Challenge Run Ideas - Thoughts?

[LyreOP]

Well well well it's that time again...

I'm booting up radiant dawn. I've played all difficulties and have played for a long time as my posting history would suggest. 

What challenge runs should I consider to keep the game fresh? Previously did only laguz (Lyre OP), only cav, only DB etc. 

I've modded before and would consider doing it again if I'm guided through it. 

Leave a comment, I'll keep things updated. I'm just excited to get back into my fav game 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Take the current sum of a units stats and randomize them every map.

[AzureEmperor]

I like doing what I call a "Scavenger Run" where you aren't allowed to buy items/weapons, I also don't use the forge personally but that's just me. In this run you can only use weapons you get from drops, steals, villages, or recruits also having Volke open a chest is banned too since that costs you gold every time, although admittedly that doesn't really factor into RD like it does PoR 

Edited April 24 by AzureEmperor
Forgot to mention villages are legal

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Here's an idea - a Fatigue run! Borrowing the concept of "Fatigue" from Thracia 776.

The idea is, every battle a unit gets into (both PP and EP) will increase their "Fatigue" by 1. This also applies to commands they use, such as "Shove", "Staff", and "Rescue" - but not "Wait" or "Talk". After the battle, they carry Fatigue over into the next map.

What's the penalty for Fatigue? Well, if it exceeds the unit's HP stat, then they cannot be deployed in the next chapter. For the chapter thereafter, however, their Fatigue resets to 0. Fatigue also resets to 0 if their is a "break" between maps, like I-8 to I-E, or II-E to III-9. The exception is forced deploys - while they will still accrue Fatigue, if they can't be benched, then they can't be benched. You can use them until they become bench-able.

[LyreOP]

7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's an idea - a Fatigue run! Borrowing the concept of "Fatigue" from Thracia 776.

I quite like this idea!!! I'm not sure how I could make it work for the dawn brigade, or part 2 though really. By part 3 I have enough units that I could cycle them in and out without a problem though...

[Uscari]

You could do an ironman run where you never reload a save, or even a "super ironman" run, where you restart the playthrough if you lose/fail to recruit any unit.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, LyreOP said:

I quite like this idea!!! I'm not sure how I could make it work for the dawn brigade, or part 2 though really. By part 3 I have enough units that I could cycle them in and out without a problem though...

I could see it as an issue in Part I, especially starting in I-4, when the forced deploys become... undeployable. For Part II, though, I don't think it should really matter. Nephenee and Brom are forced deploys in II-2, as are the Crimean Royal Knights in II-E. Otherwise, there are no units with back-to-back chapter appearances.

One more thought - since there are no "back-to-back" chapters in Part IV, pre-Tower, the Fatigue condition becomes trivial there. It's up to the player whether they want to give themselves that leeway, or else treat, say, IV-P and IV-3 as "back-to-back". Of course, all this challenge is self-imposed, one way or another.

And thanks! It feels like the kind of self-constraint that can work in amy FE game. Honestly, I'm thinking of doing it myself...

[lenticular]

When you pick your units for the tower, you must pick your 10 lowest level units.

The intent here being to turn it into a "use everyone" sort of run, since if your lowest level units are completely untrained, then they aren't going to help in the Tower. But at the same time, having only the single point where the rule is enforced allows you more flexibility in how you approach things, and exactly when, where and how you decide to train everyone up.

(And yes, there are obvious cheese strats that you could do here, either by deliberately getting a bunch of bad units killed or by low-manning 4-E with the handful of compulsory units, but I think we all know better than to play self-imposed challenges in ways that remove both the challenge and the fun.)

[LyreOP]

7 hours ago, lenticular said:

When you pick your units for the tower, you must pick your 10 lowest level units.

See I love this idea in theory, but the reality of playing the tower with lyre mist meg etc. makes my toes curl. I do think there's something to this though, and if I do the run with this in mind I can ensure an even enough exp distribution to rig the tower. I guess I'd want units with very good bases in that case... 

Straight away I'm thinking "How can I level everyone higher than Elincia and Titania" lmao but the reality of getting EVERY unit to 3rd tier is daunting. 

This sort of EXP distribution also serves as a sort of "canon" playthrough. I always found it weird that level 1 fiona doesnt get turned to stone, and this would be a good explanation as to why. 

Edited April 26 by LyreOP

[AnonymousSpeed]

Long ago in a distant land, I read a challenge run idea for FE10 where you only use unit with green hair. I think this is technically feasible once you get Sothe, although you do have to ship some extra weapons to Nephenee through Nealuchi or something (her starting lances don't have enough uses for her to kill everything she needs in the time before shops). I'm not sure how practically feasible this is or whether or not its actually interesting, since you're mostly picking a couple characters to solo the map with until endgame.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 4/25/2024 at 5:13 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's an idea - a Fatigue run! Borrowing the concept of "Fatigue" from Thracia 776.

The idea is, every battle a unit gets into (both PP and EP) will increase their "Fatigue" by 1. This also applies to commands they use, such as "Shove", "Staff", and "Rescue" - but not "Wait" or "Talk". After the battle, they carry Fatigue over into the next map.

