Barren

The only thing about Falcon Knight Bernie is that you really need the blessing gambit in order for her to safely reach 1 HP and achieve max damage vengeance. At least with a guard adjutant she can survive follow up attacks which fliers can't equip. Though I guess the best alternative is for her to have a devil weapon (probably sword since she needs to get at least a D+ rank in them and she has a bane in swords). Defiant Avoid though at least gives her some longevity pending on her avoid.

Yea that's what I figured. So she's really better as a Paladin or Bow Knight pending on what your team needs. Either killing bosses in one hit or freezing them in place

I'm considering a vengeance bernadetta myself on my Black Eagles/Church of Seiros run when I try it on maddening. I saw Mekkah's video on Bernie and he actually detailed on how to make the vengeance strategy work and even shared his set up using vantage and battalion wrath. Something of which I was considering for some other units on the squad as well. I was also experimenting around with Holy Knight Bernie on normal mode just to see how it would work. Rescue is nice on her with high move but seems impractical to bring on a serious team

Would having both Bernie and Claude be a good idea to have on a GD maddening team? Because I know both of them learn Encloser at rank A bows. So maybe Barbarossa Claude and Bow Knight Bernie both rocking hit +20 and maybe accuracy ring using encloser could help make maddening easier somehow. Freezing two enemies in place seems to be better than one. I didn't consider Valkyrie Bernadetta until now. While it seems more possible on NG+, Uncanny Blow plus Hit +20 looks to be pretty much a surefire way to land high accurate hits from attacks and combat arts.

For Constance, I would recommend having her mastering Warlock before going into Dark Flier since she will be consistently be using black magic. Bowbreaker on a Dark Flier is a sure way to have her fly in more safely. Otherwise I think everything else looks pretty good. Having black magic range +1 is also a nice to have as well. Maybe magic +2 too if you want to combine it with fiendish blow for more raw damage potential. It can also be a decent idea to have felix go from fighter, brigand, war monk, grappler then warmaster so you can get death blow, brawl avoid +20 and then the occasionally useful tomebreaker and then quick riposte. Strength +2 and Death Blow is also a nice combo for that +8 attack in addition to having that 20 avoid too. I know it's a little overkill but it's a good filler ability especially when being engaged on enemy phase.

Would battalion desperation combo well with darting blow? Or is that simply redundant? I know that regular vantage combines with battalion wrath because they are both enemy phase skills and a number of characters can do that. Dimitri included and he also gets battalion vantage which obviously makes him the best enemy phase counter unit in the game. Give him counterattack and there you go

I'm planning on doing that combo for Dimitri on my eventual maddening run. It is too bad that that the battalion variations have such niches. At least Dimitri is the best candidate for it. And to an extent anyone else that has battalion wrath along with regular vantage like Bernie, Petra and even Dedue. I'm also a bit disappointed that battalion desperation isn't really worth using either as much as regular desperation is. I mean I guess you can make it work but then how useful is it really?

That's unfortunate. Though thanks for testing it out Though with that said, what does battalion vantage work well with?

Quick Riposte I've been tempted to bring to a Male Byleth Brawling build because of how much it makes player phase so good. As far as battalion vantage + quick riposte being a thing, I have not tested it out yet but I am now curious to find out.

Good point about Retribution actually. That would mean that I can pick a different ability in it's stead. Wrath or Defiant Crit seems to be best when paired with Battalion Vantage and/or regular vantage anyways. I was thinking on being able to combine it with a killer weapon or even wo dao so I can score high crits. But yea good to note, thanks

I have another question: Is Battalion Vantage good on any build? Someone might have already answered it but I was reading up about battalion vantage and it works when a battalion's endurance is around 1/3 of it's health. I know also it acts like regular vantage but it's a safer condition to be going for. I know someone else said that battalion desperation isn't that good so I might probably choose to avoid that. What I am thinking in that case is I could go Assassin with Sword and Bow Prowess at level 5, Close Counter in case I happen to be wielding a bow, Death Blow so I can deal really good damage with something like Windsweep and Curved Shot, and maybe battalion vantage if it works the way it should or maybe just go for sword/bow crit + 10 just to clean up enemies. Plus Assassin is easier to build towards since I only really need to invest a little into axes to get brigand and keep focusing on sword and bow. Not sure if having healing focus as a combat art is worth it or am I better off using something like swap or reposition. Falcon Knight seems like a sure bet also so something similar using a bow as an option, maybe Killer Bow if I want that extra crit chance in addition to the hit + 30 I get from curved shot. Alert Stance and Darting Blow is also obvious as well. And of course similar abilities/combat arts as mentioned above. If I am going Falcon Knight maybe I could go for Tempest Lance/Knightkneeler in case I need to attack up close against someone with swordbreaker pending on the matchup. I know that Warmaster/Grappler as Male Byleth is another strong option, it's just a matter of if I want 20 crit or attack three times with fierce iron fist Those are the three class options for Byleth that I am strongly considering to use in Maddening after much pondering

