AstraSage
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Posts posted by AstraSage
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And you guys are pushing too hard on the negative.
The Ignis suggestion was just a light comment on how the Fire motif of the Skill got more focus (to the point of overshadowing any trace of the Blossom one) in the transition from Awakening to Fates...
It really doesn't need to happen, but if it does I think it wouldn't hurt the Grandmaster's niches that much considering that the Class would still keep three other unique skills of its own: out of which, I find Rally Spectrum to be way more iconic of Robin than Ignis.
Sure, I agree Roy would need to start with some Magic to get any Bonus Damage, but let me state that to ask me to discard the possibility simply for the sake of sticking to "FE-only historical accuracy" (ignoring things like the small pokes Ike and Marth received to their Smash Selves in the [Adjective] Blade skills) is also akin to asking me to only expect for Roy to get generic stand-in skills to deal with the fact he came from a game with no Skill System or a lazy retread of the Mercenary Tree skills.
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Lets be honest, with how much popularity FE has been having recently they would be crazy to not make a FE amiibo not compatible with it, especially since money is involved.
So it is almost safe to assume it will include content for Fates, and therefore it should include a neat class, neat skills, neat stats and the sweet sealed sword with fire animation.
I think its class will focus on Skill too so I also was thinking it would have Skill Drain, the thing i am kinda worried is that if it will come with a mastery skill(aka astra,aether,etc.) to use with.
Well chances are that, given his "Sword on Fire" gimmick, if Amiibo Roy's Hypothetical Personal Class were to get a Proc Skill it'd probably share Ignis with Robin's Grandmaster...
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What does Zero get from A+ with Leo and Odin?
The fact Zero shares the option to reach A+ with Leo or Odin is more so they can get Outlaw from him than for him to get anything new from them... Buddy Seal Reclassing plays quite well with the one-sided nature of the A+ rank.
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The only thing I can say that hasn't been mentioned is that the only reasons I can see want to give out a Class to the Avatar's Spouse as a Faction Parallel would be if you really like that Tree as a Secondary despite not getting anything and either A) you want Female Kanna to inherit all of her Mother's Class Trees (Which, in the case of Azura it's basically giving Kanna the same Class Set as Shigure's) or B) you're okay with Male Kanna and his Father getting the Faction Parallel, but you want more to have said Father's Class spread all over the Second Generation through both of his children (And of course that one falls flat in the cases of Lutz, Midoriko, Foleo, Shinonome, the Shapeshifter Girls and specially Deere and Mitama).
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Ah, I thought they didn't pass their -Prince/Princess class down to kids. Thank you.
Now you know they will always pass it to any Non-Kanna Child.
In fact, the only way the Avatar's Secondary Class Tree can be distributed through the Second Generation is when anyone that has S/A+-ranked Kanna uses the right Seal.
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Before I said anything, Carter deserves a round of applause: You can't believe what she managed to pull off (Poor Mitama) to get enough data to define patterns.
Now, there's two things to reports:
The first is that in the few cases of Class Overlaps among the Second Generation the Marriage/Buddy Seal Reclassing doesn't actually use the Target's Class Set to do the comparisons but rather something that has the Child's Base Class Tree united to a mirror of the Class Set of their Non-variable Parent: So Matoi will always get Rod Knight from Shigure even when he got the Tree from Jakob, Syalla will always get Herb Merchant from Kinu even when the latter doesn't have the Class Tree herself, and anyone that marries or becomes a buddy of Kanna will end up getting a Faction Parallel if they have Class Overlap that doesn't involve Herb Merchant or a Healer Class.
The other is related to the Kanna Case mentioned above: If you play with a Female Avatar and want to marry any of the Healer guys (& Yukimura), Don't Match her Secondary with Their Bases. Her Kanna won't get an Third Class Tree. Likewise, if Kanna of either gender received from the Avatar the same Secondary as the Base Class Tree for Deere, Foleo, Midoriko or Mitama, the latter ones won't be able to use the Marriage/Buddy Seals.
