FE5 Tier List

[Mekkah]

This is not for SSS, since SSS isn't playing the game as much as repeatedly abusing savestates to get move again, movement growth, etc.

Things that matter:

- Stats, durability more than offense, concrete more than avoid

- Utility in staves, ferrying, flying, etc

- Availability

- Prf things, leadership stars, movement stars, etc

Resource consumption is valued against opportunity cost.

WRT +/- utility: performance over the whole game is weighed, as otherwise we are reflecting a 100% efficiency playthrough, and not the actual value of a unit throughout the game. However, a time where you are bad weighs less against a unit if your good part is before your bad part.

-Top-

Saphy

Othin

Fin

Fergus

Halvan

Shiva

Rifis

Pahn

Lara

-High-

Nanna

Brighton

Asvel

Tina

Dean

Homer

Salem

Linoan

Sara

Sleuf

Karin

-Upper Mid-

Dagda

Leaf

Machua

Carrion

Hicks

Sety

Galzus

Mareeta

Olwen

Eyrios

-Lower Mid-

Tanya

Amalda

Delmud

Xavier

Dalshien

Glade

Fred

Robert

Trewd

Selphina

Kein

Alva

Ralph

-Low-

Cyas

Eyvel

Marty

Ronan

Conomore

-Bottom-

Misha

Shanam

Eda

Miranda

Edited December 22, 2009 by Mekkah

[TheEnd]

... I can't see why an early-joining archer bow fighter with 3 movement stars would be classified as a Shanam-level useless unit. Sure, he has low STR growth, but that's why you get scrolls.

Edited November 27, 2008 by TheEnd

[Fia]

This...is going to be hard...

I can't give you my list, but I consider Seluf, Sara, and Sety (as much as I want to deny it, I can't. The guy is just too overpowered) as the permanent residents of my top category.

I'll think of the rest later... >_<

... I can't see why an early-joining archer bow fighter with 3 movement stars would be classified as a Shanam-level useless unit.

Maybe because his stats aren't special? He often gets overshadowed by Tanya.

Though yes, I agree that he isn't supposed to be that low.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Tiltyu

[Mekkah]

His Str growth isn't low. Low is like, Nanna's 25%. Ronan's Str growth is 15%. That's absolute garbage. Barely more than Asvel's. And the only 30% Str scroll, Noba, comes very late (Xavier chapter). The other scrolls only give like 5-10%. With a base of 4, that's never going to end up being anywhere near reasonable.

He has more problems, like not being able to counter melee, so being an enemy magnet, and having absolutely atrocious defenses - his Mag is high, but his Luk and Def are retarded, and his HP is average at best.

Basically, he requires lots and lots of scrolling to be even passable. What he brings back is...Continue and movement. Yay.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Mekkah

[Swordsalmon]

Sety and Galzus need to move far down. They might be very good, but only exist for about three chapters. Machuya should be in Top Tier as well. Great stats, Ambush, and arrives in the Manster chapters.

Why is Salem so low? Pahn support him, and he has access to every magic in the game, including auto use of Restore.

EDIT: Shanam>Ronan. While Ronan is fairly decent for the first few chapters, Shanam's Bargain is incredibly useful for buying Knight Proofs and some of the stronger weapons while conserving precious money for later on.

That's all I see for now other than Ralph not getting enough love. I do like Hicks' very high position, though. <3

Edited November 27, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[Mekkah]

SS, you know this list is in alphabetical order within tiers, right?

Galzus to Mid I could understand maybe, but Sety is just too valuable. 17 base Mag + leadership + lolSety + A staves...70% of what makes Linoan/Sara so good is those last few chapters, particulary 24x. Galzus is less wowzers, but he can still take an entire portion of the Final by himself. His powerlevel compared to your other fighters is too enormous to measure. Though he has even less availability than Sety, so yeah.

I suppose Salem could do with High for similar reasons as other staff users. He wouldn't be very high up there though...his hit with Yotsmung is awful, and his Def/Luk are beyond saving.

[Swordsalmon]

I didn't relise that, sorry. :( Nevermind about the changes, except for Salem. Especially since Staves increase Fatigue greatly.

[GTF234]

Salem doesn't HAVE to use Yotsmung, he can use regular magic all the same, having a D rank in all three at base. Dark magic in my opinion is more of an added bonus than his primary option. It's got raw power behind it, so it has its uses when you really need to do damage over anything else- very few tomes beat Yotsmung in straight Might. Salem's overall pretty darn versatile though and he comes with a C rank for his staves, which is better than what Nanna or a promoted Asvel or Homeros will have to work with.

