Kiran_
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Posts posted by Kiran_
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4 hours ago, SageHarpuiaJDJ said:
Something I feel I should mention about why I'm Advance<Master. It's fairly simple: Advance classes come in at an earlier time. You get Advance Seals way before you get Master seals which puts them at an edge for me. Sure the Wyvern Lord is stronger is Rider, but Rider comes in super early when compared to Lord. Also, I don't really recall saying that Lord's requirements were bad; I said that Wyvern Lord is Limited to being a Master Class and Rider already does what Lord could do at an earlier time.
But shouldn't the list be based on final growths/etc, and not when they come in. By this logic, Noble/Commoner are the BEST classes, because they come in FIRST, and have dual access to both magic and physical weapons, which is great. You don't have to get any seals to get them. Sure Intermediate and Advance classes are stronger, but it comes in super early by comparison.
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This whole list hinges on the fact that it implies reaching Master Classes is ... difficult? I've never struggled to get my characters into Master Classes between level 30-33, which is when you can take the class exam anyways.
You don't need 100% pass rate. Master Seals are super easy/cheap to get, and you can just soft reset once a week if you don't pass if you want to keep them in inventory. But otherwise, just throw the lessons in the "goals" thing (like Riding or stuff) and by level 30 it's usually around B-B+ and if you focus on it in tutoring on top, it's easy to get too.
Also Wyvern Lord is far better than Rider. Reaching C is literally like 3 weeks of tutoring/goals. If that. Or just give them an equipped lance for a few battles.
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4 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:
So with Conrad being added as a GHB soon he is out of the running for Farfetched Heroes. So now it looks like, assuming we ignore Lif and characters with seasonal alts, we are getting Awakening Anna, Jill, Nils and Shinon unless we are getting another New Heroes based on Awakening, Tellius or Blazing Sword before then which is actually possible.
Though since it looks like we are getting a five units every banner now I wonder if they might do that for Farfetched as well. I kind of doubt it but if we did then we could see Awakening Anna, Jill, Severa, Nils, Shinon and Rath (and hey Awakening, Blazing Sword and Tellius would all coincidentally get two units each) with Anna, Jill, Nils and Shinon on the banner and one of Severa/Rath being the 3-4 star unit and the other being the GHB/TT freebie unit.
Personally I still expect it to be a three unit banner of Anna, Jill and Nils with Shinon being the freebie unit though I did hear an interesting theory on reddit that we might get all females instead for Farfetched since there are several females that are not in the game that scored higher than Conrad, Nils and the others in which case we would get Awakening Anna, Jill, Severa and Rinkah (Fates Anna would just barely miss it) but I think having all females for Farfetched would just cause backlash.
I really, really hope they add Nils and Severa. Dream come true.
I agree an all female Farfetched would just cause backlash, so I'm hoping that doesn't happen.
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37 minutes ago, redlight said:
Conrad's art got revealed. He's asserting dominance in his attack artwork. Drawn by Teita I think. Same face as Byleth and Arvis.
And he really has barrier lance. Fuck. Why couldn't they have given him the prf treatment similarly to Forsyth? Duma's Lance and other named weapons are just lying on the table from SoV
Got revealed where?
Barrier Lance is good if he has good Res and Spd, hopefully. I don't mind it as long as his stats are good.
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Oooh, Python! One of the last Echoes units I really want! I was hoping for a banner I wouldn't have to spend orbs on (so I could keep pulling for B!Ike, he's so close to +10), but Python I'm happy about.
I also sorta like the old, paper-y art style of these units, it's cool!
Also ... CONRAD?! YAY. Happy he's GHB and free, cause otherwise I would have died trying to pull for him AND Python. But now I have a Grail projectttt (if he has good art/stats) since Joshua is done and I've just been casually getting other units to +2/3/4 just to bulk up my exterior roster a bit.
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Literally just a unisex flying (dragon) magic class. That's all I want/need. I want to cast Thoron from atop my dragon, thanks. Preferably with Swordefaire, cause I love my swords. And maybe a male version of Gremory (why is it genderlocked again?).
Otherwise I think the other classes cover everything else. Maybe not traditionally, but you can technically make any class you want. We have a swordmaster final class (bonus points cause it has magic), and also a dismounted Paladin (or Dark Knight) makes a great infantry lance (plus magic), so positive. The only thing missing is the fact that there's no flying class that can use magic.
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Hmm, 15? No particular order, just who came to me.
1. Robin (M)
2. Edelgard
3. Lucina
4. Morgan (F)
5. Dimitri
6. Ephraim
7. Nils
8. Lyon
9. Owain/Inigo/Severa
(they're a trio, I can't give them their own numbers)10. Ewan
11.Eliwood
12. Heath
13. Soren
14. Gray
15. Kliff
Sooo ... a pretty good mix of games. Clearly have a soft spot for some baby mage boy characters. LOL.
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5 hours ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:
Well, 23rd of last month was Bi Visibility Day...
So, Blue Lions is still your first choice and not Black Eagles, but you are on Edel’s side? I mean, you have no choice but to fight El, but yeah.
-So, by the time part 1 ends, there are a select few who are biromantic or bisexual: Byleth, Edelgard, Dorothea, Linhardt, Mercedes, and Rhea.
•Byleth: Says that he/she is bi as though it were no big deal. All the major characters know he/she is bi. And everyone who knows is supportive. However, in part 1, Byleth is interested in neither romance or sex. There may or may not be some attraction later on in part 1, but nothing big.
