omegaxis1

Time travel wasn't as complicated or as confusing as people make it out to be for Awakening. But the "untold" version does make sense. Because let's face it, Gaiden doesn't actually give that much of the story that really makes sense, given the era they lived in. Giving a large expanded version would be ideal so that we can really understand these things much better.

Is it? Is it really? I mean, turning two gods that had zero relations to the other events in the world despite being the same verse as Jugdral and Archanea into being very much connected to other games seems very good in my opinion. In my opinion, this makes Valentia even more awesome because it has more history and understanding than Valentia did before.

I'm not completely denying what Kaga said. I'm saying that it just feels off that we have Mila and Duma just be referred to as gods, but then we really never see them be involved in anything ever again. Even in Awakening, Mila is at best mentioned. The dragons that held humans in the most contempt was the Earth Dragons, which was confirmed in an interview regarding Loptyr in Genealogy. This actually makes me wonder. This was from Mystery, and then in New Mystery, it was changed to them having a brutal war. In that case, would you consider that by New Mystery, the thing about the extinction being more of a retcon? But if most of the dragons expended their energy, its possible why they would die out more and more. That would explain why Naga also died afterwards when she was only 5000 years old, and since we see Bantu to be an old man at the time of Shadow Dragon and hinted to be still alive by Awakening, he's bound to be several thousand years older past Naga herself. Unless they retcon a bunch of stuff from Shadow Dragon/New/Mystery, we really can't have any Earth Dragons be part of this, since first they'll have to explain that not all Earth Dragons hold humans in contempt, then explaining that two Earth Dragons left, and then having that Naga never got involved with them despite how Divine and Earth Dragons are pretty much at odds. Eh, at this point, Xane is sort of a wild card explanation and doesn't prove nor disprove either side of the argument. Its like, we can't just say its a Manakete ability, cause that doesn't make sense for the others, and it might not be a Divine Dragon thing since their dragon abilities are gone. Actually, it was confirmed that Naga DIDN'T know what Loptyr was up to until almost 200 years after the Divine Dragons won the war against the Earth Dragons. She went to Jugdral after realizing that. Not sure how she got that info, but she got it. But given how this is an issue from another continent, Xane and Gotoh probably felt there was no need to delve into that story. Even though its potentially hinted that Marth descended from Sigurd/Seliph's bloodline. Simple. Cause Duma is an edgelord as stated by Werdna. No one understands even now why he has that laser eye. But he probably thought it made him look cool or a badass. And really, his original sprite is strange in how he looks like a SLIME MONSTER. Hell, everyone was wondering just WTF Duma was when Gaiden was out. I think that's the entire point. They're really trying to connect the lores of the verse they know exist in the same universe. Since Mila and Duma aren't mentioned so deeply around on what they are, how they came to be, it does make more sense for them to be dragons, but more specifically the Divine Dragons. Of course, this also makes the issue with the second Falchion, the timeline of the degeneration, etc.

We have a real god in the Tellius series, but it just doesn't fit into the lore within the Archanea series where Naga doesn't really fit with Mila and Duma, but now it makes sense. Again, not really. When we have theories and evidence of mention of the contrary, it no longer seems like Mila and Naga are totally unrelated. Also, given how Earth Dragons were stated to view humans as insects and held them in contempt, while Divine Dragons had sympathy towards them, particularly Naga, its unlikely for Mila and Duma to be Earth Dragons. Okay, maybe Duma, but not Mila. Actually, Xane DIDN'T confirm anything about that. He explained the war of the Earth Dragons and Divine Dragons, and said it was a brutal and long war, along those lines, but he never said that the Divine Dragons all died. Of course, not saying that Divine Dragons couldn't have been killed afterwards, cause in the end, they DID become Manaketes and thus was physically vulnerable to being killed and oppressed by humans. Tiki was constantly sleeping and is now worshipped as an oracle, Gotoh founded the city of magic, while Bantu and Xane just travels around, with Bantu searching for other Manaketes. What became of them is unknown, but Bantu is hinted to still be alive, but Gotoh and Xane, not sure. Maybe they died when Grima rose to power 1000 years prior to Awakening. But Duma and Mila being exiled Divine Dragons doesn't seem like a stretch. If anything, it shows a unique aspect where even a Divine Dragon can be misguided and at times in the wrong, thus adding a bit moral gray. Yes, the Manakete is the human form. But that doesn't mean they have the ability to change that human form any time they want. Xane being able to shift his human form to mimic others that no other Manakete able to do that just means its a unique trait to Xane himself. But that doesn't disprove that Divine Dragons don't possess their own unique skills and techniques. Naga doesn't show to be able to revive the dead, but Mila can, despite Naga being the most powerful Divine Dragon.

