Jump to content

Azure Sen

Member
  • Posts

    1,245
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Azure Sen

  1. Also, what determines your MyCastle resources? I really wish I could have Peaches and Pearls!

    I'm fairly sure it's randomized when you start a new game (this includes starting at Branch of Fates).You could, in theory, keep resetting until you started with those, but you're probably better off just visiting a bunch of Hoshido/Valla castles.

    EDIT: I have a question of my own. Do Charlotte's My Castle lines change if you're playing as F!Corrin?

  2. I suspected from the beginning that there would be a third route, simply from pattern recognition; in any game with multiple routes and endings, there is generally a "Best" route/ending pair, and at the time Birthright and Conquest didn't seem to fit the bill. I did expect it to be a little more Shin Megami Tensei Neutral-esque, and involve a lot of dead royals on both sides.

  3. Takumi, definitely. Everything pre-release seemed to indicate that I would hate his guts, but his supports and usefulness won me over.

    Scarlet. She was less "hate" and more "completely neutral on," but her supports with Corrin and brief interactions with Ryouma also won me over.

    Hayato. Another one I was expecting to hate, given how meh I was on Ricken and how he seemed to be Ricken but more obnoxious, but the first support chain I finished for him was his with Sakura, which was adorable, and all of his other support chains have been surprisingly sweet.

  4. ONE act of stupidity?

    you mean the act of stupidity which threw the entire game's plot into motion?

    i'm sorry but i think this is kinda a big deal and a prime example of Fates's story being well, bad, the catalyst event for why everything happen was "samurai dad took child to a "peace treaty for no earthly reason"

    unless i'm wrong, please tell me that samurai dad had a good reason for bringing a baby into what might've been an obvious trap.

    note bringing a child with you to anything that could put it in danger was a bad idea in FE4 and Elthin was called out for it by Quan, but even he had a lapse in judgement and allowed her to come anyways.

    Because Ethlyn brought her child with her to a battlefield, not to what was presumed to be peace negotiations? Because Sumeragi had no reason in-story, as far as we are told, to doubt Garon's intentions? Because according to Kaze, Sumeragi did bring an escort and thought they could handle it, and didn't expect to be isolated from them and slaughtered by Garon?

    Oh man, I have no idea how to do proper quotes from multiple sources on this forum, it keeps screwing up my browser. Sorry.

    I usually stay with the page so I can quote a particular post multiple times, and then address points brought up in other posts in a different post/on the next page OR, if the notification comes about new posts, just expand those so I can keep up. (I have to admit, it's a little draining.

    Oh, I don't think Corrin has that much loyalty to Garon, specifically, although it's pretty clear at the start of the game she wants to impress him. She really wants things to work out with him (wouldn't you?), but yeah it's stupid, wishful thinking. Hell, she does the same thing with Mikoto whom she has even less of a relationship with (though obviously Mikoto is a better human); I'd say she craves a parental figure rather badly! However, I think ultimately the real reason that she doesn't rebel has a lot more to do with her siblings, especially Xander. Corrin knows exactly how Xander would respond to betrayal of Garon (and in fact, how he does respond, in both routes! Only a threat in Conquest, of course, but...) and Corrin can't deal with that, so she tries to please her dad as best she can and minimize harm until she can reveal him as a slime monster. She sacrifices innocent Hoshidans so that she can maintain a happy relationship with her family. I write this fully realising that a number of people will read this saying "and that's why Corrin sucks", but for me that's what makes her interesting.

    I mean, I guess the problem here is that for me, being an interesting character alone doesn't make them likable. Especially if these interesting traits come at the cost of stripping the character of all of their agency, or making them act in a way that makes no sense for their previously established character. This is probably the reason why I struggled through Conquest; sure the idea of a protagonist who has doubts and does unscrupulous things for personal, even selfish, reasons can be interesting (and a lot of my favorite characters are this sort of anti-hero), but the way they executed it with Corrin is so unsympathetic and unlikable I really didn't care about her struggles, especially when The Monumentally Dumb Plan was set in motion. It's also why I will always prefer Hoshido Corrin over Nohrrin; yeah, there's nothing particularly groundbreaking about her, but she has a clear goal, knows how she wants to achieve it, and has agency within the narrative.

