Dat Nick

The low end thieves will not double Cain. And even when they do he soaks it up pretty well, anyway (due to having a Draug-like defense stat)

The joke was always over. It was never funny to begin with (sure he's kinda not good but there's people WAY worse than him who can't even claim C2 utility, if only for suicide) And I think putting Palla above Catria may be a bit hasty. You ARE talking about a 50% speed growth difference, which is the difference between General sucking and General being viable. It also helps far more should Catria be reclassed into something like Sniper or Swordmaster. The speed WILL be overridden quickly, so all Palla will be left with is 2 str and a weapon rank soon enough. Is that notable? Yeah, but eventually it's going to get to the point where Catria can say I double and you can't. In fact, given how horrid 5% base speed growth is, I'm quite hesitant to say Palla should be top at all (she's going to run into trouble doubling even as Swordmaster with that growth in the latergame) no, Cain's better, easy. Est doubles what? Things that will OHKO her back (The Silver Axe guy will anyway, I'm 95% on that)? Est is a worse Shiida. Cain is a better Luke. You tell me which one contributes more to the team. Um, you don't recruit her? You kill her? Also, just to add onto something, I think Katrina is worth recruiting if only for the spare Aura she comes with.

Nah, people who have been rotting in the depths of the undeployed units section have been popping up and getting stuff.

...Hey, that's actually an idea... Also, this sounds a bit too abusable...

...shitting dick nipples? isnt that an old internet meme or something

Yeah, 3x archers were being referred to. Don't mind that, although I really do have to question what another mediocre flier (and I think calling 5 str/E Lances/no doubling mediocre is being generous here) is bringing to the table when we already have three good ones (Draco!Arran, Catria, Palla)

Isn't Arran supposed to be ORKOing Hunters with Silver? (Or was that archers)

I don't care what you think of me or how you percieve my arguments, so long as you do so correctly. And frankly, if I feel like making a detailed argument using enemy and character averages and whatnot to determine that one character is not as good/bad as we once thought and use information to support that, you BETTER take me serious, regardless of your opinion of me. And so long as you interpret my argument correctly and are able to use evidence to knock down statements I actually made, and ones I actually said I was certain of and not just "Palla might not double later on in the game, i dunno" or anything that represents a vague possibility like that, then I don't have a problem if you manage to debunk it. At all. Put the mod-horn away, Sirius. We're done. Last post regarding this.

If this was anything conclusive? You'd have a point. I said nothing conclusive and definite. I pointed out there was a PROBABILITY. Do you understand what that word means? It is not in any way associate with the word "definite". So guess what? You don't have a fucking point at all. You ARE a fairly slow individual, so I'm not sure if you realized this...so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and break it to you now. This game is not FEDS. Where in the holy hell did I try to claim otherwise? It's incredibly easy to prove someone wrong when you prove a statement wrong that they never said, you know? I can do it, too! Hey, Marcus! Ghandi is NOT the current president of the united states! It's currently Barack Obama!

Yep, here you go again, only it's crystal clear this time; so crystal clear, I'm shocked even YOU strawmanned it. UNLESS. Signifying doubt. Nothing conclusive. I did not go into detail that theif utility WAS useless. I said Julian had a cost to overcome. I did not ONCE say he couldn't overcome it. I said he would need to drop if he did not justify that cost. Nowhere in the post that I made does it say "Julian is worthless because he cannot overcome his opportunity cost". NO WHERE! Also: PROBABLY. NOT guaranteed. You waste turns running towards Julian's village. You waste turns running around collecting chests. That's just obvious. The question is which wastes more turns? Yes, I said probably Julian; I did NOT say definitely. That's it. I've had enough. I HAVE HAD E-FUCKING-NOUGH. Do you know what you are? Do you know why you blow every single statement I make massively out of context? No, it's not because you're stupid. Nobody could be this fucking stupid. Nobody could think Cav!Ryan is a good unit. Nobody could think arguing a unit better than Sheema is hype. Et cetera. I've got two possibilities: A: You're a coward, and you cannot win against me in a straight-up debate, so you resort to blowing every last statement I make far out of context to give you a head up (or at least, in your own mind. If you were actually a good debater and COULD beat me in a straight-up fight? I've seen nothing indicating this fact, so I will discard that theory.) or B: You, along with he rest of #feto, is still sour at me over past incidents, and thus takes great pleasure in laughing at ridiculous things I said; even if it was not me whom said them, but rather the completely ridiculous Colonel-M filter that is horribly biased towards me, as he has proven time and time again. Ari, please tell me you see something here. You're a smart guy. You can definitely see that he has gone over the top with straw-manning me on several occasions in this topic. And I'm tired of it. If you're not going to boot him out of the thread (I would love that, I would absolutely fucking LOVE that, but you haven't done that to Slize who you actually seemed annoyed with so there's no way you're going to do that just for me), please, have a few words with him, because I am really getting sick of having my arguments blown out of proportion again and again just so #feto has something to laugh at. (that does not correspond with my actual opinion)

...Did I say Elran sucked or something? Although, other people would like those defense shards and arms scrolls, to get better bow ranks for instance. I'm not saying it's not a worthy investment to do so, but hell, I could give Maric a dracoshield or the defense shards (or do you mean even if Maric got the shards and shit) and all he'd need to do to take a Dragon hit is an HP proc in the prologue.

It doesn't change that his ability to one-shot them is quite useful (although, Etzel is better for now). You just need to use somebody else as bait. And no, Barst wouldn't be an example. Barst has fairly good base stats. And no, even on Lunatic, there's varying levels of useless. For instance, Sheema just shows up at the end of the chapter, but Dolph and Maccelan are forced for their join chapters (giving them use even if you decide to sacrifice them) They suck, but can still provide utility for not consuming a slot. Thomas's village can be visited on Turn 1 and you've got more than a few dracos to deal with too; so even though he's not OHKOing, I wouldn't say he's not worth Marth going out of his way for one turn. Then there's idiots like Matthis who we need to go far out of our way for and don't give anything in return. At least we don't need to bend over backwards for Sheema (although I'd truly argue the EXP from killing Sheema>Sheema herself)

Oh, you were excluding weapon rank boosts. Okay. Horseman-cop out still stands, but as I said, I'm perfectly acceptable with it only meaning them being one slot above her.

Not true, actually. Know how you said you need 11 str to OHKO dragons with Partia? Sniper!Sheema has 10 base str. And if somebody else wants Partia, Sheema can't cop-out to Horseman and retain dragon-ORKOing with Brave Bow.

That's true. But what flying enemies exist in-between her jointime and Zag? A few dracos? I'm not wasting Partia shots on THOSE.

That's nothing new. Tier gaps were pretty big in FEDS, too. EDIT: ...Not to fuck over my own argument or anything, but Ari, doesn't Sheema have Auto-A as Sniper? Absolute base stats page lists her WEXP has 135 Bow...Although, All-reclass would negate this point anyway (Zag has better overall absolute bases than Sheema and still has A Bows)

I'm NOT! Jesus Christ, WHAT THE FUCK? I go out of my way to say "they're shit, just better than Sheema" (I have not argued them better than ANYBODY else) and you STILL SOMEHOW find a way to totally ignore that portion. Are you capable of taking one single post I made in the correct context? I know I shouldn't be surprised seeing as how you have so much disdain for me you'll say Cav!Ryan and Cav!Gordin are good setups just for the sake of disagreeing with me, but honestly? I even took the time to spell it out for you, how on earth could anybody interpret "they suck, just not as much as Sheema" (And I have not mentioned a single name besides Sheema) as hype?! Well, YOU apparently, but...REALLY...this is like saying "Arran is better than Est!" is hyping Arran. See, dondon? I TOLD you I wasn't misrepresenting. He really does this. All the time. And I've had enough of it. And he claims I do it to him. Isn't that a riot? That's true; the main point was the mobility. I get they don't have a big stat lead. ...I said Brave Bow (and as I said, that's the best thing you can use it for, killing flying dragons before they can leave a mark on you) so if you can kill them with the Bow (and I'm nearly sure it's impossible not to) then it shouldn't be favoritism. Then again, they could have gotten a huge HP/Def spike rendering it impossible, I shouldn't have overlooked that...Anyway, Sheema can too, but they've got much better mobility to position themselves. Hell, if I don't have another Horseman on board, I wouldn't not consider bringing them just for the Brave Bow on flying dragons, if it ORKOs them. Wasn't trying to state otherwise. I'm perfectly fine with them just being right above Sheema. They're better than useless sacks of shit like her and Est (Who can't even claim prologue utility, Cain is a better choice for P-8), that's the only thing I was arguing (Contrary to what CM seems to be under the complete delusion of...)

...It's not. Huh. For whatever reason I remember it being so when I wiki'd Ari Gold ages ago.