Well of COURSE its humanoid, since we see that she can take human form. But those statues didn't really have her hair color, so you can't actually base that on anything. And you actually CAN'T say that Duma and Mila being Divine Dragons a stretch, because its canon from this point forward. Also, if anything, them being Divine Dragons makes far more sense than them being known to be actual gods, given how this is still the same verse as Archanea, which Naga is the closest thing to a god, and she's a Divine Dragon, not a true god. It was never said that all the Divine Dragons died in that war at all. If anything, the dragons simply went into hiding or lived among humans, since living with the humans was their idea. Okay, and your point? Earth and shadow might be interconnected through that, but then you can really invoke the same concept to Divine Dragons. Fire creates light, wind is tended to be associated with light as well. Life and light go hand in hand. Original gaiden didn't really give a full form of the beings themselves. Duma was a slime monster, and Mila was at best a statue. Not real legit evidence there you've got. And no, there was NO mention they were dragons. Just called them gods and that was it. Dragons is only being mentioned now, which makes sense. However, they can't be Earth Dragons because of the fact that all Earth Dragons went insane from degradation of the mind, and Medeus is confirmed to be the sole Manakete from the Earth Dragon Tribe. Loptyr was an Earth Dragon, but he began to possess via blood pact. Unfortunately, that's incorrect. The manakete form is giving a human form and dragon form, and Xane then threw away his Dragonstone. His transformation abilities are his and only his. The fact he can perform these unique aspects just strengthens the argument that Divine Dragons are not as limited to a light element as you say. As for Gotoh, can't really say much for him, cause he never fought his own powers, but rather just used his knowledge to create magic tomes, the famous one being Aura I believe and Starlight. I wouldn't use that as an argument. That's nothing more than a game mechanic, not a true aspect of the manakete species themselves, as its stated that they can only take the dragon form from the dragonstone they seal their powers in, because that is their powers held in.

Mila and Duma didn't actually make a humanoid appearance until the Remake if you wanna get technical. Also, Duma was colored green as that slime monster. Earth Dragons are as powerful as Divine Dragons, but they ultimately still lost the war against the Divine Dragons in the long run. Also, despite being called "Earth" Dragons, their powers are less "earth" based and more "darkness" based. And were we not just talking about how Mila and Duma, despite being Divine Dragons, controlled elements not light elemental? Earth, darkness, etc? If anything, that pretty much proved Divine Dragons are not limited to single elemental. Actually, I think he's more surprised Corrin was alive, since the sword was rigged to first drag Corrin into the Bottomless Canyon, and then explode and impale Corrin in shrapnel. Also, thinking about it, Anankos controls Garon and created/found/took the sword Ganglari, so the sword dragging Corrin into the Canyon that would lead to Valla means the intention was to make Corrin a vessel possibly, and if that failed, kill him. Someone that I debated with talks about how Conquest is the far less bloody route, and how Birthright is the worst one. His main argument on Birthright does make sense, as Corrin is the most ignorant on Birthright as neither Gunter, not Valla ever gets mentioned or heard of in Birthright. Though we do learn about the damaging effects of the song. Going in order: I'm assuming Rudolf didn't want to be the one to save the continent. He's committed may atrocities and thus what Valentia needed was a hero that could unite the continent under the right banner. Its like how in Avatar: The Last Airbender, Iroh wouldn't face his brother to save the world, because history would see it as more violence, a brother killing brother to grab power, so it needs to be the Avatar that wins, as the Avatar represents justice. We learn that there are actually TWO Falchions. The one in Valentia is the first original Falchion. The one in Archanea was made afterwards. Both are likely equal in power. It never went back to Archanea. A better question is, "Where is it now by the time of Awakening?" I think it was only Gradivus that made Valentia, which I don't like, cause it technically should have remained in Archanea, as Hardin took it. No idea. Probably they went to investigate something. Does she? Who knows. The game isn't even out for us. Wasn't it Rudolf that actually made the plan this entire time?