The Fate Class Inheritance is updated to a 95% Completion, with the only incognito to unravel being which Class Tree do Yuugiri, Crimson and Anna (whenever she gets released) pass to Kanna as their Secondary in the case of a Class Overlap:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xd0pBZ4oQtk7o3fBXUcCGCXc8tQ3BFSx4CcknOkPKTc/edit?usp=sharing
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mm I plan to keep Eponine in the Adventurer line ~
but thanks ! I'll keep these in mind ! * U *
If I can put my two cents: there's nothing wrong if Eponine is a bit Magic-oriented even when your goal is to make her an Adventurer because she will always have access to the Magic-based Shining Bow...
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My blind guess would be priest. Flannel's personal skill and Outlaw make sense together the same way Nishiki's and priest do, as well as Azura and Rod Knight. Definitely want to see confirmation.
I kinda hope it wouldn't be the case (even though the reasoning has its merits) and Nishiki gave Tsukuyomi/Orochi another Class Tree, if only because it would let me get away simulating Marriage Seal Tree Additions with simpler logic queries: Otherwise I'd have to look for another way to represent the case of the Healer-Avatar passing the Analogue Class of the wrong gender on a Overlap (which the game catches and blocks the Avatar's Spouse from using Marriage Seals)...
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Now the only question is if we can generate a list of everyone's replacement classes…
EDIT: That, and what pair-up bonuses the children get, as well as how asset/flaw affects the Avatar's pair-up bonus.
About the first part: I've been working on revamping a Google Spreadsheets-based Maximum Stats Calculator to be able of generate everyone's Class Set with Inheritance and Marriage/Buddy Seals in account using the proper logic.
I still kinda need to know some more about Nishiki and Mozume's Class Overlap cases, as well as some Kamui-related Inheritance stuff before I can make it go live...
As for the second part, it could be done on a independent table but it would need a lot of finesse and understanding...
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Flannel's primary is Garou and his secondary is Fighter.
Charlotte's primary is Fighter and secondary is Rod Knight.
A few characters have non-transferable class: Garou, Fox Spirit, Singer, etc.
It would seem to me that for transference purposes, characters use their secondary class as the class they transfer over TO OTHERS as if it was their primary, but use their own primary when determining what they receive from others.
So Flannel's primary is Garou, and he looks at Charlotte's primary and sees that it is Fighter, which is an inheritable. He grabs Fighter as the marriage seal class, but that's something he already has anyways, so its useless.
But Charlotte has Fighter and then Rod Knight. Flannel's Garou is uninhabitable, so it actually starts by comparing his Fighter against Charlotte's Fighter. These match, so the rule of getting the secondary comes into play. Except due to the earlier reversal, it treats Garou as if its the secondary for the purposes of Charlotte marriage sealing. Its not inheritable, so the game generates a replacement class. Then she gets given Outlaw instead.
That's my understanding.
Pretty much covers most of what needs to be known, but to sum it up:
When Flannel is the active part of using a Marriage/Buddy Seal, his Garou Class is used for the Logic check, hence why he doesn't get nothing new from Fighters.
When instead Flannel is the passive part, his Fighter Tree is the one used as a base for said check, so Fighters get Outlaw (from his extra set) in return while people with Fighter as their Secondary Tree get nothing.
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I think it has already been said, but in case of Flannel x Charlotte,, I think I read somewhere that Charlotte gets Oni of all things by Marriage Seal...
I don't have the game, so I can't confirm.
Actually, Thanks to some Tests done by Carter, signs seem to point Charlotte would actually get Outlaw from marrying Flannel just like Arthur gets it from him as a Buddy.
To expand, it seems all the Non-Kamui Characters with Special Classes keep Hidden Sets of their own a la Azura (who gives Hinoka access to Rod Knight via Buddy Seal, as well as Tsubaki via Marriage Seal) that come into play with Class Overlap cases with their Secondary Trees while their Spouses/Buddy do some Seal Reclassing...