Furthermore, he's got much better HP than the other staff spammers, also ends up with better Def due to a very nice +4 on promotion (more than Saphy, Tina, or Sleuf can brag about)- 11 by 20/20. The rest of his growths aren't so particularly slow and since this appears to consider the ability to scroll whore, he's fine with Mag, Skl, Spd.

Def is savable since he's got 15% growth, and most of your magic users and some of your ranged units are around that level in Def growth; it's more savable than Asvel, Saphy, Tina, Sleuf, etc are in Def- Salem ties with Homeros on average in Def. His Luk is a different story, that's about as savable as Ronan's Def- that is to say, a bad joke.

I could agree with Salem going up a rank, if only barely making it on that list. The terrible Luk will hold him down in performance compared to the Luk-whores without a doubt, but he's got a lot of versatility in being able to use Fire, Thunder, Wind, Dark and Staff magics. Aside from the Luk, his other stats are pretty good when stacked against those of his ilk and his growths are solid enough to make scroll abusing pretty easy on him.

Ronan, he's fine where he is. Continue and 3 movement stars is nice and all, but Tanya trumps him in just about all stats except Mag. Being able to tank magic attacks is nice, but he doesn't have the stats to do much more than sit there and take it. Pitiful Str, HP, and Def. Even his Spd isn't thrilling, yeah 55%'s good, but he's got a 7 base and the only way he's killing anything is through quantity of attacks through Continue; also compare to Tanya's 10 base and 70%. I admit, he's amusingly awesome as a mage killer if you can scroll abuse him to something good- but it's a crapload of effort and personally, I don't find it genuinely worth the effort.

Edited November 27, 2008 by GTF234

[Icon of Sin]

B route is assumed for this tier list, since you gain an extra character (assuming you got Olwen, and since Olwen is amazing...), and the extra Pugi is cool and stuff.

Actually even if you kill Olwen and go on the A route, you get the same amount of characters there, since it's basically Olwen, Shanam, Miranda and Conomore vs. Eyrios, Sleuf, Misha and Amalda. Though I'd agree to go to the B route since it's easier overall and the extra Pugi is nice which outweighs the usefulness of the better A route units, IMO. If you had to tier them, probably Sleuf in high and the other 3 in Mid.

As for the tier list itself, I'm a bit puzzled by Trewd's placement. He comes midgame when you already have Shiva as a competant swordfighter and Mareeta is getting much better by the minute. Granted, his stats show him as tankier but Shiva already has Sunlight Sword for that. He also needs a Knight Proof and while he does have Nihil, I'm not sure if you really want him to face someone like Reinhart. Finally, Swordmasters also have a class power of 5 ( the highest along with Sages, Barons, Berserkers and maybe Dark Bishops ) which means he grows slower, and you should already be using Shiva, Mareeta and Asvel on top of that. In short, while I do think he's far from the crap pile, he's more like a Mid tier character to me with all the competition for an early Knight Proof or with his fellow Swordmasters.

[TheEnd]

So I'm really the only one who sees something wrong with Tanya = Selphina > Ronan?

I don't know, but a fragile unit with Charge in FE5 is just... huh.

[Icon of Sin]

So I'm really the only one who sees something wrong with Tanya = Selphina > Ronan?

I don't know, but a fragile unit with Charge in FE5 is just... huh.

That and the weak growths and bases ( Roberto's bases are similar, sometimes even higher and he's 7 levels under ). The only thing she has on him is the two supports with Glade and Leaf and getting that sexy Hero Bow since Duel isn't likely to happen very often. Finally, she needs a Knight Proof and there's the "she can only uses bows and therefore cannot counter at melee" crap, even if she's more of a hit-and-run unit.

Bottom tier request?

Edited November 27, 2008 by Captain Falcon

[Super Mecha Death Christ]

I'd say 80% of the characters can be saved with scrolls. I think rating Thracia 776's characters is silly. I could easily get Leaf with near 20 in all stats plus Moonlight Hit and a whole slew of other crazy ass skills. There are some not worth it, but most can tough it out.

[Mekkah]

Salem doesn't HAVE to use Yotsmung, he can use regular magic all the same, having a D rank in all three at base.

My only point was that the extra availability of Dark tomes doesn't help him much. I'm aware he does fine with Wind.

If you had to tier them, probably Sleuf in high and the other 3 in Mid.

iono, I always find it kind of assy to value how much taking B route hurts you compared to A route. Getting Eyrios means not getting Olwen, which hurts him in a way similar to how Karel is always ranked very low due to not getting Harken (and I'd say Olwen is relatively better than Harken, too). Amalda, yeah, staves + 1 leadership is nice. Sleuf is very cool indeed. Misha seems pretty awful though.

