Juigi Kario

The simplicity isn't causing any problems. The problem is the law of diminishing being in effect. Doesn't help that 3+HKO-friendly (with or without healers accounted for) environments means that every point of DEF basically amounts to 3+ extra points of HPs. Lunatic is 2HKO-rich, but THAT makes Speed broken, and it still took the enemies getting obscene stats, which of course does not include boosted Physical or Magic Defense because IS would be INSANE to do that.

That's correct. Why Intelligent System doesn't just nerf or--better yet--revamp the stats is beyond me. At least then they wouldn't have to worry about giving characters weaknesses that either fail miserably to phaze the general invincibility they get, or are so big that the characters end up unusable.

Whoa. So let me get this straight: the past part can affect your growth rate too? I see the formula: 5% * HP correction * Time frame correction. Oh look. Physical AND Magic Defense have their Time frame correction reduced by 1 in that formula. I wonder what Intelligent Systems is thinking trying to keep those two stats from hitting any high values.

We know about the Lunatic enemies 2HKOing thing, thank you very much. The point is how they are even that way to begin with. They ultimately prove that Speed is THE broken stat as it is. Wouldn't stop Physical Defense from taking the silver consolation prize.

Do you even need to dodge over 9000 attacks when you can already generally hit the enemy at least 6 times per round for decent (not anything less than 5) damage per hit, or just plain rape them with magic abuse? And unless the enemy's hit rate is a flat 0, you can still get hit anyway, however unlikely it is at low percentages. Anyway, Super FE3 Player's point is that Physical Defense caused the hiked up offense ability. Even without immunity to damage, the damage reduction can add up in a hurry. If 1HKOing becomes impossible, every point of Physical Defense is worth at least TWO HPs. That is 40 to 60 HPs assuming caps. Might as well have four lines of health if the opponent doesn't use a mage sufficiently. And this, of course, is just 2HKOs. Let it become 3HKOs, perhaps 4HKOs, or just throw in decent healing and it gets RIDICULOUS! Speed is definitely far more disgusting, though, simply because of the double-attacking. But we can hardly let Physical Defense off the hook in any FE where Might in general isn't very high. Try hacking Physical Defense into the difficulty-boosted growths--no, they aren't in them, I can be sure of that--and see if that hacked version of Lunatic doesn't make vanilla Lunatic look like a joke. I guarantee you that I will win that bet and you will not have fun at all.

That's the thing, though. Paladin has the second highest Physical Defense base/cap difference out of all the reclass options, first place going to Warrior. Even Bishop, the 4th place class (3rd place being Dragon Knight) has only 19. (Sorceror has the same freaking caps as Sages. Don't ask me why, I can't begin to think of a good answer for that.) And, of course, after the first playthrough, somebody can just Class Swap to Armor Knight and gain Physical Defense that way. Heck, if class growths aren't changed by much and the Paladin wants some functioning Speed, being a part time Sniper works to gain some Speed without losing too much Physical Defense. Though like you say, it shouldn't affect the main gameplay. But it does get bothersome now if My Unit is any indication. Meanwhile, while Oswin and the broken duo are inherently broken, we can agree that Physical Defense could use a revamp. It even says something when LUNATIC doesn't boost the enemy's Physical Defense. Or Magic Defense but that would be to avoid making the mages useless. Yep, even Lunatic has standards.

I just looked at my Stat FAQ for SD. Oddly enough, Paladins still capped Physical Defense at 30 and needed 22 personal points to cap. Why exactly? And why I or anybody else for that matter didn't notice this earlier to begin with is beyond me. Yeah, my FAQ even made use of the personal points concept, albeit without calling it such, but it takes me until after somebody points the issue's existence in the next game to catch such a glaring balance issue? What? Just...what? Paladins are supposed to be hit-hard-and-fast units. They shouldn't be allowed to last too long. Though to be fair, in Shadow Dragon, gaining Physical Defense reliably with anybody but the broken duo would be a pain. In New Mystery, you know something is wrong when a MAGE setup My Unit can reliably gain good Physical Defense in a matter of level ups.