A: I'm banned B: I have no desire to talk to those tools again even if I WASN'T banned (and I'm certain the feeling's mutual) C: I've cleared up the issue endless times and I get the hands-over-the-ears treatment every time I try to do so, why would doing this in a chat be any different

Nope, no misrepresentation. I get laughed at for things I have said that have been taken out of context and I have had it up to here with it.

...Grr... When I see healers, I'm used to thinking "easy EXP"... edit: In response to a character on some Canadian drama series, while I think it goes without saying that Zag and Wolf are definitely shitty units, I don't really see how they're as bad as Sheema. Unlike her, they have some form of mobility which makes running around chipping stuff a lot easier. Silver Bow has 90 hit and they have 17-ish skill, plus B bows should still grant an accuracy boost. If they're seeing hit rates under 100 (enemy avo seems to be around 20~) it doesn't look like it's going to be by much, and even if they miss the penalty will be much smaller than it would have been if Sheema misses (Even with 1-2 range being more prevalent, they'd still be in less shit than she would be if she missed with a slayer; more enemies have 1-2 range than in FEDS, but you still have Silver Sword/Axe Heroes and Generals and the like around so it's not like they have absolutely zero safe options to target). Now, and I'm perfectly aware everybody else can do this, but even Zag and Wolf should be perfectly capable of killing flying dragons with the Brave Bow (And that's really the best thing you can use the weapon for, killing dragons before they can even hit you, so I don't see how giving them to use it for the most useful purpose it can be used for is too much favoritism) but their move actually makes them perfectly viable choices for the job (unless they're going to have hit problems in which case yeah I guess they're screwed, but I'm crunching numbers and unless I'm overlooking something they don't seem to be in that much trouble). Sheema has availability...but what's she doing with it, honestly? As bad as Zag and Wolf are, I don't see any way at all they're worse than Sheema. I'll repeat that last sentence again and bold some vital words so even Colonel_M and Mekkah have no excuse to take this out of context. Zag and Wolf are bad units, but just not as bad as Sheema. *waits for #feto to laugh about how BB hypes the Wolfguard to Top tier*

Where? /must have missed it

That's our Colonel_M, misrepresenting me for about the 20th time this week. Name me ONE instance where I said the Wolfguard was fucking good at all. I said they beat out shit like Sheema, I did not ONCE say they were worth even half a shit. I'm really getting fucking sick of you taking things I say out of context just so you can lol at them, you know that, don't you? Don't even say that I've been misrepresenting you back, too, because you DID say what I've accused you of saying that's fucking stupid (Cav!Ryan and Cav!Gordin don't suck, Ryan and Gordin as wholes don't suck) I'm only the biggest goddamn Zagaro fanboy in existance. People should remember this. It really means something when I'm not disputing his current-suckage, doesn't it? (But I'm still using him, and I don't care what I have to do to make that miracle happen)

Um, okay? It's still completely pointless to have Sheema get killed after she may or may not have killed one single enemy with a slayer. It doesn't matter if the two guys attacking Sheema are weak to the same slayer she has equipped; the second one WILL kill her if for whatever reason the first doesn't (since Sheema can't even take ONE hit and thus has to attack on the player phase) Everything. Because it's completely impractical to have Sheema playing with slayers when all it'll do for your army is get her killed, because then you can't even use that weapon for the rest of the chapter. If you can't take more than one hit or can't ORKO, you don't have any business fooling around with slayers. It's going to become more of a hassle than a benefit. It's not very practical to have Wolf and Zag minor chipping, too, but it's MORE practical seeing as their safety isn't constantly at risk. Here's the thing, Wolf can do damage without initiating counter-attacks...(even on 1-2 people, with Longbow) Uhh...you can't move after trading. So the only thing Sheema can hit with a slayer is something that's completely adjacent to a space next to Palla. Do you have any idea how situational this is? On top of all of this shit, accuracy is a potential issue. Sheema with Sword-based slayer Weapons has less than 100 hit before any weapon triangle factors are considered, and neither is enemy avoid (and IIRC they actually have luck, although I wasn't really paying attention, could be wrong) She's guaranteed to die and not even guaranteed to hit, and certainly not guaranteed to kill (because when +3 is enough for Luke to OHKO armors, why would I waste even more money and forge +4?). Another guarantee? You can't use that slayer again this whole chapter, or Sheema herself. How is this even REMOTELY a good idea?