Saint Rubenio Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: Eustace Winner amirte? 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: I mention Edgeworth once in this thread, and then this happens. What should I reference next? Berwick Saga. Duh. 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: Lang personally taunts you for quite a bit and the player gets the world's greatest line from Jeigan ever, so the stakes feel much more personal and gratifying when you finally take him down, and he's a classic slimebag who's evil in the silliest of ways that I always appreciate. It's weird to think how little time he actually has. Chapter 5 is not very much time at all, in most other FEs that's barely out of Banditland, maybe a couple bosses into Genericknightland. But since he's present in all the chapters up to that point, it ends up feeling like more. Pretty good show, all in all. 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: And after you release Dark Stones, you'll make enough enemies who'll agree with me. Nobody who doesn't already hate me for what I did to Seth the one time. 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: Tell me your thoughts on his hat. Gotoh's? It's fine. It's not as good as Wendell's or Boah's and Yodel (the other one) did his style of hat better. Definitely the best part of him, if nothing else. He doesn't deserve it. 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: Oh wait, Ruben's from Spain. Sucks to suck. America W. My friend who's been waiting for the game for 10 years is going to keep waiting a long time. Me? This is the whole reason I learned English lol On 6/18/2024 at 12:02 PM, Jotari said: Well, Ymir wasn't much to sneeze at characterwise in Shadow Dragon, but he definitely suffers from the "I'm here too" syndrome in New Mystery. Man, I can't even remember what his convos with Kris were about even though I definitely got them because I fielded him until end game. 26 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: What about the Mario bros from BSFE? They even make a cameo in the first game! They don't say much, but at least they're the "we fought and will die so the princess may live to save the world". In FE12, they just pop up completely out of nowhere and go "howdy!" and then have extremely mid supports. C'mon! We're right on the cusp of taking down Hardin and rescuing Nyna by the time I'm getting your late supports. You could've been so much more! Talk to each other! I know we're comparing this to Horace, but dammit! Yeah, while Horace is decidedly the biggest case because his SD chapter is art and then in NMotE he's just... a boring guy, there's a few other less extreme cases. Though I'll say - while I agree with the overall point, Leiden and Roberto do talk to each other. Belf's support with Sirius is excellent, and Leiden and Roberto's is... ehh, it's okay? It's basically just a way worse Trec and Noah, but hey, that one's very good so it's not that bad of a thing to be. Still, yeah, the high point of them is probably just when they desert and tag along with Camus despite the fact that they're nobodies who are likely just going to die. Ymir, yeah. Not as extreme a case as Horrace because his SD chapter isn't as good and you do still get some of his "scary giant popping out of nowhere in some really remote corner of the world, but he's actually really nice" in FE12, but damn the poor guy got all the availability issues. Edited June 19 by Saint Rubenio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: I would've been a much happier person in life had you never said this. I don't understand what shipping is at a fundamental level, but I know if I'm going to partake in it, then it's going to be with retiree aged NPCs. 3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: Does she cough on people and they receive poison status? No, she's not playable, just making a cameo in one story scene and a Blazing Blade style Karla chapter. If you hang out on the empty map for five turns she'll automatically receive the poison status though. 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: On 6/18/2024 at 1:53 PM, Jotari said: What is a 1/10 map for you? Yeah, fair. Even if I hadn't been broken down by Tear Rings interminable slowness, I would have been warp skipping that fucker in an instant. It's honestly probably not event that difficult, just tedious as you trudge through damaging swamp tiles (that you're deployed on!) and slowly bait in the enemy hoard one at a time. 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: Aren't you guys all excited that we finally get the best AA game to the west? I feel like a real winner. Nah, we already got Trials and Tribulations years ago. 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: Oh wait, Ruben's from Spain. Sucks to suck. America W. You don't consider Spain part of the west? 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: What about the Mario bros from BSFE? They even make a cameo in the first game! They did? When? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 9 hours ago, Jotari said: I don't understand what shipping is at a fundamental level, but I know if I'm going to partake in it, then it's going to be with retiree aged NPCs. Based 9 hours ago, Jotari said: You don't consider Spain part of the west? It's less about Shaky this time and more about Capcom. Once again they are localizing their new thing to six different languages, none of them being Spanish. Sucks to suck indeed, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said: Based It's less about Shaky this time and more about Capcom. Once again they are localizing their new thing to six different languages, none of them being Spanish. Sucks to suck indeed, I guess. Well, it's not like there much of a market for it. It's only the second most widely spoken language in the world... 13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Ymir, yeah. Not as extreme a case as Horrace because his SD chapter isn't as good and you do still get some of his "scary giant popping out of nowhere in some really remote corner of the world, but he's actually really nice" in FE12, but damn the poor guy got all the availability issues. Okay, let's just go through all the Paralogue characters. *Frey: Commits suicide in Shadow Dragon. Gets the novelty if actually being alive in New Mystery, which is fun in itself. I'll call this a draw. *Norne: Okay, let's be honest, she's complete nothing in both. New Mystery didn't do her any dirty because there's no lower you can go than random village girl only present if half your army is dead. *Athena: Funny voice in Shadow Dragon and nothing else. New Mystery retains the funny voice matching Shadow Dragon, gives her prologue availability, then shafts her until half way through the game with the same stats. So, not shafted in personality but definitely shafted in gameplay. *Horace, already discussed, great in Shadow Dragon, done very dirty in New Mystery. *Etzel, pretty great in Shadow Dragon too, with his dead wife and all. Doesn't do anything of note in New Mystery, but I'm okay with that specifically because they don't lean on his dead wife again, so it can feel like he has more going on on his life than being a widow. Like, she's still naturally talked about in his base convo with Kris, but the mood is different from the desperation in the previous game and his recruitment ties him to Kahdein with no mention of his wife. *Ymir, already discussed, not great in both but one of the worst sufferers of everyone is here random recruitment. *Nagi, appropriately mysterous and boring in both. Definitely worse in New Mystery as the mystic loses its impact when its done again with no extra details. Most interesting thing about her is that Marth doesn't remember meeting her in Shadow Dragon. Edited June 20 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Jones Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 Be honest. How long did you think I was gonna take before the next update? Replies: Spoiler On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: I will use this image from now on whenever I approve of something. On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: Berwick Saga. Duh. Guys! Kaga and Maeda finally got on good terms with each other! They're best friends now, and Nintendo is releasing all of Kaga's games on the Switch! And then IntSys gets cancelled. You know exactly why. On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: 's weird to think how little time he actually has. Chapter 5 is not very much time at all, in most other FEs that's barely out of Banditland, maybe a couple bosses into Genericknightland. But since he's present in all the chapters up to that point, it ends up feeling like more. Pretty good show, all in all. It's a good thing bosses get so much screentime. 