Book VIII Discussion Thread

[Mercakete]

On 7/16/2024 at 6:45 PM, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Not gonna lie, I'm surprised they didn't kill Buff Deer Dude in this chapter. Granted, they could kill him off later, but I expected it now. Hopefully he'll be one of the few surviving male OCs, though.

"Few" is sadly an overstatement. Not counting Kiran (who is up to the player, but I believe officially male, according to the physique of the stand-in version, and that one time during an early TT when he was referred to with masculine pronouns), Hrid is the only male character native to Heroes who hasn't died (apart from Eikpyrnir and Laeradr, whose fates haven't been fully revealed yet.) Even Alfonse died at least once (and became Lif, who is native to a parallel world set somewhat in the future, but is still Alfonse and now is in our reality, so he counts), and Elm died...3 times, I think? Before being revived once more by the last vestiges of Embla's power. Doesn't mean he didn't die, though. Multiple times. Ash confirmed this in Book 6.

Anyway, though I'm pretty sure Laeradr will be dead by the end of the book (though it's possible he survives and just snaps to his old self, I think it's more likely that he'll become kind again, but then die), Eikpyrnir has a shot at living. This is exactly because he didn't die at this juncture, during this chapter. He and Heidrun just sort of phased out of the story a la "we'll be over here; good luck" and exited stage left. With their story prominence gone, it's likely that they'll get to quietly slip by and survive the book since IS likes tragic (or boss-slaying) deaths. That requires story prominence. So, I think he counts as "defeated" right now, without having died. No venison here.

If this winds up being the case and IS' FEH division doesn't suddenly remember that they hate not killing men, then grats to Eikpyrnir for being the second official male character to not kick the bucket at some point during official FEH lore. It's an exclusive club. I almost feel like it deserves a minor celebration, it's such a rare thing.

[DefyingFates]

And now we learn Laeradr's motivation. The evil king in his past killed his family and he went mad wanting them back. I like the simplicity of this, because it's pretty relatable. Also I guess he's in a reverse Fafnir situation given the implication that the current Helping Hands are kids he "adopted" from other worlds as a stopgap until he count revive his native versions of them while Fafnir was stolen from his original family and wasn't allowed to go back. Okay, the parallel isn't as strong once I type it out, but that's what that reminded me of. And I suppose Eikthyrnir is either old enough to remember his original Yggdrasil or figured out he'd been kidnapped at some point. Good on Sharena being the first to remember his words, given Alfonse usually does 99% of the work in these plots.

Presumably Chapter 11 will be the Askrans going back to hear his side of the story before Laeradr assassinates Heidhr to stop her healing them... and him because he's a male OC and to be fair he's probably going to die defending her. Either that or this time his poison can't be cured by her, I guess he intentionally let her heal Kiran before? Anyway, a good chapter. I'm happy IS has kept the quality up so far (putting aside how Book 8 compares to traditional FE plots), here's hoping they don't mess up the ending!

[Etrurian emperor]

Oh yeah. The healing hands are adopted. I forgot that one. I assumed Laerdardr was just an alt from another world who had his healing hands killed, and who replaced this world's version of Laedardr and stole his kids. 

That also explains why I was a bit confused at the flashback. Ratatosk being kidnapped and used as a hostage for treatment I can get, but I'd wish any random king luck when trying to pull that with muscle boy or the drunk snake lady. 

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Oh yeah. The healing hands are adopted. I forgot that one. I assumed Laerdardr was just an alt from another world who had his healing hands killed, and who replaced this world's version of Laedardr and stole his kids. 

That also explains why I was a bit confused at the flashback. Ratatosk being kidnapped and used as a hostage for treatment I can get, but I'd wish any random king luck when trying to pull that with muscle boy or the drunk snake lady. 

Maybe the OG Healing Hands were non-combatants and Laeradr trained the replacements so they wouldn't be killed off again?

[Mercakete]

Finally playing through the chapter and... Dang. Alfonse going all caps at Laeradr was surprising. Dude basically never loses his cool. Also, my gosh I like Laeradr's design. Its inclusion of all that symbolry and asymmetry in such an orderly way is amazing.

Okay, Laeradr was commissioned for this assassination job, and is respecting client confidentiality. Hmmm I wonder if it was Veronica's mom? The lady was nearly killed, but not killed, and I found it weird that the Quieting Hands weren't trying to finish that job when they stressed the killing of their targets so much. O. "I see his desires fulfilled, and he sees mine fulfilled, you see." So, not Veronica's mom. Hmm must be that person that was referenced before. Hmm Heimdalr, maybe? The guy in charge of defending the bifrost (a mode of transport between the realms) working with the incarnation of the world-tree (another mode of transport between the realms) would make sense, especially given that we are definitely moving towards ragnarok. And, well, the valkyrie, einheijar, bifrost, and Heimdalr are a big part of ragnarok beginning. I kept speculating that that would be the theme of the next book, and that this one would be leading directly into it, and it really looks like it's going that way.

"But it seems he's unable to get me what I desire most, so I've been at a loss as to what I should do..." I wonder what it is that Laeradr wants. Could be the revival of Askr, since Askr comes from the tree, and Laeradr seems kind of family-oriented. "That is, until you came along." Oh? Hm. Hence the proposed deal, I guess. ... Oh. The player. Hrm.

Urdarbrunnr, the spring which nourishes the tree and is the source of its healing power. Sound important, so I'm noting it here (because it'll take some practice to get that name down.)

Anyway, so far, yeah, looks like Laeradr wants a family member back (and, sadly, seems to not consider his kids his family anymore) and wants the summoner to summon this person. (But, uh... We can only do this because of Briedablik, which was made by Askr, who came from the tree, which Laeradr is an incarnation of. So...this feels kind of circular and like any power we have should also be usable by Laeradr. Unless Briedablik was once a part of a greater power and its unique ability to summon heroes was removed, taking all of that particular power with it? ... I'm probably putting more thought into it than IS did.)

So, one theory is that his kids were attempts he made to bring this family member back, so he might see them as "as close as he could get, but still failures." That would explain the attitude shift (and the explanations given in-story. "If he found a way to revive that person, that could explain it.") Like, before he was settling for them, but now that he might be able to achieve what he really wants, he stopped caring about them. But dang, his offer to kill them (which he was already intending to do) was cold... Anyway, I also keep thinking of Askr. Is he the relative? Is someone else? I'd say, "tell me who it is," but none of the characters are demanding that yet. Also, "don't kill your kids. All you had to do was ask; I'm happy to reunite family (so long as this person isn't a calamity-bringer or something.) But the promise not to attack Askr or Embla is also nice, and yes, we'll take that antidote."

Also, uh, Laeradr, you tried to flippin' kill the summoner. Talk about a 180. I wonder if the guy only just recently realized that this plan could work. Kind of weird how Anna's all "how can we possibly do this?" Uh, we've summoned dead people before, you know. Lots of them, from other places and times. Also undead people.

Hmm so, that wicked king that he healed because he couldn't not heal people somehow got a hold of his kids and forced Laeradr to serve him? Not buying it. I get that it could work as a plot point (though it's still disjointed) but the story needs to have a plausible explanation of "how." It's not very believable right now. That said, I ddi wonder if that wicked king would return to the story somehow.

"I should be clear. It will not do to use your power of summoning to call from other worlds." Oh. Well, at least that solves that plot hole. So, it's the summoner himself who actually can do something... Well, the summoner is the player, and the player lives in the world from which the other worlds were made (that is, IS made the game, and we're from the same world as them.) What's he want us to do? Petition IS? Go for his kids in CYL? (That would still be summoning, though...) Draw fanart? Write fanfic? Get the time goddess who has a crush on us (and violated our souls to make a time-summoner sacrificial daughter) to turn back time for his kids so that they return?

"You have a power beyond even that of the creator" Okay, who? Does he mean Alfador? Is he the one who created this world in-lore?

Yep, poor tree guy was driven insane by grief. (I love this dire music, though.) The Askr trio figures that Eikpyrnir might know something (probably that all of them actually died and that the ones here now are just copies Laeradr made) and that the blue lady can maybe cure their poisoning. So... Yeah. I may need to retract my congratulations to Eikpyrnir for surviving if he's been dead this whole time. *siiiiiigh* Guess Hrid's just special for having been a male character who didn't die.

 

Edit: So, I realized a thing. (Paraphrasing Laradr's lines here.)

Laradr: I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't brandish your sword at me. It's annoying and pointless. You wouldn't be able to do anything against me with it.

Alfonse: ... You're right. A sword wouldn't be very effective here. *CYL version* You chop down trees with axes.

Edited August 21 by Mercakete

[DefyingFates]

8 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Edit: So, I realized a thing. (Paraphrasing Laradr's lines here.)

Laradr: I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't brandish your sword at me. It's annoying and pointless. You wouldn't be able to do anything against me with it.

Alfonse: ... You're right. A sword wouldn't be very effective here. *CYL version* You chop down trees with axes.

Good point! And something I thought back when Brave was revealed is that he'd do a lot better of a job dealing with Ratatoskr back in Chapter 1 too 😛