As for the tier list itself, I'm a bit puzzled by Trewd's placement. He comes midgame when you already have Shiva as a competant swordfighter and Mareeta is getting much better by the minute.

Sorting by classes means nothing to me. Sisters, Swordmasters, Heroes and Sages are all awesome. They're the best classes, using more can't really hurt.

I've never heard of the EXP thing, since SF doesn't have the EXP formula for this game. But from my experience, your growth speed matters very little after promoting, especially for these fellows. They have Continue, their huge PCC with their maxed Skl and Spd. Not much can stop them anymore.

Trewd starts out pretty decent, able to double and with A swords. Granted, he's no Halvan, Homer or Karin, but he's definitely cool enough.

I will move up Salem and move down Galzus.

That and the weak growths and bases ( Roberto's bases are similar, sometimes even higher and he's 7 levels under ). The only thing she has on him is the two supports with Glade and Leaf and getting that sexy Hero Bow since Duel isn't likely to happen very often. Finally, she needs a Knight Proof and there's the "she can only uses bows and therefore cannot counter at melee" crap, even if she's more of a hit-and-run unit.

Bottom tier request?

I forgot how much Charge sucks for Selphina, though it's notable that she can use it to her advantage against things that do not counter her. But she gets raped badly, soz...Bottom tier go.

I'd say 80% of the characters can be saved with scrolls. I think rating Thracia 776's characters is silly. I could easily get Leaf with near 20 in all stats plus Moonlight Hit and a whole slew of other crazy ass skills. There are some not worth it, but most can tough it out.

Yes, you can. You can do similar things in other FEs, to lesser extent (give rings to people in FE4, give stat boosters to people in FE678, give BEXP to people in 9 and 10, etc). Obviously needing it > not needing it, though. And I already noted I'm not factoring stats in as much as prf weapons, leadership, movement, steal utility, staves, yes or no on needing Knight Proof, etc.

[Swordsalmon]

As for the tier list itself, I'm a bit puzzled by Trewd's placement. He comes midgame when you already have Shiva as a competant swordfighter and Mareeta is getting much better by the minute. Granted, his stats show him as tankier but Shiva already has Sunlight Sword for that. He also needs a Knight Proof and while he does have Nihil, I'm not sure if you really want him to face someone like Reinhart. Finally, Swordmasters also have a class power of 5 ( the highest along with Sages, Barons, Berserkers and maybe Dark Bishops ) which means he grows slower, and you should already be using Shiva, Mareeta and Asvel on top of that. In short, while I do think he's far from the crap pile, he's more like a Mid tier character to me with all the competition for an early Knight Proof or with his fellow Swordmasters.

Trewd is pretty good. Swordmaster is an excellent class, Trewd gets Pahn support, and Awareness for a skill. Also, his growths are pretty great. He deserves High.

Misha seems pretty awful though.

Misha's alright. She has auto A in both Lances and Swords, which helps her weak Strength a bit. And of course, Chapter 19 is far easier with multiple fliers. ^_^

EDIT: Also, her base Magic is pretty high at 13. Using a Flame Sword or some other magical weapon makes Misha's offense fairly robust.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[Fia]

Getting Eyrios means not getting Olwen, which hurts him in a way similar to how Karel is always ranked very low due to not getting Harken (and I'd say Olwen is relatively better than Harken, too).

And don't forget, Daim Thunder + Holy Sword = Win.

Olwen can offer these two to use, what about Eyrios? Tron and Master Sword? Nah.

I will move up Salem and move down Galzus.

Why move him down?

Galzus deserves to be placed on High tier. Moonlight hit + Shooting Star = EPIC combo.

His stats aren't shabby either for being a Lv.20 promoted unit. And his weapon levels are A.

He is very useful even in Final Chapter.

Misha's alright. She has auto A in both Lances and Swords, which helps her weak Strength a bit. And of course, Chapter 19 is far easier with multiple fliers. ^_^

EDIT: Also, her base Magic is pretty high at 13. Using a Flame Sword or some other magical weapon makes Misha's offense fairly robust.

Agree. When Misha came, Karin might already surpass her in every stat.

But that's not mean Misha is useless, because she is still pretty decent to use.

And more flying unit = better, since flying units here are very useful.