I get the impression that the devs made the holy knight to be an offensive white mage as well as a heal and run support. The idea makes sense but with nosferatu, seraphim, aura and abraxas being the only spells boosted by white tomefaire makes it difficult for it to work considering their limited uses. Granted Lysithea has 3 out of the 4 spells listed gremory is already a better option for her. And for Marianne, I know she's built for it but there are better options for her, like dancer, gremory, dark flier, valkyrie or even trickster if you want her to use swords. Of course if you already have a physic healer as well as a silence user she could in theory try swordmaster to help her strength and speed growths but she'll struggle to inflict any serious damage unless you're RNG blessed. I would also bring up Mortal Savant as it allows her to be a hybrid attacker but the -10% speed drop though does hinder her growth. I know she's not the fastest off the bat but it is really worth it?

Here's something I think might be interesting as well. Please let me know if I should change something about it or not Kinshi Knight (Leonie) Crusader (Marianne)

I initially was thinking to have a decent dodge tank that can heal as well as fight physically because having recover can be a big deal and even if I run out of nosferatu, just equipping a heal tome (at least according to Chaz when he discussed his "pitfall" build") can still add evasion. Speed +2 sounds a lot more attainable then weight -3 though of course if I go weight -3 and death blow then that means I can master brigand while passing the armored kngith exam and get a nice defense boost. Jeralt's Mercernaries were the only ones I thought of off the top of my head and I couldn't think of a good one. Edmund troops I just remembered gives you Hit +40 when maxed out and has good range too. My guess is that in gerenal the EO class would have a hard time contributing in maddening because while it can do magic and physical it doesn't excel particularly in either one because it's not fast enough. Still, it's good to get this kind of feedback so I can adjust my plans.

For me whenever I try to make a team I try to not overdo it on fliers myself because of how flying battalions function. Still, having at least 3 or 4 fliers are still good to have on a team. I sometimes opt to go for alert stance anyways if their personal ability can be augmented because of it. i.e Dimitri's post time skip ability or Ferdinand's confidence. So I think that if you're looking for an evasion set like I am, then I think AS+ compliments those ideas really well. Sword Avoid +20 deserves a mention. Brigid Hunters battalion granting a good amount of avoid as well as Aegir Astral Knights too

Ha! I see what you did there. Yea those kind of weapons can be inaccurate.

So I'm guessing for Caspar you must have given him Axe Prowess Level 5, Lancebreaker, Vantage, Death Blow, Wrath with a Critical/Accuracy Ring? Because that is the easiest approach for him if not Grappler or War Master for him. I was also considering Caspar being a Grappler because he would get Fierce Iron Fist. In that case, his progression would probably be fighter, brigand, war monk, grappler. The War Monk is there for the Brawl Avoid +20 and I guess pending on his stats he gets a nice boost to his Res which he is severely lacking in.

I'll give my two cents on the polls here. I went with DF Flayn and Dancer Marianne because Flayn can already become a pegasus knight to get darting blow and then unlock her budding talent in reason magic so she can level up her black magic better. I still would train her white magic on the wide because rescue and fortify are potent spells to have even if without the 2x of white magic you would get from bishop and gremory. Plus Dark Flier really wants Bowbreaker since you'll always be using magic. She can also use the Caduceus Staff for longer range so you can run Reason Level 5, Fiendish Blow, Darting Blow, Bowbreaker, Alert Stance +. Of course you would need a flying battalion in order for her to gain any additional stat buffs or other utility but this is totally doable for her. Marianne as a dancer I've used on my GD playthrough and she was excellent. Sword Avoid and her hero's relic gives her good damage potential against monsters as well as dodge support too. Her boon in riding really helps with movement +1 and you can still give her something like a forged levin sword for example. Though if you're going to go all the way with her as a dancer and have her heal, dance when needed, you can probably go for something like sword prowess level 5, sword avoid +20, special dance, movement +1, and maybe even magic +2 because at least physic will have some more healing power. For accessories there is healing staff if you her healing to be a bit better or march ring if want her to have 8 move (can be a bit much but hey at least she can get in range a lot better). Felix can do about any physical class you want him to because his growths support the idea. Assassin is easier for him to obtain though because sword and bow are both of this boons and CA's like Sunder which can be nice for higher crit and Finesse Blade while strong he needs to have a higher dex stat in order for the damage output to be better and since Assassin gives 20% this will help him out. Heavy Draw is strong but lacks range like Curved Shot though the difference in damage is noticeable. Kind of like switching from a pistol to a shotgun. And having close counter should felix start using bows can prevent him from being a sitting duck. Though in fairness Sniper Felix is also very enticing because of Hunter's Volley and his strength growth will jump up from 55% - 60% making him one of the hardest hitting snipers in the game. Bernie and Shamir are the other notable sniper candidates too of course. So if were to go Assassin, he would want something like Sword Prowess Level 5, Bow Prowess Level 5, Close Counter, Death Blow, and perhaps Axebreaker, Hit +20, or maybe even Strength +2 to go really well with Death Blow. Sniper would probably want something like Bow Prowess Level 5, Hit +20, Close Counter, Dexterity +4 (maybe) and Weight -3 (maybe) if you care about him having Aegis Shield. Aegis Shield does help out his shaky defense and let's him fire away with Hunter's Volley. So IMO either one is good. And of course, I think that raising 10 units should be enough and you can have someone you don't train too much be your dancer and then maybe some other recruit you can use to rally spam. Ignatz is another okay choice for rally support unit as speed and dex can be helpful. Rally strength as well but you would have to raise his authority all the way to rank S which is no fun. If not then the Ashen Wolves should be more than enough for you.

Yea Annette is really easy to pick up if you spend a battle and just have her spam rally strength on you. She gets the most rallies out of anyone else. Perseverance (Rally Strength), then she gets Rally Res, Rally Speed, then finally Rally Movement. And 3 out of the 4 rallies you'll want to use a lot. As for rally bot ideas, I've been thinking that Annette can be either a Dark Flier with Bowbreaker and a rally if you can fit one (you could probably fit both rally speed + movement if you're willing to invest hard into authority). Otherwise I'd just stick with Alert Stance+ Valkyrie/Dark Knight also works because you can combine rallies with movement +1. Of course objectively Dark Knight offers better stat growths than Valkyrie and has 7 move as opposed to Valkyrie having 6. But Valkyrie has black magic range +1. So that's the trade of I suppose. Then there is Wyvern Lord with Bolt Axe and Crusher along with Fiendish Blow + Axefaire which allows her to be a pseudo malig knight basically since we don't have that class this time around. However the -5% in magic might be a slight problem depending on your perspective.

And that's why I like to experiment with such things on normal mode. I even once did Dark Flier Ingrid before transitioning to Falcon Knight because I was curious to see how well Transmute would work for a FK. It turned out rather well when hit with magic but it depends if you have said transmute user bait in the enemy mages and warlocks. I was even considering Ingrid to be a Dark Flier because I had her master Mage, Pegasus Knight, Warlock then Dark Flier afterwards because of how Bowbreaker in conjunction with being a flier using magic would be a great idea. It is a great idea though her spell list is Blizzard, Thoron and Fimbulvetr. It can use white magic too most notably physic and seraphim. With a spell list like that being backed by Black Tomefaire, It's serviceable enough I think although I would say that anyone with a higher magic stat and probably a better reason magic pool that isn't dark could probably pull off dark flier better. Regardless of who you chose as a Dark Flier, I like to throw in Reason Prowess Level 5, Fiendish Blow, Bowbreaker, Alert Stance+ and maybe Black Magic Range +1 to actually fend off enemy Snipers

I figured Lancebreaker was a worthy option because on how axes work in this game. Even when getting Hit +20 from Axe Prowess Level 5, Falcon Knights are a pain to land a hit on and having that extra hit really helps. You can even combine that with the accuracy ring to have even better hit. Weight -3 should be easy for Edelgard to obtain even when not going for a heavy armor build. Movement +1 is a great ability regardless also. It's what I always slap on when I'm on a riding class because of canto. It's pretty hard to combine it with flying (not counting NG+). I mean Ingrid could in theory pull it off but that seems more possible on normal mode than on maddening. Plus 8 move is still plenty great

