AbsoluteZer0Nova

Well as I brought up Dimitri earlier in a previous post adding onto him in his support with Ingrid which he does rectify later on in their A support as in their B support he explains himself at first poorly with Glen's death. I'm simply not getting your point at how other 3H characters illustration of of their lack of communication is what leads to consequences that have major re-precautions in you know... leading to people getting hurt like how or people dying.

So... you want me to pull from other sources of media with lack of communication leading to events happening where bloodshed/tragedy could have been avoided?

What exactly are you asking me then? I gave you an answer to how this lack of communication spiraled out of control until there was a full blown war which again some have more consequences than others. I wasn't even excluding Dimitri from the equation of this and as much as I like Dimitri's character arc narrative wise if I had to choose someone to follow it would be Claude. While that may be so with her not having one I've simply given you an explanation why while Edelgard and Lelouch are comparable that's a big reason why Lelouch has been met with a lot of praise to the point that I've seen not many people dislike him as opposed to Edelgard where it's 50/50 or something in that proximity. Also that Code Geass was an anime that spanned with a lot of episodes to flesh out Lelouch where as 3H only has so much especially in CF's case of having only 6 chapters compared to the others like it's bad enough that...

Exactly, she's actually my 2nd favorite antagonist behind Lyon and that is how I exactly see it for them. Again well written but only so much I can tolerate to the point if I had to really choose which lord to side with it wouldn't be her sad to say.

Well to answer both of you seeing as how both of them are part of the main conflict with Edelgard being the one who brings the story forward with the characters reacting to it as that's what an antagonist does with the protagonists reacting. Where as Rhea's not giving a completely truthful history while with good intentions over time begins to come to a boil with the water rising out the flood gates with this being the eventual result as Edelgard becomes a victim to it to an extent because of this warped story Rhea gave for everyone. Dimitri also does belongs in this, but he only then comes back to his senses and finally tries to have a open dialogue with Edelgard near the end of Azure Moon. It's just that some more than others with their lack of communication can have dire consequences that range to hurting/killing more people as Edelgard like it or not is the one who initiates the war which does just that. It's why a lot of people are going to naturally have more problems with her as opposed to Lelouch who wasn't acting, but reacting to Britannia and their misdeeds that haven't just affected him, but Japan. Adding onto that Code Geass had more time to make Lelouch sympathetic to agreeing with him given who he was facing and even when his own bad deeds happened they went out in trying to make him a redemption character that paid the price. Edelgard doesn't have that redemption story that Dimitri nor Lelouch have nor does she have the additional chapters that Crimson Flower should have had to better flesh her out in making more easily to side with, but I'm not going to beat a dead horse about it as I think everyone knows which group I'm talking about.

Don't see the problem is with me mentioning character flaws like lack of communication kills as I'm proving onto your point on how 3H is a tragedy. Edelgard's not the only one who embodies that very notion. Rhea herself is also in the same boat as it's no wonder she's the final boss for Crimson Flower as both Rhea and Edelgard are foils as are both Dimitri and Edelgard in Azure Moon. Rhea's lack of communication is what leads to a lot of the misunderstandings especially with what Cindered Shadows adds onto to its own Orson like character.

Also yes Edelgard gets accused by Dimitri of being the one who caused Duscur, but there is one problem with how she deals with the accusation. "I had nothing to do with that." Which to that I say okay, so how about you explain yourself? She doesn't do much to defend herself especially when she's paired up with those that slither who definitely hurt her character both figuratively and literally. It's why Jeralt calls her out in insisting the Flame Emperor comes with them for questioning, but she never does explain herself to not only Dimitri when he accuses her, but Claude too when he receives that letter from Hubert in how all of this bloodshed could have been avoided. Lack of communication kills is what Edelgard ends up doing throughout the story. The only time when Edelgard does explain her actions to Dimitri was in their debate during Azure Moon and that conversation between the two of them is what sold her better as antagonist as Dimitri himself said "I finally understand, what you believe to be is right" as she is believably written, but just because she is doesn't mean what she's doing is right as a Freudian Excuse only gets you so much of an... well excuse.