7 chapters worth of "I must retreat"! On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: Nobody who doesn't already hate me for what I did to Seth the one time. Yeah, that's a good example of when I'd use the Eustace Winner Trophy. On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: Me? This is the whole reason I learned English lol You knew this exact day would come. Congratulations. Now go away. Back to Spanish Land you go. On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: Yeah, while Horace is decidedly the biggest case because his SD chapter is art and then in NMotE he's just... a boring guy, there's a few other less extreme cases. SD fans when the armor man isn't in anyone's top 10 FE characters list (people like him as much as FE12 does) On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: Though I'll say - while I agree with the overall point, Leiden and Roberto do talk to each other. Belf's support with Sirius is excellent, and Leiden and Roberto's is... ehh, it's okay? It's basically just a way worse Trec and Noah, but hey, that one's very good so it's not that bad of a thing to be. Still, yeah, the high point of them is probably just when they desert and tag along with Camus despite the fact that they're nobodies who are likely just going to die. I'm fine with the White Knights. Could've been better, but I suppose I won't hold the remake with 5000 characters to extreme standards when SD was shat on so much for not having any. But what the fuck? Macellan and Dolph deserve so much better. Seriously, that gets me mad. And then you have Cain and Abel who really should've said something together. Hell, the context of Fe12 could've been used to have one of the only Christmas cavs supports that isn't incredibly boring, but no! We just get Caeda and Malicia! Thanks game! At least give something for Roger if you're gonna go the funny no bitches ship direction. On 6/19/2024 at 12:52 PM, Saint Rubenio said: mir, yeah. Not as extreme a case as Horrace because his SD chapter isn't as good and you do still get some of his "scary giant popping out of nowhere in some really remote corner of the world, but he's actually really nice" in FE12, but damn the poor guy got all the availability issues. What about your favorite character Malice? You wish she came in busting through a wall in chapter 12, suplexing a Fire Dragon? On 6/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said: I don't understand what shipping is at a fundamental level, but I know if I'm going to partake in it, then it's going to be with retiree aged NPCs. I got a great idea. Don't do it at all!! On 6/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said: No, she's not playable, just making a cameo in one story scene and a Blazing Blade style Karla chapter. If you hang out on the empty map for five turns she'll automatically receive the poison status though. Mr Funnyman over here. On 6/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said: Yeah, fair. Even if I hadn't been broken down by Tear Rings interminable slowness, I would have been warp skipping that fucker in an instant. It's honestly probably not event that difficult, just tedious as you trudge through damaging swamp tiles (that you're deployed on!) and slowly bait in the enemy hoard one at a time. I'd say it's probably not even possible. What the fuck were they thinking!? I HAD to reload a save to redesign my team around warp skipping this map because I literally could not beat this map. Like how? The ENTIRE map is swamp! Dragons cut defense. Harpies kill your fliers, and funny boss man earthquakes your already poisoned army. He fucking OHKO'd my healers... I don't think you could make a worse map even if you TRIED! Dude, I had 3 move units there, and they had ZERO MOVE!!!! On 6/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said: Nah, we already got Trials and Tribulations years ago On 6/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said: You don't consider Spain part of the west? I don't like to consider Spain at all. On 6/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said: They did? When? I'll explain at the risk of being a stupid loser. I was just referring to Macellan and Dolph. On 6/20/2024 at 2:01 AM, Jotari said: *Frey: Commits suicide in Shadow Dragon. Gets the novelty if actually being alive in New Mystery, which is fun in itself. I'll call this a draw. *Norne: Okay, let's be honest, she's complete nothing in both. New Mystery didn't do her any dirty because there's no lower you can go than random village girl only present if half your army is dead. *Athena: Funny voice in Shadow Dragon and nothing else. New Mystery retains the funny voice matching Shadow Dragon, gives her prologue availability, then shafts her until half way through the game with the same stats. So, not shafted in personality but definitely shafted in gameplay. *Horace, already discussed, great in Shadow Dragon, done very dirty in New Mystery. *Etzel, pretty great in Shadow Dragon too, with his dead wife and all. Doesn't do anything of note in New Mystery, but I'm okay with that specifically because they don't lean on his dead wife again, so it can feel like he has more going on on his life than being a widow. Like, she's still naturally talked about in his base convo with Kris, but the mood is different from the desperation in the previous game and his recruitment ties him to Kahdein with no mention of his wife. *Ymir, already discussed, not great in both but one of the worst sufferers of everyone is here random recruitment. *Nagi, appropriately mysterous and boring in both. Definitely worse in New Mystery as the mystic loses its impact when its done again with no extra details. Most interesting thing about her is that Marth doesn't remember meeting her in Shadow Dragon. Frey's support is somewhat decent. Norne's main nieche when it comes to supports is that they had apparently met as children, so at least there's a little more Kris backstory than" muh grandpa". Athena's support was personally forgettable for me. I don't even remember what it was about, which is a shame, because I wanted to learn more about Archanean Russia. The main thing of note is that her supports are oddly fast when it comes to getting them. Just thought it was interesting to point out as a support hunter. I guess Athena gets some extra screentime in one of the "DLC maps" of FE12, funnily enough the one where you play as the bad guys. Horace was EXTREMELY underwhelming in FE12 when it came to supports and jointime, although he was a decent prepromote unit gameplay wise. That said, he's really fucked. What did they do to him? It's Horover. Etzel's fine in both games, but I don't like him because he has a monocle, and that makes me think of British people. When it comes to support, I mostly just remember that my translation just has him refer to any Archanean deity as God, which always feels odd to see in FE. I did like the support overall though. Also Wendell is cooler. You won't make me use Etzel. Ymir is a nothing burger. Sad. Nagi is odd in that she's just there in FE12, but is clearly supposed to be important