Really? Opposite for me. If anything, I tend to see both the good and bad side of Nohr and Hoshido. Also, think about this. On a point of characters, if you're Corrin, the family you know if Nohr. Even if forced a choice to choose between families, you would naturally go back to the family you know more. However, the way Fates set the prologue up, its showing why you SHOULDN'T go back to Nohr and the only reason you'd go back is to be with the family you know your entire life, as Birthright is the path where you openly embrace your ideals and cannot stand Garon's tyranny. However, the moral grey is muddied and thus hard to understand, cause they try to focus so much on black and white. Hell, Hoshido is called the white kingdom and Nohr is the black kingdom. I prefer BlazingKnight's version, where both sides have legit reasons for hostility towards the other. Simple: Green hair. Not kidding when I say that. Naga, Tiki, Mila, Duma, they all have green hair. Blaming that more on how Awakening's plot was rushed when they actually could have turned this into a Genealogy or Tellius series in its own right. Not really. I mean, their attack is called "Mist Breath" which isn't even really an element in itself. Light is just the more often associated element with Divine Dragons, but by no means are they stated to just control that element solely. Given the vast knowledge and power they wield, and that they are considered the most powerful dragon race that even other dragons fear/respect, being able to command elements or have abilities beyond the limitation they usually possess gives them that much more credibility.

How exactly did Hoshido get a pass for it? If anything, everyone calls out Hoshido on this. If anything, Zofia's the one that seems to have gotten the pass.

Actually, Plegia might have had issues with crop, but they were not suffering at all. They had access to trade by sea, allowing them to perform intercontinental trade. Plegia had to pay Ylisse and Regna Ferox for the war damages and they STILL had excess gold to fund Ylisse for the war against Valm. So Plegia were by no means doing poorly financially, meaning that the citizens likely were not starving because they could simply buy food easily. Their hatred to Ylisse was more on Chrom's father launching a bloody crusade for several years in an attempt to wipe out the Grimleal. Same reason why Mila can somehow control the earth/life to bring the dead back and also bring crops, and Duma is the edgelord that has dark powers. Just because someone is referred to as Divine does not mean they are purely light based. Once again, the topic of Forseti being most likely a Divine Dragon despite wind powers would mean that Divine Dragons are not limited to a single element.

Give me a bit. Its a very long read, and I like to really look at it to express my response. Archanea IS technically the BEGINNING of Fire Emblem. Marth was the original hero of the Fire Emblem and is still known as the face of the franchise. And honestly, given his character, I think he earned his spot there. Well no. Tellius had dragons as well, and they're known to be the top of the species bested only by other dragons or gods. But Magvel clearly has dragons be a powerful race that once again goes into decline. Actually, I believe originally the dragons in Elibe lived in harmony with humans. But then something happened where the humans began attacking the dragons because humans are a bunch of dicks and attacks the humans to provoke a war, and then the dragons began to be desperate and produced war dragons, the humans created the legendary weapons, and caused the ice age to occur. Ironically, the Elibe series sort of shows that humans are the true wrongdoers and not dragons, and that Roy was fighting for the bad guys all this time and that Zephiel was truly the right. Mindblown, am I right? XD As for the case of the degeneration, there was nothing magical mentioned in Archanea, or even Fates for that matter. Archanea says that it just... happened. Dragons just suddenly lost the ability to have kids, and slowly degenerated into madness. Of course, its not that they forever lost it, but they likely just couldn't have kids as easily at that point anymore. The proof that dragons can still be born is because Nowi proved to be born 1000 years before Awakening, making her younger than Tiki even, and before Nowi, Tiki was known to be the last Manakete of the dragon clans. For Fates, no idea. Degeneration happened, but there were very little worldbuilding done there. I believe it was mentioned that the 5 Gemstones are actually Dragonstones as well, similar to the Divine Weapons for Jugdral, where the weapons were or had Dragonstones on them. In which case, its possible that unlike others, these Dragonstones held the very essence of life and power of 5 other Divine Dragons, and they sacrificed themselves to empower the Shield of Seals Naga forged from her fang. Also, the Scouring in Elibe only upset the balanced and caused the ice age in that world, but there was never any mention of such an event for the rest of the continents, and the dragons actually fled from Elibe in the Dragons Gate into a world better suited for them. Does it mean they potentially went to Archanea? Well, if they did, they screwed up, cause its another hell waiting for them. Yes, Echoes has more or less confirmed that Naga forged 1 Falchion to give to Duma and then forged another one after sealing the Earth Dragons away. That would be idea. But then again, the creators love to cock tease us all to death.