The only reason their Sets are not as noticeable as Azura's is because, unlike Singer, their Special Classes are inheritable; and outside that, there are few chances to cause Class Overlaps with all of them.
(To keep the List: Flannel with Charlotte and Arthur, Nishiki with Orochi and Tsukuyomi, Mozume with Takumi)
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That's a fair point… any more suggestions with regard to my pairings….
If I can add something: Effie is also a nice alternative for Asama, as he's designed to be a Frontline Combat-heavy Mountain Priest and the Knight Tree he gets from her meshes well with that role both in Weapon Synergy and Skill-set (whether you go on the offensive with Luna or the defensive with Pavise and/or Diamond Strike).
Of course, in theory, the pairing is about about giving Asama a boost in his fighting performance at the cost of Mitama's healing performance, but given your plans also include pairing her with Shigure, it opens for her the possibility of sharing the same role as his father with some extra Anti-Magic focus by becoming a really hard-hitting Falcon Warrior with her +6 Strength Mod.
The real downfall of the pairing, though, is that Effie kinda becomes the second coming of Cherche so she'd like to cash in the Bowman Tree she gets from her A+ with Mozume in order to have the Golden Kite Warrior as a medium to integrate the War Priestess class she receives out of the Marriage with her Promotions as a Knight.
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You could have Rinkah marry Kaze, which gives Midoriko access to Smithy Skill in the Oni Savage (Blacksmith specifically) line.
Have Midoriko A+ Support with Female Kanna (means you have to pick a Male Avatar), with Mercenary as the secondary chosen option. Then you can grab Stubborness.
And lastly, have Midoriko marry Foleo, so she has access to Rod Knight, which promotes into Maid. And then Easy Life and Extravagance, which are naturally a part of the Herb Merchant line, promoted Great Merchant.
Not sure about your optimization question, though. But I know all those skills are possible with her.
EDIT: forgot about Flamboyant. She can be a Maid with the skills you listed, minus Flamboyant. If you want Flamboyant, you could replace Mercenary with Lance Fighter, but that doesn't allow Midoriko to get Stubborness.
Actually, given you suggested having Rinkah as her Mother, it's possible to reclass Rinkah into Basara with her A+ to either Oboro or Orochi to get Flamboyant in order for Midoriko to inherit it.
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(this assuming that I'm treating the gendered versions of the Priest/Priestess class correctly for inheritance; on that note, would Sakura get Herb Merchant in marriage seal and Asama get Pegasus Warrior?)
Rest assured: when the Healer Classes are either a Unit's Base or Alternate Tree, the game does the proper conversion to their Gender-equivalent before checking if they're the same as their spouse's Base and passing them via Marriage Seal Reclassing as any of those cases. So Sakura gets Herb Merchant from Asama at the same time he gets Pegasus Warrior from her, as well as Ryoma and Hinata can get Priest from Hana.
The key warning, though, is that there's an oversight and the required Gender-conversion is not done when a Healer Class is passed as a Faction Parallel, which so far is a case that only concerns certain pairings of a Kamui with a Healer Tree as his/her Secondary, and it yet has to be proved whether that is isolated to Marriage Seal Reclassing due to its simpler logic or Male Kanna can get affected by inheriting a Class Tree he can't access legally.
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The chart, at the moment, gives the impression Hana!Matoi only gets 2 classes (Pegasus Warrior as base, Samurai from Subaki... and Samurai from Hana). Shouldn't she be getting an additional class, or is that not the case?
More then likely that is an error.I am assuming she gets Priestess off of Hana.
It was an Copy-Paste Error that somehow escaped my attention that and it just got corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Well, this is awkward. A few days ago I started working on a stat calculator as well (after remembering that this game came out), only to find that a few others had already started putting one together.
