Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
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Posts posted by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
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11 hours ago, Jotari said:
Desert maps, good!
Fog of War maps, good!
Desert+Fog of War+Enemy Fliers+A Turn Limit+Forced Deploy Worst Unit in the Game= Bad >.> You know who I'm looking at.
Ironically, it was replaying the Nabata map (on Normal Mode) that made me think of this take. FE6 is very generous with the Fog of War, giving your units actually decent vision ranges - somehow, every iteration since has dropped the ball, IMO. While the map does start with Wyverns, there are no Wyvern reinforcements. The only reinforcements are Axe Infantry, who start near the edge of the map, so you should have no problem outrunning them.
Sophia is... bad, of course... but the map is actually relatively friendly to her, since her mobility means she's only really in danger from enemy fliers. She can also take one Silence cast for the team, potentially sparing one of your better magical units. My bigger issue, actually, is with Cecilia. She has 2 effective movement, meaning she'll almost never see combat. But at least she can support allies with Physic, right? Nope, because she only has C Staves at base! She leaves a terrible first impression, which is a shame, as her performance for the next few chapters is solid.
Now, maybe when I replay this chapter on Hard Mode, I'll experience the suffering everyone speaks of. But as it stands, I honestly don't think it's that bad. Certainly not as troublesome as Chapter 7, "Wyvern Hell", or the Mulagir map.
34 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:Basically agree with all this. Deserts are neat in moderation.
Yeah, I was basically thinking that I actually tend to look forward to the desert map in any given game. Like, RD's IV-3 is probably my favorite Part IV pre-Tower map (although that's not saying much, haha). Maybe it's as simple as a "lizard brain activated when free item" reaction? Who knows!
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On 11/7/2023 at 2:33 AM, Noctis51 said:
That makes me wonder about Fates (Birthright and Conquest) and Awakening, I paid close attention to everything like in every FE I play but I don't feel like in terms of difficulty they were harder than Path of Radiance or Sacred Stones. There was more planning and more energy put into it, because of relationship pairing and the children mechanics and skills and all that, but I didn't necessarily feel the need to pull off complex strategies or things like that to win in general.
Which difficulty were you playing on? Because Lunatic on the 3DS games can get pretty punishing. Way beyond the Hard modes of Path of Radiance and Sacred Stones.
Anyway, new unpopular opinion: Desert Maps. I like 'em. It's a refreshing change of pace, especially in the games that otherwise go "deploy your Cavs, and you win". Giving your Mages a big boost to relative mobility is very welcome, while the hidden treasures give your Thief something to do (while also beefing up your Convoy with added tools). And sure, they make fliers better - but in my exlerience, moreso by how useful it is to Rescue-Drop their infantry allies around, than by flying out and just soloing the map with a Javelin.
Come to think of it, my least favorite desert maps have to be the Valentian ones. Because they don't have any of this "desert map weirdness", nor any Rescue-carry. They're just... a slog.
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Ah, the Mage and the Sage. Sure, I've got some Thyme to consider these two. I'd throw in some Parsley and Rosemary, too, but unfortunately they're out of Season. Regardless, they're staple classes at this point. So, which kind of flavor do they add to the game? Ranked from foulest to most flavorful:
Spoiler11. Radiant Dawn. Unsurprisingly, this is the nadir (or is it nardil?) of Mages for the series. Lower movement than physical infantry, check. Low-might tomes that are expensive to forge, check. Mediocre statlines and caps, check. No access to staves until the lategame, check. Weirdly high enemy RES, yes. Ilyana is an EXP Thief, Tormod forgets to level up before Part IV, Calill doesn't have enough time to grow, and Bastian shows up super late. Soren is the only usable one, but only because every member of the Greil Mercenaries is usable, as Part III gives them a long training arc. Effective damage against laguz would be nice... except that there are only 5 chapters where you fight Laguz, and just 2 of them in which you can take advantage of this weakness. Oh, and Tormod's Celerity can (and should) just be swapped around this time.
10. Path of Radiance. Most of the Tellius Mage issues, like weak tomes and lower movement, originated here. But there were further issues - Sages like Calill and Bastian got Knives (useless), rather than Staves (useful). The Mages you promote can gain either, and I'd like to meet the schmuck who gave their Soren a Stiletto rather than a Heal Staff. Still, their stats aren't so bad relative to the game itself, with decent numbers of slow, low-Res enemies whom you could actually damage. And Tormod's Celerity makes him a unique investment unit, in a game with no mounted Mages. Mages bad here, but they could've been worse.
9. Fates. Orochi is slow, and while her Capture skill has its uses, Birthright doesn't offer a ton of appealing enemy captives. Hayato joins kind of late, at least in BR - in Rev, he's actually pretty solid. Izana, if he counts, is a lategame filler with... a skill that weakens nearby allies? Lovely. The biggest problem with magic in Fates, though, is that it's totally disadvantaged against Shurikens (the best weapon type in the game). The one exception is Calamity Gale, which is great... but then you've got to watch out for Bow users. The Diviners and Onmyoji aren't totally useless, but they're definitely not premier among infantry magic users across the series.
8. Awakening. Miriel is pretty "not bad", and Ricken is... uh... certainly a unit. There are a lot of Tomes to pick from, but Mage and Sage aren't necessarily the best users of them. Dark Knight and Dark Flier are more mobile; Tactician gets Veteran; and, Dark Mage gets Nosferatu. Oh, I forgot about Laurent until just now - he's fine, but like his mom, is best reclassed to Dark Mage.
