Nozomi Kasaki Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 How chaotic or un-chaotic-ish would the events of the games be if all of the characters know literally everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 It would be horrifyingly dystopian because of what omniscience does to free will. Consider: Alice and Bob are fighting each other. Alice chooses to feint left before slashing right. But Bob knows everything, so he knows this is coming, so he counters Alice's move. Except that Alice knows that he knows so she changes what she was going to do to counter Bob's counter. Which Bob knows she will, so he changes what he's going to do, and so on ad infinitum. There are basically three ways out of this bind. One is just to throw your hands up, declare that we have a paradox, and as such it was never possible to have two omniscient individuals to begin with. The second is to say that while they technically have all the knowledge, Alice and Bob are limited by the processing speed of their brains; they can't act on the knowledge because they can't think fast enough. Which is fine, except that this puts a meaningful limit on how much they can actually know, so is really just a fancier way of restating that they aren't omniscient after all. The third resolution is to say that they genuinely do know what's going to happen next, but they can't act on it. Free will is thrown out of the window. We're all just observers watching the world unfold around us, taking the actions that we are fated to take, knowing that tragedies are coming and that our loved ones will hurt and die, and not being able to do anything about it. There's a definite air of psychological horror going on here. The third option could make for an interesting art piece game. It's Fire Emblem, except you have infinite time rewinds. Whenever you miss an attack, your player character knows you were going to, so you rewind and try again. The future is laid bare before you like a painting. You can try as many times as you like and find the perfect strategy. Of course, your player character already knows the perfect strategy, but this is a game, so you the player get to figure it out. Except, that when you figure out the perfect strategy, you aren't actually allowed to do it. The game shows you one possible tragic future, invites you to explore countless alternative options, so you find the one you like best, commit to it, and then it doesn't happen and instead the game plays out exactly as you saw in the first place. With your kingdom fallen and your mother dead, and so on. Sorry, would-be hero, but just because you can see the future doesn't mean you can change it. This would not be a fun game to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 A lot of characters would have acted a lot differently if they could see the future. I think Eldigan would still end up marching to his grave in the exact same way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair General Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 7 hours ago, lenticular said: Sorry, would-be hero, but just because you can see the future doesn't mean you can change it. This would not be a fun game to play. It would be, for me.  But anyways, it might be interesting if it only worked outside of combat and it was limited towards the nobility, though. Like, you're well aware that someone is playing the genocide campaign on one of your allies and you know exactly what they're armed with. But the other guy knows that you're coming and has made an implicit agreement with someone else to sucker punch you several years ago...Which something that happened before you gained your powers of omniscience. You both receive one final vision of an potential outcome of the battle and plan your moves accordingly. The other guy gets spooked an retreats while your dudes are busy celebrating, because that's exactly what happened in your vision. 5 minutes later, he comes back with catapults and shit and now you're running from him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFire Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 7 hours ago, Armchair General said: It would be, for me. You are in luck! You can play the game Braid, which is basically this. It's only three dollars right now, even: https://store.steampowered.com/app/26800/Braid/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 They're not just game characters, they're actors! The FE characters know everything that will happen because they planned it together. We are all actors on the world's stage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 The real question is... But would you, as the player, know it all too (like have some sort of game mechanic that shows you what's going on their heads and the relevant stuff they know)? Or the characters would simply not say important stuff to each other, ever, since they all know everything already, but you would be there playing the game and not understand what the melting shit is happening, while every character seem to know what they're doing and what's happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 They would lose any and all investment in the struggles they are partaking in as they reach complete enlightenment and disconnect from material desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 13 hours ago, Jotari said: They would lose any and all investment in the struggles they are partaking in as they reach complete enlightenment and disconnect from material desires. If that happens to someone, is that what allows a gamer to control them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gommerfield Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 It seems like it would be pretty boring for active characters. This means there are no questions because the answer appears at the moment the question arises. And the future is predetermined. At this point, they just become bored spectators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 On 12/25/2023 at 2:45 AM, lenticular said: It would be horrifyingly dystopian because of what omniscience does to free will. What is free will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said: What is free will? When you just do what you want as long as it doesn't cost/require anything. Or when you have a will without doing anything to earn it. It seems like it would be pretty boring for active characters. This means there are no questions because the answer appears at the moment the question arises. And the future is predetermined. At this point, they just become bored spectators. No...I'm not sure...I guess it depends on your definition of know, but know usually isn't meant to mean something like actually experiencing in full. Like "I know your pain" is different from "I feel your pain". Or "I know how to fix that problem" isn't actually the same as "I have fixed your problem" until it is fixed. So the acts of the story would all need to be performed and characters would feel different things from those acts. Getting slashed with a sword is probably going to hurt some even if you've been slashed a few times before. Same with more positive things. I've eaten tons of roast chickens but I can't experience the taste even without actually having it in my mouth. It would still be boring, but I'm not sure it's completely spectator-like if you aren't alienated from your experiences. I guess you could argue that true omniscience would involve knowing how to stimulate your tastebuds to taste chicken without actually having chicken in your mouth though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 On 12/28/2023 at 6:30 PM, Original Alear said: When you just do what you want as long as it doesn't cost/require anything. Or when you have a will without doing anything to earn it. Buncha millennials. Back in my day, we only had hard-earned will. On 12/28/2023 at 6:30 PM, Original Alear said: I've eaten tons of roast chickens but I can't experience the taste even without actually having it in my mouth. Man, I love chicken. I'm excited to eat chicken again just from reading this. Roasty. On 12/28/2023 at 6:30 PM, Original Alear said: know usually isn't meant to mean something like actually experiencing in full. This feels like an actual theological discussion about God's omniscience. I do not recall the related terms, alas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 fyi Anonspeed i might be wrong about "know" and "omniscience" and something like that but i don't personally believe in omniscience anyway, so I think if they had complete omniscience that's just code for being completely deluded, like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.