Haar

[Killer Poleax]

I keep hearing Haar is overrated...how do you overrate the best unit in the game again? I'd say the only ones who ever match his utility are Ike and the herons.

Also, Shinon is a good match for Haar for most improved.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Shinon. Now that I think about it, I'd probably give that award to Shinon cause he sucked ass (when he rejoins the team) in PoR. Both of them have improved a lot and now they're both awesome.

Haar's overrated cause he has trouble onerounding in part 4 where his 30 speed growth finally catches up to him and has trouble onerounding in endgame cause of his 32 speed cap. He's awesome for the rest of the game but he can't be the best if he can't consistantly oneround enemies. He's one of the best but not THE best.

Edited December 9, 2008 by KSFF2150

[Lord Raven]

Aside from his HUGE availability and his HUGE utility during most of that availability, right.

[_____]

He's the most useful character in the game. Maybe he isn't the best statistically, but he's a huge help during Parts 2, 3, and 4. Maybe he lags behind come endgame, but the endgame is so loleasy.

[Knife]

I keep hearing Haar is overrated...how do you overrate the best unit in the game again? I'd say the only ones who ever match his utility are Ike and the herons.

Also, Shinon is a good match for Haar for most improved.

I really can't think of a unit better than Haar besides Ike, the Royals, and the Herons. And some of the Royals are still not overall useful than Haar because most aren't available till late in the game. He's one rounding things pretty easy with the Brave Axe, making it a better choice than Urvan.

[_____]

Ike has an auto-promotion. Once you reach 20 around 3-5 or something, you shouldn't use him. Lack of usefulness right thar.

Reyson is useable from 3-5 until the endgame. However, it's completely possible to bring Rafiel or Leanne to the endgame instead of him.

Haar, on the other hand, is useable for 2-P, 2-E and 3-2 on. He's going to be one of your strongest units when he joins, beaten by only Titania and maybe Shinon, since Haar saw major action in 2-E. He has Axes, flying utility, and an awesome class.

Laguz Royals are useable for, what, 5 chapters?

[Florete]

Ike has an auto-promotion. Once you reach 20 around 3-5 or something, you shouldn't use him. Lack of usefulness right thar.

Reyson is useable from 3-5 until the endgame. However, it's completely possible to bring Rafiel or Leanne to the endgame instead of him.

Haar, on the other hand, is useable for 2-P, 2-E and 3-2 on. He's going to be one of your strongest units when he joins, beaten by only Titania and maybe Shinon, since Haar saw major action in 2-E. He has Axes, flying utility, and an awesome class.

Laguz Royals are useable for, what, 5 chapters?

Ike is good from the moment you get him to the end of the game, and most people promote around 4-E anyway, so his promotion isn't so late.

Reyson is easily better. The only way he loses to Rafiel is that he takes one turn to transform. Otherwise, he beats both in every way.

He can be fried by thunder magic and he starts to lag offensively come part 4. I'd say he's beating Titania in part 3 anyway, but not Ike and Reyson overall.

They're only better statistically.

[_____]

Ike is good from the moment you get him to the end of the game, and most people promote around 4-E anyway, so his promotion isn't so late.

Reyson is easily better. The only way he loses to Rafiel is that he takes one turn to transform. Otherwise, he beats both in every way.

He can be fried by thunder magic and he starts to lag offensively come part 4. I'd say he's beating Titania in part 3 anyway, but not Ike and Reyson overall.

They're only better statistically.

Ike is good from the moment you get him, but he's nowhere near the invinceble beast you make him out to be. Most enemies have a 50%~ chance to hit him, and he's not one-rounding the oh-so-common armor knights. Most people probably promote around 3-11~ anyway, I believe.

Alright. Fine. Reyson, however, like all dancers/herons, lacks any combat abilities, or defensive abilities. He can refresh units. That's great. Unfortunatly, he can't always refresh the units he needs to because he's so frail. He's not a frontlining unit. Canto helps, I admit, but there're always situations where he's not able to refresh units because enemies can one-round him.

And Thunder Mages are so common? Really, the only threat I can think of for Part 3 would be the Bolting mage in the swamp. He doesn't lag come endgame because he can use the Brave Axe. If you don't want to waste that, you can forge him a Silver Axe with less weight so he can double. He's got such great strength that he doesn't need the extra Might Urvan gives him.