7. Genealogy. And the heroine Fjalar spake, "Woe to the player who assumes her Mage shall promote into Sage! For she shall know only weeping, gnashing of teeth, and no access to the Light tome." They're all over the map here - Azelle (and Arthur) start with terrible movement, but end in a great spot, by promoting to Mage Knight. Lewyn has great combat, then gets Staves upon promotion, but stays infantry forever. Tiltyu (and Tinne, or Linda) gain Staves and Swords (haha) upon promotion, plus Adept and a spot of move, while Amid only gets suffering in life. And Julia... she promotes to Sage, but starts in Shaman, so does she even count? How should I know? In any case, the real strong points here are "Forseti user", "B-rank Staffbots", "Horsey Mages", and "Ced slash Hawke my beloved". Anyway, they all broadly have good-to-great combat, but some limitations that make them challenging to use, even if they all play differently.
6. FE7. So, I used to think that Erk, Lucius, and Canas all had their own respective strengths and weaknesses. You can use any one or multiple of the three, and they'll get a similar job done. But honestly, I'm starting to view Erk as the "weakest link" of the bunch. He's not offering the power or speed of "Jesus H. Macy, he has 10 base Speed?!?" Lucius, nor does he bring the bulk of CANAS BOIS. He has WTA over Light magic, but enemy Monks are trash, so who even cares? And Nino is like Erk, but with a bit higher growths and coming two-thirds of a game later, so have fun! Pent is the one saving grace here - instant access to all Staves and (non-legendary) Anima, great bases, and an instant A-rank with his lovely wife, Louise. Being close to a perfect unit, he comes gracefully late, to avoid trivializing any more of the game than he needs to.
5. Sacred Stones. Lute feels like a perfection of what they were attempting with Erk - a (youthful, purple-haired) earlygame Mage with iffy bases, but great growths, for excellent long-term potential. She suffers WTD against Dark-using enemies (including Monsters), but this time, Sage gives her a one-up, with Light Magic access. Conversely, she can go Mage Knight, and while it only gives 1 extra point of movement, the boost to Con, plus the ability to Rescue-Carry, is pretty welcome. As for Saleh, he's a late-ish-joining Sage with solid bases, but not a ton of room to grow... essentially, a lesser Pent. But hey, an almost perfect unit is still... almost perfect! Ewan... does he even count? If you know what you're doing, you're giving him Dark magic. Anyway, he's bad, but probably more trainable than, say, Nino. Mages and Sages are "pretty good" this time around.
4. Echoes. So, who are the Mages of Echoes? You get Mae and Boey on Celica's route, and possibly Sonya and Nomah later on. Maybe Atlas, if you feel demented in a fun way. As for Alm's side, you don't get Luthier and Delthea until Act III, but any of the Villagers can use it, and it's honestly not terrible on any of them. Kliff is my personal favorite, but I hear Tobin is meta, and Mage Faye is fun
when I don't mind shooting myself in the foot by not having a second Cleric. Unfortunately, with no "middle tier", they take a long time to promote - female Mages especially. When they do, they don't gain any movement, but do get Recover - and for Priestesses, Swords. The biggest boon, though, may be the Mage Ring. Essentially a "Thyrsus before Thyrsus", it vastly expands the possible targets for your Mages, and the enemy usually can't counter-attack. I don't think Mages are as good as your Clerics and Saints, but they can still be very useful.3. Three Houses. Obviously, the class system here is dramatically different from any we've seen elsewhere in the series. "Mage" is pretty much the "default" Intermediate choice for any unit who's going to be doing magical damage. Fiendish Blow is highly desirable for the likes of Lysithea, Constance, and Marianne, turning high-damage spells and magical combat arts into one-shots. Oh, and unlike in most games, Mages can still use the Heal spell. Warlock remains at an unfortunate 4 move, but it has the perfect skill set for a Black (not Dark) Magic user, doubling the charges and giving them the highest-possible power. That's especially desirable for Thoron and siege spells, making this ideal for Dorothea and Hanneman, among others. As for Gremory, I'm counting it, because it feels like the closest thing to a "Sage" in Fodlan. This is usually the preferred endgame class for magical female units who don't really care about their mobility, and just want as many charges of key spells as possible. Oh yeah, and on an ending note - Thyrsus.
2. FE6. In their first post-Kaga game, you could really tell that IS were leaning back on some historical components of the series. Not only is the story a hybrid of FE4 and the Archanea games, but they also decided to take Asbel, put him in a banana costume, and call him "Lugh". He's a legitimately excellent unit, with high power, accuracy, and Speed. Low con? Who cares! They must've ripped some pages out, because Thunder tomes went from 6 Weight (in Erk's time) to 2 Weight. Lilina is a bit more of a nuke, unfortunately joining a bit later, where her frailty is more apparent, but can become something good. Hugh is a "you get what pay for" kind of unit, so if you want to use him, make sure to shell out. No default Sages here, but the Mages are all totally usable. I'd say what "elevates" them is the Aircalibur tome. A high-accuracy, lightweight, broadly buyable, anti-Flier tome in a game most known for its prodigious use of Wyverns. After Bow-users and Berserkers, Aircalibur Mages are your best answer to enemy fliers.
1. Shadow Dragon. I've doubted myself quite a bit on which game actually has "the best" Mages and Sages. If I were counting "Untitled Leif Game", then I'd put that in first (thanks, Asbel), but I salvaged my sanity by not finishing (and thereby, not counting) it. Anyway, the default Mages and Sages get really cool stuff to their credit. Merric gets instant Excalibur, while Wendell gets that... plus instant Mend... plus weirdly high Speed. Linde is a tactical Aura-nuke and serious investment unit, while Gotoh (wait, should I count him? I didn't count Athos, but Gotoh doesn't have a unique class, he just shares the Sage class) offers some neat support with Fortify and Swarm. Mages still have the usual flaws - physical frailty, low mobility - but when they're useful, they're really useful.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the classes! I don't have the strongest feelings on Mages and Sages, and I don't think there's a huge gap between their "worst" and "best" games. Let me know what you think!