[Mekkah]

Misha's alright. She has auto A in both Lances and Swords, which helps her weak Strength a bit. And of course, Chapter 19 is far easier with multiple fliers. happy.gif

EDIT: Also, her base Magic is pretty high at 13. Using a Flame Sword or some other magical weapon makes Misha's offense fairly robust.

Her defenses suck massively though. Ch19 is fun with more fliers, but all other outdoor maps left have tons and tons of ballistae. I suppose she's not worse than Delmud by enough to be Low tier, but bleh.

Why move him down?

Galzus deserves to be placed on High tier. Moonlight hit + Shooting Star = EPIC combo.

His stats aren't shabby either for being a Lv.20 promoted unit. And his weapon levels are A.

He is very useful even in Final Chapter.

He's not there because he isn't useful when you have him. He's by far one of the, if not the single best fighter unit ever. His problem is only being there for the practical end of Ch24, then 24x if you want to field a fighter with low Mag, and then only in Final. You'd have to argue that his one-and-some chapters is worth an entire tier over someone like Glade, who contributes a leadership star for the entire game.

Also, for Machua, she's like some kind of cross between Fergus and Halvan. I think she's good, but no wtfrape.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Kain and Alva are a tier worse than Trewd and Hicks? Hmmm.

Halvan for Top Tier, perhaps?

I'm thinking Conomore deserves Low. A meh unit lategame isn't as good as what Dagda and possible Eyvel do early on.

[Mekkah]

Kain and Alva are a tier worse than Trewd and Hicks? Hmmm.

This is a pretty good point I guess. But if Hicks moves down with Trewd, maybe Brighton should too.

Halvan for Top Tier, perhaps?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I may be a little biased due to personal experience, but he seems too similar to Fergus to be a tier below him...and then maybe I'd have to move Machua up too. That kind of clogs the Top tier.

I'm thinking Conomore deserves Low. A meh unit lategame isn't as good as what Dagda and possible Eyvel do early on.

iono, I like his leadership, but then again Eyvel has that too, and she keeps Nanna alive and stuff...but Conomore still sucks and gets raped by Charge occasionally, so he prolly will move down.

[Don Draper]

Alright, this tier list needs quite a bit of work. A few major problems I see with it

1) Its not ordered. A proper tier list should not be alphabetical, it should rank the characters in order of how useful they are.

2) High tier has about half the characters. Should be split into High and Upper Mid, with Mid being renamed Lower Mid.

3) You're missing characters. All the B route characters actually. I don't care which route you prefer, they should still be on there.

4) In a proper tier list, a character should be judged on his own merits. You can't put Cyas down because he's not as good as Sety. They should be judged individually. After all, nobody is going to have the same team every playthrough

5) There seems to be a bit too much personal experience involved. For example, Olwen in Top Tier is ridiculous.

6) In FE5, killing enemies is not a problem. It's surviving them. Therfore, characters like Mareeta should go down as their offense is overkill, while her defense is lacking. And remember, 1 RN means avoid is much less reliable then before.

7) Scrolls really shouldn't be considered. Essentially giving a character scrolls is favourtism.

So if I were to order the tier list, and split High, it would look something like this:

-Top-

Safy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Asvel

Rifis

Pahn

Fergus

[Mareeta]

[Olwen]

-High-

[Halvan]

[Lara]

Nanna

Brighton

Sara

Tina

Dean

Carrion

Homer

Linoan

Upper Mid

Sety

Galzus

Leaf

Karin

Salem

Machua

Trewd

[Hicks]

- Lower Mid-

Xavier

Kein

Alva

Robert

Dalsin

Delmud

Glade

Fred

[Conomore]

-Low-

[Cyas]

[Dagda]

Ralph

Eda

Eyvel

Miranda

Tanya

Bottom-

Marty

Selphina

Ronan

Shanam

Characters in Paranthesis, I think should change positions. Here's why:

Mareeta down to high, probably just below Dean. She comes in underlevelled, has a poor earlygame (In the chapter she comes, she's getting 2HKO'd and getting hit at 30-45%, that's not good with 1 RN), she loses speed from quite a few swords due to poor build, and has ho-hum defense.

Olwen way down, probably to Upper Mid somewhere. Her 20/20 stats are on par with Asvel's at Level 20/1. Daimthunder is terrible, as it weighs her down by 12, she has awful starting stats, she can't fight physically thanks to her awful build, she has awful defense, has a terrible start (Brigands double her in the chapter she comes thanks to how heavy Daimthunder is, I could go on but Olwen really is a mediocre character.

Halvan to top. His stats are on par with Olthin's, he has 4 CCR, has Ambush which is godly with a Hero Axe (he'll kill anything before they get a chance to hit him), and is an earlygame capturing-god. And he comes early. Top Tier for sure.

Lara to the top because her dancing a Warp staff user=beating any chapter in 1 turn. Amazingly useful for Chapter 22 for example.

Hicks down. His stats kind of suck, he has no skills, and only 2 CCR (Don't hurt me Swordsalmon)

I don't understand what makes Conomore so special.

Cyas up, because he's actually a pretty decent staff user. Any character with A in staves=Amazingly useful.

Dagda up to being very useful for capturing earlygame.

As to some other points people brought up:

Machya to top? Not at all. Ambush is useless when you have fail offense (Worse then Tanya's for gods sake), and she's not all that useful during the prison break chapters.

Brighton should stay where he is thanks to Wrath and good defense

And you need to include the characters from the other route.

Comment on anything you disagree with.

Edited November 28, 2008 by IOS

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

and then maybe I'd have to move Machua up too. That kind of clogs the Top tier.

And High Tier isn't crowded? >_>

7) Scrolls really shouldn't be considered. Essentially giving a character scrolls is favourtism.

Scrolls are there, and ignoring them is just silly. Giving one character scrolls and another not is favoritism, yes, but nobody suggested that AFAIK.

[Don Draper]

Giving ANY character scrolls is favourtism. Just like giving any character an Angelic Robe is favourtism. None of that is considered in tier lists.

If scrolls WERE considered, then characters with low build like Mareeta and Olwen, would plummit, as none of the scrolls really increase build by a significant amount.

[dondon151]

4) In a proper tier list, a character should be judged on his own merits. You can't put Cyas down because he's not as good as Sety. They should be judged individually. After all, nobody is going to have the same team every playthrough

7) Scrolls really shouldn't be considered. Essentially giving a character scrolls is favourtism.

Cyas comes with the penalty of not getting Sety (just as Sety comes with the penalty of not getting Cyas); shouldn't penalties be considered in a proper tier list as well as benefits?

I think scrolls being considered only puts more weight into join time, since the earlier the join time, the more use one has with scrolls. Comparing scrolls with stat-up items isn't exactly a fair comparison because scrolls aren't used up.

So yeah, long story short, if you have access to high level staves, there's no way you're anything below High tier.

Then why is Cyas in low tier >.>

Edited November 28, 2008 by dondon151

[TheEnd]

Scrolls aren't the same as rings, since they aren't one-use items. So, ignoring them altogether may not be the best approach, since there isn't much motive NOT to use them in an actual game.

Naturally, you can't consider how every character would be with 3-4 scrolls on them (lol perfect 20 stats). However, using one or two for fixing doesn't sound absurd to me.

(Unless, of course, someone is talking about fixing Machua with NOBA AND DAIN SCROLLS or giving Asvel a HEIM SCROLL FROM THE START, etc.)

Cyas comes with the penalty of not getting Sety (just as Sety comes with the penalty of not getting Cyas); shouldn't penalties be considered in a proper tier list as well as benefits?

Cyas gives everybody a 9% hit/avoid boost, too. It isn't like he's an useless replacement for Sety; his purpose as an unit is completely different.

Edited November 28, 2008 by TheEnd

[Don Draper]

So characters with poor offense or build would go down I suppose if scrolls were being considered because the former comes late, and the latter barely fixes it.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Giving ANY character scrolls is favourtism. Just like giving any character an Angelic Robe is favourtism. None of that is considered in tier lists.

If scrolls WERE considered, then characters with low build like Mareeta and Olwen, would plummit, as none of the scrolls really increase build by a significant amount.

You must frequent some odd tier lists.

It's not favoritism if both characters being compared get it or something roughly equivalent. Pretending you're not going to use stat-boosting items or scrolls is just lol.

And yeah, scrolls aren't used up.

Cyas comes with the penalty of not getting Sety (just as Sety comes with the penalty of not getting Cyas); shouldn't penalties be considered in a proper tier list as well as benefits?

If Sety is being penalized in the current list for preventing you from getting Cyas, it sure doesn't look like it. Having everyone else lose 6 Hit and Avoid in order to get a single unit as good as Sety is overall a good trade, but I don't think he would deserve High Tier anymore with that factored in. That kind of thing is a silly way of viewing it though, since it's harming both of their tier positions for no good reason. Just rank them each on their own merits. In which case Cyas would probably need to go up a tier, because A Staves and +9 Hit/Avoid to everyone is not Low Tier material.

And I second (Or was it third? Whatever.) the call for alternate route characters being included.