What's the penalty for Fatigue? Well, if it exceeds the unit's HP stat, then they cannot be deployed in the next chapter. For the chapter thereafter, however, their Fatigue resets to 0. Fatigue also resets to 0 if their is a "break" between maps, like I-8 to I-E, or II-E to III-9. The exception is forced deploys - while they will still accrue Fatigue, if they can't be benched, then they can't be benched. You can use them until they become bench-able.

I think fatigue is a cool concept but I do think it'd be a bit annoying to count this by hand. Do you sit there with a notepad or laptop nearby putting a tickmark for every combat you get into? I guess you could, but it's a lot of bookkeeping. You could probably also estimate it just by assigning a certain number for each battle (say, 15) and increase everyone's fatigue by that. Or you could go super simple, forget HP, and just say "if you're deployed in 2 consecutive fights, you get fatigued for the next" (replace 2 with another number if you prefer... even 1 if you're feeling spicy).

One change I would make is that I definitely would not consider break fights. IMO 3-8 and 3-10 are absolutely consecutive, as are 1-8 and 1-E. And yeah I'd definitely want fatigue to affect part 4. I think I would only reset fatigue in the manner you describe at the end of Part 1 and again at the end of Part 2, since those are implied to be significant time gaps.

On 4/25/2024 at 8:10 PM, lenticular said:

When you pick your units for the tower, you must pick your 10 lowest level units.

The intent here being to turn it into a "use everyone" sort of run, since if your lowest level units are completely untrained, then they aren't going to help in the Tower. But at the same time, having only the single point where the rule is enforced allows you more flexibility in how you approach things, and exactly when, where and how you decide to train everyone up.

(And yes, there are obvious cheese strats that you could do here, either by deliberately getting a bunch of bad units killed or by low-manning 4-E with the handful of compulsory units, but I think we all know better than to play self-imposed challenges in ways that remove both the challenge and the fun.)

This is neat! I like the flexibility that's built in. I can see part 4 being really entertaining as you try to set up where your 10 lowest-levelled people are actually at least mildly competent.

I've done lowest-level-only runs of games and I usually try to build in some rule along the lines of "don't let the permanently forced deploy get overlevelled" and would recommend doing so here, but your last paragraph basically covers that.

Edited April 28 by Dark Holy Elf

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I think fatigue is a cool concept but I do think it'd be a bit annoying to count this by hand. Do you sit there with a notepad or laptop nearby putting a tickmark for every combat you get into? I guess you could, but it's a lot of bookkeeping. You could probably also estimate it just by assigning a certain number for each battle (say, 15) and increase everyone's fatigue by that. Or you could go super simple, forget HP, and just say "if you're deployed in 2 consecutive fights, you get fatigued for the next" (replace 2 with another number if you prefer... even 1 if you're feeling spicy).

One change I would make is that I definitely would not consider break fights. IMO 3-8 and 3-10 are absolutely consecutive, as are 1-8 and 1-E. And yeah I'd definitely want fatigue to affect part 4. I think I would only reset fatigue in the manner you describe at the end of Part 1 and again at the end of Part 2, since those are implied to be significant time gaps.

Yeah, that's all fair. Logistically speaking, I do think how much time passes between maps is variable for each pause. Like, there's probably not much between I-8 and I-E, or III-5 and III-7. Likewise for the Part IV maps. But what about II-P and II-E, which would affect Elincia? ...Except, she's a forced deploy, so not really.

Good point on the amount of work it takes. Easier option - just base Fatigue on turn count. So, if you finish I-1 in 8 turns, then Micky, Leo, Ed, and Chuck all gain 8 Fatigue. Maybe also throw in an exception where, if a unit literally sits there and does nothing the whole map, then they're functionally "benched", and reset Fatigue for the next map.

On 4/25/2024 at 11:10 PM, lenticular said:

And yes, there are obvious cheese strats that you could do here, either by deliberately getting a bunch of bad units killed

So, a normal playthrough of Shadow Dragon, then?

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:08 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Good point on the amount of work it takes. Easier option - just base Fatigue on turn count. So, if you finish I-1 in 8 turns, then Micky, Leo, Ed, and Chuck all gain 8 Fatigue. Maybe also throw in an exception where, if a unit literally sits there and does nothing the whole map, then they're functionally "benched", and reset Fatigue for the next map.

Ooh, that's a good and simple idea that also rewards fast playtimes, I like it. I might suggest assigning +2 fatigue per turn instead of +1, but once again you can set the numbers wherever you'd like to get the desired feel. I might even be tempted to go higher than +2 later, just because Radiant Dawn HP scores get so high.

[LyreOP]

Just to update: I decided on a "bring your 10 lowest level units into the tower" run. Seemed the most fun and creative way to change my playstyle of the game. I can definetly recommend it as constantly playing with lower level units, as well as seeing the entire cast keeps the playthrough refreshing. 

It also forces you to use all the "growth" units in the game which tbh are my guilty pleasure. Mist, Lyre Fiona etc. 

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!