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23 hours ago, MadBoar said:
Julia
Characters that are placed in the Julia archetype were created/engineered by the Gharnef to have un natural powers. Julia's are among the strongest, characters in fire emblem. They have white hair due to the side effects. Julia's include Idunn, Micaiah, Robin, Corrin, Edelgard, Lysithea, and Veyle. Sometimes, Julias can also be a Medeus.
I believe that this is only explicitly the case for
SpoilerEdelgard and Lysithea. Maybe Veyle IDK, I never finished Engage. In the case of Julia, it's explicitly unrelated. Her brother Julius is the one with major Loptyr blood, and he's a redhead. Julia has white hair because... her mom had white hair.
Anyway, I disagree with the framing of the post. We, the fan community, don't create archetypes, we observe them. We're not the ones creating red-and-green-haired Cavaliers, but we are the ones noticing "hey, isn't it weird that these trends tend to show up across games?"
23 hours ago, MadBoar said:Sonia's are female characters that use their feminine traits to manipulate powerful men. Some of the Sonias are Nuibaba, Aversa, Patricia/Cornelia , and Lyn (engage).
I don't recall Nuibaba actually using her "feminine wiles" to persuade... Berkut, I assume? She just offers him a powerful weapon of dark magic, to help him achieve his goals. Maybe she does so seductively, but it's not as though he'd turn down the same offer from a blue-skinned ugly old man.
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On 11/10/2023 at 7:55 PM, Jotari said:
Nevertheless, Safy, Linoan, Serra and Sleuf
On 11/9/2023 at 8:43 PM, samthedigital said:Anyway, Serra and Libra are the two main representations for this class
Jeez, the "frail Ostian Cleric" is really making her way in the world! Bringing her beloved music to Jugdral and Ylisse alike.
On 11/11/2023 at 11:03 AM, Jotari said:Yeah, very true. Whether you're warping or powering through with forged weapons and Hammerne, the staff bot is still the secret MVP.
I think Radiant Dawn's healing items might be a tad overhyped for this reason. Yes, 20HP times 8 is certainly better than 10HP times 3, but the weakness with Vulneraries was never actually in how much they heal. It's in that they consume a unit's action and inventory slot. The latter is mitigated by Radiant Dawn's high inventory slots, though you still might want to carry that many weapons if you want effective weaponry handy. The former however, is not. Healing Nolan with a vulnerary means Nolan isn't killing anything that turn, so having Luara (or Micaiah) heal him is giving you more action opportunities. Especially when you factor in how, by Part 3, unit competition is so bizarre that Laura is practically a forced deploy (having Micaiah heal with sacrifice and then Laura heal Micaiah instead of healing directly is also actually a great way to increase exp for both of them).
Oh, I agree that there's still value to healers. I agree with you and @lenticular about it. The "Sacrifice + Heal" combo is such a big "stonks" energy. I also would've accepted "Renewal on Micaiah, do she can Sacrifice luke 2 HP every turn".
However, let's compare Game A and Game B. In Game A, the Vulnerary restores 10 HP, while the Heal Staff restores 20 HP. In Game B, the Vulnerary restores 20 HP, while the Heal Staff restores 20 HP. I believe it would be fair to say that the Heal Staff is weaker, relatively speaking, in Game B, than it is in Game A. So, if you have a unit with exclusive Heal Staff access, then all else equal, they would be less valuable in Game B than in Game A.
Oh, and I didn't even get into RD's "staves are now equippable" system. Now, in theory, this helps pure healers, by letting them counter-attack and self-heal between turns. In practice, Laura generally isn't doing damage to, nor surviving combat with - well, anyone - so it's largely irrelevant. And for promoted healers, it's sometimes a bit of a negative. If I want Rhys to Mend an ally - but also to lure in an enemy Mage, and counter-attack with Ellight - then I need to do some tradestrats to make it happen. In any other game, Ellight would stay equipped, regardless of the staff he uses.
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I picked "Kirby" as an "Animated Movie". I, uh, don't even want to think about how "live-action Kirby" would look.
My rationale was simple - Kirby already had an adaptation. That is, the "Kirby: Right Back At Ya" cartoon series. They were willing to do it before, so why not again? Moreover, if they're sticking with Illumination for animated films, then Kurby is perhaps their most suitable property for such an adaptation.
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8 hours ago, Jotari said:
Hammerne is certainly nice in a game with very expensive forge, but you also get it really, really late. Ther is only five(ish) chapters left, and if you play Shadow Dragon like I do, that's when the game really starts to drag and you begin warp skipping chapters. Gharnef and Xemcel's chapters in particular just beg not to be played conventionally.
Certainly, it depends on how you play. I've gotten a lot of use out of Hammerne, but truth be told, I've never really played Shadow Dragon with a heavy warp-skip strategy. If you play the next six-to-eight maps (counting chapter 20) conventionally, then it will be very handy. Of course, the less useful Hammerne is to you, the more useful Warp, and vice versa. Lena stays winning.
8 hours ago, SnowFire said:For FE9, I do agree that for Rhys personally, him having a soft monopoly on early healing is nice, but I'm personally still not inclined to credit his class much for that. If some Kaizo ROMhack of FE9 made all the Paladins Bishops and made Rhys a Cavalier / Paladin, the value of poor Titania / Oscar would seriously be in the gutter and the game more difficult. (But an angels-dancing-on-a-pin issue, of course!)
Well, I think the presence of a class needs to be counted in how good a class is in a given game. If Natasha were a Troubadour, and L'Arachel a Cleric, then I would probably boost FE8's "Troubadour" ranking (since one exists at a reasonable time), and lower my "Infantry Healer" ranking (you only have one, until Cl'erachel or Artur promotion). How much value are members of this class giving me, on any given playthrough? That changes with how available the class is.
