Rate the Base-Game Units: Rating Redux

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

So from the Intermission thread some folks wanted a thread to discuss ratings they changed their minds on, so here we go.

Below be @lenticulars list, shamelessly stolen, sorted by 10-1 rating:

Spoiler

1. Seadall        9.57
2. Chloé        9
3. Ivy            9
4. Panette        9
5. Kagetsu        8.58
6. Pandreo        8.21
7. Merrin        8.19
8. Alear        7.6 
9. Hortensia    7.5
10. Louis        7.4
11. Fogado        7.1
12. Céline        6.4
13. Veyle        6.4
14. Goldmary    6.29
15. Framme        6.25
16. Lapis        5.8
17. Amber        5.75
18. Yunaka        5.75
19. Diamant        5.67
20. Alcryst        5.5
21. Citrinne    5.5
22. Zelkov        5.38
23. Vander        5.2
24. Mauvier        5.1
25. Clanne        5
26. Lindon        5
27. Saphir        5
28. Timerra        5
29. Rosado        4.92
30. Anna        4.5        
31. Etie        4.25
32. Alfred        3.75
33. Jade        3.7
34. Boucheron    3.67
35. Jean        2.75
36. Bunet        2

 

 

The DLC units will follow later today in a single thread, once I got all my info together.

[samthedigital]

At a glance Citrinne's rating stands out the most as being too low in my opinion. Getting her speed up to par takes investment to be sure, but a lot of the units around her are just not able to get the same level of performance. She's a great Bonded Shield target and can comfortably hit one round benchmarks against Maddening enemies throughout the game. Celine for example only has 4 more speed with 8 less magic at ilvl 30 in the same class, and the magic is a lot harder to fix. If Vidamine was a good class or if Celine was really good early on I could see the difference, but neither is true in my experience. That's just one example though; there are a lot of other characters rated higher that outperform her. I think that I gave her a 7 originally, and I could see myself upping that by a point now.

Yunaka: I recently used Yunaka along with a lot of terrible units. I found a Steel Dagger from the well that I forged into a Silver early. It took her a little while to start doubling and one rounding with it, but she quickly became one of my best units. She ended up reclassing into Mage Knight and becoming my secondary magic carry. I'm not really opposed to the rating she got, but I have a better impression of her after this. It does take some effort to get her out of her base class though.

Diamant: I just want to use this as an excuse to talk about why Diamant has Sol with a dex cap of 23. I have a strong suspicion that his dex cap was balanced around a mounted Instruct and Dex+5. That amount of dex is enough to make it somewhat reliable with Roy or Ike helping his survivability, but it's a lot of investment for a questionable amount of gain, and dex instruct is otherwise pretty useless.

Amber: Dude has one of the best strength stats which makes him a great Lyn user or Emblem spammer; in my mind he's a lot better than most of the units around him who have middling stats everywhere and won't do as much with investment. Generally speaking most units stink without investment too, so I think that it's perfectly fair to compare units when they have a proper build and the like.

Bunet: He's a bad unit, but I like him more than growth units. They take effort to get anywhere and are worse than units that take none to train. Bunet while being bad at least can at least be a positive when deployed without having a training arc.

[Wuzzy]

Gonna drop some stuff, my suggestions are based on Maddening/Fixed

Chloe - Far too high (especially above Kagetsu/Panette/Merrin/Pandreo). Even in casual runs where you are routing/feeding Chloe a ton (my reference is a Level 6, ASAP promote Griffin Chloe at Chapter 11 with heavy Mercurius usage), Chloe's stats aren't going to be on par with the top-tier-Solm-prepromotes to have her rank above all of them bar Ivy. The only way Chloe becomes on par is if you fed her all the DLC stat boosters but even then, she's only just on par with a ton of resources being used and still doesn't necessarily overtake them. I'm also assuming Chloe's score was based on Wyvern Chloe, which is serviceable in the midgame but scales poorly due to Chloe's low Str growth.

Kagetsu - Imo he's definitely the 3rd best unit in the game. I know Kagetsu went through his "omg he's busted" phase and we are on the "overrated" phase but what makes him stand out amongst other physical attackers is he has access to Parthia for 2 Chapters before Panette and Merrin which allows him to start his snowball much earlier.