[Florete]

Ike is good from the moment you get him, but he's nowhere near the invinceble beast you make him out to be. Most enemies have a 50%~ chance to hit him, and he's not one-rounding the oh-so-common armor knights. Most people probably promote around 3-11~ anyway, I believe.

Alright. Fine. Reyson, however, like all dancers/herons, lacks any combat abilities, or defensive abilities. He can refresh units. That's great. Unfortunatly, he can't always refresh the units he needs to because he's so frail. He's not a frontlining unit. Canto helps, I admit, but there're always situations where he's not able to refresh units because enemies can one-round him.

And Thunder Mages are so common? Really, the only threat I can think of for Part 3 would be the Bolting mage in the swamp. He doesn't lag come endgame because he can use the Brave Axe. If you don't want to waste that, you can forge him a Silver Axe with less weight so he can double. He's got such great strength that he doesn't need the extra Might Urvan gives him.

He pretty much is. He dodges a lot, and even without dodging he's 4 rounded at worst. Haar is about the same, but with major weakness to thunder and isn't dodging as much. Ike also has Earth affinity. Mega win right there. Haar one-rounds armor knight as often as Ike does and two fewer chapters than a few others for promotion is hardly a big deal.

He's got 7 or 8 move (can't remember which) and can do Galdr for four units, plus he can move away if he needs to. I think he's gonna be fine unless you're an idiot. And he actually has combat ability with magic cards. Terrible, but existing.

Common enough, especially that Bolting on his part 3 joining chapter. 2-E has some of them as well, all around, and they still show occasionally throughout the game. Plus there's the endgame thunder spirits. Forging a Silver Axe with less weight is totally meaningless because his base strength is already high enough to wield it without AS loss. And maybe you can give him a Brave Axe, but what if you don't have it or someone else gets it? In that situation, he'd be lagging a bit at endgame.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[_____]

He pretty much is. He dodges a lot, and even without dodging he's 4 rounded at worst. Haar is about the same, but with major weakness to thunder and isn't dodging as much. Ike also has Earth affinity. Mega win right there. Haar one-rounds armor knight as often as Ike does and two fewer chapters than a few others for promotion is hardly a big deal.

He's got 7 or 8 move (can't remember which) and can do Galdr for four units, plus he can move away if he needs to. I think he's gonna be fine unless you're an idiot. And he actually has combat ability with magic cards. Terrible, but existing.

Common enough, especially that Bolting on his part 3 joining chapter. 2-E has some of them as well, all around, and they still show occasionally throughout the game. Plus there's the endgame thunder spirits. Forging a Silver Axe with less weight is totally meaningless because his base strength is already high enough to wield it without AS loss. And maybe you can give him a Brave Axe, but what if you don't have it or someone else gets it? In that situation, he'd be lagging a bit at endgame.

In the Prolouge, Ike can be 2 or 3 rounded by the armors that start the chapter off. Granted, a lot of units get 1-2 rounded anyway, but he's not taking on armies by himself until he gets to the late teens. His supports will take at least 4 chapters to build up fully, because he needs to get Oscar to be able to support him, and then have the actual supports build up.

Haar, being the manly man he is, has Axes, and one-rounds those armor knights Ike has some trouble killing. He'll have very decent hit chances unless it's against Swordmasters, in which Ike one-rounds with good hit. Luckily, these chapters aren't full of Swordmasters. Also, on the first level of 2-E, there are no Thunder Mages. None at all. Thunder Mages mainly appear at the left stairs, and Haar will have a height advantage. No hit for Thunder mages, but Javelin Haar laughs at thier pathetic Defenses. There's a chance he might even be promoted by Part 3.

That Bolting mage will snipe just about any character. Meanwhile, might Haar can help take out the cavalry at the bottom of his joining chapter while Ike and co. sneak away to take out the Bolting mage. Haar's not affected by those swamp tiles, either, so he's perfect for dealing with the patheticly slow armor knights. Haar can't take out the Thunder spirits, I admit, but everything until then gets smashed to pieces.

If someone else is using the Brave Axe, Haar can manage with a Silver Axe or a even Silver Poleaxe if he has enough Strength. Forging is your friend.

[Kintenbo]

He's the most useful character in the game. Maybe he isn't the best statistically, but he's a huge help during Parts 2, 3, and 4. Maybe he lags behind come endgame, but the endgame is so loleasy.

I'd vouch that Haar has the best stats statistically for Beorcs. He literally has the most defense of any of them! Really, like it's been said, only speed and thunder magic are threatening. No problem with anything else!