Of course, I considered PoR my "second-to-last-place" game for Healers, so there's not much room for him to drop. Even then, I could see a case for RD jumping it, purely because it's a harder game, thus making healers (arguably) more necessary.
8 hours ago, SnowFire said:Flip side, Onmyoji is probably the Fates equivalent of Sage and so Izana definitely counts over in the Mages & Sages topic. (Hence me running with Butler / Maid / Priestess / Great Master as the Fates entrants here.)
Izana joins with the Monk skills, because that's his canon "base class". That's why I counted him here. Of course, by a similar measure, Jacob and Felicia would be Troubadours... hm...
8 hours ago, SnowFire said:Well, this obviously isn't a scientific endeavor, but in favor of counting Maids / Butlers here, they're the sole class in Fates that gets S-Rank staves, while their max Dagger rank is notably beneath that of Master Ninjas and the like. Enemy Maids often tend to just carry a status staff or Physic and don't even bother with a Dagger. And they're from the Troubadour class set, which is a pure-healing class at base (even if the horsie got lost somewhere along the way). They do seem intended to be staff healer first, debuffs second.
Sigh, it's all very confused, isn't it? Before Awakening, every staves-only class promoted to a magic-using class. Then the War Clerics showed up, and I was prepared to accept them, since they promoted directly from Cleric. Sure, they also came from Troubadpur, but that was a weird artefact of the split promotions system.
Come Fates, and the obvious analogue is the Hoshidan Priestess, now using Bows (or Great Master, with Lances). But on the Nohrian side, we have... the Maids (and Butlers). Infantry healers with weapon access. They promote only from Troubadour, which is the last game's weirdness times two.
Do I say "they promote from Troubadours, and the other side has the Bishop analogue, so they count in Troubadour rankings"? Or, do I say "they join as infantry with staves, and aren't offense-focused, so they count in Healer rankings"? Or, do I throw my hands up and declare "Maids and Butlers are weird, they don't belong anywhere"? That's basically what I've been going for.
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6 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:
I'm not familiar enough with japanese to know for sure what Im gonna say but isn't it possible that Alec somes from an attempt of translating Alex (just how some unofficial translations spelled Sigurd's name as Sigludo, or how Niime's name was a poor translation of Nemue (before it was made official, on her case))?, I think we still don't have Alec's name officially translated anywhere too.
In addition to what Jotari said, Alec's name in katakana is アレク (A-re-ku). There's no r/l distinction in Japanese, so this could be either "Arec" or "Alec". But as the latter isn't a name, so far as I'm aware, they translate it to "Alec".
Of course, there are ambiguous cases. Lex, in the same game, is レックス (Re-kku-su). While this can obviously be read as "Lex", it can just as easily be read as "Rex". Since both are recognized names, we have to really on the official localization to work it out.
Speaking of which, these names, in comvination, give us a clear path to "Alex". If that's the name they wanted to get across, they'd almost certainly write it as アレクス (A-re-ku-su). Since that's not how they wrote the green cavalier's name, we can be confident knowing that they were going for "Alec", not "Alex".
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Time to rank some Healers - the Priests, the Bishops, the Clerics, and the Curates. They're the sort of class I always tend to use - not only do they perform a unique function, but they're also not competing for experience with other combat units. This calculus may change a bit as you turn Mages to Sages, or if you have mounted healers at your disposal. But overall, it's almost always a good choice to bring along a staffbot or two.
So, how would I rank them - from worst to best? See below:
Spoiler11. Radiant Dawn. In a normal FE title, a Vulnerary can heal 10 HP, 3 times, for 30 HP total. In RD, it can heal 20 HP, 8 times, for 160 HP total. Oh, and every unit has 7 inventory slots. In this light, healing support isn't the most necessary thing. Laura has trouble even reaching a double-digit level within tier one, while Oliver is inferior tower filler. Rhys is kind of a magical glass cannon, but with his speed issues, he's mainly staff support filler. Heck, they even forgot to give you any healers in Part II, just having yellow Physic Bishops imitate the role. Not a class you get excited about using.
10. Path of Radiance. 11 EXP per Heal use. 9+ turns for a single level-up. Gee, thanks. Rhys is your only option here, but as such, he actually has a monopoly on healing in the earlygame. He also benefits from staves being readily stealable, especially Physics. After promotion, he's also your only Light magic user. All that said, staff support isn't the biggest of deals here, and his combat isn't anything special, either. Usable, but it's fine to drop him, too.
9. Genealogy. Curiously, an infantry healer is not your first healer this time. Rather, it's the mounted Ethlyn. Edain has her own advantages, like being able to use Warp and Physic staves. But 5 move means she'll be stuck, either on the backlines, or in the home castle. And a complete inability to use the Arena leaves her with no way to gain extra money and experience. Lana is relatively better, since he joins at the start of Seliph's arc, but she faces some similar issue. Claude feels very filler-y, while Coirpre can be a chore to get to promotion. A class with its uses, but definitely not at its high point.
8. Three Houses. This one was a bit tough to evaluate. The fact that Priest and Bishop stay stuck at 4 move is unfortunate, as is the poor combat - with no Tomefaire, and in a game where offensive Light magic is of little use. That said, the healing boost is great, particularly on Physic users. While Bishop's doubled spell charges means two Warps, which can make the difference in multi-bosskill maps. It's the ideal class for Linhardt, and a solid waypoint for Mercedes, Flayn, and Lysithea.
7. Fates. Right out the gate, I'm not counting Maids and Butlers - if I were, this would jump to 3rd place. Anyway, traditional infantry healers essentially don't exist in CQ, so we'll talk BR and Rev. Sakura is prerry good in both, Azama is fine in BR, and Izana is fine filler. Oh, Festals that you can use from 2-range were pretty cool to see.
