lck res mag spd lck res HP spd res HP lck def res spd lck def res HP lck res HP mag lck res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 Thanks ^^ Current progress: Original growth -> Effective growth with Blossom (# of tests) 0 -> 0% (25) 10 -> 22% (50) 20 -> 39.5% (45) 35 -> 45% (20) 40 -> 57.5% (45) 45 -> 80% (20) 50 -> 86.5% (45) 60 -> 83% (70) 65 -> 80% (20) 70 -> 95% (20) I'm not completely sure at this stage, but I think the model proposed by Wonder Egg (a fairly popular Japanese FE site) seems to be true. If a character has Blossom, supposedly if a stat fails to increase, the game will roll a 2nd RN to give you a second chance to increase that stat. There's some evidence (from RNG abusing) for this being true in FE9 Random mode (I'm almost at the chapter with Sothe to test this), but I don't think there's any for this game. For reference, if a second RN is rolled, the growth rates get modified as such: 0 -> 0% 10 -> 19% 20 -> 36% 35 -> 57.75% 40 -> 64% 45 -> 69.75% 50 -> 75% 60 -> 84% 65 -> 87.75% 70 -> 91% I haven't calculated the standard deviations yet, but I like how the experimental 60 -> 83% (the one with the more tests) is just 1 off from the theoretical 60 -> 84%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 [maths]Assuming that's correct, then for a growth g, the chance of a stat going up, P, is P = g + (1-g)*g, or simplified, P = g(2-g) = 2g - g2. Obviously then, the largest increase proportionally is for 5% growths, which almost double, and the smallest is for 95% growths, which increase by about 1/20th. In terms of largest growth jump which I'll call Q, Q = g - g2, thus dQ/dg = 1 - 2g, and the largest increase therefore must be for a growth of 50%, with a symmetry about g = 50%.[/maths] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I'll do it, i have a current easy mode playthrough so i can do it with out it being too slow. Quick question though who or where do you get blossom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I'll do it, i have a current easy mode playthrough so i can do it with out it being too slow. Quick question though who or where do you get blossom? One of the tents in 3-3 has it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 One of the tents in 3-3 has it. Good, i haven't missed it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) In retrospect... if my file hasn't saved after using all it's bexp, it's probably sold Blossom anyway... plus I don't have time anymore, so... sorry :(. Edited April 8, 2010 by Black Bomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Oh, you get it in 3-3? I'm already there, I could just swing by, grab it and test it on chapter 3-4. However, a thought occured. As for it's use and who would enjoy having it the most...who exactly would it be? Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 We still have no data for 5%, 15%, 25%, 30%, 55%, and everything above 75%, although 75+ growths would need extremely high numbers of tests for the character to miss them even once. Maybe Mist, she has 25% STR/DEF and 55% SKL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Ulki has 3 25's and two 30's so I'll test him now. Results later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) Well, if the 2RN thing works, then: 5% -> 9.75% 15% -> 27.75% 25% -> 43.75% 30% -> 51% 55% -> 79.75% 75% -> 93.75% 80% -> 96% 85% -> 97.75% 90% -> 99% 95% -> 99.75% Which would mean only one stat up could be done at one time for Kurth (poor him). Only thing to do would be to check this data. Some good untis to use to check these growths: Kurthnaga: 95% HP, 15% Mag, 25% Def Tibarn: 75% HP, 5% Mag Brom: 80% HP, 5% Mag, 30% Spd, 25% Res Muarim: 55% Str, 5% Mag, 55% Luck Micaiah: 80% Mag, 80% Luck, 90% Res Kyza: 85% HP, 5% Mag, 15% Res Check all of these and the missing links should be checked enougth. Edited April 8, 2010 by The Syobon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nflchamp Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Here's some Ike data Levels - 21 HP - 18 STR - 16 MAG - 7 SKL - 20 SPD - 8 LCK - 11 DEF - 9 RES - 7 It's 21 levels because I failed at counting my tallies while doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I got the 75% and higher growths, as I have Soren with his 80% Mag growth. Will test that now, 20 times. Will be back with the data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) Nfl champ, it appears Ike's bases have suddenly dropped. Why? Edited April 8, 2010 by The Syobon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) I've got the results for Ulki out of 20 tests: HP: 18 Str: 8 Mag: 10 Skl: 8 Spd: 12 Lck: 10 Def: 12 Res: 8 Ulki's growth-test growth: HP: (65-90%) Str: (25-40%) Mag: (30-50%) Skl: (25-40%) Spd: (40-60%) Lck: (35-50%) Def: (30-60%) Res: (25-40%) [spoiler=Level by level data]1. HP, Mag, Skl, Spd, Def, Res HP, Mag, Spd, Lck, Def HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Def, Res HP, Mag, Skl, Spd, Lck HP, Str, Mag, Skl, Spd, Lck, Res HP, Str, Mag, Lck, Def, Res HP, Mag, Lck Mag, Def, Res HP, Str, Def 10. Str, Spd, Lck, Def, Res HP, Spd, Lck, Def HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Def HP, Spd, Lck, Def, Res HP, Str, Mag, Skl, Spd, Lck, Def HP, Str, Mag, Skl, Spd, Res HP, Spd, Def HP, Skl, Res HP, Mag, Lck HP, Str, Mag, Skl, Spd 20. HP, Spd, Lck, Def Also, on my current save I have the following to test later if needed: Micaiah, Sothe (Lck capped), Sanaki, Sigrun, Skrimir, Naesala, Leanne, Astrid (Mag/Def capped), Marcia, Ulki, Nephenee, Mia (Def capped), Nealuchi, Haar (Skl/Def capped), Makalov, Tanith, Lethe, Mordecai, Zihark. Edited April 8, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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