[Florete]

In the Prolouge, Ike can be 2 or 3 rounded by the armors that start the chapter off. Granted, a lot of units get 1-2 rounded anyway, but he's not taking on armies by himself until he gets to the late teens. His supports will take at least 4 chapters to build up fully, because he needs to get Oscar to be able to support him, and then have the actual supports build up.

Haar, being the manly man he is, has Axes, and one-rounds those armor knights Ike has some trouble killing. He'll have very decent hit chances unless it's against Swordmasters, in which Ike one-rounds with good hit. Luckily, these chapters aren't full of Swordmasters. Also, on the first level of 2-E, there are no Thunder Mages. None at all. Thunder Mages mainly appear at the left stairs, and Haar will have a height advantage. No hit for Thunder mages, but Javelin Haar laughs at thier pathetic Defenses. There's a chance he might even be promoted by Part 3.

That Bolting mage will snipe just about any character. Meanwhile, might Haar can help take out the cavalry at the bottom of his joining chapter while Ike and co. sneak away to take out the Bolting mage. Haar's not affected by those swamp tiles, either, so he's perfect for dealing with the patheticly slow armor knights. Haar can't take out the Thunder spirits, I admit, but everything until then gets smashed to pieces.

If someone else is using the Brave Axe, Haar can manage with a Silver Axe or a even Silver Poleaxe if he has enough Strength. Forging is your friend.

Uh...I don't think so. If they can hit him, he's 3-4 rounded at worst. Earth affinity still exists, and is still better than Haar's supports that will take even longer to build anyway.

Haar doesn't double as often, even occasionally against armor knights. On 2-E, Thunder mages are on the left and right sides, not just the left. Haar is probably better on the right side, but if he's at the right, the Thunder mages actually do still have a chance to hit him. There's no way he's promoting without all your BEXP and massive favoritism. On the swordmasters note, there actually are a good number of them in part 3.

That Bolting mage will likely target Haar before anyone else. If you keep away from that guy, or you want to steal the Bolting, yes, Haar is extremely good for this chapter.

Alright. It's not going to help him one-round anyway if he isn't doubling. Urvan is stronger than even a forged Silver Axe with a +3 might card anyway.

[Killer Poleax]

If someone else is using the Brave Axe, Haar can manage with a Silver Axe or a even Silver Poleaxe if he has enough Strength. Forging is your friend.

Forging is not going to make Haar faster if his speed is low. He's got a 30 speed growth that's gonna catch up with him sometime in part 4 and he'll have trouble doubling some enemies. He's also having trouble doubling in endgame without brave weapons cause of his 32 speed cap. He's awesome for the rest of the game but he struggles a bit in part 4.

[_____]

Uh...I don't think so. If they can hit him, he's 3-4 rounded at worst. Earth affinity still exists, and is still better than Haar's supports that will take even longer to build anyway.

Haar doesn't double as often, even occasionally against armor knights. On 2-E, Thunder mages are on the left and right sides, not just the left. Haar is probably better on the right side, but if he's at the right, the Thunder mages actually do still have a chance to hit him. There's no way he's promoting without all your BEXP and massive favoritism. On the swordmasters note, there actually are a good number of them in part 3.

That Bolting mage will likely target Haar before anyone else. If you keep away from that guy, or you want to steal the Bolting, yes, Haar is extremely good for this chapter.

Alright. It's not going to help him one-round anyway if he isn't doubling. Urvan is stronger than even a forged Silver Axe with a +3 might card anyway.

Since this thread isn't a debate thread, we should probably just make a debate.

I'm not ignoring your post. I'm just saying.

[Florete]

Since this thread isn't a debate thread, we should probably just make a debate.

I'm not ignoring your post. I'm just saying.

Alright, fine with me. You'll defend Haar, and I'll defend Ike or Reyson?

[_____]

Forging is not going to make Haar faster if his speed is low. He's got a 30 speed growth that's gonna catch up with him sometime in part 4 and he'll have trouble doubling some enemies. He's also having trouble doubling in endgame without brave weapons cause of his 32 speed cap. He's awesome for the rest of the game but he struggles a bit in part 4.

Haar has 30 speed come endgame on average, without BEXP. With that, he's doubling Armors and Dragons, the two most common endgame classes. He'll manage.