Some people consider Speed broken in general anyway. Evasion itself is inherently luck-based. That wouldn't be the problem. The problem is the double-attacking concept. You do need to deal damage, but if you can, having only 4 points more than the opponent has its definite share of value. But yeah, I can see we're on the same page about DEF in general, Big Klingy.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. About the Paladin 30 DEF to prevent forge Poleax abuse thing: the reason why Knight Killers and whatnot exist is to be able to deal with Social Knight abuse, because in the original, they got fairly high Physical Defense to deal with their Movement Power, their main standing point, being potentially rendered useless in close combat or in thick terrain. But it couldn't be so godly that they'd just end up obsoleting Armor Knights, who already suffer in terrain as well. Still, the defense was rather high, and by the time things actually get their damage input going, HP is already getting a move-on too. Enter Knight Killers, capable of tearing through Social Knights' HP. No longer would Social Knights level maps once any mages were neutralized, because they had to deal with weapons capable of killing them fast to keep them from passing. Now they would have to either attack smart or die dumb. Of course, this brings up another thing to point out: Armor Knights are supposed to sponge attacks. Sure a game should encourage good attacking, but providing too much attacking ends up creating a defensive metagame, as everybody will be seeking to cause the opponent to make the first mistake, which ultimately becomes the critical one, because the player who capitalizes on it will relentlessly hammer their opponent and leave them in a virtually hopeless situation, and that's if the opponent is even lucky to survive the mistake. Defensive ability, on the other hand, can be used to throw off attacks and allow yourself to attack with reduced if any fear. If anything, Hammers should be with a weakness compared to Poleaxes, contrary to what I thought earlier. Granted, they do at least exist to deter Armor campout, but beyond that, they shouldn't help to make the Armor Knights useless at their job. As for the DEF issue, if Might isn't high enough, DEF can have a surprising impact due to law of diminishing. Not as big as Speed, but there is a reason why Marty in FE5 has 3 stats at 0 AND a lack of skills. Yep, overcompensating weakness. Let me answer each of the questions: Would you trade a 30 DEF cap for a 30 SKL cap if the other had to be 20? NO! I'd rather not rely on criticals, and I can generally get good hit rates. Would you trade a 30 DEF cap for a 30 STR cap if the other had to be 20? Depends. Probably not if I can be sure of my weapon management. Would you trade a 30 LCK cap for a 30 anything cap if the other had to be 20? Most likely. Would you trade a 30 anything cap for a 30 SPD cap if the other had to be 20? For anything but DEF or maybe STR, definitely. In the case of the other two, I'd have to give it some thought.

Wouldn't you mean Chapter 10? Still, 27 ATK and 14 Fight Speed at that stage of the g-he better not have a Javelin.

Meta Knight closes distance at what cost? He can still be punished when he closes the distance and Pit still moves at a reasonable speed. And Meta Knight's near-lagless moves are still close range. And still punishable. Really? Last I checked, Tornado and Shuttle Loop could both be shielded off. If I used Pit against Meta Knight, I'd be more concerned about the drill attack if I tried using arrows. Even then, that can still be punished. No it doesn't. Except I'll punish him right after the FIRST tornado. Oh, goody, he's walking or simply not moving. Can't use a quick attack on that. Yeah right. Besides which, if he's right next to me in a decent position, I'll just move away since he has other options to begin withs. Bad cooldown. Me punish. He has no projectiles. I'll just figure out whatever he can do and punish. Maybe because of predictability. Other than that, no. Punishable methods. At least against Fox's blaster you can charge at Fox. Yeah right. So he doesn't have a forward smash, up smash, glide attack, or back air attack. Oh wait. And if you're going to say attack power is a weakness of his, okay then, Grit's +1 range, which is more or less equal in the AW environment to Pit's projectile advantages in the Brawl environment, is perfectly balanced by the 80% firepower that direct fire units have. Bzzt. Wrong. If by chance you believe Pit's attack power is a suitable weakness for what he has got--and we can assume the 4 jumps and a glide with decent weight and speed is equivalent to Grit's indirect firepower boost--then you believe by extension that Grit's 80% firepower counteracts ALL of his advantages and he can be fought effectively on Bean Island. Against the neutral air? How? Only a FEW characters even have multiple midair jumps, and the two who aren't lightweights who will hit the blast lines most likely after only one or two needs to use midair jumps are heavyweights who are slow; one of them has only one extra midair jump and a glide, the other has bad individual ones. At worst for him, Pit shouldn't have a problem preventing somebody from outspacing him to any major degree. He is not. Meta Knight also still has short range attacks. And need I remind you that you need to get a person off the stage before you can try to gimp them? Pit is going to let you hit him? Oh, you're talking about the Up B, which you shouldn't be abusing to no end. Pit shouldn't even need it frequently, and he can fly under the stage if he does. Stop farting BS out of your ***. His cooldown is decent. If it isn't, then Ness's PSI Magnet is HORRIBLE for its main intended purpose. Just tell me how Ness fails to defend himself from a sudden dash attack eliminating the free health from the arrows or the point of getting it, if not both, because it sure ain't a sign of a balanced game when you're saying that the PSI Magnet is only credible at all as part of an advanced technique. Okay, your logic makes no sense anymore. You move right into Lucas's Up Smash, a heavily telegraphed attack, and yet you somehow dodge Pit's arrows. WTF? Close range is close range. And you want this "mid range", try Marth. Play. Defense. That is all. Oh, he has a disjointed hitbox? So where is it? It sure isn't Snake's in any case. Pit can still defend himself. Those 4 jumps? He can use them to maneuver. Pit has 3 midair jumps and a glide. He's not the least bit easy to gimp.