    (And, honestly, you've made Conquest's plot sound far more interesting in a few posts than Conquest did in its entire length, but then again you put more thought into it than it feels like the writers did.)

    That's fair. Personally, I'd rather have an non-proactive one than a perfect one (if that's the choice), because the former is more unusual and, IMO, more interesting. If Corrin is "good" (certainly she has a bunch of traits we'd associate with good people) but doing bad things, it's interesting to ask why. I found nothing interesting about how most previous FE mains behaved, with only a few exceptions. You're free to disagree.

    I will politely disagree, then. I don't really care if a character is particularly interesting (and I feel that I probably have a much more lenient definition of interesting) as long as they have some likable traits. Personally It's hard for me to hate characters unless they do something despicable within the context of the narrative, are excused for their actions by the narrative/other characters when they clearly shouldn't be, or generally don't have any redeeming traits. Unfortunately, Nohrrin for me fits into the first two criteria.

    I'm obviously fine with having an interesting, flawed, but more proactive main character, too! However, some flaws (or other character traits) require a character be less proactive. I can think of excellent characters (from things much better-written than FE) who aren't very proactive at all, for instance either because they are overly loyal, or they are abuse victims, for instance.

    I'm interested in hearing your response to this too. It's always good to get perspective on what other people consider likable or unlikable about a character, even if you don't necessarily agree with their assessment.

    In reference to the first paragraph, Corrin is just going through character development when he realizes Garon's ways are not right and they just keep dooming Nohr's reputation as a kingdom, which is why he refuses to follow Garon's orders strictly. But the basis is the basis, he needed approval and wanted to show Muk (Garon) and his siblings that he is a worthy Nohr Prince. Another individual would've done research about the conflict between the kingdoms and look for an alternate way to bring peace, like making a Liberation Army with the Ice Tribe, Cheve and the Theatre city. But due to such events, he did what he did and the avalanche of events and dumps happened.

    I disagree. Corrin already realized that Garon's ways were brutal and wrong in Chapter 2, and being a worthy Nohr Prince isn't one of his motivations. He needed Garon's approval to continue acting against him, but didn't really seem to desire it at all otherwise.

    In reference to Garon sparing Corrin, I'm not bringing up a defense for him but rather showing why he let him be a Nohrian Prince. Another ruler would've killed baby Corrin without a second thought. I don't know with certainty if Garon trully wanted to make Corrin suffer, he indeed said that he would never do any harm to his children, but being possessed just leave people to keep wondering and doubting about true Garon. In the end, the Nohrian siblings state that Garon in the past wasn't as he is in the story and they wanted, or at least, Xander, wanted him to be as he was.

    I doubt it. Corrin is a valuable asset as a political hostage, and any other ruler (including maybe even the real Garon) would have used that as leverage in negotiations with Hoshido to get access to Hoshido's food/get Azura back. The real Garon is dead at the time of Corrin's abduction, and replaced with the slime monster; the monster possessed his soulless corpse. He also repeatedly says in cutscenes that he wants Corrin to suffer as much as possible, which even Iago, the game's resident puppy punter, is shocked by.

  5. First of all, one can't expect Corrin to be a strong-willed character given his psychological weakness. He was imprisoned in a Fortress in solitude for, what, a decade and half? Being in solitude for an individual for so much time and seeing the Nohr nobles take care of you and share their affections with you is what makes him care for getting Garon's and his siblings' approval. Everything that Corrin does is satisfy Garon because he, intrinsically, needs a paternal figure with all the emotions related to it. How will you defy someone you want approval of? We cannot expect a heroic character with iron will, determination, etc., because of all the psychological impact he has been submitted to. Knowing from one point to another that your family is not your true family and some individuals claim they are your true family leaves a huge effect on the character. I'm not excusing Corrin about his dumps but it is understandable under his circumstances.

    2. How the heck is Sumeragi going with baby Corrin to Cheve to go to a "peace treaty"? Who in the effing world of war will go to "enemy territory" with an effing baby? That's nonsense. Sorry for bursting here but the sole idea has no head nor foot. If anything I would fault Mikoto and Sumeragi for such an irresponsible action. One can say that Garon was human enough to spare Corrin's life and letting him leave in Nohr. Garon is a hero, Mikoto and Sumeragi suck.

    If Corrin in the game actually showed any desire for his siblings' or Garon's approval, I would agree. But Corrin tries to subvert Garon's orders when he disagrees with them, gets increasingly despondent with his inability to prevent the horrible actions his father sanctions, and ultimately hatches a plan to kill Garon because of how much he disagrees with Garon (and also because Garon is a slime monster). Corrin only starts pretending to act the way his father expects him to when he's luring Garon into a trap. Also Corrin wasn't in complete solitude, he was surrounded by three retainers who cared for him deeply, he admits that Gunter was more of a father figure to him that his supposed actual father, and his siblings are noted to have visited him as frequently as they could.

    (Sometimes it feels like I've missed some major scene explaining that Corrin is obsessed with the approval of Garon and the Nohr sibs, given how frequently it gets brought up as one of their motivations.)

    Bolded: ...I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not. He only spared Corrin so he could use them as an assassination tool, wanted Gunter to whip/starve them based on their gender, and in general only cares about making Corrin suffer. Compared to that, one act of stupidity is pretty forgivable.

  6. Corrin is paralysed with fear/indecision when it comes to betraying her dad. Wouldn't you be? You can attack Hans, yeah. And then assuming Hans doesn't just kill you, you would go home to be executed by your dad, a disappointment in the eyes of the elder brother you look up to. Cowardly? If you want to call it that, go ahead. But very real, and interesting to watch.

    I prefer interesting situations to big heroes who always do the right thing and always have it work out because they're just that heroic.

    If Corrin and Garon actually had a relationship beyond "hey I killed your dad and kidnapped you, stuck you in a fortress to live in mostly isolation and never interacted with you, only brought you out because I needed a trojan horse to enter Hoshido and kill their queen, and have tried to kill you no less than three times," I would agree with you. But given that they have no actual relationship, Garon being his father is never portrayed as the reason he doesn't rebel, and Hoshido Corrin has no problem betraying him without a second thought, I have to disagree. And if Corrin came up with a half-decent lie for killing Hans, Garon wouldn't have cared, given how little he cares about anyone. Heck, he probably would have been proud of Corrin for showing the kind of ruthlessness Garon expects.

    Bold: These two things are not mutually exclusive.

    Some people absolutely do. Such as anyone who wants him to be more like Ike or Roy or Robin, who are basically that.

    Except the only way that people have been comparing those three to Corrin is in terms of their agency and willingness to take action within the narrative, as a way to show how Nohrrin is wanting in the backbone department. Wanting your protagonist to be proactive =/= wanting them to be perfect.

    I was responding to arguments that Corrin needs to be more like those heroic FE mains with my opinion that I am happier that she isn't.

    Aside from their unwillingness to make a move against Garon and being part of the "evil" kingdom, Corrin is basically a heroic FE main even in Conquest. Same general morality, same devotion to their allies, same super-special trait about them (in Corrin's case, there a multiple), same otherworldly charisma that inspires devotion in others, same (default) unique or semi-unique hair color, same super-special ultimate weapon, same moments of self-doubt (although Corrin's are cranked way up in Conquest), etc..

  7. Laslow is Ylissian royalty

    I share this headcanon. It's why Laslow got the Hero's Brand in my Conquest run.

    Aside from that one run where I'm going to do F!Corrin/Takumi and that other one where Corrin!Caeldori and Kiragi are together, Takumi and Sakura are Corrin's half-siblings.

    Much like "Corrin" is the name given to Kamui in Nohr, "Azura" is the name Aqua chose for herself after being accepted into the Hoshido royal family.

    Corrin's perpetual lack of footwear and (at least in my games) enjoyment of putting silly accessories on everyone in the army including themselves stems from the fact that their wardrobe was one of the few things Corrin had some control over while in isolation. The older brothers (and Azura in Revelation) figure this out and ask/threaten/bribe the army to accommodate them. (Azura doesn't wear shoes because she kept ruining them by running into water with them on. After the fifth pair, Mikoto tells her to go barefoot instead.)

    Forrest and Oboro, in Revelation, bond over their mutual love of fashion. They swear they will help Corrin become fashionable once the war ends.

    Real Garon and Sumeragi were friends at some point before Real Garon was killed and replaced. That's why Sumeragi walked into the obvious trap that was Cheve, with his young son/daughter in tow; he honestly thought he and his old friend were going to come together and finally find a solution to the tension between their two nations.

    The barrier around Hoshido is actually a form of Valla magic taught to Mikoto by Arete. It only works because Mikoto is a Vallan, and thus is almost impossible to recreate.

  8. Dragon Fang and Luna are more reliable, in my opinion, since they'll always get damage bonuses while it's entirely possible that Rend Heaven can be rendered completely useless (see also: when fighting Sorcerers with any physical unit or any of the physical units that have 0 Base Magic/Growth with magical units).

  9. That's because it IS ridiculous. The story in a game is the second least important part of the package in a game, Fates gameplay alone warrants it an 8/10 imo, and the presentation brings it up to a 9/10. These people are just overly salty for no real reason.

    The only reason the story's receiving so much attention is because IntSys made it the front and center of their marketing campaign, and ended up promising things that they didn't deliver on. They kind of shot themselves in the foot on this one.

  10. Xander was literally beating Corrin fairly in the cutscene sequence (although one could say that Corrin wasn't even defending themselves), the actual battle somewhat proves that Xander is basically shattered emotionally and his own beliefs are pretty much destroyed and he lost his will to fight so by that point he is weaker than he should be (but this point is off-topic).

    I didn't necessarily mean weak physically. Xander is arguably stronger physically (until we bring gameplay and story segregation into it; on average Corrin is probably stronger by the time you reach Chapter 26), but Corrin is definitely stronger mentally and emotionally even before

    Elise gets killed.

    Corrin's more confident, more courageous, has the stronger moral center, and has more agency because he's proactive. Corrin and Xander definitely make interesting foils to each other on Birthright, but that's another discussion for another time.

  11. There's several things I don't know about Azura (and probably won't until I finish Revelations), so I can't really say how feasible it would be to get everyone over there (or if they'd even agree to it).

    While pinning Mikoto's death on Garon would be easy enough, it would implicate Corrin by association, as it was his sword that went boom. The populace remembers that event like how my grandparents remember the events at Pearl Harbor, so putting blame on the guy that's supposed to be unifying the countries probably won't end very well. Plus, the populace would see that their nobles are aligning with Nohr, and that would most likely cause a riot/loss of faith in the government. Not really the noble's fault, more like the culture's fault for harboring so much hatred.

    Yeah, let's drop this line of discussion before we head into Revelations spoiler territory and resume once everyone's had a chance to play it. I've already accidentally spoiled myself and don't want to do that to anyone else.

    Things like this are what makes working within the bounds of canon to revise a story difficult. Though I'd disagree that it would lead to rioting, there would probably be some major discontent. (Although didn't the explosion kill most everyone who was there anyway?)

    That's quite a lot coming from someone who I could start to think that has an opinion of 'Might makes right'. Corrin never does stupid things all the time, of course they would make mistakes, just about every FE Lord has made mistakes that other army members and players think need to be avoided.

    I never said 'Corrin' in that line, I said that it's not a bad thing for characters to have some flaws if they sooner or later remove them over the course of the game. If by your implication is dictating what I said to Corrin and Corrin alone, then I'm wondering where you saw that.

    That was the reason why Xander said that to Corrin in Birthright during his final boss fight. Hans also said that to Corrin and the Nohr Royal Family when he said that the five of them were 'weak'. And no, Conquest Corrin wouldn't be that much of a stupidhead if he was just morally correct. You can't properly lead a kingdom through brute strength without considering the need of your people as your people (if they are supporting you) will continue to side with you and fight for you. Conquest Corrin actually knows a bit more regarding Garon's intentions since he actually returns to Nohr and is able to 'translate' what the false Garon is trying to get him to do. You need the strength to back up your words as a leader, Corrin has the moral options that gives them leadership qualities but they (obviously) lack the actual might to support their views. Also, even Corrin screwed up there, I think both Xander and Leo wouldn't let Corrin's useless ideals last too long as it would send all five of them into deeper trouble than they need to be in.

    Where in BruceLee's post did he indicate that he thought that "might makes right?" (And given that war kind of solves the major problem of Conquest, he's not far off.) And while you could argue that Corrin doesn't do stupid things all the time in Conquest, the stupid things he does are so monumentally dumb that it kind of taints the rest of his character.

    The problem with bringing up those two instances are that the two characters are supposed to be wrong within the narrative. Hans is...well, Hans, and Xander throughout the course of Birthright has proven himself to be much weaker than Corrin. And Garon's intentions are to make Corrin suffer, something that Corrin never figures out, and to destroy Hoshido, which Corrin opposes (but then doesn't because plot). It doesn't take being in Nohr to figure out the latter, really.

  12. Good to know. I was going to be swapping statues in and out so it's good that my "progress" won't be reset every time I demolish some statues to build new ones.

    Though I'm always going to have one less Magic than I could have thanks to not having Rhajat on this file. I don't suppose a logbook-recruited can earn a statue, yeah?

    Theoretically you could remove everything but the essentials (armories, resources, etc.) and have enough room to put down everyone's statues in Birthright. And no, logbook units don't get any statues.

  13. Two questions regarding construction in My Castle.

    1) If I build something, upgrade it to level 3, but then demolish it, does it keep the upgrades should I decide to rebuild it? I assume so, but I want to be sure.

    2) Let's say I've capped my Luck stat at (Just throwing a random number out here) 20, then build a statue that increases the Luck cap by 1. I increase my Luck to 21, but then I demolish the statue. I assume my Luck drops down to 20, but if I rebuild that statue (Or build a different statue that also increases Luck), do I get that point back and immediately go to 21, or do I have to earn it back?

    In Awakening, unequipping Limit Breaker still remembered your LB stats and brought them back up when you reequipped it, but I don't know if Statues follow the same rules.

    1) Yes, they will retain the upgrades if you choose to demolish and rebuild them them.

    2) Yes, basically. The skill will increase to meet the cap if you've already capped it and remove/rebuild a statue. The cap increases also stack, though I haven't been able to check yet if the capped stat also increases to match the new cap.

  14. Two. There's a major sticking point, and that's the trust between the nations. Azura originally came from Hoshido, so if she suddenly got a crystal that showed Garon's true nature, there's no guarantee that the other four siblings would've gone "okay you're right". . .especially Xander, who might bring up the fact that she might be a Hoshido agent working to undermine Nohr's politics. If Azura's plan works, the next hurdle would be to convince the Hoshido siblings that Nohr really is trying to change. And even if THAT happens. . .

    there's that curse Iago placed on Takumi, which would immediately have the Nohr siblings branded as traitors. Unless that plot device never happens.

    Next, the rest of the Hoshido populace would have to be convinced that this is for the best. Though Scarlet wasn't affiliated with any of the Nohr royalty, she mounted a rebellion in Cheve, so I don't see why some daredevil in Hoshido couldn't do the same.

    Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I think perhaps the best solution to that would be for all of the siblings to make the trip to Valla somehow, instead of just Corrin and Azura going, since Azura seemed to pick right after they returned specifically because Corrin would be more receptive to the idea. It would certainly make Chapter 15 less annoying to play through. The Hoshido siblings minus Takumi I feel wouldn't be too hard to convince, given their faith in Corrin in Conquest as is.

    I'm a little confused. Are you talking about Takumi's curse in Birthright, or his condition in Conquest? Because the latter is quite different, for extra spoiler-y reasons I won't go into now.

    Scarlet's rebellion in Cheve was in response to Garon's cruelty, according to her Support in Birthright. In fact, given how widely known his actions are, Garon is a pretty convincing scapegoat, more or less. Add on that they could easily pin Mikoto's death on him, and it seems like Xander and co. have at least some footing to begin building goodwill between the two nations. (And any sort of post-war politics wouldn't be shown in-game anyway, since the game would still end after defeating Garon and the whole point of the Hoshido sibs' support of the Nohr sibs' plans is that no one outside the ten of them knows about it.)

  15. What would happen, then? Would Corrin just get Outlaw like Charlotte would? Even if it doesn't work out for villager I would still like to know what would happen.

    Each unit gives a specific promotion line for Partner/Friendship Seals. Inherited classes cannot be accessed via Partner or Friendship Seal. So for example, Corrin would get Axe Fighter from Velouria no matter who her mother was.

  16. So in the meantime, everyone who isn't fond of Corrin, just how was the story of Nohr supposed to play out, plot and character-wise? Besides the "don't kill anyone" thing. . .I think it's stupid and unrealistic, but I suspect there's more to it than that.

    Here's a rough outline of how I would have liked it to gone:

    • While the Cheve resistance is badly damaged in the aftermath of Chapter 13, Scarlet and some of its members survive.
    • In the aftermath of Chapter 13, Corrin, frustrated with his inability to change anything and horrified by his father's brutality, realizes that allowing Garon to remain on the throne would be a mistake and begins plotting against Garon.
    • As luck would have it, the trip to the IK and Azura's revelation (which would preferably happen with the other Nohr sibs around in this version) gives him all the help he needs to get it done, in the form of Azura and the other siblings.
    • The story would then shift to the siblings' efforts to weaken Garon and Iago's influence in the Nohr government; assassinating officials loyal to Garon or Iago and replacing them with pro-Xander individuals, gathering allies in the form of the Ice Tribe and the Cheve resistance, quietly sabotaging all attempts to invade Hoshido, among other actions. Power plays like this please Garon despite Iago's attempts to block the siblings' efforts.
    • Hans is the first of the cronies to die, because he overstayed his welcome in canon and I'm spiteful like that.
    • If Chapter 18 still happens, the Corrin and the Nohr siblings convince the Hoshido siblings of their plan. They join together to take down Zola, one of Iago's cronies, and the Hoshido siblings discreetly aid the Nohr siblings in any way they can.
    • Finally, once all of the pieces are in place, the siblings arrange for Azura to dance for Garon, with the intent of forcing him to reveal his true form, which they fight and defeat.
    • There are still hints that a bigger force is in play.
    • Corrin actually changes; instead of the naive and ineffectual character he remains in canon, he becomes more willing to get his hands dirty and commit less than moral actions in order to change Nohr for the better.
    • While hesitant at first, Xander is eventually forced to admit that his father has changed from the man who he remembers and swears his blade to Corrin's cause.
    • Camilla and Leo don't really undergo any major changes in my version, beyond being more willing to stand up to Garon because they lack the good memories of him that Xander has.
    • Elise is actually relevant in the story, acting as a sort of moral compass for the elder siblings, reminding them of why they're doing what they're doing and the Nohr they hope to create.

    But this is just a rough outline I wrote up in about 20 minutes, and I'm trying to sort of keep things in line with Conquest.

  17. The Good:

    • The characters. Aside from a few notable exceptions, I ended up liking most of the characters once I read their supports, even ones like Takumi and Charlotte who I didn't expect to like.
    • Dragon's Vein. In general the idea of being able to manipulate terrain for a tactical advantage is a cool idea, and other than a few missteps in certain stages I think it really works well.
    • The level design for Conquest. Again, except for a few exceptions, very well thought out and enjoyable to play.
    • The new throwing weapons, and the concept of having different factions use different versions of the same weapons. I hope the latter comes back, even if it's just for flavor in the next FE.

    The Bad

    • Conquest's story. This one I've discussed at length, so I that's all I will say about it in this thread.
    • Peri. She gets her own entry simply because who thought it was a good idea to have an anime "psycho girl" character in the game.
    • The justifications for the pseudo-incest on both routes. Just...why? Was it really so important that Corrin be able to marry everyone?
    • Speaking of, the actual incest that happens on both routes. Not even the spoilery stuff, just that the first cousin kids can still marry each other even if their parents are blood siblings.

    The Meh

    • The implementation of the children mechanic. Most of the children by themselves are fine as characters, it's just that IS's attempt to shoehorn them in where they didn't belong really did no one any good.
    • My Castle. I don't love it, but I don't hate it, and if it was gone in the next FE game.
    • Pair Up. While I feel Fates did it better, I'd still like to see it gone, but it's not a dealbreaker if it stays in.
×
×
  • Create New...