•Edelgard: As secretive as she is, very few people know of her bisexuality. The two who do know are her father and Hubert, who are both supportive. The only other person who may know by the time part 1 ends is Dorothea. As said in her B support with Dorothea, she still does not have time to develop any romances and may not have that time in her future.
•Dorothea: Like Byleth, lots of people know, and she treats it like it’s no big deal. She has flirted and had dates with both men and women, but only a few women. Biromantic, pansexual.
•Linhardt: No one expects him to be bisexual. And he treats it like no big deal, like some others mentioned here. So far, only Caspar knows. And Byleth. While he is biromantic, he is asexual.
•Mercedes: She actually is not sure whether she is bisexual or pansexual, but she is biromantic. Only Annette knows, but she is supportive and won’t let that get in the way of their friendship. Of course, Mercedes is attracted to Annette, but she wants to know other options. Especially since romance is not a priority.
•Rhea: If people know that the Archbishop is bisexual, she’s not sure what would happen. Only Seteth knows, but she has plans to teach Flayn about sexuality.
Did I do well?
SpoilerHaha yeah. On my first run through I chose Blue Lions, but as we got to the reveal/etc, I realized I completely sided with Edelgard. But I absolutely love Dimitri/the cast so of course I was gonna fight Edel. But my head canon is that we still sorta ended up fulfilling her vision, even if we had to kill her because she went crazy trying to do it.
Also, love these, except Linhardt I sorta see as everyone expects him to be gay, and everyone is actually more surprised that he has attractions to women because of his demeanor. Haha.
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That after the war Dimitri and M!Byleth were inseparable and lovers, but history erased them into 'friends'. Hahah.
No I'm not bitter I couldn't marry Dimitri.That
SpoilerFlayn is alive because I spared her, but I still murdered Seteth and that she wanders the continent alone and heartbroken for the rest of her years.
Also that
Spoilerafter the war on the Blue Lion path, M!Byleth and Dimitri eventually reform the church by killing Rhea covertly and instead of abolishing nobility, build a system where crests are devalued and people gain status based on their talents, but leave the nobility to continue to govern the people by using their powers as protection rather than a status symbol of being 'better'.
Can you tell I agree with Edelgard's vision? -
I think one that stood out was Mercedes. I thought her voice was annoying and her design uninspired and I hate characters that worship the church, so I was surprised to really, really love her based on her supports and her interactions with the other characters. I recruited her on my other runs after Blue Lions because I literally couldn't stand to hurt her, she's such a gentle, kind soul.
Also Dimitri. I just thought he'd be boring based on that haircut and I really liked everyone else in his house, but when I actually started playing, his dorky, odd darkness really got me. I found myself so invested in him and he jumped to one of my favorite characters because of his depth and passion and violence.
I also think Hanneman and Manuela ended up being characters I really loved. I didn't necessarily use them, but I thoroughly enjoyed making sure they had supports with other characters because I enjoyed watching them!
Bernadetta also became a favorite. Shy, recluse characters aren't my thing, and I was worried she was going to get old quick, but she consistently made me laugh in her supports.
And Hubert. I just thought he was going to be annoying or boring, and he ended up being one of my favorite characters on BE's route. His devotion and cold nature resonated with me, and I just loved that he took no false punches. He told it like it was, and I just enjoyed him insulting characters so easily without any regard to emotions. "I don't do condolences". It was so well done because of course he wouldn't give a crap your dad just died and I appreciated that little touch.
Last but not least is Hilda. I loved her design, but her description made me roll my eyes. And wow. She was amazing. Not just gameplay wise, but she was so funny. Aside from Bernadetta, Hilda made me crack up in a lot of her supports. She was always true to herself and I loved that. I was so upset when I couldn't recruit her on the BE route and had to kill her. 😞
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7 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:
Not sure about the latter question (I'd just assume you learn it in Silver Snow), but for the former...
Sothis only has the one support. And as far as I know, all you need to do is get to the point in the game where you select the person you wish to marry and select the option that says "???" with a silhouette of Sothis next to it. According to people on GameFAQs, she's the default option for both genders, so I would assume she's your partner if you choose to support no one.
And I think you also need to have the ring from Jeralt in order to even be able to S-support with anyone.
She's not the default option. Sothis is an actual option on that screen that says ???. But underneath you can physically select "no-one" and choose to actually stay single! That's what I did on my BL run.
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Hmm, I really liked this game because the pairing felt a little more organic, and I sorta like the surprise at the end of who ended up together in ways I wouldn't expect. That said, I definitely have some couples I really like.
MexEdelgard. Hahah. I just ... adore Edelgard. Byleth is whatever, but I just agree with her methods/thoughts so much and I found myself totally in love with this pairing.
Sylvain x Dorothea (or Felix). I absolutely loved Sylvain and Dorothea, but I do have a soft spot for my first run when Sylvain and Felix ended up together. I can't see Felix with a woman, so if I saw him with anyone, it would be Sylvain. But I think for me, Sylvain and Dorothea just won my heart over.
Caspar x Lindhart. I just adore their dynamic. They're clearly very close, and I think they both bring out good parts in each other, and they're always seen together which warms my heart.
Claude x Hilda (or Petra). Claude and Hilda I was surprised to fall in love with, but something about their dynamic just felt so organic and right to me. But on the edges of my vision was Claude and Petra. They both love/worship nature/the earth over the Goddess and I loved how their supports built on each other. I felt he would work so well with either.
