Taka-kun

Well, rape and looting and child-killing is "horrors of war". Doing what they don't want to do but have to do anyway can be under "despicable acts" done by themselves. Did you have anything specific in mind?

I agree that traumatizing and scarring characters is way darker and that is not a territory I am going down. I don't know what you refer to but I think about rape and looting and killing children and the characters themselves doing despicable acts. Honestly, killing characters is easier since that would affect others, such as killing the retainers to affect the master, since it at least gives an incentive for revenge.

Flora I have also considered, as well as Crimson and Anna. But the problem is that Aqua is just so unsociable with everyone else that it's hard to fit her with anyone else. I am probably going to keep all the first gen as they are enough to work with. And character deaths are going to happen. It's a theme in the game, it will be a theme in my fic as well. And not all will be handled satisfactory, but at least I want to make them with an impact. Asama is the exception.

You are right in that regard. For me, adding children would just be a hassle as it adds more characters to write about. I do plan on other couples as well, but I want to see the supports first in order to find right fits. Kamui has higher priority because I am planning on him actually having influence in the war, so whether to just match with someone with personality that match or do a whole political marriage is still up in the air. About the whole cutting characters thing: Not all characters need to be three-dimensional, as long as they don't make an impact in the story, like, say Suzukaze. Heck, why not just kill them? Asama is going fast in book, writing his weird speech will be too much of a bother.

Then I would suggest this: The Nohrian invasion in Hoshido strips the resources in Nohr bare, leaving little for the people. What is taken in Hoshido is soon lost and little is sent back to compensate for the high taxes. So the people (with or without instigation) rises up in revolt. Basically, that's the event of the Peasants' Revolt in England 1381. Just replace Nohr with England and Hoshido with France. If Kamui is your central character, he/she can just be in the middle of Hoshidan territory and unable to do anything about thre revolution back home.

Not sure what you are going for here. You want a revolution in Nohr but why would you need villanous figure in Hoshido? The Nohrian throne as a whole is potrayed as asses, so Hoshido can just do their thing and the Nohrian rebels theirs. None of the parties need to be on amicable terms, the radical Hoshidans would still regard the Nohrians as enemies, no matter the intention. Takumi could be war hawk, if you want to choose one "villainous" figure.

The allegiance of the different autonomous duchies could add an interesting tale to the whole plot. It has been discussed before about Kamui gaining influence, in both Hoshido and Nohr, why not from this very duchies? And I don't mean via cheap means like "Oh, chosen by Yato, ohhh!". I want them to elaborate more, with something like divine right of kings adding legitimacy. The Ice Tribe clan is such a case, Kamui could use whatever leverage he has in court to protect them from Garon's wrath and in gratitude, they supply him with troops and whatnot (and Flora's hand in a political marriage, idk). I am too more in favor of realistic settings rather than going all mythological and I think the duchies would be good players in the political field, which both Conquest and Birthright touches upon. "Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens." Almost forgot, in terms of marriage: Who does people think Kamui could marry to most benefit the plot? I am fortunately not too swayed by this waifu/husbando thing yet so I am a little bit unbiased about this whole debacle. Like, shouldn't Aqua be the number one contender for M!Kamui's hand, since she is the deutargonist.

Double post, my bad.

This, this is what I was looking for, especially the bolded part. Like, actual sibling relationship versus their roles as prince and princesses.

One thing I see lacking in this thread is the whole theme of family. I have been beating on this dead horse for awhile (I count myself being one of the most dissapointed fans here on this site regarding that topic) but it bears repeating. I hate to forcefully introduce it but it should be considered anyway. Like, people take for granted that Marx, Camilla and Leon could just up and betray Garon, their father, their blood and flesh. There is a limit how much you can take, yes, but most family members tends to stick together, no matter what. That's why we have a problem with families giving false testimonies to the police to shield another family member, or sheltering and hiding them, despite the criminal acts they have done. Though I haven't read the supports myself, the three had good terms with their father and they had genuine love between each other. Just those small acts of love, of comfort during the early years can impact heavily when you get older. Garon could have been like Marx when he was younger and Marx inherited that sense of duty towards country. The only thing that separates them are years of pain and suffering and ageing. Kamui had none of that. Garon never loved him/her and he/she only did their best to be acknowledged as a prince of Nohr, to stand beside their royal siblings, which is why rebellion comes easier for them. Imagine a wham line in Conquest like this: Leon: "It's not that easy, Kamui, to turn your back against your flesh and blood." Kamui: "But I can, is that what you are saying?" Leon: "N-no, I meant..." Kamui: "We already have proof of that after all."

I agree about Hinoka, she is a very fairly interesting character so she shouldn't really put on the bench. If I would like to go further with the idea, I would probably have Hinoka learn how to use subterfuge and assassins, instead of the usual straighforward way she usually does. While the "defend country" main plot is generally good, Kamui's own willingness could play a large role here. Like, is he really okay with fighting against the family he has been fostered with to fight for strangers, some which might hate him (hell, I wouldn't risk my life for people that hate me)? Add in that his original goal was to actually make Nohr a better living place. Then there is the revelation that Kamui is NOT a Hoshidan, and an identity crisis can occur. Basically, there is no reason for Kamui to fight for Hoshido other than a fragile sense of "justice".

Another idea in Birthright could be about Kamui's altruism vs Hoshidan nationalism (again, taking cues from Japan) and I don't mean to just emphasize the racist behaviour and more of preserving cultural heritage and the spirit of the people. Like Nohr could have conquered Hoshido and actually treat the people well, but not being ruled by a member of the Hoshidan royal family is unacceptable for them and rebellious spirits would rise up. This could also serve as a good theme dealing with Kamui's false heritage, whether he identifies himself as a Hoshidan or a Nohrian.

This thread is really churning out good ideas for a potential rebuild of the Fates story. I might steal some ideas myself. Currently I would do something with Kamui assisting in Nohrian conquest of Hoshido and then Ryouma (very very sorry, Yari, but it has to happen) and Takumi are executed. Hinoka would be placed as a puppet queen, to appease the population and easier to control, by holding Sakura hostage in Nohr. Rebellious factions would appear in Hoshido but Nohr's hold of Sakura prevents Hinoka from doing anything outright drastic against it. Kamui would become more disillusioned as time flies by (I am planning on stretching out the story for years) and could potentially spark an event called Kamui's Rebellion. And then he gets killed. I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but there is a difference between doing it and doing it well and that is the largest obstacle I am tackling with. That aside, anyone have good ideas for a Birthright story? It's not as broken as Conquest but I still feel that it should be reworked from the ground up, with shades of the original story.

Thank you for the translation, Kirokan. You are not the only one. The whole story felt like a major asspull, to justify the three's existence in Fates. Even the "hidden" stuffs about Hydra made no damn sense at all.

No, his most "trusted" men are Ganz and Iago, with the former just doing it because he likes some slaughter and the latter being part of the conspiracy. Marx is technically the Nohrian army's leader but he goes "because father commands so" without the slightest effort of thinking himself.

I am just post here and say that you got my support. My college classes are starting soon as well but I believe I have time enough to maintain a lookout on this, especially since I have contributed a few things. :) You should post your new topic in the Written Works thread, since now you have moved beyond the stages of beta and moved into a full-fledged fic. Best of luck to you.

I would even argue that the choices at the end of the DLC chapters in Awakening amplified the development of Robin, as you could make him/her into a blood knight and/or a dishonorable individual and/or merciless and/or the same tactician as in FE7. It didn't affect anything gameplay-wise, but it added an interesting viewpoint with the conversation after the choice. Kamui in Fates is entirely beyond our control, aside from go with Nohr or go with Hoshido, which hardly affect them as a person.

That's basically it. "Garon" wants to destroy both Nohr and Hoshido because they forgot him (even though they still worship him, so yeah).

The game even goes out of the way of portraying Xander as loyal and Kamui as not, yet never touches upon it besides "that's how it is". It would have made a great theme if they had something along the line that, no matter what Garon, does he is still Xander's father and flesh and blood and play with that Kamui did betray THEIR flesh and blood (at least in the Nohr route).

It's not that Kamui isn't doing something drastic, it's that they do NOTHING at all. IS did market it, ever since the second trailer, that Nohr would be about reforming the militaristic nation from within, whether via working with the system or starting a rebellion. Instead they go like, "yeah, there is that throne in Hoshido". What would be the plan then if Kamui didn't know that "Garon" is not Garon and actually just a corrupt guy in the system. "Meh, should just let him sit on the throne, maybe it will fix him up".

I am pulling this entirely out of my memory here, and it's from unconfirmed resources as well, so know that the credibility is low. Still, from what I recall: - The story, especially Conquest, left many holes and unanswered questions. - The handling of the siblings on opposite sides is bland, aside from Takumi. - The role of Hydra was an asspull (what I thought the poster meant here was he showed out of the blue). - The atmosphere of chapter 6, which was believed to be retained for the rest of the game, wasn't. I think Kamui's character was mentioned as well but I think it's mixed with my own negative bias towards him/her. But basically, he/she is bland with no noteworthy characteristics (nothing about being worshipped).

I think scattered in some topics here and there in SE, some has claimed that, at least according to 2chan, the Japanese thought it was scheisse as well. I would really like to see anyone defending the story, like what is good about it in its current form.

IS will probably not release it. The draft is their property now, as Kibayashi turned it to them and I would hazard a guess that IS probably knows about the fan reaction. So releasing the original draft will only fan the flames. If anything, they might be able to recycle the ideas to the next FE.

My thoughts exactly, as many others I suspect. The premise was genuinely good, like really good. Yet this is how it ended up.

Did anybody really expect that Fates would have a full narrative? AFAIK, none of the FE games have had that and instead relies on the supports on the side, as a way of rewarding the player for actually using the character. Sure, both Marx and Ryouma should have gotten more spotlight, considering their role in the story, but apparently, people still like them based on their supports. Considering how the game is mostly from Kamui's viewpoint, not everything is revealed in the story proper. I think the story is shit too and could have been spiced way more, but there are still some redeeming qualities.