Got me. The gains could have to do with the weapon's own required weapon rank for all I know. Oh, there is no S weapon rank in this game. The royal weapons are all A rank.

5 midair jumps, a glide, and all 4 B options allowing for further recovery don't help if you hit a blast line before you get to use any of it. They do allow Meta Knight to easily recover. Meta Knight's attacks may be fast, but they're still close range. Difficult to punish? Maybe, but certainly not impossible. As for Pit, he is defensive in general. If you do airdodge, he'll just punish the attempt to exploit the blind spot. And his recovery is still very good WITHOUT the Up B (which by the way allows for further maneuverability, losing it to a single hit is no big deal when, oh, right, you can go under the stage), what with the 3 midair jumps or the glide. And he has decent weight, remember. It's actually a big deal in his case because that means he never hits the blast lines directly for a while unless he gets gimped. Again, he's defensive in general, any Pit worth their weight will see that from a mile away. Even if you do mind game him, you'd still have to avoid being shot at all, because recovering from the stun takes too long.

Why do people say Meta Knight is broken and worth banning, but Pit's arrow spam is easy to thwart? That doesn't make sense. Let's look at Meta Knight. He's a dark swordsman whose character indicates that he's supposed to kick your butt if you aren't careful. Of course, he has no projectiles, so he has to approach you. His tornado can be shielded off, and his other approaches can be punished anyway, and his Down Smash, while instantaneous, has decent at best range so it's not going to nail somebody rolling out of the way of a possible A combo. Then there's the fact that Meta Knight has bad weight, so he dies fast once he's pushed around. But Pit......what? Okay, so let's assume I'm not using a character like Meta Knight who can use an attack like the drill. How do you dodge the arrows so that you don't get locked in, and moreover, how do you do that without an approach that can be reacted to and countered easily? Oh, jump because the arrows have a 45 degree blind spot? How many characters even cover diagonal attacks well with projectiles, let alone without sacrificing horizontal projectile cover or plain having slow projectiles? Even Ness and Samus altogether have never done that despite having been the original SSB's poster projectile users. And anyway, how am I going to get high enough before I get hit? Pit can direct his arrows and they go ridiculously fast. Airdodge? Ah, but it's quite likely I'm coming OUT OF jumping, not into it, when he gets me far enough away to start shooting. Yeah, you can't even kill him fast enough before he slaps you away, he has decent weight and 4 jumps. Yeah, Pit himself has no glaring weaknesses while we're on the subject--but of course if not for the arrows he wouldn't have any glaring strengths either. And the problem gets particularly bad when you're using a heavyweight like ROB, because that weight means nothing against being brought up to a high percentage where a clean hit can finish you off. Can somebody tell me a weakness in Pit's arrows that doesn't apply to a lot of people's projectiles, because I sure can't think of one, and if there indeed isn't, I gotta agree with Grit from Advance Wars: