Espinosa Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I read that a rigged 20 magic Ike helps shave off several turns from the game's completion? I've only tried seriously LTCing the first 8 or so chapters of this game, so it's somewhat of a mystery to me how Ike being able to counter enemies affects things to such an extent. Are the turns saved from routs only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Aeine is the one who did this. Im pretty sure it only saves 2 turns. Petrine's map and the map after you get the Rune Sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I believe it also saves a turn in Tauroneo's map as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 No. Aeine used an armourslayer in Tauroneo's map. The SS is not needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) /namechange I used it for Chapters 23, 25 and 27. I don't know if it's necessary for 27. Runesword Ike pretty much clears everything there is though. It definitely cuts a turn from 23 and 25 because of the 2-range users there. In 23 everything blocks the way to Petrine if you have a regular 1-range Ike, because there's a crapload of 2-range cavaliers. Same thing in 25, except it's a rout rather than a seize. Edited January 13, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aku chi Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Couldn't a trained Boyd replicate Sonic Sword Ike's performance in C25? Basically, Boyd would do what your Ike did and Ike would do what your Mia did on the chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Couldn't a trained Boyd replicate Sonic Sword Ike's performance in C25? Basically, Boyd would do what your Ike did and Ike would do what your Mia did on the chapter. Seems like it'd work. So the Sonic Sword only cuts one turn for certain. Edited January 14, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Interesting. What's Mia's unique utility by the way? Can't Ike, Makalov and maybe Tanith do whatever sword things you want Mia to do? Ike is forced unto you anyway, while Makalov and Tanith are mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Interesting. What's Mia's unique utility by the way? Can't Ike, Makalov and maybe Tanith do whatever sword things you want Mia to do? Ike is forced unto you anyway, while Makalov and Tanith are mounted. Boyd/Soren can replace Mia/Ilyana. I just like Mia because of her hit support with Ilyana, so I don't reset as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ah okay. I thought it had something to do with Armorslayer or something. Then again Boyd does get Hammer (with which he hardly ever doubles for a while). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Mia's 'unique utility' in regards to magic swords is her ability to get a decent MT with the magic blades normally and further augment it via the SM crit rate and vantage. Normally Mia can net up to 12 MAG at 20/20 with her average, unmodified, stats. In of itself that's not terribly impressive, but if Mia opts to take the Mage Band she can get that up to 15-16 MAG (obviously less at lower levels). Mia, as a fire-element supporter, also gains additional attack and is unique among the mono-sword users for getting a corresponding attack boost from fellow supporter Rhys. Ike can only get +2 attack via a Soren/Reyson support, Zihark only gets 1 from a Mordi support, Stefan 1 from a Soren support, and Lucia gets none (please note that I do not consider Mist or Elincia a mono-sword user due to their access to staves or Makalov due to him gaining a weapon post-promotion). Mia, however, can get +4 attack from a Rhys/Ilyana support which is a notable improvement and makes her unique among the mono-sword users in that she has a viable 2-range attack before Ragnell. In addition, Swordmasters have a naturally high SKL and get +15 critical on promotion. While this is hardly 'reliable' it is a distinct edge. Mia also possesses an innate vantage skill. Vantage combos well with wrath and adept which both help out in having a sword-user kill with the SS. Wrath gives Mia 50 critical which means she will have ~70% with it active and adept gives her a chance for an additional strike to aid in killing foes since the SS is not exactly the strongest weapon. BEFORE PEOPLE START COMPLAINING! It should be noted that this does NOT mean that SS Mia is optimal, merely viable. It requires that the player make several 'non-optimal' concessions (Giving Mia a mage band for one sword, fielding Rhys and Ilyana and keeping them in support-range), and relies a lot on giving Mia either wrath (preferably) or adept (less preferable) for the mere novelty of having a sword-user preform well at 2-range combat. Tanith can perform adequately and can fall back on lances for two-range combat (including the flame lance) and Mist can perform acceptably as well. While I personally believe SS Mia is better than either, there is no denying that SS Mia also takes more effort to build and is not worth it to tier players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Perhaps not too relevant in NM/HM, but in MM it's possible that the Sonic Sword makes dealing with the Wyvern swarms much easier. For example, a Chpt 19 Wyvern Lord with 43 Hp/22 Def/9 Res, you need 44 physical att, which needs 31 effective Str with a +5 mt Hand Axe, so really only Boyd + Supports can manage, and he's likely not at max str yet. On the other hand, you only need 31 magical att, which only requires just 11 magic with the effective damage, which is possible with Mage Band + Spirit Dust for Ike and such. Ike even starts with growth points in Mag for Fixed. It might actually be a good idea for me to try Mage Band Ike in my LTC/MM/Fixed run? >_>. I'd imagine without Forge Glitch, it's one of the few ways to consistently orko the lategame Wyverns (Sages might, but are fragile). Ike tends to max Str/Skl/Spd/Def pretty easily. It'd be most relevant C25 I think; I might try it. Tanith exists too. Edited January 15, 2013 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Wow Snowy, you just completely missed the point of this thread. Like really bad. Nothing you said was on topic... No one said anything about "Mia's 'unique utility' in regards to magic swords". The OP wanted to know how many turns a 20 MAG Ike could save in a LTC playthrough. A 20 MAG Ike or Boyd with a max hand axe forge isn't needed for Chp 25, a highly leveled Sage (I used Soren with Adept and Vantage) can completely wipe out the top of the mountain. In a draft, I was able to kill every enemy except for the Purge!Bishop in 2 turns (Obviously I got a 3 turn clear). My team was Ike, Titania, Reyson, Kieran, Tanith, Soren, Nephenee, Haar, Ranulf, Rolf, Devdan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 a highly leveled Sage (I used Soren with Adept and Vantage) can completely wipe out the top of the mountain I wouldn't do that with the accurate tigers around, among others. It might actually be a good idea for me to try Mage Band Ike in my LTC/MM/Fixed run? I'd do Random. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'd imagine Vantage/Adept/Crit effectively multiplies hit rates by ~60%. Which, combined with weak FE9 enemies, led to that clear. Plus, if rigging Ike's magic, why not rig Soren's Hp/Def? >_> And I like Fixed mode a lot. I'll let others do a true minimum LTC in random. I'm just weighing the potential Sonic Sword use vs. few Str/Def points Ike would otherwise get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) There's really no point to doing an LTC in fixed--you can't get Boyd/Oscar the stats needed to 4-turn Chapter 7; you can't get 20 magic Ike for Chapter 23; you can't get Marcia good enough stats for boss kills, and so on. If you really like fixed go ahead, but you could lose a dozen turns from that. Edited January 16, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I'm not at all concerned with the minimum TC. I think it's more interesting to consider strategies given roughly average stats. People do draft or challenge LTC runs not using the optimum characters. I see Fixed as just another category for efficiency/LTC play. Also, I doubt there's any chance for a 4 turn C7. The enemies were quite hard even in my first run, where Boyd/Oscar/Ike/Soren got way more exp than in a LTC run. The enemy density in C23 is much higher near Petrine and Ike likely can't orko them with just 30 mag att. Bexp is much less in general. I'm talking about Maniac. <_< Edited January 16, 2013 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aku chi Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If you really like fixed go ahead, but you could lose a dozen turns from that. LOL exaggeration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 LOL exaggeration. I was comparing it to my RNG-abused playthrough. At least one turn is lost from each of Chapter 7, 21, 23, 25, 26, 27, 28 and 29. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 ^ Wrong I did Chp 7 in 4 turns on fixed mode. My Chp 25 clear I was talking about was with a limited draft team on fixed mode. (Btw way a 20/20 Soren faces <50% hitrates from Tigers and <25% hitrates from everything else. Not to mention a ~50% chance to kill enimies before they get to attack with Vantage and a Max crit thunder forge.) Neither Chp 26 or 29 require Random growths. And a 20/20 Soren should be able to fulfill the role needed for Chp 27 unless his 6 movement is too low. So random growths saves a total of 3 maybe 4 turns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Okay, I'll admit I overestimated random mode's effectiveness. My Chp 25 clear I was talking about was with a limited draft team on fixed mode. (Btw way a 20/20 Soren You can only use a proper LTC playthrough to talk about a Chapter 25 clear. I'd still say random mode saves a turn from 25 because there isn't that much exp to go around in a proper LTC playthrough. Also, my 2-turn of 26 requires random. I guess 29 doesn't. Assuming a turn is saved from each of 21, 23, 25, 26, 27, 28, that's 6 turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) If Soren is picked to be the one to promote in Chp 9 for the 6 turn clear he can easily reach a high enough LV for Chp 25. And just becauase your strategy for Chp 26 requires random, it doesn't mean its impossible for fixed. Edited January 16, 2013 by Hawk King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 In addition, Swordmasters have a naturally high SKL and get +15 critical on promotion. While this is hardly 'reliable' it is a distinct edge. Mia also possesses an innate vantage skill. Vantage combos well with wrath and adept which both help out in having a sword-user kill with the SS. Wrath gives Mia 50 critical which means she will have ~70% with it active and adept gives her a chance for an additional strike to aid in killing foes since the SS is not exactly the strongest weapon. Wrath shouldn't be given to her. Only Ike, Ena should get this as it helps save lots of turns against the last boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Wrath shouldn't be given to her. Only Ike, Ena should get this as it helps save lots of turns against the last boss. Don't care. Ike is still able to nail the boss with Resolve+Vantage anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 There's really no point to doing an LTC in fixed--you can't get Boyd/Oscar the stats needed to 4-turn Chapter 7 There's most certainly a point in developing highly reliably low-turn strategies for an efficient run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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