Also, Forged Axes have more might, more hit, and more critical. Even if he doesn't double, there's a good chance he'll kill the enemy.

[_____]

Alright, fine with me. You'll defend Haar, and I'll defend Ike or Reyson?

Alright.

[Florete]

Also, Forged Axes have more might, more hit, and more critical. Even if he doesn't double, there's a good chance he'll kill the enemy.

And everyone else can get that same advantage. Thing is, when a character doubles, that further increases their chance to pull off that critical.

[_____]

Fair enough. Going back to your Brave Axe point:

Any Axe user can use the Brave Axe. That's true. However, Haar is probably the singularly best candidate for it. With it, he WILL one-round just about every enemy. Reavers can double already, as can Axe Paladins. Haar is lacking the speed needed to double, so he can make up for it with the Brave Axe.

[Florete]

Fair enough. Going back to your Brave Axe point:

Any Axe user can use the Brave Axe. That's true. However, Haar is probably the singularly best candidate for it. With it, he WILL one-round just about every enemy. Reavers can double already, as can Axe Paladins. Haar is lacking the speed needed to double, so he can make up for it with the Brave Axe.

No they can't. Kieran has a speed cap of 31 and Titania has 33. They want it as well. Plus, with the Brave Axe, Nolan or Boyd can attack four times where two hits may not always kill. It also gives them more chances for Colossus, etc.

[_____]

Nolan has Tarvos. Boyd can use Urvan. They're good.

Kieran has terrible availability.

Titania is Haar's only competition for the Brave Axe. Haar, however, has a 38 Strength cap. Titania has 34. He'll be putting out more damage than her, and is a much better endgame unit due to flying and the like.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Itsuki Koizumi

[Killer Poleax]

Fair enough. Going back to your Brave Axe point:

Any Axe user can use the Brave Axe. That's true. However, Haar is probably the singularly best candidate for it. With it, he WILL one-round just about every enemy. Reavers can double already, as can Axe Paladins. Haar is lacking the speed needed to double, so he can make up for it with the Brave Axe.

Kieran (surprisingly) has the same speed growth as Haar and one less max speed. It's probably better to give it to Haar but if you're using Kieran, he needs it too. I'm not sure if Kieran could oneround as efficiently as Haar can with the Brave Axe so it might be best in Haar's hands.

Red Fox of Fire already typed something similar to this so you can ignore this if you want.

Edited December 9, 2008 by KSFF2150

[Florete]

Nolan has Tarvos. Boyd can use Urvan. They're good.

Kieran has terrible availability.

Titania is Haar's only competition for the Brave Axe. Haar, however, has a 38 Strength cap. Titania has 34. He'll be putting out more damage then her, and is a much better endgame unit due to flying and the like.

Nolan has lower strength and might need the extra attacks. Boyd doesn't always cap speed, so he may end up in the same position as Haar.

He's good for his chapters and isn't tough to keep up later on. Plus, the Brave Axe is with Micaiah's group until part 4, so that's when any of these people will actually get it.

Titania might get it so she can one-round more consistently. Point is, with so much competition, Haar is never guaranteed to get the Brave Axe. Hell, even Ike might get.

[Killer Poleax]

No they can't. Kieran has a speed cap of 31 and Titania has 33. They want it as well. Plus, with the Brave Axe, Nolan or Boyd can attack four times where two hits may not always kill. It also gives them more chances for Colossus, etc.

I'd give the Brave Axe to Haar, Kieran, or Titania. Who aren't Boyd and Nolan one-rounding besides red dragons and bosses? Brave axes are weak against enemies on defense tiles so they're better off using Urvan/Tarvos. Yeah. Colossus can activate more often but they don't need the brave axe as much as the other three do.

Edited December 10, 2008 by KSFF2150

[canas is back]

if there was a hand to hand fight between haar and chuck norris, haar would win.

[_____]

Ike has Ragnell. There's no way in hell he's getting it.

Nolan only has 1 less Strength than Haar without BEXP. He's not lacking strength.

Boyd's going to reach around 34 Speed. That's four more than Haar. He'll be doubling things Haar just hits once. He's just fine.

Kieran's useful for the, what, 2 chapters he's in before leaving for a billion years. When he comes back, he's underleveled and is almost unuseable.

If you're complaining about Haar's caps, why would you even bother with Titania's obviosuly inferior Gold Knight caps? Haar can fly, has better caps, and he'll probably be around the same level.

Haar's the best candidate.