to a degree. She is extremely useful gameplay wise, although she's pretty frail if you don't drill grounds her. Her supports, like her character, tells you very little. Wish there was a little more to her. Chapter 7: The Strongest Man In The Continent Spoiler This is the chapter where you encounter the strongest man in the continent. Chapter Info: Spoiler Note: Deployment: 10 Units This chapter is the first of many in which you face off against the strongest man in the continent. The cave tile in this chapter gives you a physic if a unit ends their turn on it The cave is guarded by an ambush spawning Fire Dragon who appears when you get close enough to the cave You obtain 2 new units for this chapter, both starting in the mid-eastern part of the map, near the center of the large forest. It is possible to kill Astram on turn 1. The game doesn't consider the possibility that one can somehow immediately kill the strongest man in the continent, so the cutscene where Astram speaks to his army will still trigger. I have surgery in a few days. This has nothing to do with the chapter, although it might affect the speed at which this thread continues. Whether it is faster or slower depends on how much pain I'm in afterwards. New Units: Navarre: 23 HP 9 STR 16 SKL 16 SPD 7 LCK 8 DEF 0 RES [Lvl 8 Myrmidon; C rank Swords] Navarre is the biggest showcasing of what makes FE12 more balanced than FE11 when it comes to classes regarding the weapon triangle. As a sword unit in a game with a moderate amount of axe units, his weapon rank bonuses fare far better for him now than in FE11 where he is more often than not punished by being a sword unit constantly facing off against lance enemies. If reclassed as a cavalier, Navarre's bases will be 11 on all his primary stats (STR, SPD, DEF), making him slightly better than Frey in the bases department, although Frey has more SPD and DEF growth. Feena (Phina): 16 HP 2 STR 2 SKL 13 SPD 8 LCK 5 DEF 0 RES [Lvl 1 Dancer; E rank Swords] Feena cannot be reclassed. She can no longer use the rapier like she could in FE3 Enemy Stats: Maniac: Hero: Axe: 29 - 30 Might Sword: 29 - 30 Might Thief: [20] - 21 Might Hunter: Steel: [17] - 18 Might Silver: [21] - 22 Might Cavalier: 23 - [24] Might Mage: 18 - 19 Might Knight: Riderbane: 22 - 23 Might Killer Lance: 23 -24 Might Fire Dragon: 32 - 33 Might Average Speed: 12 & 17 (thieves) Ch 1-3's average speed ranges between 9 and 10 (potential to double untrained 7th platoon). Ch 4-7 averages reaches between 11 and 12 as the primary enemy speeds to factor in (promoted enemies and thieves are generally outliers). The optional Fire Dragon has an alarmingly high speed of up to 19 even in maniac mode. In a scenario where none of your units have managed to reach 16+ speed (most initial flier units should easily be able to reach threshold as well as most Kris builds), Sirius can be reclassed as a hero for 17 speed. Hero Sirius will be capable of doubling all non-thief basic enemies in the map (and armorslayer can kill armor reinforcements easily or forged axes for optimal hit rate in forest if needed), however draco Sirius is also a very useful unit for this chapter when it comes to killing the escaping thieves quickly. Use whichever depending on what you are lacking (raw speed vs flier utility). Regardless, Siriius is an especially powerful tool for this chapter, so hopefully you didn't lose him by now in an ironman, like a foolish Shaky Jone did. If the heroes do not roll 21 speed, Sirius will avoid being doubled by them at base for those who wish to bait them out for optional xp right before seizing (assuming you have a save point usage to offset their high crit chance against him). Otherwise, Sirius will need to have gained a speed growth at least once prior (his growths are high, so this isn't unlikely). Alternatively, you could make him a sword master for 19 base speed, although this doesn't provide much for him past the potential ability to avoid being doubled by heroes, given the hero class is stronger and bulkier with the option to wield axes. For fans of Darcoknight Wendel back in Shadow Dragon, it is worth noting that he does have 16 speed in this game as one, meaning he will double all the basic non-thief enemies in this map at base. The class is far less optimal for him (and in general) in FE12 than in FE11, but if you wish to employ what was once the greatest fear of Grust and Dolhr, this is the map to do it in. If the hunters roll the lower end for their DEF and HP (30 HP, 2 DEF), Wendell can 1RKO them with a steel lance. Otherwise, you can simply forge the lance by a small amount or give him a shard or 2. Keep in mind that his low skill combined with a large portion of fight against them taking place in a giant forest means you will most likely have somewhat poor hit rates, at least for DSFE standards. Generally, this map is where you want your fliers the most in, but be wary of the hunters. If you are using at least 2 of Palla, Catria, and Caeda, and your Kris is promoted, you can reclass him/her to a draco and you should be fine for this map. Otherwise, draco Sirius, Arran, and even draco Wendel can be utilized to make do. Caeda is nearly guaranteed to have 20 SPD by now for those using her, although thieves have 17, meaning you will not be able to double with any non promoted units. Given the lack of early master seals and the general stigma against promoting early, especially in this game, the most common use of "Flier Emblem" would be a draco Kris/Palla carry combined with draco Sirius and potentially Arran, although he will not double anyone whereas Wendell can. Having any draco reach 21 speed will make killing thieves significalty easier, although otherwise, you'll need to be strong enough to OHKO, most easily accomplished by a Kris with a silver lance, although if Kris was not trained in lances, Palla is likely a better choice to hone in on during the chapters preceding this. Wendell is the best choice. Use Wendell. He has a cool hat. Average Might: 23 The Hunters might seem surprisingly weak, but they mainly serve to prevent the player from cleaning house with a few favored fliers such as draco Kris or Palla. That said, it is actually uncommon that they will OHKO you if you are trained (unless you're Caeda), so relying primarily on fliers is not that risky. Excluding the Heroes and Fire dragon, the map's enemies don't hit too hard. The main worry when it comes to being OHKO'd are the armors, as they have a killer lance and a ridersbane, although given 2/3rds of the map being 100 acre woods and the rest being observed by the strongest man in the continent, cavaliers are not the best class to be bringing to this map in the first place. Lunatic: Hero: Axe: 30 - 31 Might Sword: 31 - 32 Might Thief: 26 Might Hunter: 22 - 23 Might Cavalier: [30] - 31 Might Mage: 24 -25 Might Knight: Riderbane[+]: 28 - [29] Might Killer Lance[+]: 29 - [30] Might Fire Dragon: 34 Might Average Speed: 13 & 19 (Thieves) Hero Sirius at base barely avoids being doubled by the Fire Dragon who has monstrous speed of 20. The heroes can potentially spawn with up to 23 speed, meaning that if you wish to bait them out for the purpose of gaining last minute xp before seizing (or distracting them to a given loaction with a strong draco unit, primarily useful in a chapter later on), you would need a unit of at least 20 speed by now. In the best case scenario, the player has a 20+ SPD draco Kris who can chip multiple heroes on enemy phase or even kill some on their own. Otherwise, you will likely need a trained peg unit who can survive at least 1 hit. Even swordmaster Sirius at base can be doubled by a hero if they roll 23 SPD Dracoknight Wendell avoids being doubled by enemy thieves and will almost always double mages and cavaliers, although he won't be able to double hunters at base unless he is given a speedwing or speed potion/rainbow potion (or lucky event). Basic Threshold: 16 SPD 16 speed allows one to double some basic enemies such as cavaliers and mages while preventing you from being doubled by enemy thieves. Optimal Threshold: 20 SPD If at least 1 unit can reach 20 SPD, preferably as a dracoknight, they will make the map much easier in the long run. Given the incredibly low defenses of many enemies in this map, being able to double often makes it easy to 1RKO, and given the time sensitivity of the map regarding droppables, being able to rush the enemy is vital for obtaining as many rewards as you can before any thieves can escape. 