Hubert x Ferdinand. I saw a lot of fan art, but didn't understand until I got to their supports and O.M.G. Best haters to lovers I've seen, I was so blown away by how they transition and Ferdinand's blushing with Hubert in their support was soooo adorable. And I can just see Edelgard being sooo annoyed at the two fo them, but secretly happy.
Ashe x Ingrid (as friends). I really, really loved their friendship and I can just see them being close for many, many years to come and so I enjoyed this. Too bad I had to recruit Ashe on my 'canon' playthrough and leave Ingrid to die. =(
I think that's it. There's a lot of other people I like, but in terms of romance, I sorta just love the idea of a lot of them being friends and ending up with people a little bit better suited for them. But these specific couples just stood out to me as things I'd actually see happening.
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Loved it. Just because some things (the class system) are completely customizable doesn't mean everything should be that way. To me it makes more sense with how they made the game. A person SHOULD be able to wield every weapon, regardless of class. Hence the open weapon system makes sense. But if magic is inherent (like crests), it makes a lot of sense that people would naturally learn different magic skills.
SpoilerNot to mention blood could apparently pass on both magic and crests--hence the experiments on Lysithea and Edelgard.
It's why I liked that characters had strengths and weaknesses when it came to weapons (like in real-life). If any change, I would make it maybe where certain (advanced/master) classes maybe learn a spell upon mastery. Like Bishop learns Psychic (and for those characters who naturally learn Psychic - they just get a permanent boost to the number of times they can use it). But honestly I liked it the way it was, so no changes for me were necessary, except allowing all classes to wield magic, because it's a weird thing to limit considering base classes allowed everyone the ability to use magic.
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Honestly I spared Flayn and tried to kill Seteth, but apparently if you save her, you also save him. Sadly. =( I wanted her to live her life alone...
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18 hours ago, Beowls said:
Well its rational and good from her perspective. If we see it from her eyes, why should she view herself or her actions as evil?
Humans in her eyes are evil. We form judgments/beliefs based on our experiences and observing the experiences of others. Conceptually and theoretically not all humans think the same and act the same, but if every experience she has had or observed points to them being violent and dangerous should she not take an attitude of treating them as such until she is proven wrong? Morally you would say no, but in terms of self preservation why should she risk her life and those she cares about on a moral concept that humans are more than the product of their violent nature?
The point about Sothis being fallible and not omnipotent does not discount the point about her still being the best ruler in Rhea's eyes.
I do not agree that the system was broken. The system is unjust and unfair and perpetuates tyranny and oppression but it does not mean the system is broken in the sense it cannot persist for say another 1000 years. Countless emperors before Edelgard knew about the failings of the system and the lies it was built upon, but as long as they did their part in propping up the system it continued to exist. If your point is its inevitable someone like Edelgard would appear, I would counter that her new world order (best real life analogue is the Roman Imperial system) where power is concentrated in one individual is more likely to fall over than Rhea's Fedualism.
Nobody is arguing how she sees it? Hitler probably saw himself as rational and good. That doesn't make it actually rational and good, so what's your point?
Also, even logically I would say no to that, so?? She clearly had examples of humans being more than that (she trusted one as Seiros), but she chose to use the worst of humans to define all of them. That's just logically messed up. She took the "but I have one friend" approach.
Nobody's discounting what Rhea sees, so your entire post is odd, because it's not about how Rhea approached it and rather or not she was right in her own mind (of course she was). It's how others interpret those actions and reasons.
A system that is unjust and unfair and perpetuates tyranny and oppression is broken. A broken system can of course persist for many more years. But that doesn't make it less broken. Things that are wrong and broken can exist despite being both wrong and broken, that doesn't even make sense to say the system is all those things but somehow not broken. And it was inevitable that Edelgard would appear, but where did I say that her system was not also going to be broken for different reasons?
5 hours ago, LilyRose said:Also, Rhea created hollow people and tossed Sothis' heart into them to see if it would take. She basically created something from nothing and when Sothis failed to materialize in them they just lived out their lives and when they died, she tried again. Is this a good thing? Obviously not! She said that what she was doing was forbidden but it is very disingenuous to act as if she was conducting some kind of devastating human experimentation. She was not doing a TWSITD on these "creations". The only "human" that we know she did this on was Byleth who was dead.
Yes, Rhea rewrote the history but it had nothing to do with keeping humans under her control. It was to end the war and save what was left of her race. Yes, a thousand years later (!) Fodlan's society had turned increasingly toxic but that wasn’t Rhea’s intention nor was it her fault.
I know that Edelgard (because she's been brainwashed virtually since birth) believes that Rhea has been moving humans around on her own personal chessboard for a millennia but we as the game players know that is not true. She leads the Church, which is as Jeralt said, a ridiculously large religious organization but she had no direct power over the nobles and by the time the game starts even her ability to influence them was waning. Let's be real here, she couldn't even get them to agree to let their children live next door to commoners in her own dormitory but she was supposed to be able to tell them how to run their territories! Sure, she could tell them that Sothis would damn them or send her army to smite anyone who got too out of hand but how many times would that work before she would have faced a violent uprising herself. The Church has specific doctrine on how disappointed the Goddess is with humanity's greed and violence, the Church encourages equality and good behavior and the use of power wisely so what else was she supposed to do? Rhea recognizes that there are problems in Fodlan, but she doesn't believe she can do more than she already has to fix them and believes Sothis is the only one who can (& since Byleth becomes Sothis-like, she's right).