Mine can currently do a bit more than the one on this page (dynamically distinguish between Priest and Priestess, account for inherited class redundancies, etc.), so I figured it would be worth posting here as well.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oqhgpt0kP3V5u_of1pIylzdpZQjiAxXKhhqUxqw96zk/export
I can also fill in some of the formula gaps in the one that's already here, if you all would rather use that one.
Well, I'm still waiting for some things to be cleared off about class inheritance and seal reclassing before finish working on the biggest revamp to the online version of bugmaniacbob's model...
But it's good to know you're bringing some more options.
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I have an answer to the first question. Female Kamui is not an exception to the rule. When she married Silas with Cavalier as her alternate class set, Kanna was able to reclass into either Cavalier or Ninja. As Ninja is Cavalier's analog, it indicates that Silas was prioritized over Kamui.
[spoiler=SIlas!Kanna]
Also, for the sake of being thorough, I checked to see if male Rod Knights and female Rod Knights are treated as separate classes for a non-Kamui couple. After pairing Jakob/Joker and Elise, I found that Jakob could use Elise's Wyvern Knight class set and vice-versa. So, it would seem the healer classes are only treated as separate when analogous classes come into play.
[spoiler=Elise]
I think I have an idea of what's happening.
Not counting the results I'm waiting from Carter of Arthur using a Buddy Seal while he has an A+ with Flannel, the whole process of Reclassing with a Marriage/Buddy (I'm still assuming they use the same logic) Seal seems to align pretty well with what I'm cross-posting from the "I want to know a Thing" thread:
To Define: User: Character using a Marriage/Buddy Seal to Reclass. Target: Character the User has a S/A+ Rank Support with. If the Base Tree of the User is different than the First Tree the Target allows to Reclass into: The User Reclass into a Class of the First Tree of the Target. The Class Set of the User Becomes the Union of his/her Class Set with the First Tree of the Target. (with a Union being "{A, B} U {C} = {A, B, C} OR {A, B} U {B} = {A, B}") Otherwise: The User Reclass into a Class of the Second Tree the Target allows to Reclass into. The Class Set of the User Becomes the Union of his/her Class Set with the Second Tree of the Target.The thing with Priest!Kamui/Sakura or Rod-Knight!Kamui/Felicia is that the Conditional Test DOES recognize the Gender-variations of each Healer Class Tree as the Same Class, but the resulting Faction Parallel is such an afterthought that it doesn't get converted to its Gender-Equivalent like it should be done when it's either a Base or Alternate Tree.
In Conclusion and using Felicia as an Example: she's actually getting "Priest" from the Avatar which hits the Gender-Constraint that brings the Hammer down and blocks her from using the Seal.
That said, I've updated the Class Inheritance Charts with the recent observations and I repeat that it still remains the question of whether a Male Kana from Rod-Knight!Kamui/Jakob or Priestess!Kamui/Asama would get affected by the above because the Class Inheritance is more through with its logic...
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nyeh, that makes giving both Basara skills to not-Kanna kids in Nohr is p much impossible. unless theres some other convoluted way involving analogous classes.
idk why i said oni savage either, i keep thinking basara is a promotion of that class
Well, the only way to get Deere both Basara skills would be through Skill Inheritance: You reclass both Kamui (via Parallel) and Jakob (via Marriage) to the Basara class from either the Lance Fighter or the Spellcaster Trees and make sure one of them gets Flamboyant while the other gets Breaking Sky...
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Dunno if this was answered yet, but if I have F!Kamui with Oni Savage secondary marry Joker, would Deere get Nohr Prince AND Oni Savage?
No, he would only get Nohr Prince along with his father's Cavalier. Kanna would get both, though.
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Wouldn't Shara get whatever class that Kinu's mother has at base, assuming that the two can Buddy Seal with each other?
Oh, true: There's also that possibility.
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Actually, she would get Oni Savage. It's been confirmed about a page ago.
So far, that confirmation is directed to the case of Charlotte marrying a Fighter!Kamui, but if it's the case for her marrying Flannel or Arthur using a Buddy Seal with an A+ for him (as well as Tsukuyomi with Nishiki or Syalla with Kinu), the statement could be right.