20 SPD allows you to avoid being doubled by heroes for high xp gains. Keep in mind that the boss of the map has 24 speed, meaning you would actually need 21 speed to be completely safe against him, athough 20 is already a lot to ask for, especially given that dracoknights give 0 SPD promo gains from pegasus knight. Similarly, if you manage to cap your draco class speed this early on, this would make killing thieves extremely easy, although this is generally an unrealistic expectation to have past flier Krises or those who gave a significant amount of xp to Caeda throughout the prologue. Average Strength: 26 and 31 Silver bow wielding hunters will most likely OHKO all of your fliers except for Kris if they're tanky enough or potentially decent Pallas (stat booster pumping will also change survival of other candidates) Otherwise, they're among the weakest enemies in the map, although still capable of OHKO'ing Feena The 31 avaerage mainly comes from the heroes, as the main other enemies with that might are cavaliers with armors coming relatively close to it. With lances though, many of these enemies who use sword will go down to 28 might, once again emphasizing the usefulness of fliers on this map, given the main other classes that use lances being armors and cavaliers, neither being a good class for this map (ridersbane plus forest map). Given that thieves have 19 speed, they will likely double a sizeable portion of your army. Try to use lance units to mitigate the damage to 23 might * 2 or use fast classes such as mercenary to reach at least 16 speed if possible. Tl;dr: Try to have at least 1 OP flier by now with 20+ speed and enough HP/DEF to survive one hunter's effective bow. It will make your life much easier. Review: Spoiler Pros: You get to fight the strongest man in the continent. The enemy classes and positioning works well with the forest element of the chapter, incentivizing clever usage of fliers to traverse the map and use efficient play to rout the enemy before the thieves can escape while avoiding the hunters and saving the new units fighting for their lives, one of whom can help your best flier make quick progress on the upper half of the map before the reinforcements can overwhelm them. The reinforcements add a decent element of challenge to the map while not being unfair ambush spawns that could easily reach the player Astram's squad of heroes prevent the player from camping the reinforcements and they're utilized in an effective way regarding thieves using their range to prevent the player from attacking them without immediately leaving the map (the player could potentially use a rescue to run in and kill them only to be rescued away if they are desperate to obtain a particular reward). (The heroes area also admittedly quite fun to kill for early promo xp) Cons: You have to fight the strongest man in the continent. The map largely taking place in a forest means you will be spending many turns walking very slowly if you are not a flier (no, you can't turn your entire army into fliers, there is a cap). After dealing with most enemies, you might spend multiple turns just trying to move most of your to the boss's location, or potentially all the way south to team up against the dragon only to move BACK up to the boss's location, wasting a dozen or more turns. Moreover, you will be losing 10 hit rate for a large chunk of the map. The chapter is heavily reliant on powerful fliers when it comes to obtaining all the rewards, essentially forcing players to play around funneling xp into certain units or else be punished with losing potentially useful items and an overall more unforgiving map. Palla is at least a safe powerful flier that isn't difficult to train, but I'm allowed to throw professionalism away whenever I want to say that forcing me to use Palla is a crime in its own worth 5 cons. Ruben, agree with me. The Fire Dragon can very easily lead to a cheap kill as he is an ambush spawn with an alarmingly high speed stat, meaning that even if the player knew of their location, they might be caught off guard by their sheer might. Saving Navarre is notorious among FE fans due to how quickly he dies in higher difficulties, potentially dying as early as turn 1. Given that Feena is the game's dancer, the player is much more likely to use rescue on her, and wasting 2 rescues here when you've most likely just wasted 1 more use to skip ch6x is something one might be too hesitant to do. Note that many pros and cons are direct contrasts to each other. Personal Commentary: This segment will largely be me showcasing multiple sc's while making occasional elaborations of pros and cons, although this will provide less information than other commentaries overall. The pros and cons generally explain all one needs to know of the quality of this map, while I'm mainly using this segment to provide images to exemplify said points if you need them or wish to see Draco Wendell. More detail on the critical analysis will be left on the rating summary. Spoiler These come from my maniac ironman, in which I had a somewhat slow, but very strong Kris. Despite Kris's solid skill stat combined with his weapon advantage, I did resort to moderately increasing the javelin's hit rate to guarantee that I could kill enemy thieves (who in this example was NOT in the forest tile). On lunatic mode, you'll likely need to forge javelins just to ensure that you can OHKO thieves from range if you wish to kill thieves while being capable of countering hunters, assuming you can survive a silver bow hit. Otherwise, you're far better off relying on silver lances for a generally free kill, most easily accomplished with a lance focused Kris or Palla. (any sc's with Dord come from my recent Lunatic ironman) These sc's are taken on turn 1. Although I didn't sc the process in any of my runs, the general strat is that you use rescue on Feena and give Kris 2 free movements on turn 1. Because dracoknights have an enormous movement stat of 10, this allows them to reach the very top of the forest zone almost instantaneously. Oftentimes you'll be choosing between killing thieves who can target Navarre vs thieves who are on the verge of retreating to Astram's squad very early on. In this situation, Kris kills the thief blocking Navarre's way, allowing for Navarre to barely run out of the eastern enemies' range (except for 1 hunter) while being able to take a vulnerary for after the hunter's shot. This also allows for me to swap out Kris's weapon back to the javelin so he can counter the hunter who can now reach him (you can attack from another tile if you need to kill this thief and cannot survive a hunter). This does lead to a downside regarding the northmost center thief who already nears his escape on turn 2. He is reachable by a javelin, although it is very difficult to OHKO thieves with a javelin on lunatic, so either you pray that you have an incredibly strong draco by now, or you use 2 javelins from different areas barely out of the heroes' range to kill him. It is difficult, but doable, and I personally find it to be a cathartic experience overall, even if I am appalled that I have to use Palla when pirate Wrys is right there. Luckily, these ranges are just separated enough to where it's feasible to clear out said enemies without being in range of many threats while being in just the right spots for potential openings the following turn (by turn 3, I've reliably killed all the hunters in my lunatic ironman). The thieves below