I think Rhea is an absolutely fascinating character because she is so supremely damaged and yet all of the pain and suffering that weighs on her is turned mostly inward which leads to some extremely questionable decisions but even at her worst, she’s never evil nor is she a villain. We know that she is ruthless and that any amount of violent provocation will be met with an extreme response, but we also know that she can be very selfless and kind and that she values peace and order above all else (and that's not always a good thing). And that is why parts of her s-support are so sad because she starts to blame herself even for things that are not her fault.
The flip side of that for me is Edelgard who is also a fascinating character and who is also supremely damaged, but she takes all of her pain and suffering and turns it outward with devastating effects for the entire continent. We know that she is extremely arrogant and values her own ideals above all else including the lives of innocent people and she never changes no matter what route you take in the game. She never acknowledges the failings in her plans or that there were other ways to achieve even better results and she never truly takes blame for what she has done or set in motion. She's a liar and manipulator on a scale even higher than Rhea at her worst and she never changes! The lack of change and self-doubt added to her fascism is why I do consider her a villain, even when playing her own route I kept thinking we're the baddies.
And Arianrhod was the pinnacle of my dislike for Edelgard. There are limits to cunningness and when you step over that line you have basically become worse than whatever it is that you are fighting against. In my mind that was the perfect opportunity for the Empire and Church to come together to fight the much larger evil and the fact that I couldn't just jump off the crazy train totally ruined it for me.
We don't know how she was creating these people. At all. We don't know if what she was doing was violent human experimentation to create these 'hollow shells', or somehow using some odd power of creationism. We simply don't know, so it's weird to simply dismiss it. The point stands, she was doing something wrong, all because she couldn't get over her grief.
Umm...it was revenge, first and foremost, she says so herself. And second to keep peace is to control humans. And of course it wasn't her intention, but it IS her fault, because she had numerous times to recorrect what was happening, but what happened was she started with one GIANT lie and did anything in her power to protect said lie, even if it meant letting the world fall into something that was clearly NOT peace. Her entire rewrite of history is exactly WHY Fodlan reached the place it was at, you can't honestly not see that.
Everything you just said makes me dislike Rhea more. Because if she's so willing to kill anyone who gets in her way, you'd think she'd have the power to schedule mass executions of the nobles who are too greedy. If she can execute the entire Western Church, I don't think it's a stretch to believe she could take care of greedy nobles. Like that's just oddly hypocritical that she can only deal with things involving her or her mother, but turn a blind eye to everything else. So no. Everything you said there was wrong, because she clearly did have the power and means necessary to make a change. She chose not too, because she even admitted herself was focused on HER goals over humanity. She wanted her mother back. Not TRULY for Sothis to rule again, but at the end of the day, she wanted to be held by her mother again. She wanted to hear her mother sing to her. At the end of it all, Rhea was just a child who lost her mother and never got over it. In that way, she's SUPER sympathetic and it's heartbreaking. But that doesn't absolve her of everything she did or the things she caused. And you can't write good intentions into her actions, because she herself admitted she got so wrapped up in her own goal that she let things fall apart. She clearly had the power to do something. To suggest she didn't is disingenuous.
You can't say fascism is bad in one breath and say it's okay for Rhea to be judge/jury/executioner in the next, because modern world standards don't apply.
At Rhea's worst she is most certainly a villain. In the same way that at Edelgard's worst she is also a villain. You can't for a single moment pretend that Rhea is suddenly not a villain (in some routes) just because you sympathize with her. She blames herself for things that are her fault. That's not sad, it's honesty. She needed to see her own mistakes. And I'm glad in that route she can see the mistakes she caused.
I'm sorry, where is Edelgard a liar and manipulator on a scale worse than someone who rewrote history? Like that invalidates almost everything you say, because that's not even remotely true. Edelgard is most certainly a liar and manipulator. But to then say suddenly that Rhea who manipulated history itself and kept up a lie for a 1000 years, is suddenly not on the same level? What?
Edelgard does express doubt. She does acknowledge her failings and does take the blame for what she's done. Did you just conveniently skip over things she said, or.....? Her entire supports pre-time skip with Hubert are knowing her path is going to be steeped in blood and being worried if it's the right path, but knowing it has to be done. Does it have to be done? Not really. Claude kinda shows there's other paths to reunifying Fodlan and getting things done than just a giant war, but we also see that to abolish the system, you do have to get rid of the Church and Rhea, which wouldn't be done without some bloodshed.
Edelgard is extremely arrogant. And she does value her ideals over a lot of things. But, the Church & Empire would never come together. Sure in your 'mind' it was the perfect opportunity, but that in no way makes sense to the story, so it seems odd that you'd suggest that was the moment she lost you, when that was the smartest decision she made in her conquest. I would have done the exact same thing and then some.
3 hours ago, Nihilem said:That is because I first wanted to have a list of charges against Rhea. Like in a real court the prosecuting attorney starts with what acusses the defandant is charged with. Otherwise I have the feeling we are just spinning circles with the same arguments over and over, going through wall of texts and quote wars until someone gets bored.
This isn't a real court, it's the internet. Instead of wasting so much time organizing a discussion, you could just respond? The discussion is going nowhere because you keep repeating yourself on things already stated.
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2 hours ago, Nihilem said:
I was just wondering if you agree that Edelgard and Rhea act in quite similiar ways why you love one and disgust the other. As you have written before two posts.
But back to topic I think Rheas Sins (whatever that means in the end) can be summarized to these list:
- Creation of Hosts for Sothis
- Executing Criminals without proper Court
- Lying (about history, the nature of Sothis, herself, ...)