It's actually: Lifesphere - Gules Starsphere - Azure Lightsphere - Argent Darksphere - Sable Geosphere - Vert

When have we NOT been at the mercy of the devs being vague about everything? XD Or they could have the confirmation about the rag tag team. But the reason why it seems like that the Divine Dragons would more likely get involved is because Earth Dragons and Divine Dragons were the ones at odds, rather than the other Tribes. Also, it would not surprise me if the remake has the timelines changed completely.

But there were never any mention of other tribes even referred to as a Wind Dragon. Mage/Earth/Fire/Ice/Divine Dragons, and then Wyverns, but that's it. Even if there was intention, the result ended up with no Wind Tribe, but a Divine Tribe. And I believe it actually WAS confirmed that Forseti was in fact a Divine Dragon. Why not? If anything, the fact they have unique abilities, or rather Xane does, just shows an affinity of power that is unique to them. Also, I was also considering the Fire Dragon Tribe, but mostly because terms like "Holy" goes through translations to mean "Divine", but the Salamander thing was making me think that perhaps there was a bunch of different dragons that worked together, but beats me if its the truth. They were certainly very vague in their dialogue, even from the interview. This makes me wonder if there will be a remake of Genealogy, where we can finally see an improved story that ties up all loose ends. Of course, we'll also get the whole thing about Grima being connected to Loptyr, given the parallels they have going for them.

This actually begs the question as to whether the Divine Dragons were revered to be the most powerful because they were not limited to some single element, but aside from their normal Mist Breath attack, they possessed an affinity toward an element of power that allowed them to be exceptionally powerful. Naga definitely possessed the Light element, but Mila might not be as much of an earth element as opposed to a Life element. She is revered to restore the dead to life, and it wouldn't surprise me if Mila used her life restoration powers to bring crops to life.

And Forseti was wind based. Its interesting how the Divine Dragons possessed powers and abilities that are not limited to just light element. What makes this more intriguing is that Jugdral, where even the dragon that gave Valflame, Salamand/er, might have been a Divine Dragon as well, rather than a Fire Dragon.

In all honesty, I think the Demon King will remain as such. Unlike Grima, we get more info on him than we did with Grima. Grima lacked any and all forms of background information, and its only now that we are seeing some stuff about Grima, and already Grima's more epic just knowing that. Grima isn't some dragon or anything, no, he is an abomination, a creature that should never have existed, created using dark alchemy from corpses of feral dragons, and living blood from Divine Dragons (possibly Naga or Tiki even) and created this creature that's both alive and dead (Frankenstein much? XP). I was actually glad to find out that Mila and Duma are in fact Divine Dragons. It just feels weird that one continent has real gods that meddle with humans, and then another continent had dragons hailed as gods. If they remake the Elibe and Magvel series, I would wanna know if they are planning on making the worlds be the same.