her do not attack, as they are carrying items that they are prioritizing running off with, although she would survive at least 1 hit if they suddenly decided to be hostile. Unfortunately due to me playing slightly safer than normal, as well as trying to ensure that I save Navarre while having lost Sirius back in ch5, I did end up having to rescue Kris out of Astram's range after eating the angelic robe thief alive. This does mean that I had already used 4 rescues by now (1 for Ogma, 1 for 6x skip, 1 for Feena, and 1 here). The only defense I can properly give here is that you have hammerne, meaning you can and probably should use at least 1 use on rescue, as rescue is one of the most useful tools for making difficult maps and rescue objectives MUCH easier, rewarding each instance you can save up on it for future uses. Having a few obligatory uses is annoying and arguably a very cheap way to force experienced players to have a limited supply of them, although it at least gives ranked players trying to save all units a reason to carefully consider each use while hopefully getting them out of the hoard mentality regarding hammerne. That said, hoarding is also vital given just how rare yet powerful rescue is, so you don't feel foolish for not using it if you don't feel that you have to. In this instance, I knew that I could afford to waste an extra one for a powerful stat booster. While I love rescue in FE12, I do get somewhat annoyed by chapters that feel like I have no choice but to use it, many of which happen early on in the game. After chapter 10, it's fairly doable to simply never use rescue again.....until the final few chapters, but we'll get to that when we get there. And of course, I hate hammerne because it's locked on that stupid bi- Back to the maniac ironman, here's an instance of my basic pegs playing a majority of the early turns while Kris is doing all the thief killing up north. Once again, Navarre can be traded items from a nearby flier while it can be assumed that the AI will naturally target Palla. Because this is maniac, she will survive the hunter's steel bow, and Caeda is baiting out one of the few thieves who is aggressive. You can see that most of my pegs aren't highly trained, but they can certainly get the job done as long as you are careful and make proper use of shards. Even though Catria is seemingly frail, her lance rank reduces the thieves' might by a fair bit, so she survives 2 attacks, and the rest of my army is finally making progress reaching something. Luckily, one of the master seal thieves takes a while before he can escape, so you can afford to temporarily have some fliers aide against the regular enemy waves after the first 2 turns, although you always have to be wary of where your fliers are to ensure that you don't let any of them get away in the ensuing chaos. Maniac is generally much more forgiving while still retaining the general challenge the map wishes to provide through its gimmick, and I would say I slightly prefer the maniac version, primarily due to it being easier to save Navarre, making it more viable to let fliers move up and down depending on what situation is more urgent at each given turn (Navarre vs running thieves). On lunatic, it's pretty difficult to get your fliers to kill any escaping thieves on turn 1 as it feels more like "kill Navarre thief turn 1. Kill master seal thief + 1 other thief turn 2. Realize the angelic thief is already at the exit point turn 3 and cry". Point is, I've personally experienced a few different ways to go through the map on maniac, whereas I almost always play the first few turns of lunatic the exact same way. It almost makes the map mindless nowadays as it's all a pattern to me. Of course, there always are some players the player can have control over how to approach the map. If you do simply rescue both Navarre and Feena on turn 1, the fliers can simply focus only on the thieves and make it much easier to get all the rewards, although I imagine very few are content with immediately eating up 2 rescue uses, and discarding the element of what is the chapter title's namesake is rather pathetic. You could kill the 1st master seal thief on turn 1 with Kris if you kill the thief in front of Navarre with someone else, although given that you used Feena to dance Kris for him to even reach that high so early, Navarre's only realistic method of living would be to land a critical hit on the first aggressive thief, and I don't think anyone is going to vouch for crit rigging turn 1 as valid map design. On the bright side, here's proof that FE12 does care about Wendell fans. See? It just works! Here's Wendell's raw bases as a dracoknight. And here's the speedwing I bought for him. I did end up trading Wendell's personal weapon to Ryan for a bit to show off some fun play in my old man run (+male mage Kris run). I will say that for a promoted unit who has WTA and has a forged weapon, 85 is not that great of a hit chance. For Wendel, he often reached 70s hit, which for this game is pretty bad, showcasing the problems of having most of the map take place in this forest biome. Other than that, I don't have too much worth sharing. There's still the entire turn 3, 5, and 7 wave, which I do find fun to repel against, but it's pretty easy to imagine. The main hard part comes through the mage. It is possible to stand in a spot where you can bait them out on the turn they appear, but it's more common to simply kill them the turn after on enemy phase, potentially using pure waters to dampen the blow with your fliers while they move left and right to kill mages and thieves. The cavaliers quickly reach the forest, but then become incredibly slow, so they're not too overwhelming. Armors and their killer lance make you want to player phase them so it's not all EP with the reinforcements. I don't have too much to add. They work. The dragon is either a simple kill or they simply killed you. And this could be tied with the most boring part of the map that is walking through this gigantic forest allll the way to the throne. You can't traverse through any other path, as Astram's squad completely surrounds the western area, which does feel like a detriment to the map given that there's no option or split path going on in this rather large map. Last thing worth noting is the boss himself. He is faster than even the promoted heroes, having 24 speed in lunatic mode. Using a forged levin sword, he can completely obliterate most of your army. Even with the RES of pegs, I've often seen all my fliers be 1RKO'd by him if I chose to fight with them. This is why the best method of killing him is using the Axe Boy Triangle Attack ™️. This isn't a joke. It's an objective truth. In all honestly, it probably is a legit method to defeating the boss and a good justification for using all 3 of the big boys. Given how dodgy the boss is, and for either those who don't trust growth rates or may even be doing a 0% growths run, the axe trio can easily make short work of bosses, particularly useful for this chapter. It's also incredibly satisfying for an axe unit to have 100 hit against a boss thief with a sword. As for the strongest platoon in the continent, I always like trying to kill as many of them as I can before seizing with Marth. Once again, the Triangle Attack is a pretty effective way of killing these strong continents for major xp. Rating: 6/10 Spoiler Nearly every aspect/element of this map serve as both a positive for strategic map design and a detriment for the player regarding limited playstyles. Astram's heroes are a well done threat that can work both narratively to emphasize the might of Hardin's new army while forcing old allies to turn their blade on you while preventing players from camping the reinforcements, but that in turn creates a problem where the map is essentially blocked off by 1/3 and the player is forced to play almost exclusively through the forest, which makes its own problems regarding reduced hit and slow movement for infantry. The map serves as an ultimate flier puzzle map with the forest nerfing the moves of hunters to make Flier Emblem more effective, but it's also practically forced on the player to go around the map 1 specific way, possibly feeling obligated to train specific units in advance JUST for this chapter. The Fire Dragon is a neat optional boss in theory, granting the player an early physic staff if they enter the cave that is is guarding, but being an incredibly fast ambush spawn can be very cheap for players who don't know it's coming or expect it to be as strong as it is when it attacks. And perhaps the most drastic example, Navarre and Feena can be a fun rescue mission if you're willing to use at least 1 rescue and have fliers barely reach the thieves before they can kill Navarre, trading vulneraries and possibly shards to increase his odds of survival, getting him to barely outrun the hunters as the rest of your team reach to his aide after some turns, but many despise that he dies so quickly on maniac and above, and forcing the player to use any amount of rescues can easily be seen as cheap and unfair (especially when I claim that being able to warp skip does not excuse bad maps from being ranked as low as they are). Overall, I'd say that for a map that sounds as tedious as a forest map with a rescue mission element to it, I personally feel that the positives do outweigh the negatives by just enough to grant it at least a 6. Personally, I've had moments where I'd be comfortable giving it a 6.5 or even a 7, although I'm well aware that I should be putting bias aside when it comes to a map that begs you to spam rescue when you almost definitely just wasted a rescue on 6x. It's an annoying map in many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: I'd say it's probably not even possible. What the fuck were they thinking!? I HAD to reload a save to redesign my team around warp skipping this map because I literally could not beat this map. Like how? The ENTIRE map is swamp! Dragons cut defense. Harpies kill your fliers, and funny boss man earthquakes your already poisoned army. He fucking OHKO'd my healers... I don't think you could make a worse map even if you TRIED! Dude, I had 3 move units there, and they had ZERO MOVE!!!! You forgot to mention the witches. 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: I guess Athena gets some extra screentime in one of the "DLC maps" of FE12, funnily enough the one where you play as the bad guys. Etzel also got some extra love in a DLC Map, where he services as your only healer even though he's a prepromote. 2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: Oi. This map. Before reading what you have to say, I must confess, very mixed feelings. The fleeing thieves with really desirable loot, including something needed for endgame, does give the chapter a distinct feeling of purpose, there is something you need to achieve and efforts need to be done to get them. The drgaon that spawns in the west also gives a legit mini boss more imposing than most actual bosses in the series that ties up half your army. But the chapter is seriously brought down by just how damn hard it is to keep Nabarl and Phina alive with inflated enemy stats. Lowly thieves should not be kicking the ass of someone as cool as Nabarl that hard. Honestly a lot of it feels like a rng fest, like, you absolutely need to get crtiicals on the right attack on the right turn to eliminate the necessary enemy. I think one of the reasons I didn't have any Rescue charges left by Khadein was because I used at least one of them here getting Phina to safely (probably even both charges after Nabarl was pegged by enough arrows). And, of course, this all happens in forests too, which makes moving more of a pain and makes surviving more of a rng fest. 3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: give here is that you have hammerne, meaning you can and probably should use at least 1 use on rescue, as rescue is one of the most useful tools for making difficult maps and rescue objectives MUCH easier, rewarding each instance you can save up on it for future uses. Hammerne works on staffs....how the hell did I not know that. I would have used it 3/3 on rescue. Though I guess for the purposes of my Use Everyone Challenge Maniac Mode playthrough I wouldn't have been able to, because only Marisha can use it and she's out of commission by chapter3, still, wow, Hammerne Rescue makes Rescue so much less valuable and thus so much more fun to use and abuse. I'm guessing this also applies to Shadow Dragon and the reason I just never heard about it is because Shadow Dragon is so ridiculously generous in how many warp staves it gives you and Hammerne comes so late there's little point to using it on a warp staff unless you've LTCed yourself so much you're not even playing the game anymore. Wait! Does Hammerne work on the Again staff? Because two extra uses of the Again Staff, while not nearly as ridiculous as on the SNES, still probably has potential for strats, especially if Lena can use Hammerne in the final chapter. Relevant question for this map, how does Kris's base class influence reclassing? If I make Kris a Pegasus Knight and then reclass away, does that mean the total number of Pegasus Knights I'm allowed to have is n+1 compared to if I made Kris something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 10 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: But what the fuck? Macellan and Dolph deserve so much better. Seriously, that gets me mad. And then you have Cain and Abel who really should've said something together. Hell, the context of Fe12 could've been used to have one of the only Christmas cavs supports that isn't incredibly boring, but no! We just get Caeda and Malicia! Thanks game! At least give something for Roger if you're gonna go the funny no bitches ship direction. Dolph does have one very brief cool moment in his A support, where it's revealed he's gluttonous because he's trying to fortify his body after the experience of being stuck in the cell facetanking arrows for his peers. He even mentions Macellan indirectly there. Macellan's support is awful though, and they don't get one together because of course they don't. If the world's most obvious support, Cain and Abel, isn't a thing, why would theirs be? But not to worry, Malicia got a really good support with Caeda where she just... shows her character gimmick again. Goddammit. 10 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: What about your favorite character Malice? You wish she came in busting through a wall in chapter 12, suplexing a Fire Dragon? Yes. 10 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: I have surgery in a few days. My favorite part of the map. 10 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: Palla is at least a safe powerful flier that isn't difficult to train, but I'm allowed to throw professionalism away whenever I want to say that forcing me to use Palla is a crime in its own worth 5 cons. Ruben, agree with me. I mean, that's already a flaw with the game as it is. Palla is so good and enemies are so competitive that it's very difficult to avoid using her at least a bit in the earlygame before you get your projects going. 10 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: The heroes can potentially spawn with up to 23 speed, meaning that if you wish to bait them out for the purpose of gaining last minute xp before seizing (or distracting them to a given loaction with a strong draco unit, primarily useful in a chapter later on), you would need a unit of at least 20 speed by now. In the best case scenario, the player has a 20+ SPD draco Kris who can chip multiple heroes on enemy phase or even kill some on their own. Otherwise, you will likely need a trained peg unit who can survive at least 1 hit. Even swordmaster Sirius at base can be doubled by a hero if they roll 23 SPD Swordmaster Wendell has 22 speed. You get a levin sword in this map that you can grab before going for the heroes. He has done it again. 10 hours ago, Shaky Jones said: Note that many pros and cons are direct contrasts to each other. You do indeed have to fight the strongest man in the continent. 6 hours ago, Jotari said: Relevant question for this map, how does Kris's base class influence reclassing? If I make Kris a Pegasus Knight and then reclass away, does that mean the total number of Pegasus Knights I'm allowed to have is n+1 compared to if I made Kris something else? Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure there's a class slot for every class from the beginning of the game. So Kris could just slip into the initial slot and stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 54 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure there's a class slot for every class from the beginning of the game. So Kris could just slip into the initial slot and stay there. Yes, the number of reclasses you have available is "Number of units with the base class"+1. So the +1 means you can class change Kris to anything right away, so long as you haven't class changed someone else first. My question is, if the variable class you choose for Kris counts for the "Number of units with the base class". Like, maybe a better example, Etzel is the only Sorcerer in the game. So you can only ever have two dark mages, Etzel+Someone Else Reclassed (or two people reclassed if you reclassed Etzel to something else). However, if you make Kris a Dark Mage by default, can you have three dark mages? Even if Kris moves away from Dark Mage as soon as you have access to reclass. In other words, assuming you have no issues getting through prologue with any given class (not a valid assumption I grant) are there some classes that are better to choose for Kris's default than others because it gives you more general access to that class even if you're not specifically going to use it with Kris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Jones Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 Just Replies: Spoiler 11 hours ago, Jotari said: You forgot to mention the witches. There were witches? Man I don't remember. This is what skipping chapters do to ya, and I don't feel guilty about it in the slightest. 11 hours ago, Jotari said: Etzel also got some extra love in a DLC Map, where he services as your only healer even though he's a prepromote. Is that not the fate of all prepromote magic users? After all, you don't want to waste any valuable xp for the Amelia of the game do you? 12 hours ago, Jotari said: Oi. This map. Before reading what you have to say, I must confess, very mixed feelings. The fleeing thieves with really desirable loot, including something needed for endgame, does give the chapter a distinct feeling of purpose, there is something you need to achieve and efforts need to be done to get them. The drgaon that spawns in the west also gives a legit mini boss more imposing than most actual bosses in the series that ties up half your army. But the chapter is seriously brought down by just how damn hard it is to keep Nabarl and Phina alive with inflated enemy stats. Lowly thieves should not be kicking the ass of someone as cool as Nabarl that hard. Honestly a lot of it feels like a rng fest, like, you absolutely need to get crtiicals on the right attack on the right turn to eliminate the necessary enemy. I think one of the reasons I didn't have any Rescue charges left by Khadein was because I used at least one of them here getting Phina to safely (probably even both charges after Nabarl was pegged by enough arrows). I imagine if you try to beat this chapter with zero rescues, you'll need a crap ton of rng to pull it off, and even then, I don't see it being possible to get every item given just how fast some of those thieves make it to the top. If they wanted to fix the map, while there's a lot wrong with it, the main things that would help would be to reposition Navarre and whichever enemies are particularly close to him so that he isn't immediately killed on turn 1 without some form of rescue (perhaps make it so only 1 thief can hit him, so when Navarre hits, he can be danced and kill before he is struck twice. Some thieves should also be easier to reach, since even though I like fast play, I don't want to feel forced to have OP fliers with turn 1 rescue Feena to stand even a slight chance of getting the angelic robe. While inflated stats are somewhat controversial in FE, and I'm someone who's mixed on it (although possibly leaning in favor of it due to desiring a challenge), I believe it's used just right in FE12 while being complete garbage in FE13 and 3H. Unfortunately, FE12 certainly shares its BS stat inflation moments like some of modern FE when it comes to recruitable units given how said units do not feel designed around higher difficulties. Oftentimes, they're directly taken from their FE3 bases, occasionally trading a stat or 2 (often because of DSFE class bases), and mainly having tweaked growths, but Navarre's stats are more or less exactly the same as B2. In that sense, lunatic is probably what's more designed around the units in the sense that thieves barely don't double him, but what good is that when they're completely surrounded in a remake that isn't trying to have a "look at the edgelord solo the wave" that would make the legend mercenaries proud. 12 hours ago, Jotari said: Hammerne works on staffs....how the hell did I not know that. Live Jotari reaction: 12 hours ago, Jotari said: Wait! Does Hammerne work on the Again staff? Because two extra uses of the Again Staff, while not nearly as ridiculous as on the SNES, still probably has potential for strats, especially if Lena can use Hammerne in the final chapter. Yes this is the average lunatic lategame experience. And yes, Again will be extensively brought up when we get there. 12 hours ago, Jotari said: Relevant question for this map, how does Kris's base class influence reclassing? If I make Kris a Pegasus Knight and then reclass away, does that mean the total number of Pegasus Knights I'm allowed to have is n+1 compared to if I made Kris something else? According to Serenes, Kris's starting class does not impact the class cap in any way. I'm unsure if the game uses his default class of mercenary or if he simply doesn't contribute to it at all. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Dolph does have one very brief cool moment in his A support, where it's revealed he's gluttonous because he's trying to fortify his body after the experience of being stuck in the cell facetanking arrows for his peers. He even mentions Macellan indirectly there It was alright, but after the Funny Footsteps of everything else, the impact was dampened too much. It almost felt like it was thrown in there to have something going on for the A and to be le obligatory FE11/FE1/FE3 B1 reference. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Macellan's support is awful though, and they don't get one together because of course they don't. If the world's most obvious support, Cain and Abel, isn't a thing, why would theirs be? But not to worry, Malicia got a really good support with Caeda where she just... shows her character gimmick again. Ruben, you're a fan of writing. Make your own supports. Me and Jotari can judge it right here. If it's bad, I'm starting a movement to cancel your hack that isn't even out yet. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: My favorite part of the map. You would like that you psycho. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: I mean, that's already a flaw with the game as it is. Palla is so good and enemies are so competitive that it's very difficult to avoid using her at least a bit in the earlygame before you get your projects going. I suppose it's virtually impossible to bench her before chapter 6, and at that point, you might as well keep using her for 7, and then chapter 8 is hard enough to warrant a flier, and then chapter 9 is a desert.... Wow, FE12 bad. Too much Palla bias. The normies win again. I weep. I often bench her by ch10, although there was one or 2 runs I think where I completely stopped using her by chapter 4, and it's certainly harder saving the Sirius squad and plugging the holes with flier Linde. But it's doable. At the very least, many of my sc's and general runs show that I never give her too many kills, so I'm not overfeeding her to be some FE12 carry, mainly relying on bases which I'm hoping allows for a more accurate map balance ranking, as well as ensuring that all the xp goes to mage Matthis. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Swordmaster Wendell has 22 speed. You get a levin sword in this map that you can grab before going for the heroes. He has done it again. Swordmaster Wendell would have 8 defense, so I suppose he would barely survive 1 hit on lunatic. Fuck you Ruben. Now I know what I have to do the next time I replay FE12. Son of a- 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: You do indeed have to fight the strongest man in the continent. Show me a meme funny man. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure there's a class slot for every class from the beginning of the game. So Kris could just slip into the initial slot and stay there. 4 hours ago, Jotari said: Yes, the number of reclasses you have available is "Number of units with the base class"+1. So the +1 means you can class change Kris to anything right away, so long as you haven't class changed someone else first. My question is, if the variable class you choose for Kris counts for the "Number of units with the base class". Like, maybe a better example, Etzel is the only Sorcerer in the game. So you can only ever have two dark mages, Etzel+Someone Else Reclassed (or two people reclassed if you reclassed Etzel to something else). However, if you make Kris a Dark Mage by default, can you have three dark mages? Even if Kris moves away from Dark Mage as soon as you have access to reclass. In other words, assuming you have no issues getting through prologue with any given class (not a valid assumption I grant) are there some classes that are better to choose for Kris's default than others because it gives you more general access to that class even if you're not specifically going to use it with Kris? Ruben you dumb Yeah, I just imagine Kris doesn't provide a class cap and he just fits into whichever free +1 slot you picked for him without adding anything himself. Either way, you can't use Kris to increase the flier cap. We can't go making female avatars valid, now would we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: I imagine if you try to beat this chapter with zero rescues, you'll need a crap ton of rng to pull it off, and even then, I don't see it being possible to get every item given just how fast some of those thieves make it to the top. If they wanted to fix the map, while there's a lot wrong with it, the main things that would help would be to reposition Navarre and whichever enemies are particularly close to him so that he isn't immediately killed on turn 1 without some form of rescue (perhaps make it so only 1 thief can hit him, so when Navarre hits, he can be danced and kill before he is struck twice. Some thieves should also be easier to reach, since even though I like fast play, I don't want to feel forced to have OP fliers with turn 1 rescue Feena to stand even a slight chance of getting the angelic robe. While inflated stats are somewhat controversial in FE, and I'm someone who's mixed on it (although possibly leaning in favor of it due to desiring a challenge), I believe it's used just right in FE12 while being complete garbage in FE13 and 3H. Unfortunately, FE12 certainly shares its BS stat inflation moments like some of modern FE when it comes to recruitable units given how said units do not feel designed around higher difficulties. Oftentimes, they're directly taken from their FE3 bases, occasionally trading a stat or 2 (often because of DSFE class bases), and mainly having tweaked growths, but Navarre's stats are more or less exactly the same as B2. In that sense, lunatic is probably what's more designed around the units in the sense that thieves barely don't double him, but what good is that when they're completely surrounded in a remake that isn't trying to have a "look at the edgelord solo the wave" that would make the legend mercenaries proud. Well since we brought up Tear Ring, two items from that which are awesome that the series never incorporated that would serve well here, Shields (with durability) letting any unit reasonable face tank but not infinitely as it comes as a resource, and guaranteed miracle chance to help keep a character alive. Both would serve well for a surrounded player unit you want to keep alive but don't want to make them able to just dominate everything...alternatively, let Nabarl dominate everything. Like, yeesh he's one of the most popular Archanea characters, at least, allegedly, why his stats so mid? Being better than Samuel isn't a huge achievement. He's meant to be pretty bad ass. Let him be at least as good as Palla. 7 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: According to Serenes, Kris's starting class does not impact the class cap in any way. I'm unsure if the game uses his default class of mercenary or if he simply doesn't contribute to it at all. Considering Mercenary is male exclusive, that is probably not the answer, unless they give you an extra Myrmidon for female Kris instead (or they give you an extra unusable Mercenary, well, not unusable because you can use it. Just not by Kris). The really easy answer would be to load literally any file of New Mystery and count the number of units+the number of reclass options-Marth, Phina, Tiki and Bantu. 11 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said: 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Dolph does have one very brief cool moment in his A support, where it's revealed he's gluttonous because he's trying to fortify his body after the experience of being stuck in the cell facetanking arrows for his peers. He even mentions Macellan indirectly there It was alright, but after the Funny Footsteps of everything else, the impact was dampened too much. It almost felt like it was thrown in there to have something going on for the A and to be le obligatory FE11/FE1/FE3 B1 reference. I don't actually like that support. By referencing the gameplay, it does kind of just highlight how silly that all is. Like, he is literally shielding his allies from arrows. Okay, sounds cool. But, uh, how? Did he have his armour on? Why did they let him leave his armour on? Or was he taken multiple arrows just through his sheer body mass? Why would the enemy really care? They're trying to kill him too. Were the enemies shooting through walls like in Shadow Dragon? There was also a made there too, was he shielding them from fire balls too? It's all fine for gameplay and it's fun how they reference something in gameplay that is only likely and not certainly the player's strategy, but still, it just something best left on the segregated side of gameply story integration. In the manga this scene occurs where the Archanean Knights are all lined up against a wall about to be executed firing squad style until Jeorge shows up at the last second shooting the archers right when the commander says fire. And then Minerva shows up cause it all happens in a courtyard and it's just pretty great overall as it's a small moment in the most intense part of the overall manga. That's how I like to imaging it going down in terms of story, so referencing the gameplay so directly and making me imagine moving my units left and right so the archer and mage need to walk around to attack into a room full of unarmed prisoners as something that actually happened just has the moment fall flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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