(And that also means Syalla might have a third way to reclass into the Dark Mage Tree without marrying the Avatar and it can even work in a Hoshido only playthrough.)
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While I was at it, I also decided to take a look at Kanna's reclass options after marrying Midoriko. The image below shows that she has access to Herb Merchant and Ninja. As such, it can be reasonably concluded that in an instance where Kamui marries a second generation character, the class set that the second generation character received from his or her set parent takes priority for Kanna's inheritance over the class set received from the variable parent.
[spoiler=Kanna]
Let me understand the last paragraph: you married an Herb-Merchant!Avatar to Midoriko, getting a Female Kanna with Ninja as the Third Class Tree. So that proves that with a Class Overlap the Mother gives her Secondary Class Tree, which in the Case of Second Generation Characters is the Class they received from their fathers.
Now, besides the irony of the Healer Classes not being associated with their Obvious Faction Parallels thanks to the Gender-split (which I thought was the reason Rod Knight could get away with things like Gender-dependent Skills) muddling the check, there are still the questions of whether Female Kamui is the Exception to the "Father first, then Mother" pattern Inheritance seems to have and ,in the case she's not and it leads to a Class Overlap case, what would that mean to the Kanna from either Rod-Knight!Kamui/Joker or Priestess!Kamui/Asama considering Inheritance seems to recognize the Gender-split Class Trees and include the proper equivalents...
EDIT: Oh, and the priority of the Kamui-sexual Lladies' Secondary Class Trees aside from Flora's (who we know gives Dark Mage from her A+ to Felicia).
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I don't have Hoshido right now, so I cannot check, unfortunately. If I were to guess, it would be Wyvern Rider, due to it being the equivalent of the Nohrian side. I mean, that's what happens with the childrens class inheritance when the parents classes overlap.
My copy should be arriving Friday, so I could check for you then. Unless, someone else knows the answer to this fabulous question? I'd like to know too *wink*
EDIT: Hinoka might actually get nothing. If Kagerou marries Tsukuyomi, she gets nothing (because her secondary is spellcaster), but Tsukuyomi gets ninja. I'd assume it's the same for Buddy Seals too. Since Azura can't give Pegasus Warrior again, Hinoka gets nothing. Does that mean neither unit gets anything? Haha, I can't wait to check.
I'm asking this because while the Marriage/Buddy Seal Reclassing is really simple, as in:
To Define: User: Character using a Marriage/Buddy Seal to Reclass. Target: Character the User has a S/A+ Rank Support with. If the User's Base Tree is different than the First Tree the Target allows to Reclass into: The User Reclass into a Class of the Target's First Tree. The User's Class Set Becomes the Union of his/her Class Set with the Target's First Tree. (with a Union being "{A, B} U {C} = {A, B, C} OR {A, B} U {B} = {A, B}") Otherwise: The User Reclass into a Class of the Second Tree the Target allows to Reclass into. The User's Class Set Becomes the Union of his/her Class Set with the Target's Second Tree.Even with the above having been proved to be true in most cases, there's still the case of how it when the Target is a Character with a Special Class and how the check seems to be focused instead on their Alternate Class Trees...
And yes, I was asking on whether Hinoka gets Wyvern Rider from Aqua in something similar to what happens with Class Inheritance or gets Rod Knight by checking into Aqua's hidden {Pegasus Warrior, Rod Knight} Class Set.
But given you have the Nohr Version: Can you check what happens when Arthur uses a Buddy Seal with an A+ with Flannel? I find it suspicious that both of the Beast Shapeshifter Guys have a Support with a Guy carrying a clear Base-Alternate overlap each. Not to mention Syalla with Kinu...
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I apologize if that has been asked before, but does anyone with the game or second-hand gameplay footage knows what class does Hinoka get from the Buddy Seal when she has an A+ with Aqua?
Unit Optimization Thread
in Fire Emblem Fates
Posted
A few corrections: