LJ_Reflet

Honestly, I'll bring it up time and time again but -- I really hope they ditch gender-locked classes again as it was in Fates. One of the characters in the trailer seemed to be a female unit using Brawling, which is a good sign, but I seriously hope male units can become Pegasus Knights as well. Judging by the way the characters were shown in the trailer, I'm not sure how reclassing would go for this game or if reclassing will be present at all as it was in past games. If there is reclassing, I feel like it'll be like Awakening where each unit is given a set of 3 or so classes and that's all they can have for the game. I'm not expecting it to be like 3H's completely open reclassing system at all, though lol. I wasn't too much of a fan of allowing all classes to use all weapons (though it was cool to some degree, like bow-Pegasi), and I want to say that classes will return to being weapon-locked, but axe and sword wielding Pegasus Knights were present in the trailer. I highly doubt there'll be separate Pegasus classes for each weapon type, but I'm thinking these may or may not be enemy-exclusive classes or there'll just be a "Great Knight" equivalent for Pegasi lol (unlikely). However, only Pegasi and Cavaliers(?) were shown to have multiple weapons (axe and lance Paladins were present). My stance on this is--I'd rather the series go back to weapon-locks so each class retains their weapon niche.

I personally don't mind the weapon triangle for the most part, cause it really encourages you to use different classes on different units. I mean, on the downside, I can't have a team of all Falcon Knights like I could have in 3H cause of how extremely inefficient it would be, but yeah at least I have more incentive to have each unit in a different class. I do try to acknowledge the weapon triangle for the most part, though. Having a WTD does make defeating enemies kind of a slog, so I try to go for at least neutral. I def agree with all this though--especially Tomes beating Gauntlets. Majority of the units who have a preference for brawling have really bad res, so I get so worried throwing them in a crowd of mages. It makes for meeting the S-rank damage taken threshold a huge pain LOL. So, it just makes sense mechanically for tomes to have advantage over gauntlets. The only thing is, I do feel like mage movesets could be a bit faster. They feel sluggish using their normal attacks and spells aren't spammable due to their cooldowns.

They've all been pretty much said, but I just want to add in my thoughts: Kinshi Knight or any flying bow class -- I love flying classes, I like bow classes, and having 2-in-one was a really cool idea imo Malig Knight -- Malig Knight was kind of a missed opportunity in Three Houses, since units like Edelgard and Annette could have made really good use of a magic/axe class, and the class being a flier would be a bonus Gold Knight -- Gold Knight again was kind of a missed opportunity, but moreso in Three Hopes. Three Hopes pushed having a master tier, and Gold Knight would have been a great physically-oriented option for Cavalier units. Seraph Knight -- Same as above but for Falcon Knight. Pegasus Knight has by far the weirdest progression out of any class in 3H/3Hopes because it lacks an advanced tier, so having the class go from Pegasus>Falcon>Seraph would have just been a much smoother progression. Griffon Rider -- Griffon Rider has kind of a sad reputation, I mean it was a very below-average performing class in Awakening and never got a chance to shine after that. I feel like it needs a second chance (and a Griffon even appears on the Blue Lions insignia ?) Unisex Pegasus classes -- I've mentioned time and time again about how much disdain I have for the gender-lock and I'm tired of debating about it, but I just want male Pegasus Knights back 💀

I definitely agree with both points above--Fates has been one of my favorite games in the series, and the class system is unarguably my favorite. The lack of a prominent gender-lock (barring DLC and amiibo classes) plays the biggest part in why I like the class system so much, but other than that, I really enjoyed how the game encouraged supports between characters for obtain new reclass options. The only major flaw I found was that the game didn't account for characters obtaining duplicate classes if they support another character with the same class (ie. Even though Benny already has Fighter, if he A+'s Keaton, he still gets Fighter instead of an alternate). It's pretty complex the way the game handles it, cause Laslow gets Sky Knight from Selena instead of Mercenary again, but there are several other instances where certain characters get duplicates. But back to infantry lance classes--yeah, I do wish there were more options for that. Spear Master is probably my 2nd favorite class in Fates (behind Sky Knight/Falcon Knight), but it was probably the last time we saw an infantry lance class that wasn't armored or lord-exclusive. But out of all the classes I wish came back, it's definitely Kinshi Knight--or any flying bow class for that matter. I kinda wish Three Hopes took the game as an opportunity to expand the class system and introduce new classes or even bring back older abandoned classes instead of staying completely true to the original system in 3H. I don't blame KT for staying loyal, but at the same time, class trees ended up quite awkward and out of place. I actually didn't mind enemies having access to pair-up bonuses and attack/guard stance. In Awakening, because enemies lacked access to pair-up, the player has a blatant advantage to the enemy, whereas in Fates it was even and allowed for more strategic thinking, like having to think about when the enemy ends up filling their dual gauge or if the enemy ends up in attack stance. You know, ironically, according to dataminers and the modding community, the Hero class does actually exist in the game files--and it's complete with a moveset, sprite, model, and everything. The moveset is the same as the Mercenary moveset, except it cannot charge strong attacks like Myrm/Merc can. There's also some speculations that Holst was supposed to be a Hero because his outfit has similarities to the generic Hero outfit.

See, this makes sense. Class progression would feel a lot smoother if the tiers looked like this. It's a lot more reminiscent of Echoes/Gaiden class trees and, to some degree, Awakening and Fates. The only changes I'd personally make is give Dark Knight and Holy Knight to the Mage class tree, and have Cavalier branch into both Paladin and Great Knight. Yeah, the main problem was that very few of 3H's master classes were direct promotions of classes in previous tiers, but 3Hopes kind of forced them to be so. The only clear upgrades in 3H would be Falcon Knight from Pegasus Knight, Wyvern Lord from Wyvern Rider, and Bow Knight from Sniper (as it was in Echoes). War Master and Gremory were hybrids of previous related classes (actually, in fact, "master" classes were called "hybrid" in the Japanese version of the game). I haven't played Radiant Dawn or Path of Radiance, but I am familiar with the fact they have 3rd tier classes. If 3Hopes was deadset on having master tier classes, it would have been a great opportunity to bring back classes like Whisper, Seraph Knight, and Gold Knight as those would make for much less awkward trees. Seraph Knight especially, since Pegasus Knights don't have a proper advanced class, so they could have gone Pegasus>Falcon>Seraph.

I mean when you look at Fighter, combo strings are linked to the weapon, not the class since Fighter can utilize 3 different weapons and therefore can use 3 different sets of combo strings depending on the equipped weapon. Promoting to Great Knight from Paladin means they could have worked with the Paladin moveset for a lances, and hey, they could have recycled Xander's moveset for swords if they gave Great Knights swords as well. Staying in Paladin as opposed to continuing with a promotion to a lance-Great Knight would be kind of lacking, as--if they don't promote--they would be missing out in gaining new skills and bumping up their weapon ranks.

Wyvern classes are usually really strong, but I found them to be underwhelming in Awakening because of their low speed and unimpressive skills. For the best class in the game, I find it hard to say because the mechanics in each game are vastly different from one another, like how Archers are one of the most broken classes in Echoes, but are less than ideal in Awakening. Even Lord classes and Player classes can range from broken to mediocre (like I found Enlightened One to be kinda ehh). That being said, I do agree with the above that Cavalier classes are usually good to great in each game, like I can't really think of a game where they're necessarily considered "bad." Can't say they've ever been broken, but they've definitely never been a bad class.

I mean, Great Knight was a promotion from Cavalier in Awakening, Fates, and Sacred Stones. So imo, it wouldn't not make sense for it to be related to the whole Cavalier line in 3H/3Hopes. That being said, I did state that Great Knight could have been a promotion from both Paladin and Fortress Knight. I apologize, I think I improperly worded my original post. What I was trying to convey was, Great Knight complements Paladin more than Holy Knight or Dark Knight does (but still fits in with Fortress Knight), and Great Knight could have been a branched promotion from both Paladin and Fortress Knight. I do agree with this, however. I was pretty upset seeing female units getting completely locked out of a whole weapon type (making the enemy mages on female-unit only missions kind of annoying), so War Monk/Cleric could have been an easy solution to give female units access to gauntlets since they decided to keep the gender-lock for whatever reason. War Master for sure should have been a promotion from Warrior as well as Grappler. I did find it strange that Caspar's preferred class ended up being Wyvern Lord when he was obviously geared to be a War Master in 3H, but since they made him lean towards axes more, I guess Wyvern Lord made sense for him in 3Hopes' class system.

Does anyone else feel as if some class trees progress quite awkwardly? I think the most awkward class trees are the Soldier-Cavalier class line and the whole Mage class line. For Soldier-Cavalier, the 2 final classes they can promote to are classes that were originally perceived to be magically-oriented (Dark Knight, Holy Knight), and it ends up making units like Leonie (who originally had no affinity for any type of magic) get Holy Knight as their "preferred" class. But strangely enough, Leonie can use her unique outfit in Bow Knight ... and her outfit literally includes bow quivers LOL. I personally feel as if Great Knight would have been a more fitting promotion from Paladin, since Great Knight was always a promotion from Cavalier and could have echoed (no pun intended) the Cavalier/Paladin/Gold Knight line in Gaiden/Echoes. For Mage classes, the classes are hit pretty bad by the gender-lock since Dark Mage is male-only and Gremory is female-only, and you'll awkwardly have units like Linhardt with a preference for Dark Bishop despite never learning dark magic in 3H. Plus, Dark Knight could have easily been a promotion for either reason-based mage class, since Dark Knight was always a promotion from Mage in previous games, so it wouldn't not make sense. I also kind of feel like they could have utilized branched promotions more, as well as giving classes access to more than 1 weapon type, especially the master classes. Fighter can equip 3 different weapon types, so I'm not sure why they didn't give multiple-weapon access to master classes like War Master which should have had axes, and Dark Knight and Holy Knight which should have had tome access. It was kinda upsetting for me personally cause Elise and Leo were mounted tome units in the original FEW, so they could have reused their animations as a base. IMO, I feel like classes trees should have looked like this: Soldier > Cavalier > Paladin > Great Knight + Dark Knight (cause Sylvain and Lorenz lol) Great Knight would be branched from both Paladin and Fortress Knight Probably could get access to Axes, Lances, and Swords like the OG Great Knight lol Monk > Mage > Warlock > Dark Knight + Gremory Monk > Priest > Bishop > Holy Knight + Gremory Dark Knight and Holy Knight get Tome access Fighter > Brigand > Warrior > War Master War Master gets access to both Axes and Gauntlets

Hey guys ! I know that Three Hopes has barely been out 2 weeks, but I managed to create a gender-lock removal mod for the game so you can have your male Pegasus Knights and female Brawlers ! Not much to say about this mod--but basically all male units get access to Pegasus Knight/Falcon Knight and Gremory, and all female units get access to Dark Mage/Dark Bishop and the Brawler line. I even managed to give each character their own learned skill list for each added class ! The only bug in this mod is that the sprite on the class change menu and orders map doesn't work properly and shows up blank. I'm working on trying to fix this, but it's unlikely as Three Houses had a very similar problem. Lastly, all units will just use their default outfit in each class as I didn't assign any assets to the added classes. A friend and I did some testing with the mod and everything should be working fine. If you wanna see it in action, you can check out this video I made showcasing units in each class (minus male Gremory cause I haven't reached that part in the game yet). With all things said and done, here's a link to the download ! I even included the list of new skills each units learn in the download under the "Skill Notes" folder. DOWNLOAD: Three Hopes Gender-lock Removal (Special thanks to mcnuggy for helping playtest the mod !) ~*~*~ Screenshots

That's fair, and I can definitely see having a single gauntlet class being less than efficient for female units. My biggest gripe with the lack of female gauntlet classes though is that the game has female-units only missions, and for those missions you won't have a counter for mages. And when I did the 1st Golden Wildfire female unit-only mission, a monster with a gauntlet barrier popped up on the map and my only way to get past that last HP bar was by straight force LOL. So having that gauntlet class for those kinda missions would be really helpful, despite only having a few. This is a very specific situation, so I can see as a whole, if War Cleric is the sole female-gauntlet class, it would be sub-optimal.

Actually, there’s class data found in the internal files for Dark Flier, War Monk/Cleric, and Valkyrie. So there’s some potential that they’ll come back for DLC. The internal names for the classes aren’t actually “War Monk” but they’re flagged as mage, flier, and cavalry so they’re presumed to be those classes. Can’t say for sure what their weapons are yet tho, but I’m kind of on the fence for if War Monk/Cleric should be an axe class. I totally understand the Annette situation, but if War Cleric has axes, then it means female units would have 0 access to any gauntlet class at all past Fighter. My speculation is that if these classes do come back, they’ll just be direct promotions from 1st tier classes rather than being linked to a specific class tree.

Yeah, this is honestly one of my biggest gripes with the game (but honestly the gender-lock in general is a huge gripe of mine lmao). And to pour salt on the wound, the game has female-unit-only missions, so you have no counters for mages and no way to break through a monster's gauntlet shield for said missions. As much as I would love for a gender-lock removal DLC patch to be a thing, it's probably unlikely. However, according to dataminers, a model of male Byleth on a Pegasus was found in the game's files. It's most likely a dummy model, but it still gives a glimmer of hope. Anyway, going back to the main topic -- I'd love to see some DLC characters, new or old. It'd be cool to see old characters come back as veterans, like some of the characters that didn't get their shot in the original FE Warriors.

That's fair, I think that's worth noting when it comes to making the choice between Sonya and Deen, however I definitely feel like Shadow Mir is making the map seem significantly more difficult than it is in reality. I also believe the reward is worth considering as well. Deen is a competent unit and one of the better Act 3 recruits (since the others are Jesse and Est whose bases are a little ... unusable) even though he is redundant. This is a personal experience, but I recruited Sonya for one playthrough and found no uses for her, but I found much more usefulness in Deen in the playthrough where I recruited him instead. Ironically enough, I found Alm's route much easier than Celica's in my personal experiences. This is honestly a really good explanation of her map lol. All the enemies are witches, and Sonya is slightly harder to deal with cause she counters with Excalibur. The witches typically have low defense and HP so they're relatively easy to take out, but Leon typically needs to be kept clear cause the witches are likely to double him (if he's absent, then your Dread Fighters are the most important fighters of the map). Sonya's Excalibur can be scary, but she's slow so anyone can double her. I personally found the Dead Man's Mire map much more difficult than Sonya's (albeit, you have no choice but to do this map), so I wouldn't say Sonya's map itself is big enough an obstacle to steer one away from recruiting Deen if they would prefer him as a unit. It is definitely more of a challenge than Deen's map, I'll give it that, but nothing as hard as what Shadow Mir is making it out to be.

In my most recent playthrough of Echoes, on the map where you fight Jedah with the Dracoshield, I managed to clear out all the enemies by around turn 5-ish, leaving only Jedah. So, I decided to take my chances on a crit kill with Celica and Ragnarok + support bonuses from everyone in the party and get the Dracoshield. It was about a 40-ish crit chance, but I was like "screw it." and I got a game over LOL. Something else that was similar on Birthright with the map with Iago in the castle: Once again, I cleared out the whole map leaving only Iago and I had my Sky Knight Corrin with a Killer Lance (via Battle Points) ready to crit kill Iago. So I landed a crit, thinking I finally cleared the map--but it wasn't enough to kill Iago (Pegasus str as why), then Iago triggered Vengeance and I had to restart the map all over again my GOD.

What I meant was, there's a fairly high chance your Myrmidons will be Dread Fighters by the time they fight Deen, not by the time the desert maps begin. @ bolded: It's a little difficult to compare Deen and Saber's movement because ... they have the same movement/are in the same class. You're comparing Dread Fighter with Myrmidon and Mercenary when Dread Fighter comes from Myrmidon and Mercenary. If you keep using Saber, he's gonna end up in Dread Fighter regardless. It's quite obvious that a promoted version of the same class is superior to its predecessor, so you can't really say and Mercenary are necessarily "not good." If Deen was a Dread Fighter upon recruitment, sure I guess, but he's a Myrmidon. On top of that, as I've said right above, Deen and Saber are in the same class line--both Saber and Deen share whatever benefits and flaws that are rooted in their class line. Mae and Boey are great units, yes, I can definitely attest to that---but they suffer from a much higher movement penalty than Saber. They have more range, sure, but Thunder and Sagittae (aka 3 range spells) are heavy spells and if you're resorting to using either to relieve them of their reduced movement, the best they can do is heavy chip. I find it hard to see that Saber in the long-term hurts efficiency when you're pretty much allowed to deploy all units available and Saber's useful from the get-go. @ Leon: This is comparing apples to oranges. Leon is a good unit, but he plays a completely different role from Saber. Leon's performance shouldn't take away anything from Saber since they're completely different units. Lastly, like don't get me wrong--Deen is a great unit and I prefer to recruit him over Sonya, but just cause Deen is good doesn't automatically make Saber bad. If we're picking at the worst Mercenary in Celica's party, it's most definitely Jesse. Tbh tho, Deen is objectively the better unit compared to Sonya so I'd rather deal with Sonya's map to get Deen lmao. You gotta get one anyways, so you might as well get the better one.

While I do agree that Deen is an amazing unit, I can’t agree with Saber being a bad unit. I find them pretty on par with each other in regards to their performance, but Saber has a little bit of an upper hand since he joins much earlier. I don’t find his lack of Fire a problem at all — having swords is just fine. He doubles at base, and he can finish enemies off on the frontlines while Mae and Boey can take away chunks of enemy HP from afar. He doesn’t necessarily need “a lot more experience to get going,” since, well, he literally joins in the beginning to get all the experience he needs. To be 100% honest, Deen is the one that may require more experience since he joins as a Myrmidon when Kamui and Saber are probably already Dread Fighters (but as I said, I find Deen to be a great unit regardless). Dread Fighters don’t suffer as much of a move penalty as other units, so they can—with some effort—make their way through the desert better than your Mages and, hell, even Celica. Plus, they’re the only units that can tank magic, so you’re probably gonna force them up front anyways. Several of the problems you bring up about Saber, Deen carries as well due to the virtue of both being in the same exact class. Like, you mentioned Saber lacks range, but Deen does as well to be quite honest lol. And the last point about his lower speed: The beauty of class bases in Echoes is that stats get bumped up upon promotion if that stat was behind, so Saber’s low speed growth isn’t much of a problem since his natural class line patches all that up.

I personally agree with Mycen being bad, but Forsyth and Zeke are fine. I’d have to go with Nomah being the worst since he has nothing to set him apart from the other mages, and he has terrible growths and a really late join time. To top it off, he essentially has the same exact spell list as Boey who’s lightyears better. Zeke has the decency to come fully promoted with fairly good bases, but he’s outclassed by Mathilda. Regardless, Clive is an overall below average unit despite his early join time, and Zeke is the perfect filler for him if Clive ended up RNG-screwed. This is kind of a hot take on my end, but I don’t think Forsyth is a bad unit—he’s just in a bad class. Taking things into perspective, he has better bases than Python who joins at the same time (and great growths at that), but Python usually gets good treatment because he’s an Archer. Even still, Python notably requires some babying to get him going—albeit the payoff is much more worth it for Python than Forsyth since Archers are really good overall in Echoes. Forsyth needs resources (aka a Pitchfork), grinding, and backtracking for him to actually shine (which to be 100% honest I’ve never actually done for him) but I think he’s safe from being called the worst imo. And tbh, in my most recent playthrough, Forsyth ended up better than Clive even without grinding.

Hey guys, so I finally was able to complete this mod and I have updated the original post with all the new details and link to the download and I'd really appreciate it if you guys could check it out ! WRT to adding more move to Knights/Barons -- I tried really hard to see if this was possible, but I couldn't find anything on Paragon to change class movement. The only things on Paragon were movement type and class flags (ie. class type as in infantry, cavalry, and flying), but nothing affected their base move ㅠㅠ I'll probably keep doing research on this, and if I find anything, I can send it to you privately.

Sure ! Ngl, I was hoping at least one of the mercs would become a Pegasus Knight haha. I'll go ahead and add that on the list ! (Btw, thanks for the input regarding the Cleric spell lists !)

I'm so glad you said this, because I was kind of dying to try Dread Fighter Clair LOL. I'll go ahead and put it on the list !

Of course, I probably wouldn't have accepted any other class for Faye ngl HAHA. I went ahead and added this to the list tho !

Sure ! I’ll go ahead and add that in to the list !

LOL Can't complain, I wouldn't be mad at this HAHA. And should I pitchfork him or just wait until he can loop ? Haha.

Sounds great, I'll go ahead and put him under "Pitchfork 1" ! Thanks for the input !