Basically from the timeline, Duma's Falchion that went to Alm was the first Falchion. Then after the war with the Earth Dragons, Naga made another Falchion as well as the Shield of Seals, and then with Loptyr, Naga had the Book of Naga made. Now, Walhart being possibly Alm's descendent, it makes some interesting sense. Think of this, Alm fought and failed to kill Grima. Walhart naturally feels it is his destiny to slay Grima. Also, given that the Fire Emblem can be used to unlock Falchion's true power, then Walhart could potentially perform an Awakening as well, if he's got the bloodline of Duma in him.

You know what they say. Dragons make everything better. Actually, the verse of Archanea (later Ylisse), which exists in the same realm as Valentia (later Valm) and Jugdral, dragons have likely to be the source of major conflicts. Unlike Tellius, where we have actual gods, and Magvel, that has actual demons, dragons have been the major things in Fire Emblem. Also, in a sense, one of the sense of wonders in this one is that gods in Archanea aren't truly gods, but dragons with godly powers. If anything, for most Fire Emblem, there are no true gods. I do agree that we shouldn't have anymore Earth Dragons as enemies. Actually, there has not been a SINGLE Earth Dragon that is good, and likely there never will. Medeus was once good, but humans screwed that up by becoming prejudiced against Manaketes, and Loptyr always hated humans. The rest of the Earth Dragons went insane, and the only being descended from Earth Dragons is Grima, and he's not even a true Earth Dragon, or a true dragon in general, but an abomination that exists between life and death created by a mad alchemist. The thing with Manaketes is that it was a proposal made by the Divine Dragon elders. I think based on how we're seeing it, dragons always had the ability to take human form, but before, they could retain all the powers they held as dragons. However, when becoming a Manakete, their dragon powers are forever sealed away in a stone, meaning that Manaketes become as powerless as a true human without their stone. What drove dragons to madness was their own dragon powers. Now how this relates to Mila and Duma not being Manakets (I think), and them still being somewhat sane, is unknown.

Its just amazing how every form of conflict in the majority of the Fire Emblem verse (not counting the other realms of Elibe, Tellius, and Magvel) ORIGINATES in Archanea, where Valentia has Duma and Mila going to Valentia only because Naga told the edgelord Duma to GTFO (oh god, Werdna is getting to me!) and Mila decides to follow her brother around. Then Loptyr goes to Jugdral when the war with the Divine Dragons and Earth Dragons goes south for him.

Yeah, one of Nagi's titles is said to be "Dragon King Incarnation/Reincarnated" and Medeus commented to Nagi like he knew her, and said that unlike him, Nagi revived much weaker, further indicating that Nagi is Naga reincarnated. After Naga died, Naga likely reincarnated as Nagi. And the Naga in Awakening can very well be a Divine Dragon that took the name Naga, because in Future Past 3, Tiki took the role of Naga as well. Naga pretty much became a title. But if the degradation of dragons lasted much longer, that... makes some sense. Given how long Dragons are shown to be able to live, Bantu being the biggest showing of it, that means that the degradation was a small issue that was affecting them little by little. They didn't notice at first, but eventually the decline began to spread further and further.

I am pretty sure that Loptyr was never sealed away, but rather abandoned the war after realizing the war was already lost for him, so when he met bishop Galle, he figured out a way to terrorize humans using the blood pact through Galle. And he did so for a long time. In fact, Naga only learned of Loptyr's pact later on and went with other dragons to stop Loptyr. Now, this brings up the idea that maybe Duma and Mila actually participated in the Miracle of Darna, as Mila might have been the Divine Dragon that created the Blaggi bloodline, since the Valkyrie Staff brought the dead back to life, and Mila is hailed for doing the same thing. Also, Naga never intervened against Medeus. Naga was already dead, and had likely reincarnated as Nagi. However, with New Mystery of the Emblem, its confirmed that Nagi never appeared in Shadow Dragon canonically, so New Mystery was her first canon appearance. Furthermore, the two Falchions still bug me, but it would make the most sense, as its the only way to explain why Alm got himself a Falchion despite it not being that long since Shadow Dragon that Echoes takes place, so Rudolf somehow going to Archanea to get the Falchion, give it to Alm, only for afterwards for Gharnef to steal it to make very little sense.