To what @Zeake stated earlier Crimson Flower definitely failed at putting Edelgard in a better light, it just made her actions to an extent understandable and nothing, but that. Edelgard just works so much better as an antagonist than a protagonist as sorry to say, but she isn't the best written morally gray person of 3H. That title I can say without question belongs to Rhea.

Speaking of polls I'll leave this here.

In any event Edelgard does drop for some people too as look here. After finishing the game she went from 4th to 7th. Then also here she's the 2nd most popular female but most hated character. What's interesting is that Lythesia someone whose backstory is similar to hers ends up being the more popular liked female and it shouldn't be a surprised given she doesn't take her tragic past out on the world as Edelgard does.

Not new in general yes but is certainly new for this series which gotta tell you it's about time they did it. I like seeing not only a character's arc and how they develop but how well they execute it and they hit the mark as last I can recall but correct me if I'm wrong but Dimitri is the 1st character if not lord in the series with ptsd which they show us in a scene with him talking to Glen and his stepmother and father about bringing Edelgard's head to them. Dimitri has a negative change arc to a positive change arc and is why gotta say he's my favorite main lord in the entire series now with his being a deconstruction of the Marth archetype. In regards to you further on about it being nothing new. This guy here in this video summarizes it at 3:50 to 5:42 to why there's nothing wrong with tropes. Edelgard herself is a part of the same trope to this series has been known for with it's Hardin/Arvis/Walhart archetype just that she can possibly be one that wins should you do her route but at the end of it all she's still the same trope this series has once before done so surely you view her the same as Dimitri in that case though like I said earlier having tropes isn't a bad thing.

Too bad you didn't enjoy what is I gotta say the best narrative and emotional arc as Holder of the Heel states over on this thread. Some of your points about the story not bringing up certain things is also neglected in Edelgard's path. Golden Deer is the closet you will get to that but still not a completion revealing everything considering Dimitri's path is the only one that brings up him and El being steb siblings. Also to add onto the Death Knight's death scene by having Mercedes and Caspar you can only apparently get this special scene on BL.

What you need to understand is that unlike the others who died in the tragedy of Duscur being countless soldiers, Glen, his stepmother and his father they all died full of despair and rage as shown in the flashback of a young Dimitri around countless dead/dying people engulfed by flames especially when his own father cries out shouting "avenge us!" so much wrapped in his emotions not realizing his son would be cursed by his final words, words in which Dimitri took to heart and mind making his sanity lapse in the process and Rodrigue's final words weren't a scar for him but what were instead his path to healing. What completely sums up Dimitri's tragic descent is this very line that he speaks which Byleth after touches them. "As the sole survivor of that day, do I... Do I have the right to live for myself?" when any normal person would say "Do I have the right to live WITH myself?" and there's a huge difference right there. He doesn't view his life to be his own and instead be the dead's avenger, their salvation as he tells Randolph in carrying out their screams so that they don't go unheard of which he most certainly has carried out their, his father's wishes and is something he criticizes Edelgard on in their meeting when he's brought back on the right path.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, but more so I like the hero character that rises up from their past/hatred or just in general not succumbing to despair. Characters in point being like Batman, Guts and Velvet which I can say Dimitri joins them especially since he's the 1st FE lord that is as I said earlier a deconstruction of the Marth archetype so about time we had a lord like that. I don't count Lucina despite that she does follow the not succumbing to despair but it doesn't change her in a tragic sense as the others do. Also don't see how I'm wrong as like I said in other places Edelgard uses her tragic past as justification to meet the end result she wants giving her a Freudian excuse but it doesn't make her right. The reason why I view Lelouch from Code Geass who has been compared to her in a brighter light is because most of the overwhelming he fought were racists and when he did kill some innocents he did felt regret for his actions while Edelgard on the other hand doesn't. I like Edelgard but as a character not as a person. She's my 2nd favorite antagonist to Lyon and while she does have good in her having shades of gray not all grays are equal as she steps more into darker gray.