Jade - She's far too low. I know Jade has a bad first impression being a worse Louis which I do agree with but, I think the trap here is that people feel like she has to stay in the General/Great Knight classline for some reason. Jade's personal bases and growths are very similar to Lapis (Lapis has much better Spd/Lck, Jade has better HP/Str/Mag/Def) and both desperately want to reclass out of their base classes ASAP so I don't see why one is ranked significantly higher than the other. Anyways, Jade also makes a pretty solid Griffin Knight as she has decent-ish base Magic plus a pretty good base Magic growth as well (she's also solid as either Sage/Mage Knight/Wyvern).

Zelkov - Him being lower than Yunaka is strange, as anything she can do applies to him (using forged daggers, evasion strategies) well but better due to his much higher stats. His higher starting level also gives him better flexibility as he can get out of Thief a lot easier than Yunaka which is such a huge benefit as well. Don't really see a reason why she's ranked higher unless people really value availability or Chapter 6.

Citrinne/Amber - Both kinda fall into the same category as they initially got written off because of their low Speed. Speed is a very easy stat to fix (Lyn/Lucina ring, Chaos Style, Speed + X being cheap, Tonics, Meals, etc.) so having a much higher Str/Mag stat is much more appealing. Both of them also have some advantages over their Solm-counterparts (Panette for Amber, Pandreo for Citrinne) as they can get really good skills like Canter or Momentum before they can.

Veyle - I'm surprised she's ranked this high considering Saphir/Lindon/Mauvier all got blasted for having poor availability and got ranked lower as a result but, Veyle has the worst availability out of all of them. Even then, it's not like the latter 3 are completely unsalvageable either as I find them to be very competent filler units.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Wuzzy

[samthedigital]

33 minutes ago, Wuzzy said:

Kagetsu - Imo he's definitely the 3rd best unit in the game. I know Kagetsu went through his "omg he's busted" phase and we are on the "overrated" phase but what makes him stand out amongst other physical attackers is he has access to Parthia for 2 Chapters before Panette and Merrin which allows him to start his snowball much earlier.

His lack of flight prevents him from snowballing in chapter 12 in my experience. I might be able to see him starting to snowball in chapter 13, but I like to give Lyn to Ivy and glue my Bonded Shield to her since I don't bother memorizing what's in the dark and she has 1-2 range to wreck just about everything on the map iirc. That is to say I think that there is an argument to be made between him and Panette. I largely agree with your points otherwise. I'm a little annoyed that I forgot to mention Chloe myself though.

[SnowFire]

Unsure if this will be the roundup thread or if there'll be a further one after rerating, but just to post again from the Intermission thread, rounded values (which I think are somewhat more meaningful, as the decimals are often "noise" past a certain amount due to not enough raters):

9.5: Seadall
9: Chloé, Ivy, Panette
8.5: Kagetsu
8: Pandreo, Merrin
7.5: Alear, Hortensia, Louis
7: Fogado
6.5: Céline, Veyle, Goldmary, Framme
6: Lapis, Yunaka, Amber
5.5: Diamant, Alcryst, Citrinne, Zelkov
5: Vander, Mauvier, Clanne, Timerra, Lindon, Saphir, Rosado
4.5: Anna, Etie
4: Alfred
3.5: Jade, Boucheron
3: Jean
2: Bunet

And the resulting TierMaker chart when rounding to the nearest entry (doesn't match above always) - thanks to Imuabicus for catching that Jean was missing before (the first result when googling for an Engage Tier Maker chart comes up with a list that doesn't include Lindon, Saphir, or Jean...  sigh...):

[Dark Holy Elf]

Just piggybacking off the comments of others, agreeing with some and disagreeing with some:

-Citrinne I agree feels too low, agree that she is better than Celine (and probably everyone else below Celine, though you could argue me on a couple). One of the better characters for the "one-round things with magic" build, and that's a good build. And she has early Canter over her competition, at least post-well.

-Veyle's ranking is roughly fine, I think? She deserves to be above the other lowish-availability characters because she actually brings something new and unique to the team, i.e. dragon typing to carry Byleth/Corrin/others. She's less than a point and a half above them anyway.

-Chloe's big advantage on the midgame Elusia/Solm crew is that she has Canter and they do not. So in part 1 she is an outstanding combat unit, in part 2 she is still a great combat unit and has Canter over those who would otherwise be better, and in part 3 she's... passable. That's a very good overall package. I don't feel strongly on how she compares with the other high-end units but I don't think she's too high by much if she is.

-I think Bunet deserves to have the lowest score in the game taking into account different possible playstyles.

To add one of my own, the thing that jumps out at me is that I think Alfred should be below Boucheron. Boucheron has the niche of early backup, and doesn't compete with Louis + Chloe for his weapons, and has slightly better stats overall too IMO. But it's not a huge gap, and someone could easily weight +1 move more highly than me.

[samthedigital]

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I think Bunet deserves to have the lowest score in the game taking into account different possible playstyles.

How are you determining this exactly?

[Dark Holy Elf]

7 hours ago, samthedigital said:

How are you determining this exactly?

I was mostly thinking in comparison to Jean (the next lowest) or Anna: there are of course playstyles where those two will be worse than Bunet. But players who are into investing into growth units heavily will get a fair bit out of them; they do have legitimate advantages over others once they get rolling. I don't think there's any type of player who will view Bunet as anything better than vaguely passable filler for a window after he joins. That's his ceiling, while his floor is "do almost nothing in the desert map, then get benched". I think many players see Bunet join at a point in the game where they already just had to bench a bunch of other units, at least some of which they were getting definite use out of (e.g. someone like Framme), and won't be inclined to bench yet someone else for someone whose only positive point is low-investment 6 move.

The other low-ranked units are folks like Alfred, Etie, and Boucheron, but those characters have a window where they will be used.

[samthedigital]

28 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I was mostly thinking in comparison to Jean (the next lowest) or Anna: there are of course playstyles where those two will be worse than Bunet. But players who are into investing into growth units heavily will get a fair bit out of them; they do have legitimate advantages over others once they get rolling.

The issue in my mind is that it seems like an impossible task to come up with an objective aggregate rating based on every single playstyle. There are players who won't spend any time investing into weak units, and there's the opposite end of that spectrum of course, but those are only the two extremes. Theoretically speaking Anna should be better than Bunet for about twice as many people as Jean with a lot of assumptions thrown in, but even that's not so clear to me.

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I don't think there's any type of player who will view Bunet as anything better than vaguely passable filler for a window after he joins.

This is mostly how I view him, but the benefit to using Bunet as vaguely passable filler is that we can use his SP pool and map actions on things that would be wasteful to better units. Effectively we can use him to help snowball our other units without any real downside since we get good replacement units later on to fill in the gaps. This was a lot more compelling as an argument to me before the well made SP become a nonissue practically speaking, but it's still applicable to some degree.

12 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Chloe's big advantage on the midgame Elusia/Solm crew is that she has Canter and they do not. So in part 1 she is an outstanding combat unit, in part 2 she is still a great combat unit and has Canter over those who would otherwise be better, and in part 3 she's... passable.

Chloe can actually scale really well into the late game provided she doesn't level too much as a Wyvern. Mage Knight Chloe can perform similarly to Citrinne provided there isn't anyone else to use the Spirit Dust on. I still think that she's a little overrated, but getting into that would take more effort than is worth; I still think that she's vaguely in the right spot.

[lenticular]

First, I want to say that I don't think that any scores here are "wrong", because I don't think that being "right" was ever the goal or even something that's possible. What we have is an aggregation of the opinions of the people who contributed to the thread, and I think we're better off if we don't even try to claim any measure of objectivity here.

Citrinne/Amber: I think that the Brodian units just come in at a really awakward time of the game. The Lythos and Firene units arrive early which makes them much better as investment targets since they can really start to snowball sooner. On the other hand, the later-arriving units from Solm and Elusia are that much better straight out of the box and are better if you don't want to invest. The Brodian units feel trapped in no man's land, neither one thing nor the other. They're not bad, per se, they just feel awkward. All of them except for Jade ended up right next to each other on the final list, which I suspect says a lot about how they all feel underwhelming in the same sort of way.

Yunaka/Zelkov: One advantage that Yunaka does have over Zelkov is her massively better res stat. This is relevant if you're doing any terrain-based avoid strat (either natural terrain or Corrin fog cloud), since mystic units can counter that pretty hard without good res. How much you value this is going to be down to personal preference and play style, but it is another advantage that Yunaka has over Zelkov beyond just availability.

Bunet/Jean: I agree that Bunet is worse than Jean. I think that Jean both a. has a higher ceiling and b. is going to be good in more playstyles. And in terms of floor, while Bunet might have a slight edge there, I don't think that's cut and dry either. There are definitely use cases for "another early game staff user where I don't actually care about his stats". Not that many use cases, but there aren't that many for Bunet either.

[samthedigital]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

The Lythos and Firene units arrive early which makes them much better as investment targets since they can really start to snowball sooner.

Which units do you have in mind specifically? Skimming through the old topics the only two Lythos/Firene units noted as being good investment targets that were rated above Brodia units were Chloe and Alear. Louis and Framme were seen as good early game units that fell off later on in the game, and Celine was seen in a similar light.

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

Bunet/Jean: I agree that Bunet is worse than Jean. I think that Jean both a. has a higher ceiling and b. is going to be good in more playstyles. And in terms of floor, while Bunet might have a slight edge there, I don't think that's cut and dry either. There are definitely use cases for "another early game staff user where I don't actually care about his stats". Not that many use cases, but there aren't that many for Bunet either.

If you care about opportunity cost then you're sacrificing that Miciaiah exp on a unit that's better and starts snowballing sooner. He doesn't really get going on his own merits; healing is pretty slow, and his main utility in my opinion (Chain Guard) helps even less for that. Bunet's floor is being a Reposition bot who can chunk enemies if you want to compare the two. If memory serves he can also one shot wyverns with a Hurricane Axe until later on in the game too. I'm also not confident that Jean would be good in more playstyles either since there's a lot of guesswork involved in trying to figure that one out.

[Bartozio]

Just going to drop my takes then:

For starters I want to mention that all of these are more nitpicks that huge disagreements. There's very few scores I'd change more than 1.5 points, but talking about units is fun, so I'm going to share all of them anyway:

Alear: Considering they're probably the easiest combat unit to get going in the early game because of Marth basically getting glued to them and the fact that they have some really good support builds for the late game makes me think they deserve a 9 tbh. Reclassing Alear to Martial Master basically gives you the best Lucina user you can get, and just keeping them as a Divine dragon gives you arguably the best Byleth user until Veyle joins at the end of the game.

Their growths are also on par with the other speedsters in the 8-9 scoring range, and considering Alear has the best SP situation in the game they should be coming into the Solm arc with some pretty good skills to compensate for the better bases some of those other units might have in case you're using them as a combat unit.

Louis: I think he's a bit high tbh. He's great during the Firene and Brodia arcs (though he starts getting some competition during the Brodia arc), but he really drops of when you enter Solm and tanking based on having good defense starts to become almost irrelevant. That's not a terrible performance or anything, but I think Vander is better during the time Louis is good, and his score is a full 2 points lower. I don't think the fact that Louis can do some filler combat during the mid to end game really justifies that difference, considering how many units you get who can fill that role better. I'd lower his score to at least a 6.

Goldmary: I mentioned it in the previous thread, but I don't think Goldmary deserves to be full point ahead of units like Rosado, Saphir and Lindon. She serves a similar role as being decent filler, but joining after several better units. Basically, she should get 5 just like those 3 did.

Alfred: I think people neglect how he's actually a pretty good unit during the Firene and Brodia arcs. On maddening Louis runs into the problem that sword units often won't attack him because they'd do 0 damage, whereas Alfred is tanky enough to survive a few hits but not soo tanky they avoid him. He's also one of the best Sigurd users during the early game, especially if you plan ahead to make good use of Momentum. Basically, I think he's fairly comparable to someone like Diamant (both struggle to find use once you enter Solm and Alfred is around for a lot longer) and yet they're a full 2 points apart. I'd give both a 5.

Etie/Alcryst: I honestly don't think Alcryst deserves to be more than a full point ahead of Etie.
If you're not planning to bring either of them to Solm, Etie has about as many chapters of being your sole archer as Alcryst does (depending on when you play the paralogues) and she can still pick up a steel bow and act like a secondary archer when he is around.
If you are planning to bring one of them to Solm, Etie has a much easier time grabbing Canter because of Alcrysts terrible SP situation and her better strength give her, imo, better build options than Alcryst having to gamble for luna procs. I do get how Alcryst having better bulk is an advantage for him, but I really don't think it justifies them being more than point apart.

Anna/Jean: I get that trainee units have a bad rep in other games, but I also think they're a lot better of in Engage. Realisticly speaking, you're fairly unlikely to take more than 6 early game units to the Solm arc, simply because of the deployment limit and the lack of master seals. Alear and Chloe are the two units considered to be really good for this, and both can reach their SP/level benchmarks by just using Marth for a few chapters (even if you train both this way, you can likely spare Marth for a chapter or two to someone else). Assuming you don't play either paralogue before you get Micaiah, that leaves you with 5 chapters of Micaiah and some chapters for Marth to distribute over at most 4 units.
Anna and Jean need about 2 chapters of using Micaiah to reach Canter and grow into their own as competent combat units. That's an investment, but it's one of resources you have available anyway (someone is using Micaiah for those chapters) and there's not many units who make better use of them. I don't have any experience using Jean, but I remember in my last playthrough I got Anna to lvl 11 as an Axe Fighter with Micaiah, and once I promoted and second sealed her to Mage Knight she was already one of my better units. I think she honestly deserves at least a 6, and potentially even a 7.

My main point though, is that this isn't Awakening or GBA emblem where getting a trainee unit going means surrounding an archer so your project unit can hit them repeatedly for exp. It just means your support unit is less bulky for a few chapters.

[SnowFire]

I think the combined chart is pretty good, overall.  I'll agree with others in this thread though that Citrinne is underranked.  (But I guess all the pro-Citrinne crowd turned up here?).

My major differences is that I think both Céline and Clanne are overranked.  Granted, not by a huge absolute degree, but given the clump in the 5-6 range, even being demoted by a single point is enough to put like 10 other characters above you.  They're both trying to do mixed damage, and this is just not a thing Engage is particularly friendly toward - their damage will be so, so much worse than focused physical or mage bruisers.  (And if you make Clanne a pure bruiser via early Second Seal shenanigans, he's one who comes online very late and requires special babying to catch up.)  They're certainly usable, but not particularly good.

 

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, SnowFire said:

They're both trying to do mixed damage, and this is just not a thing Engage is particularly friendly toward - their damage will be so, so much worse than focused physical or mage bruisers. 

Now you're getting me thinking... how many FE games ARE friendly toward mixed builds? Because it doesn't seem like any are, from my point of view.

[Barren]

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Now you're getting me thinking... how many FE games ARE friendly toward mixed builds? Because it doesn't seem like any are, from my point of view.

I can only think of FE12 assuming that you’re building your avatar in a way that can go Levin Sword Swordmaster/Paladin/Falcon Knight/Horseman. Of course that would include stat boosters you get throughout the game including the ones from the armory once you unlock lunatic reverse.

 

Robin and Corrin with a magic boon can also pull it off from their respective games but only if the rng blesses you.

 

Also from my experience I’ve managed to pull off Wyvern Lord Annette and Mortal Savant Yuri in my Blue Lions maddening run but those were very specific picks to perform well in those classes.

 

Other than that, I can’t think of much else really.

[samthedigital]

16 minutes ago, Barren said:

Robin and Corrin with a magic boon can also pull it off from their respective games but only if the rng blesses you.

Camilla is also worth a mention. There are also instances in games like SoV where having a magic weapon on a physical unit can be pretty good. Leif has his Prf weapon in FE5, but I don't know that any of those are good long term.

[Barren]

11 minutes ago, samthedigital said:

Camilla is also worth a mention. There are also instances in games like SoV where having a magic weapon on a physical unit can be pretty good. Leif has his Prf weapon in FE5, but I don't know that any of those are good long term.

I actually played Thracia not too long ago. Leif’s Light Brand was quite useful for me although I didn’t spam it all that much. I’ve gotten better use out of the King Sword but that was because it had Charm as it’s ability. Still, he needed a lot of babying to get off the ground because his base stats are quite low and so are his growths.

[SnowFire]

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Now you're getting me thinking... how many FE games ARE friendly toward mixed builds? Because it doesn't seem like any are, from my point of view.

I hesitate to mention it because I know you have strong opinions here, but...  Fates.  Corrin (as a Nohrian / Hoshidan Noble) and Camilla are just plain good, albeit slightly cheating by having above-average stats in general which helps make a mixed build sing.  However, it has merit even for characters not sporting busted stat spreads. Jakob, if left as a Butler, makes good use of both physical Shurikens/Daggers and the Flame Shuriken as a support unit for weakening enemies up while also having staff utility.  If he can't hustle out a KO, that's fine, he's still applying debuffs.  Also, Adventurers and Priestesses can make this work (well, in Conquest / Revelation; getting access to a Shining Bow in Birthright is annoying).  Physical bows hit weakness on high-Res flyers like Falcon Knights (covering for Nina / Sakura / etc.'s low Strength), while the Shining Bow gets used on enemy Wyverns and random enemies.  Now, this isn't to say it works everywhere; something like Swordmaster Odin with a Levin Sword is funny, but not exactly good.  But I'd say Fates' mixed damage options are respectable, and certainly better than Engage's.

[vanguard333]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:20 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Now you're getting me thinking... how many FE games ARE friendly toward mixed builds? Because it doesn't seem like any are, from my point of view.

The main one I can think of being Enlightened One Byleth being a sword & fist user that can also heal. Their healing isn't particularly good, but it doesn't interfere with their effectiveness as a sword/fist unit, and they make good use of 1-3 range Levin Sword+.

[Shadow Mir]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:33 AM, samthedigital said:

Camilla is also worth a mention. There are also instances in games like SoV where having a magic weapon on a physical unit can be pretty good.

Not sure I would agree on Camilla. Imho, it's better to just make her a Wyvern Lord as her stats are better suited for it. Even if you didn't, 21 str vs only 12 magic at base is laughably lopsided, especially considering the power gap between axes and tomes. And that gap only gets wider.

20 hours ago, SnowFire said:

I hesitate to mention it because I know you have strong opinions here, but...  Fates.  Corrin (as a Nohrian / Hoshidan Noble) and Camilla are just plain good, albeit slightly cheating by having above-average stats in general which helps make a mixed build sing.  However, it has merit even for characters not sporting busted stat spreads. Jakob, if left as a Butler, makes good use of both physical Shurikens/Daggers and the Flame Shuriken as a support unit for weakening enemies up while also having staff utility.  If he can't hustle out a KO, that's fine, he's still applying debuffs.  Also, Adventurers and Priestesses can make this work (well, in Conquest / Revelation; getting access to a Shining Bow in Birthright is annoying).  Physical bows hit weakness on high-Res flyers like Falcon Knights (covering for Nina / Sakura / etc.'s low Strength), while the Shining Bow gets used on enemy Wyverns and random enemies.  Now, this isn't to say it works everywhere; something like Swordmaster Odin with a Levin Sword is funny, but not exactly good.  But I'd say Fates' mixed damage options are respectable, and certainly better than Engage's.

I agree with Corrin, even if I consider them cheating. Camilla, on the other hand, I am not sold on. Her magic is low enough that it is seldom a worthwhile idea to use tomes (again, 12 magic vs 21 strength is a huge mismatch).

Edited October 27, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[samthedigital]

We've gone off track a bit discussing units in other games. Another thread is probably more appropriate for that.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:14 AM, samthedigital said:

The issue in my mind is that it seems like an impossible task to come up with an objective aggregate rating based on every single playstyle.

Oh, to be clear, I definitely agree; I wasn't proposing coming up with such a ranking. I was just observing that, given a bunch of people with differing playstyles weighing in on a thread like this, that I would expect Bunet to be the lowest-rated unit. That certainly doesn't mean individual people can't voice why they think Bunet should be higher. (I'm not even trying to weigh in on Bunet vs. Jean or Anna myself; I don't know how i feel personally.)

[Florete]

On 10/25/2023 at 3:33 AM, Bartozio said:

Etie/Alcryst: I honestly don't think Alcryst deserves to be more than a full point ahead of Etie.

I don't think Alcryst deserves to be above Etie at all lmao.

I guess it's just me, but Etie has consistently been a star player in my teams, whereas Alcryst just never pulled his weight.

While I do have some other changes I would make to a personal tier list, nothing stands out as so grossly incongruous with my own experience as Etie's position. She's the best bow user in the game imo.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Florete said:

I don't think Alcryst deserves to be above Etie at all lmao.

I guess it's just me, but Etie has consistently been a star player in my teams, whereas Alcryst just never pulled his weight.

While I do have some other changes I would make to a personal tier list, nothing stands out as so grossly incongruous with my own experience as Etie's position. She's the best bow user in the game imo.

Same. Honestly, Alcryst starts falling off right after the Brodia arc is over. Maybe I'm being too hard on him, maybe I am not. 

[Bartozio]

13 hours ago, Florete said:

I don't think Alcryst deserves to be above Etie at all lmao.

I guess it's just me, but Etie has consistently been a star player in my teams, whereas Alcryst just never pulled his weight.

While I do have some other changes I would make to a personal tier list, nothing stands out as so grossly incongruous with my own experience as Etie's position. She's the best bow user in the game imo.

I might have worded it badly, but I basically meant to just say I disagreed with the rating of these two. I haven't really used Alcryst long term yet, so I'm not too confident about how good he could be later on. I mostly just doubt he's much better than Etie overall, if he's even better at all.

In terms of the best bow unit in the game though, I don't really consider either of these two as real options. Fogado has a much easier time staying relevant and between his high speed and better magic he's a better user of the Radiant bow for killing wyverns or dealing chip damage to non-flyers. Warrior Anna is probably an even better user of the Radiant Bow and she can come with Canter into the Solm arc. And there's always options like Warrior Pannette with a killer bow if you really want to snipe down everything under the sun.