- Keeping the Nobility in Power through Inaction and sacral authorisation
If you agree to the list we can discuss it step by step. Because most of the stuff I dont believe shes acting that evil, but lets see. Otherwise we just write wall of texts until noone knows which argument goes to which claim.
If you disagree please tell me what to add.
I like how you ask for quotes, then don't provide any in support of why you don't believe those 4 things aren't wrong?
Also, Rhea is the court, judge, jury and executioner, which is a problem in and of itself.
And while I agree Edelgard and Rhea act in similar ways, I don't recall Edelgard creating hosts because she was grieving over the loss of her siblings, lying about and rewriting history to keep humans under her control, or allowing the nobility to be the way they were. I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about the idea that while you can have two characters that act similarly, their circumstances and actual motives/actions can determine if they end up being a character you like or dislike.
You can love a character and see their flaws and hate a character and see their good points? I've already explained in subsequent posts why I like Edelgard over Rhea, and already explained that I understand they have a lot of similarities as well. But it's the differences that do set them apart and ultimately determine why I fell in love with Edelgard as a character and not Rhea.
2 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:Yeah... that's true...
That was a smart move... evil, but smart. Using the destruction of Arianrhod to make the Church looks evil, when in fact Evilgard is the true evil of the game.
What exactly was evil about it? It was just cunning and the smartest move to make. She didn't want to ally with them either, but it was a necessary thing to achieve her goals. Even Hubert explains how painful it was for her to ally with them, but she put the greater good before her own personal feelings. And how is Edelgard the 'true evil' of the game? The closest she gets is the BL path in which I'd agree she is the true evil of that route, but in the other routes, I really wouldn't call her evil. Dictatorial and cunning, sure. Willing to kill anyone who stands in her way, sure. But evil? By whose standards? That's like calling Dimitri evil when he went all bloodthirsty and boar-like and murdered everyone around him. He was misguided and letting his demons win, but I wouldn't call Dimitri evil just because he slaughtered everyone who was getting in his way for revenge. Haha.
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1 hour ago, Nihilem said:
Oh you are misinterpreting my intentions. I dont want to defend or forget anything, I want to learn. Thats why I asked for quotes. Because I have come to the conclusion that most discussion about this topic (or when discussing Edelgards action) are based on feelings and baseless speculation instead of whats actually going on in the game. So I would be happy when you tell me where i can find the evidence to support your claims. In return I will try to do so myself.
To this specific topic I know that she cloned people. "Experimenting" on people implies that the process causes heavy agony and pain (see support with Edelgard and Lysenthia who were really experimented on). Do we have any quote that something like that happened?
On the other side from the dialoge with Jeralt (unfortunately I dont remember the chater) we know that Byleths Mother was a nun at the Monastery. Thats makes it highly unlikely that she was tortured or had to endure painful experimentation as she would probably run away if that was the case. Also Jeralt (her husband) has never mentioned anything about that and would most likely never allow his son/daughter to be a teacher there if his/her mother would had to endure horrifing experimentation there.
So, If its only cloning I dont even know if it would be illegal in the country i currently life in. But for sure you dont get death penalty for doing it.
And you think that Edelgard - if we she were in the same position - wouldnt do exactly the same thing? No we actually know what she would do - she lets Hubert deal with it. We can clearly see that in her A Support with Hubert where he admits getting rid of assassins for her and she only requests to tell her that - never to stop doing it.
In the same Support it is also mentioned, that she as the emperor has the right to execute anyone (or at least anyone with official duties) if they refuse to follow order. No court mentioned. So it seems to me that human rights are not really a thing in fodlan and death penalties much more the norm then in our modern society. It is quite likely to assume that the Arch Bishop has similiar privileges as the emperor at least in Garreg Mach - where she is a de facto ruler of the city state. And if the refusal to follow orders is punished with execution the the (attempted) assassination of the public figure will not have a milder penalty. Therefore her actions, while surely barbaric from our perspective, dont seem to be that uncommon in fodlan.
What are you reffering to?
And Edelgard has done exactly the same thing. In Arianrhod we knew that she lied to put blame on the church which was completly innocent on this matter (MIssion Briefing cutscene after chapter 16) and that was never corrected. From the cutscenes after chapter 12 in any non BE-Route we also know that she blames the church to be the mastermind behind the splitting of the empire. Why we cannot proof that she was lying, as we have seen no evidence whatsoever in any of the routes supporting this claim I see this as imperial propaganda at well. But if you have anything that implies that they were guilty of doing this please let me know.
What exactly are you reffering to?
As I mentioned before I am happy to learn. Just please include quoted evidence to your claims, it is hard to discuss something on a basis of speculation.
Um ... you didn't provide any quotes for cloning or anything you said? Because Rhea states in the church route, she "Did the forbidden" by "creating a body" and then "burying a crest stone within it". I don't recall her talking about clones. She did this 12 times until Byleth's mother was created. I don't know where that says it's cloning, but if she went through 12 tries, I would classify that as an experiment. Also, I don't think it would be 'forbidden' if there was not something questionable about what she was doing. Experimentation isn't always 'violent' and 'painful'. Also there's such a thing as Stockholm syndrome, and we only hear the words from Rhea's mouth because WHY would she ever admit to doing actually violent things? This was all done in complete secret. Jeralt had NO idea the person he fell in love with was created. And Jeralt also mentioned in his diary, he "used to think the world of Rhea, but now she terrifies me". Why else would he be terrified if not him seeing her true nature.
How do you know she told her 'creations' that they were false? How do you know what she did? Nobody does. All we know is that she created false bodies, and experimented on trying to bring her mother back. We don't know the details, but that doesn't make it right just because it's not explicitly stated either way. There is such a thing as an unreliable narrator, aka: Rhea. So that's speculation on your part to suggest why Jeralt did or acted the way he did. And furthermore, all of it will always be in some form, speculation, because we can't trust anyone's words about themselves at face value. We can only read between the lines of what they say and look to their other actions and the things that people say around them.
Also, I don't think Edelgard would do something different, so I'm not sure how bringing her up helps your case? I think Edelgard and Rhea are very similar in a lot of ways, including the violence. The difference between the two is that their core motivations are different. One is entirely selfish and about her mother, and the other is about the greater good. Had Rhea truly, mostly cared about humans and bending the truth was all a way to 'help humanity', I wouldn't be so critical, but it was shown time and time again she didn't really care for humanity as much as she said she did.
In the same support you mentioned, Edelgard also recants because she was merely joking. "You know I would never do such a thing and that I pay no heed to the title you bear. It is your own presence and capabilities that I value so highly, Hubert. Titles are meaningless next to such things. Our families have no bearing on this matter...nor does the Empire itself." She admits that she would never do that, because it's about someone's abilities not their station, which is exactly the point. She's not trying to create a world where she's a violent dictator.
And on Rhea's actual S support with Byleth she says, "Though my intention was to keep the peace in Fódlan, I still propagated a false history and deceived my faithful followers. I also took advantage of my position as archbishop to further my own selfish goal of seeing my mother again. If my foolish actions had anything to do with the war..."
She had, at the start a good intention, but her false history and deceiving of her followers LED to something that wasn't peace and instead of correcting it, which she should have done if that was her continued intention, she let it continue happening. And her foolish actions had everything to do with why the war was started. Because her false history led to the corrupt nobles, enticed humans greed and arrogance into thinking they were 'blessed', and led to someone who thinks violence was the only answer (Edelgard) to rise to power to change things.
Before the time skip. If you betray Rhea and don't kill Edelgard at her orders, she calls you "another failure". Another failure of what exactly? Her experimentation on trying to bring her mother back. Because in the Verdant Wind route, she even admits she did "questionable things" to see her mother once more. If she just passively created dolls (think homunculus) that weren't getting hurt to bring back her mother, why would any of that be questionable?
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10 hours ago, Beowls said:
Evil or rational?
Humans in Rhea's eyes are violent animals and their actions speak for it.
They experimented on her species and used them as raw materials for weaponry and genetic engineering.
They performed an unprovoked extermination/genocide driven by the desire to gain power to combat some unconfirmed reason (either external threat or simply manipulated by TWSID).
From a perspective that all humans are capable of committing these acts and bear within them the desire to do so (fear of the other /greed for power) her actions make complete rational sense.
The specific beliefs are not detailed greatly but its noted Sothis is an arbiter of souls implying a concept of sin, meaning there are actions the church sanctions against. We are never able to read a bible/koran equivalent of commandments but its logical the religion would preach piety, tolerance, compassion and salvation/forgiveness for those that adhere to and follow the teachings of Seiros. These are not only good qualities that provide Rhea moral authority and legitimacy (taking in orphans - planned possibly) but they rein in some of the tendencies of humans (greed, lust, etc) which would have driven those that committed the Red Canyon Tragedy.
That is, the most logical pathway to ensure such a tragedy does not occur is as you put it to create a "lock hold" on all possible perpetrators (namely humanity) that inhabit the "wayward land - Rhea". The religious apparatus controls the thinking of Fodlan whilst the political structure of feudalism limits and controls the actions of Fodlan.
As to the human experimentation that you view with disdain, might i say we humans experiment on animals for a variety of reasons both farcical (cosmetics) and beneficial (medicines).We rationalize the harm we cause to them as either they are 'lesser' or in the case of medicine we do it for a greater cause (though only for benefit of humans) Its not a stretch to say Rhea thinks along similar lines, bringing back a divine being that can bend time and reality to her will would surely end all war and suffering, no?
As to the fault she bears for the subsequent war, one could argue she could have avoided it by simply killing Edelgard and replacing with a more pliant noble to perpetuate the system. A system that's lasted for 1000 years isn't going anywhere anytime soon if the feudal lords stay true to their devil's bargain with the church.
I think to Rhea it is rational. But I think overall it is wrong. Things can be both rational, evil and wrong. They can also be rational, evil and right. It's all a matter of perspective.
Humans in HER eyes. This is no longer a rational thought, it is simply a misguided prejudice. That's the equivalent of saying in a racist's eyes all BLANK race are animals. Which we've seen throughout history that people do and look what happens out of that. From a perspective that all BLANK race are meant to be servants because they are not capable of thought, that means slavery makes perfectly rational sense.
For specific beliefs, only RHEA says she's an arbiter of souls. This is how she exerted her control. Religion itself is a means of instilling fear and control on others. There is no concept of 'sin' aside from what Rhea herself creates, which is painfully obvious when it is revealed that really Sothis is—in lack of better terms—an alien. And those are her alien children (lol, this makes me giggle). Also funny, because Sothis, Rhea and the others also exhibit tendencies of humans. Arrogance. Hubris. Greed. Wrath.
I'm not sure why you think I'm okay with experimenting on animals, but .... okay? And also, Sothis has limits to her power as shown. And even when she WAS alive, clearly war and suffering where still very much a part of existence or the war wouldn't have happened in the first place.
But the system was broken. I don't think she bears ALL responsibility for the war, but I think it was only a matter of time before the system broke. In this case, the person who broke the system also happened to believe blood and war was the only solution (which is arguably both rational and evil as well).
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1 hour ago, Nihilem said:
Might given me a list of all the sins Rhea had commited that made her deserved cruel death (for her and her entire race)? From before the time skip I mean. Preferable with quotes from the game so I can also look them up. Because all I came up with is:
- Lying - notourisly to hide things that could hurt her, which allowed some bad people to get quite powerful positions.
- Not actively going to continent wide war to stop the Nobles from abusing their power. She has opposed them verbally however.
- Executing people that tried to kill her
- beeing a really scary lizard
Because I have the feeling most highly exagerating the evil that she has done to excuse the continent wide war with uncountable death, becoming orphans or losing children, friends, lovers....
If only there would be a person who is known to care for the weakest amoung the humans, like the orphans for example ...... oh wait I know one ....
Did you forget she experimented on humans to revive her mother or .... are we just pretending she didn't do that? Are we ignoring that when Seteth called her out for her experiments, and she just dismissed it?
Are we ignoring that she executed people without even a second thought to what was really going on. She goes into blind rages when someone challenges her, instead of dealing with the TWSITD (aka: the entire Western Church nonsense), even though she knew who they were having battled them a long time ago.
Or how pre time-skip she's like, "I'm sending the students so they can see how foolish it would be to turn their blades against the Church". The church that is false and only there as an excuse for her to try to revive her mother? Someone who tries to rip your heart out and calls you a failed experiment because you simply don't agree with her? A religion that's entirely made up?
Or how she entirely rewrote history, hiding the existence of so many things and rewriting over the origins of crest and relics which is exactly HOW humans got to such a bad place in the first place. And all of this bloodshed and suffering for what? To revive her mother? Like of COURSE she's taking in orphans and those who have fallen victim to the system. It's honestly the LEAST she could do.
And are we ignoring her violent streak when people "oppose the Goddess" aka, a false deity she created.
It's almost as if you're being purposefully ignorant of the things Rhea did. There's no exaggeration necessary. Is Rhea like ... some huge evil? No, I don't think so and she definitely has good things she's done. She's very gray in a lot of aspects, which I appreciate. The fact that I DO hate her, I think is a testament to how powerful and well-written she is as a character. But I personally find the things she did revolting, so there's no exaggerating necessary for me. She treats you like a host body, and she entirely acted out of selfish, immature desires. Most people experience grief and move on. Not create a lock hold over an entire race. Only in her route, plus S supporting her does she realize how awful she is, because otherwise she's been doing this for an UNTOLD amount of time.
The continent wide war was a direct result of Rhea. There's no denying it. Was it the best SOLUTION? That is another topic that I think can easily be argued either way. But at the end of the day, Rhea rewriting history, being so focused on reviving her mother and not dealing with TWSITD and letting humans create a veryyyy corrupt noble system around crests when's he was supposed to be 'guiding humans', all led to the eventual war that Edelgard started.
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Tough question. I think Crimson Flower is my favorite, simply because I agree with Edelgard's ideals and it's the route that felt like what I would do.
But, I have such a soft spot for the Blue Lions, because I love Dimitri and the entire cast is so well developed. So this would be second, purely because of that.
Golden Deer I think has the potential to be 1st, but the cast of characters didn't really resonate with me aside from Claude and Hilda. Claude's curiosity and desire to learn more is what kept me on the route, but honestly the Church worship was so overbearing in that route, because Byleth kept asking about Rhea the entire timeskip portion, and it was super annoying, because Claude wasn't even religious and I wanted a route that fought the true villains/exposed the church/didn't do a violent bloodshed route like Edelgard.
The Church route I just hate.
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I'm actually shocked people can't love both Edelgard and Dimitri. Because I simply adore both characters.
But on Edelgard herself, I actually fell in love with her. And the crazy part was, is that I played Crimson Flower last. I played Azure Moon first, and after watching support after support in the Blue Lions route where they talk about how royally screwed their lives are because of the Crests (and just knowing Rhea was super creepy), I found myself wanting to JOIN Edelgard when she renounced the crests and the nobility and Rhea. This is without having been spoiled/knowing anything about the plot aside from my guesses.
And when Dimitri and Edelgard met before the final battle, I agreed with everything Edelgard said. I love Dimitri because he's a precious, misguided cinnamon roll who is super idealistic in a way, with a dark side (and why can't I gay marry him?). But I loved Edelgard because she was a dictator. If people are too weak to rise up in a world without the Goddess or the crests to look up to, they don't deserve to be in that world. I so agree with this, because if people need something so desperately to cling to, that they can't stand up on their own two feet, than they are weak. Edelgard has a super strong willpower and in this, she can't abide by, or justify the weakness in others, because she herself doesn't feel those things. Is it right? Not necessarily. But do I agree with her? Yes.
And now, finalllllly playing Crimson Flower, my love for Edelgard grows and grows. To me, she's not a villain at all. She's the hero. Or at least ... the hero I've always wanted. Someone willing to walk through blood to get to a better world. And I love that even though she's misguided and lied to and not even aware of everything, she still trudges forward, because that's life. It's realistic. And ironically, she's still right in her own way, despite the lies she's been fed.
My only critique is that she's not curious enough and tries so hard to keep her emotions in check, that sometimes she makes emotional decisions (not joining Claude for instance), but honestly it's less of a critique and more of a character flaw that I find super believable. Do I think there's a world where Claude and Edelgard could join forces and take down TWSITD, while fighting against Rhea? Yes. But do I believe Dimitri would ever join that world? No. And that's what I love.
But yeah, my thoughts on Edelgard is that she's my favorite character, because she's the dictator. If I had the power and means to do what she did, I would 98% do the same thing, except recruit Claude. Haha. Also it's the only route you honestly fight the Church and Rhea (who disgusts me), and so it's my favorite simply because Edelgard is the only one who actually sees Rhea for the awful human she is and challenges her. And yes I understand Rhea and Edelgard are similar in their own ways, but they react fundamentally different and the way Edelgard reacts is closer to what I would do. Plus I hate on the other routes that Rhea is simply 'absolved' of her sins of completely derailing humanity because her stupid mother died and she couldn't cope with grief. Like I might even say the Golden Deer would be my favorite simply IF they had held Rhea accountable for all the stuff she's done, but they never did, which frustrated me.
And Edelgard is the only one who does, which I think is important (and I took great relish in betraying the person who created me to be a host for her mother).
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Ooh, love this. This heavily influenced who I chose to recruit/not recruit after my first playthorugh. This is based on actual story and not exactly what I did.
Black Eagles:
Lysithea (cause of her support with Edelgard)
Sylvain (he hates Crests so much)
Felix (his hatred of nobility, plus his love/hate with Dimitri)
Ashe - less likely, but I do think it's easy to see a way where the Lonato thing really turned him against the Church in general. And when you recruit him to the Empire side, he even mentions the entire Lonato thing made him unable to trust the church again.Golden Deer:
Petra (foreigner, being held hostage in the Empire, also doesn't believe in the Goddess, neither does Claude)
Dorothea (hates fighting/bloodshed, I can see her wanted the more peaceful solution Claude attempted)Blue Lions:
Lorenz - I just feel his ideals of nobility and whatever mesh well with the Kingdom because they're all such true believers.
Ferdinand - Same thing of Lorenz. They're both obsessed with their nobility in a way that Claude isn't and in a way that fits the Blue Lions.
Marianne - So devoted to the Goddess and what not.Honestly I wish there were more defections in your own team. Like honestly I don't feel like Lorenz would have stayed in Golden Deer. And I don't think Ferdinand/Petra was gonna stay in Black Eagles. And in Blue Lions, I really think both Sylvain and Felix could have reasonable defected to the Empire, based on their supports.
I have Mercedes/Marianne/Annette in my Black Eagles run and they definitely feel out of place but I just couldn't stomach killing them, tbh. Ingrid I left in the Blue Lions because there is NO way she would have left. I can at least head cannon that Marianne joins the Black Eagles to get rid of her crest and that Mercedes while believing in the Goddess, doesn't necessarily see the Church as the best way (plus she definitely has some things against Crests as well). Annette I can't justify, but I needed her peppy/cheery personality, and I don't regret it. Haha.
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39 minutes ago, Seafarer said:
Thales outright says "You must survive merely because there is still a role I require you to fulfill". He contradicts himself in front of the Flame Emperor later, saying keeping the secrets of their bodies was his only aim, then tells Kronya "I'm afraid you must remain, Kronya. There is something I need you to do." I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that he saved her for Zahras, and lied about it to Edelgard to prevent her tipping Byleth off, seeing as there's obviously not complete trust between them.
I think it was probably both. He wanted to keep the secret of their bodies AND had a role for her to fulfill. So it was more of a not fully revealing his full plans rather than him outright lying to Edelgard, though I'm sure perhaps not revealing the full plan was either to prevent tipping Byleth off or perhaps just him keeping his cards close to his chest in a sense.
Though in terms of this theory, I do love the idea that they moved with more of a purpose than what is explicitly stated. I can definitely see their main goal being to kill Byleth purely because they hate Sothis, but also on a second part, trying to in some way derail their friendship and keeping them apart.
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1 hour ago, wissenschaft said:
Heck, even Petra whats to level in Brigand first even if you plan to make her an assassin. Death blow is THAT awesome.
I agree. Heck, I gave everyone that wasn't a magic user Death Blow (and the magic users got Fiendish Blow). Ashe with Hit+20/Vantage/Death Blow and he was pretty good in my BL playthrough. I don't think he was bad as a Bow Knight (he was my only one), but I'd definitely note that Cyril replaced him as my main bow unit on maps. I still always used Ashe (cinnamon roll), but if I needed someone on the front lines it was Cyril.
I actually didn't use a dancer in my BL playthrough and I was more than fine, but Dorothea is making a pretty fantastic dancer in my GD playthrough, but I can definitely see why Marianne is a good dancer. But I don't think your team *needs* to consist of a dancer if you don't want, it's definitely not make or break in this game.
About Rhea...
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted
It's only implied from Lonato's rebellion when Rhea states part of the reason of sending the students is for them to see "how foolish it is to turn their swords against the church", which is clearly a ploy to get everyone to fear the church (aka: her), and continue her rule by said fear. Also they do execute the 'heretics' from the Western Church without even diving into WHY they did it. Before they're executed the traitors say someone else was behind it and instead of questioning it further, Rhea quickly says they're lying and kills them, which we found out later they weren't lying at all. So yes, those people did question her authority and yes they were violently suppressed, and clearly it's not the first time it's happened, as evidenced by Catherine saying she'll continue to kill for Rhea, meaning she's done it plenty of times in the past.