Agreed, especially when Dimitri is suppose to be a deconstruction of the Marth arcehtype given his character development and then there's the fact his class of Lord goes to High Lord sounding similar to Chrom's Great Lord and other main lords prior. You have Ashe connected to Lonato, you have Sylvain connected to Miklan and you have Mercedes connected to Jeritza the Death Knight and but of course Dimitri connected to Edelgard being step siblings who both have a tragic past due to the ones who slither in the dark. Then add on the fact Edelgard is essentially the Hardin archetype character with others like Arvis and Walhart who have been on the opposing side and for Dimitri's path Edelgard is his foil like the others and their shared dynamic with their own opposition main lords of their games and she's red which for npcs are the enemies for the blue player control units. Claude on the other hand is the neutral ally type of character given his yellow though it's usually green in which for the other paths he's fittingly the 3rd party as such but the problem with what I would think would discredit GD being not canon is the fact it makes one of the three main lord characters dropped out of the story in a dull thoughtless way that really hurts its story like the writers couldn't think of anything to do with Dimitri here so had to write him off screen with such a baffling death.

Well it should especially considering that she causes Faerghus to be brought to shambles by Cornelia the person she has running it is not liked by the people at all yet on her own path she kills her despite that not being what her uncle wanted.

Agreed

Honestly disappointed when it comes to the stand out villains or rather antagonists Edelgard at the forefront with Black Eagles backed into cornered Rhea and then Death Knight who is certainly no Black Knight, but he's just okay are the ones in this game that were good. The ones who slither in the dark are poor sure they're not Fates level but still awful regardless so they may as well be in the same tier because both don't pass the standard of what makes for a good opposing force. I wish we could get another FE game with the same excellent amount of antagonists as Sacred Stones because I think we can all agree that had a excellent rogue gallery with characters such as Lyon at the forefront, Valter, Caellach, Selena and Orson so you have 5 well written antagonist characters where as for this game you really only have 2 because of how the paths turn out with Edelgard and Rhea switching. Path of Radiance had Black Knight, Ashnard and Petrine though for me the latter two could have had a bit more substance just in how Ashnard's spotlight really comes in end game and most of his interesting dialogue is locked behind battle conversations some of which can be missable like having Reyson fight him and there could have been more done with Petrine given her branded status but she does do her role well but she's certainly not at Valter's level when it comes to comparing the two. Shadows of Valentia really only had Berkut who was a well written antagonist for Alm but unlike how Lyon and the Black Knight have an impact on Ephraim and Ike respectively in breaking them like how Lyon plot twists the viewers and Ephraim in actually being Lyon declaring himself the Demon King when all this time we thought the Demon King had consumed Lyon especially since doing Eirika's path and obviously Ike's father being killed by no less his own student which Ike wants to get revenge. Berkut gets the Duma upgrade which for sure makes him menacing but remember despite getting that along with how he was before he never has a impactful moment of breaking Alm unless you really count his death scene with Alm not wanting him to die because he's the only family he has left in which I wouldn't because there he makes amends with Alm so no. Edelgard falls in line with Lyon and the Black Knight because her turning out to be the Flame Emperor breaks Dimitri with him having a maniacal laughter and what follows between the two of them throughout the Blue Lions path. Therefore if we're going by Fated Battle Voting Gauntlet which from according to Heroes: Marth vs Hardin Sigurd vs Arvis Ephraim vs Lyon Ike vs Zelgius and then insert what could and should be the Fated Battles 2 Voting Gauntlet: Alm vs Berkut Seliph vs Julius Roy vs Zephiel Dimitri vs Edelgard

Thank you, the descendants of the people of the past should take responsibility and submit while stripping away everything their history and culture is completely ludicrous.

So what you're saying is it's basically alright for her to take back what USED to be a part of the Empire from both the Kingdom and the Alliance all the while stepping on the very lives of the people inhabiting them to achieve that? Just because she has the right doesn't make it morally right, you cannot deny that. So it's perfectly fine for hypothetically if the Indians were a large collective enough group to start a war to reclaim their land that is now America despite the lives that are taken in the process it should be all will and good because it's an eye for eye right? No it's not. It's understandable, but not right and that is what Edelgard falls into she by all means has good in her, but the bad outweighs the good to obtain that ideal good world especially when the other endings achieve just that. It's the same case with Nohr needing resources from Hoshido, it's understandable and well in the king's duty to help his kingdom flourish because that's his obligation to the people he's sworn to protect and provide for but it's still a path of blood while stomping on the corpses to achieve those ends and this could have been avoided if there was some sort of peaceful negotiation. The problem here is that I cannot see Edelgard and Dimitri having a peaceful negotiation with him stepping down (especially when she's already killed a lot of people to reclaiming the land) and allowing Edelgard to take back the Kingdom to be reassimilated while she goes on to strip the Kingdom and the Alliance of their very history from the people's minds, which no that's what tyrants/dictators do. People like Edelgard need to accept all forms of history both the good and the bad, not just some of it and the latter is what she's doing to make sure no one has to view her as a questionable individual who wasn't such a squeaky clean good person and to be viewed as nothing but a heroic ruler. But I guess it should come as no surprise given how she has false information on Fodland's history to begin with so her view on history and what to do with it is messed up morally as well just like how she declares war with said misinformed history. It's just like Ashe said earlier in the discussion "What else is there for you to take?!" unfortunately the Kingdom's history too.

Excuse me while I go to weep... *cries*

@MrPerson0 @matchalatte Yeah Dimitri didn't approve of it. Dedue did it on his own because it was what he thought was their only way to achieve victory and when Dedue does the very same thing for himself in becoming a beast this is what Dimitri says in a sad tone when he dies.

@Zelda2120 Yeah I believe that's meant to be the case for those that didn't inherit crests as not being compatible with when using a relic. Probably something like the power that flows through when using a relic is what triggers it and if you don't have a crest your body can't handle the stress of the relic in like a wave length sorta way. Also I do happen to like the BL ending for Dimitri and Edelgard because it has multiple layers of depth to it as Dimitri reaches out his hand to a fallen state Edelgard as Byleth did for him when he was in a fallen state. However the tragedy in it is that in regards to the dagger when Edelgard remembers Dimitri's words to her as children about using this dagger to carve a future for herself no matter what and to not give in has double meaning as the dagger represents hope and resolve for Edelgard in continuing to live on no matter the struggles she endures but to not accept loss and waver from the future she's seeking out. Young Dimitri saved her, but he tragically also doomed her too with those very words and so when she doesn't accept Dimitri's offer of peace it's also because she desires suicide by cop as she's far too gone in blood in trying to realize her dream and to accept Dimitri's hand would be to spit on the graves she has piled up on her path for a better world. Just like how for example Malos from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 says words can be a curse. The conversation between Dimitri and Edelgard is way better than the one that Alm and Celica had in their differences. 18:07

Yeah same here, I like the path more so just because it's the 1st time we're playing as the Hardin, Arvis, Walhart that wins at the end of the day so it's a interesting new perspective. This conversation is especially really bad on the morality spectrum for Edelgard because here Dimitri is more sane than he was in BL until he gets his redemption scene (here he has his friends with him and didn't endure the loneliness that he did in his path) and she's basically trying to find fault with him DEFENDING HIS COUNTRY his moral obligation like what the heck Edelgard?

Yup Edelgard sure shows irony. Her strong attachment to Byleth began when they saved her at the beginning of the story from a bandit. A bandit whom, unbeknownst to them, was hired by Edelgard herself as part of her plan to assassinate both Dimitri and Claude. On the Golden Deer route, she declares that Claude has no right to change Fódlan due to having insufficient knowledge of Fódlan's history of suffering, yet she herself has a very ignorant and biased view of their history, which she obtained from knowledge passed down from emperor to emperor from her ancestor which conveniently left out how Nemesis was a bandit who committed genocide on the Children of the Goddess, consumed those they slaughtered for power, and pilfered the grave of the Goddess. In her own route, she bemoans how her enemies refuse to surrender, fight to the last, and then surrender regardless anyways, not understanding why they wouldn't go for the more peaceful option if the result of surrender was the same. In the other two routes, she dies after stubbornly refusing to surrender when the chance is offered to her.