Dark Knight Byleth I suppose would pump out the damage output with stuff like bolgnone and ragnarok. And losing 5% speed isn't the worst trade. Plus 5% strength and 10% magic is kind of nice. 7 base move and canto. You can even work to get movement +1 which I think works beautifully with canto. Fiendish Blow works nicely as well. So would it look something like Sword Prowess Level 5, Reason Level 5, Fiendish Blow, Black Magic Range +1, Movement +1? Reason being is that I recall the Rapture Heaven combat art is magic (could be wrong), and having sword prowess at least gives byleth some reason to hold onto their sword when they wish to go physical and having extra range and mobility for the reason spells are usually safe to go for

I've always felt that way with Edelgard's Emperor Class too. Though to be fair at least 5 move for an armored unit isn't terrible. And if you wanted to give her the march ring and have someone use stride you could still make it work. But yea Wyvern Lord all the way for her. I also find it interesting that you can combine resistance +2 with her personal ability post time skip to effectively give her resistance +6 if you choose to wait (she gets Res +4 if you wait). So would that be a thing for Wyvern Lord Edelgard since WL's achilles heel (if you could call it that) would be that WL still takes considerable damage from Magic. So imagine Edelgard as a Wyvern Lord with Axe Prowess, Death Blow, Darting Blow, Resistance +2, Alert Stance + with an accuracy ring since I've also read that her dexterity growth could be a bit of an issue going forward. If resistance +2 isn't really worth the extra protection then something like Lancebreaker or Axe Crit +10 would be fine substitutions.

I always soft reset for greats because of more experience and the sauna also helps out a lot. It's what help me reached swordmaster on my normal playthrough faster and I can imagine that it will help achieve a flier class for Byleth a lot quicker as well. In fact, as female Byleth, I can get Sylvain just by talking to him so that's another advantage I can think of. In the case of Black Eagles, having two units with swift strikes is more rewarding than one. In both Blue Lions and Golden Deer I would have to work to get Heavy Armor at Rank C to get Ferdinand if I want the same thing. Though I am trying him out on BL as a swordmaster with sword avoid +20 (more details on the next thread I plan to start). Plus getting Linhardt's support to rank B (assuming BL or GD) is easy enough as long as you bring him on missions and give him gifts and such. And Lorenz you can always wait until post-time skip (I know you can get him in BE if you do this, not sure about BL though). So yea, aside from recruiting Linhardt and maybe Sylvain (if you're male) would be the only explanation to train Byleth in reason. I don't bother with Byleth's reason magic even if it is serviceable. Byleth having White Magic Avoid +20 gives them a niche but as you guys have said, it's not worth using on Maddening due to how limited it is. Still, it was a fun build to try on Normal Mode. So I think that the overall best and easiest options for Byleth to get into as on Maddening that should be viable if not optimal would be Falcon Knight (assuming female), War Master (assuming Male), Swordmaster or Assassin The Combat Arts I plan on using for Byleth regardless on what I end up picking (other than War Master) would most likely be Windsweep, Curved Shot and maybe Bane of Monsters since they have good qualities to them.

I too have been hesitant about bringing in a mortal svanat for any team even outside of normal because I am sure that the -10% speed would be a problem in the long run because while having 6 move and sword + black tomefaire is nice, that speed penalty would be a deal breaker knowing that it's a hybrid sword class that can dish out the damage but can't take it and it's slower as a non riding class. At least Swordmaster and Assassin are considerable end game classes though I would say at least with Assassin you get 6 move and stealth which are two of the most important assets to have. I was actually considering Assassin Byleth at first when I was told that EO isn't the best way to go. But As @LegendOfLoog pointed out, being EO jacks up your experience given with authority allowing you to have access to stronger battalions quicker so at least there is that. Having Windsweep and Curved Shot would be ideal if I were to go Assassin. (though I can accomplish the same thing as Falcon Knight or Wyvern Lord). Assassin is easier for Byleth to go, but Falcon Knight/Wyvern Lord seems to be the more rewarding options. I would have also considered Swordmaster but 5 move maybe an issue. But that's why we have DLC.