6. FE7. Serra is "just okay", although she gets credit for being your first healer. Lucius is "pretty good, actually" - high Magic and Speed, plus instant C-staves when he promotes. Renault, I've never been a fan of - you get him for 2.5 chapters, one of which has Kishuna, and the other of which has Athos. Still, Priest and Bishop are perfectly usable classes in this game.
5. Awakening. Healtouch is a welcome skill, as is the instant Rescue access for staff users. Lissa can do work for you, although personally, I'm a bigger fan of Libra, as the only pre-promote (aside from Frederick) in the big "free love" pool. Oh yeah, and EXP for staff use is really high in this game.
4. FE6. Saul is likely the better of the two infantry healers, but Ellen at least gets credit for being your first healer. Having a unit who can train their way up to Physic and Warp is very valuable, and something they have over the mounted healers. But hey, even if you don't, there's still Yoder - who can potentially also use Aureola.
3. Sacred Stones. Moulder and Natasha may start out "just okay", although it's worth noting that they don't face meaningful competition until, like, halfway through the game. By that point, they'll have the opportunity to promote into the Bishop class - and likewise for Artur. With the fierce Slayer skill, Bishop becomes a premiere combat class, shredding through the monsters that predominate the lategame.
2. Echoes. In a game with no Vulneraries, no spare inventory slots for healing items beyond the earlygame, and magic and combat arts that exhaust HP - healing spells are a big deal. Silque, Genny, Tatiana, and (potentially) Faye all offer great support spells. And not only do they start with a combat option in Nosferatu, but once promoted, they gain an even stronger one in Seraphim. Plus, Saint outmoves Sage, Priestess, and Baron, while her passive adjacent healing is highly welcome in Celica's Act IV.
1. Shadow Dragon. 7-use Warp staves. A 13-use Hammerne. Infinite range on Physic, Fortify, and Warp. Suffice it to say, this is a strong game for staves. And their greatest user... Wrys? No, Lena! Lena is, simply put, a revolutionary unit here. By introducing Warp, she changes the way the game is played. And Hammerne drastically extends the life of powerful forges and regalia weapons. As for the Bishop class, it can be great for instant Mend on a promoted Merric or Linde.
Those are my thoughts, I am eager to read everyone else's!
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5 hours ago, ping said:
The translation patch (or rather pre-patched ROM) that I'm using and that is certainly not the newest fan translation uses Narga.
Okay, thank you. I thought Jotari was saying that there was some official material where a person is saying the name "Narga". That doesn't seem to be the case.
1 hour ago, Jotari said:If they wanted to call them Narga is a bit of a weird trend to go down since Japanese writer likely wouldn't want to call them that as it's just not something you can really say in Japanese. Plus it's not a word Kaga came up with himself. Naga are a popular snake monster psuedo religious thing across wider East Asia (unless those Naga are pronounced in no way like the word is rendered). And even then, if it is what they were going for, I would not go with the vowl extender = r if I were reading it. Maybe some transliterations do go that route, but for me at least, if I see the vowel extender then in going to read it as an elongated vowel and not tier any more sounds into it that aren't there. It's really a problem with both English and Katakana. English letters don't know what an actual phoneme is and are just masquerading as an alphabet, meanwhile in Japan they went to the trouble of creating an entirely new script for foreign words but made zero effort to actually use it to create the sounds foreign languages use -_- making the thing more or less pointless. I low-key hate katakana.
So, for comparison, I looked to Japanese names for Pokemon. Koffing, for instance, is ドガース. The most common way to transliterate this would be "Dogaasu". But, Koffing also has a romaji name, which is "Dogars". As another example, Magmar is ブーバー. The direct transliteration in "Buubaa", but the romaji name is instead "Boober". Yes, really. If you ever feel embarassed about your name, just know that it could be worse. Your parents could've named you "Boober".
Point is, turning "mora that ends in a, followed by a vowel extender" into "-ar" isn't exactly untread ground, as far as Japanese-language transliteration goes. It's not a one-to-one, as sounds exist in either language that don't happen in the other.
1 hour ago, Jotari said:Imo we should all move over to IPA post haste. It is the metric system of written language.
əəəəə...
I prefer Dunkel. Or Radler in the summer months.
1 hour ago, Jotari said:That is probably what I'm thinking of instead of feeding him ever dracoshield.
TBH I don't really want to revisit FE1, but if I do, I would definitely make mega-Bantu.
9 minutes ago, BrightBow said:And as the opening crawl and later dialog shows, the humans think "Naga" is a giant (and very much human) warrior god from heaven who banished the "evil dragons" and was the one who forced the rest into human form.
Hold up - Amazon Warrior Naga time?
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2 hours ago, BrightBow said:
Definitely not. That 15 base defense is not going to last him throughout the whole game, especially with his meager HP and Speed. He is gonna be torn apart after a while. He also can't deal any damage in return.
Wait, can't you use a promotion item on Bantu in FE1 to buff his defense, without actually consuming the item? I assume that anyone who wants to use Bantu long-term would be exploiting this mechanic.
15 hours ago, Jotari said:The r is still there and spoken in part though. Overall it seems like a weird fan translation that failed to capture the actual essence of the name. We wouldn't have these issues if English could just be like all the other languages and use some bloody diacritics.
Well, one question to ask is - if the name they originally had in mind was "Narga", then how would they write that in katakana? Something like ナルガ (na-ru-ga) could hypothetically work, but that would be flawed, on account of creating a middle "ru" syllable, where it's not supposed to exist. As for ナーガ (naa-ga), while it's missing a "hard r" sound, that's not something that was necessarily even intended. The sound of a long "ahhhh" is probably closer to how English-speakers would say "ar", than going with "a-ru".
Also, maybe I missed the original context for this discussion, but who is speaking the name "Narga"? Are we talking the old OVA? The Sattelaview game? Some other source?
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On 11/6/2023 at 6:15 PM, Jotari said:
How did Naga tribe become Narga? Surely the Japanese original is just the two hirigana for na and ga.
So, the name in Japanese is ナーガ. "Na" + (vowel extender) + "ga". I would transliterate this as "Naaga" or "Nahga". Essentially the same sound as "Naga", but with the first syllable emphasized.
That said, I can understand where "Narga" comes from. They probably weren't going for a "hard r" sound, but for the kind of vowel change that "-ar" has, relative to "-a". Like the difference between "part" and "pat".
On 11/7/2023 at 1:08 PM, ping said:Maybe because Naga could theoretically be pronounced "Nay-ga"? At least I think it can, English is weird.
Yeah, that's a good point too. If they wanted it to be "Nay-ga", they probably would've gone with ネーガ. Of course, that would be most directly transliterated as "Neega", which people might think sounds like "Knee-ga". Alas, getting vowel sounds across between language is no easy one-to-one feat.
2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:Personally, I think the DS art is better for Minerva here,
but that could in part just be me not wanting women to be happy."Resting bitch face" Minerva is indeed best Minerva.
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12 hours ago, Jotari said:
In terms of Zelda stories to adapt, I think the most appropriate would be The Wind Waker or Spirit Tracks. As they both have a more robust, relevant and mobile supporting cast than most Zelda games. But there's little point in even entertaining the idea that they'll go for any setting that isn't primarily Ocarina of Time with a bit of A Link to the Past sprinkled in.
Prediction - they're going to adapt Twilight Princess, by slapping a CGI Midna on top of a nature documentary about wolves.
10 hours ago, lenticular said:I think that the best approach would be to tell a completely new story rather than try to adapt any specific game. That way gives more freedom to write for film with the fewest constraints. But if they do try to do a specific game, I'm going to go against the grain and say that I'd like to see Link's Awakening. I think that the whimsical dreamlike quality could translate well, and there's a decent emotional core to work with in Link's relationship with Marin. I'd be very surprised if they went down that path, but it's one I'd be interested in.
That would be really neat to see! But I'm highly doubtful of getting an inaugural Legend of Zelda film that doesn't feature... y'know... Zelda.
12 hours ago, Jotari said:The story of Zelda typically involves Link going to several dungeons to collect several items to reach the next plot beat. How can you maintain that for a 100 minute movie while still having good pacing and not being redundant? How can you even implement a dungeon, let alone several, without it just ending up being an extended fight scene?
Obviously, the second through the second-to-last dungeon will be portrayed solely in a three-minute montage, with an upbeat "Zero to Hero"-like track blaring over all of Link's discoveries and bosskills.
47 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:Yeah; it would be far easier to make a Zelda movie in animation; a live-action film is going to need enough CG that it may as well be fully animated. If the hardest thing to realize on-screen in a story is that story's world, then it probably should be animated.
I'd be all for a return to 80's-style practical effects, please and thank you. Give me Gorons in the way of TNG Klingons, dammit!
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1 hour ago, Jotari said:
On a Wednesday!? How devilish. You guys get a day off for it yet (I say that as if it's a holiday where I'm from when it's not {well, I think, been a while since I've lived there}, course we don't have the issue of people fainting in lines because they need to wait so long either).
It was Tuesday when I posted this (and still is, here in Eagleland). Election Day is always "the day after the first Monday in November", and it's not a holiday. Would be cool to see it changed as such, but my state has early voting (including on weekends) as an option, so I don't see it as essential.
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11 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:
Base stats nearly the same as Koffing, but with Attack and Special Attack swapped.
Huh, I didn't know that Koffing and Weezing actually had higher Attack than Special Attack. Always thought of them as special attackers. Of course, a shift of 5 points here or there won't change much.
11 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:- 1: Poison Gas
- 1: Tackle
- 4: Smog
- 8: Mist
- 12: Icy Wind
- 16: Avalanche
- 20: Frost Breath
- 24: Haze
- 28: Self-Destruct
- 32: Ice Beam
- 36: Toxic
- 40: Blizzard
- 44: Explosion
- 48: Memento
- 52: Destiny Bond
Definitely a fan of the movepool! It should also get Sludge Bomb, although that one can be taught via TM, so it's not essential to learn via level-up. Speaking of which, since Ice Beam and Blizzard are both TM moves, maybe one could be replaced by a different Ice-type attack, such as Freeze-Dry or Icicle Crash? Oh, and if we want to go with "breath"-type moves, then a fun flavor option would be Dragonbreath.
11 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:Alternatively, my brother suggested Pokemon called Sniffling and Sneezing, which would be similar-but-different in a manner not unlike Diglett/Wiglett and Tentacool/Toedscool, though they were complete type changes while this would still retain the Poison-type.
Love the names, and the idea for "convergent species"! Or whatever they're calling them.
11 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:I could however see them resembling a virus in form, with little spheres around their bodies. Though that might be hitting a bit close to home for the modern day.
That would be a really cool design choice, personally! Koffing already almost looks like a coronavirus, haha. Hm... in light of your "Sickness" proposal, perhaps one of "Sniffling" and "Sneezing"'s abilities could be called "Contagious"? Basically, after the attacker uses a contact move against this Mon, both their attacking stats would fall by one stage. Kind of like Goodra's "Gooey", but lowering offenses instead of Speed. Could make this Mon a decent tank, in spite of its typing.
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It's Election Day, in the USA! Please vote, if you are able to do so. Even if it's only local and county-level races where you are, those can make a big difference on your day-to-day experience.
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1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:
Got an idea for an Ice/Poison type: A Koffing/Weezing variant, perhaps themed on colds. They'd be based on the sicknesses that often crop up around wintertime. I'd even consider introducing a "Sick" status that weakens the affected Pokemon by lowering their stats by one stage each, or even halving them. Like most statuses, Rest can cure it, as can Medicine.
Idea - it's ordinary Koffing/Weezing, except much paler in color, and now wearing a mask on every one of its mouths. It'd be our first Ice/Poison type, a STAB combo that only Steel would resist. Having options like Icy Wind and Ice Beam would be really cool. It's not the best defensive typing - weak to Fire, Steel, Psychic, Rock, and Ground - although if it keeps Levitate, then that last one isn't a problem.
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1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:
Promoted Lachesis and Leif can also use A rank axes, though they probably won't use them most of the time. You really only need one axe user for each gen.
I tend to give either one the Silver Axe, because... it's an A-rank Axe, who else is going to use it? The only other candidates are Lex (rocking the Brave Axe) in Gen I, and Johan or Johalva (again, rocking the Brave Axe) in Gen II. At least on your Master Knight, it provides an occasionally good answer to Lance-wielding enemies.
11 hours ago, Jotari said:Who eventually became Volzhin in the remakes. The modification Jiol has was to give him a mohawk.
The barber, I trust, was executed shortly after this crime against style?
Would explain how it grew back over the next 20 years.
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33 minutes ago, Jotari said:
Even if they wouldn't exactly be shifters, I would also accept winged angels using weapons as a new species for the series.
Nintendo of America: "Let me stop you right there."
I'd welcome an FE title with Angelic and Demonic races, certainly, but I fear the "overt religious imagery" might pique a few brows. Wouldn't want the game to come across as excessively for, or excessively against, or excessively ambivalent on, Christianity.
Still, I think there's room to incorporate more fantasy-oriented races, such as Naiads and Dryads. They could have Dragon Vein-like powers, too: Naiads could fill or drain riverbeds, while Dryads raise or raze forests.
40 minutes ago, Jotari said:Hereos actually has bat shifters (can't recall if you're still on the Heroes train).
Oh, really? The more you know. Haven't touched Heroes in years.
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17 hours ago, Jotari said:
I think those stat lines are incredibly pronounced though. Much more than Hi okay vs Tsubaki. It's more like Hinoka vs Benni.
Look, all I'm saying is, Kaden with a Beastrune looks an awful lot like Keaton with a Beaststone. ...Or not, IDK. They feel like the "Myrmidon vs Mercenary" distinction, if any of the games actually went hard into making Mercs the slow-and-bulky ones, rather than copping out and leaving them "balanced".
17 hours ago, Jotari said:They're all using the same transformation mechanic though, and all of them are characterized by having one personal weapon without access to other weapons. Birds and beasts having the same movement is like called pegasus and cavaliers similar because they have the same movement.
TBH I think Cavaliers and Pegasus Knights are closer to each other than either one is to Armor Knight. But that discussion would get us too far afield.
17 hours ago, Jotari said:You know, it would be nice to see bird type beast units again. All flying units being people on mounts is starting to get a tad boring.
Damn straight. Would love to see birdfolk make a comeback, whether or not they're laguz. Or maybe bat-shifters, or even playable Gargoyles?
8 hours ago, Whisky said:And in 3H, any class can use any weapon type for the most part, including any magic class being able to use any type of magic. But Dark Knights are one of the only classes in the game to have a bonus to using Dark Magic. The other being Gremory.
Also Valkyrie, technically. The class gets Dark Magic Range +1.
8 hours ago, Jotari said:With all that being said, I feel I should toss, to everyone not just Whiskey, is Veyle a Dark Mage? Dark Magic doesn't exist in Engage, but she uses Obscurite as a prf which looks pretty darky. And we're probably not going to have a chance to talk about her in any other class since she's not a real Dragon.
IMO I don't think every unit in series history has to "fit" one of the categories we're using. Veyle is weird enough that I wouldn't call her a "Dark Mage" type.
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So, when I start the map, I generally run through the list of enemies, for aspects of interest. Stuff like stealables, killer weapons, siege tomes, and status staves. This helps me prep: "oh, if there's an Elixir, I should bring my Thief. Oh, if there's a Sleep Staff Bishop, I should bring a Restore Staff." Stuff like that. I also like to have a clear plan for turn 1, which determines how I lay out my units. "Okay, I'll send Miledy down towards the Village, have Bartre one-shot the enemy Mage with Fir in support range, and Dance for Douglas so he can greet the Cavaliers on enemy phase."
Beyond that, though, I tend to take things "turn-by-turn". Where possible, I'll send the "frontmost" units further ahead to take whatever enemies are in ramge, while my "backliners" finish off the closer-by enemies that I drew in last turn. Who goes after whom depends on matchup quality. Like, say there are two Nomads. Percival can one-round either one, while Noah and Treck combine to defeat a single one. In that case, it'd be a waste to have Noah and Percival combine for a kill, because then Treck can't finish off the remaining Nomad.
What degree of "planning everything out" is appropriate and warranted will, of course, vary from player-to-player. I'm probably more cautious than most, although I'd like to think I've moved away from the "turtling" of my younger days. ...At least, outside of a strict Ironman context.
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1 hour ago, Jotari said:
Laguz are no more different to beast Laguz than beast Laguz are to bird Laguz.
Lore-wise, sure. Gameplay-wise, no way.
Beast and Bird Laguz are generally high-move, high-speed units, that attack physically at 1-range.
Dragon Laguz are low-move, low-speed units who can attack at 2-range, but the attacking formula varies with specific breed.
1 hour ago, Jotari said:Wolfskins and Kitsune by themselves are very different units
...Eh, not really. They're both 5-move units, that promote to 6-move. Both learn Beastfoe, but also have a beast-type weakness. Their other skill is the opposite of each other, but essentially, has the same effect (+4 damage every other turn). And they pull from the same weapon "beaststone" pool. The most substantive difference is in statlines: Kaden is "the Myrmidon", while Keaton is "the Armor Knight". Which changes how they play, sure, but to not much greater degree than, say, Hinoka vs. Tsubaki.
1 hour ago, Jotari said:We've also already discussed Corrin (though not Kana who is pushed to use stones more) as a lord.
Yeah, I don't know what to think of Corrin in this regard. They're not strictly a Manakete... but neither are the Dragon Laguz, and I definitely think it's fine to rank them among the Manaketes.
Eh... if the popular call is to do all the shifters together, then I could just cope by making two separate lists. There's not enough to treat "Birdformers" as their own thing - unfortunately, they're a Tellius exclusive thus far. Also, we already ranked the Herons as Dancers.
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I want to be the best, there ever was.
To beat all the rest - yeah, that's my cause!
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So, I'm only going to count classes that can innately use Dark Magic. The only exception I'll make are the Dark Mage and Sorceror classes, in the Archanea remakes. This is a class type that took a while to become playable, but ever since, it's been around most of the time. How would I rank them, from worst to best?
Spoiler8. Radiant Dawn. I'll forgive any players who aren't aware that this class exists, as it takes a second playthrough. Pelleas is the only "Dark Sage", and he doesn't show up until Part IV, giving him a whopping... two chapters, and maybe the Tower. But at least he can use cool tomes like Nosferatu and Luna, right? Nope - tongue-twisting names aside, the Dark tomes of Tellius have no secondary effects. Congratulations, RD, you've done something no other game has achieved - you made Dark Magic boring.
7. Three Houses. To start with, you need a "Dark Seal" to even access this (male-exclusive) class. And all but the most enterprising players won't have one, until the end of chapter 6. Next, while Poison Strike has its uses, it's typically inferior to Fiendish Blow from Mage. But to the Dark Mage's credit, the class has a 1-point Magic advantage over Mage (and likewise for Dark Bishop over Warlock). In this light, it's a great class for a male unit who has already mastered Mage, and doesn't have any other Intermediate masteries to gain. While Dark Bishop can have "niche" uses, say, to get 1 extra tile of Warp distance. Inferior classes, but not totally useless.
6. Fates. Odin and Nyx are flawed units, but they still have their uses in Conquest. Tomes are decently well-balanced... except against Shurikens, which destroy them. Ophelia can turn out better than either one, but she takes a while to access. As for Revelation, these units are sadly left by the wayside. In general, it's not the worst reclass option for Niles, Leo, or Flora, but having exclusive access to Nerfsferatu is hardly a boon.
5. Shadow Dragon. Etzel is the only playable Sorceror (by default) in the game, and he comes pretty late - not until chapter 17x. Still, he's not half-bad - able to use the likes of Thoron and Excalibur from the get-go. He can also use Starlight, if no one else can. He's filler, but can be a solid replacement to your dead Mages. As for Dark Mage, it can be a fun reclass for someone like Cord or Draug. There are very few "natural Mages" in that class pool, but getting another tome user that early on can be a nice change of pace.
4. Sacred Stones. So, I feel like the GBA games are actually very tight with each other. Dark Mages offer something interesting and valuable, but different, in each one. In Magvel, it's the ability to Summon - a really cool technique to distract and bait foes. That said, there's not much more they bring. Knoll joins later than I'd like, while Ewan takes a ton of babying. Luna is also far less accurate than in the last game. It's worth noting that Druid adds Anima to its repertoire, but it's still the inferior choice to Summoner.
3. FE6. Tomes aren't very heavy in this game, and Nosferatu is no exception. Rei comes just under halfway through the game, and can be a great contributor, especially supporting with Lugh and/or Chad. As for Niime, she joins in the lategame, and while she's frail, her high ranks and Magic stat give her some key utility. But Luna doesn't exist yet, and the class is dragged down by Sophia - possibly the worst unit in the game. Still, one of the class' stronger outings.
2. FE7. Canas is the only user of the class in this game, but he comes well before the midpoint of Eliwood/Hector's story. None of his stats are exceptional, but none are bad, either. This gives him surprising bulk, and once he's doubling, few enemies will survive. Promoting also gives big stat boosts, relative to other classes in this game. Moreover, he's the only user of the premier Luna tome before the Endgame, which will just get stronger as enemy Res increases. Canas isn't a "must-bring", but he's one of the best investment units around.
1. Awakening. Was there any doubt? Nosferatu is readily buyable, forgeable, and with no Weight stat holding it back! Nosfertanking has never been better, with Sorceror's Vengeance adding to the effect. Tharja and Henry are both solid units, while it's a great reclass choice for Robin or Miriel. In a juggernaut-oriented game, of course the class that juggernauts best would be in the lead.
I might do a smaller post comparing Dark Knights, or... maybe all mounted Mage classes? Not decided yet!
@Zapp Branniglenn I personally think "Manaketes" and "Beastformers" should be separate threads. My assessment of Manaketes in Awakening is very different from my assessment of Taguel, and I don't feel comfortable "averaging" the two.
What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?
in General Fire Emblem
Posted
Well, the Ocean Seal is weird, by its very existence. Pirates (Geese) could already promote via the Hero Crest, so why not keep that the case? And why is this new promotion item so valuable? They (sort of) regularized it in Sacred Stones, even if Thieves using it makes little sense, flavor-wise.
I'm a little conflicted here, because most games do hide "one-of-a-kind" items, such as the Boots or the Silver Card, in the desert. Those sorts of things are a big deal to miss. Personally, I like the idea of using "tile sparkles", as Awakening introduced, to show where hidden treasure is. That way, as long as the player is observant enough, they won't miss anything, even without a guide. This would particularly make Radiant Dawn, a game with treasure in almost half the maps, way less of a hassle.